Originally by: Garia666

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well if RL money is being traded Ingame as an item. the tax man will probably be intrested

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Originally by: Garia666

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well if RL money is being traded Ingame as an item. the tax man will probably be intrested

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Originally by: Polo Ex

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I just read the blog, good idea but the only problem is that you didnt mention if we can still activate it anywhere. If thats the case then no one will bother to move it unless they were stupid and created it in a system no where near a market hub.

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Quote:

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At the same time we're changing the behaviour of the Redeeming system a bit so that items can be redeemed in any station (you could only redeem items in NPC stations before).

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Originally by: CCP Fallout

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ò We will remove the restriction on undocking from a station with a PLEX in your cargo hold

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Originally by: CCP Fallout

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ò We will remove the restriction that items (including PLEX) can only be reverse-redeemed from NPC stations

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Originally by: Polo Ex

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I just read the blog, good idea but the only problem is that you didnt mention if we can still activate it anywhere.

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Originally by: Dacil Arandur

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I honestly can't wait to read people threatening to sue, or press charges when their "real money" was "stolen." It WILL happen.

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Quote:

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Are you crazy? Do you know how many people will emoragequit when they're ganked with PLEX in their cargo?

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Quote:

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Well, really, we don't like items having "special status" in the game.

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Originally by: ShadowandLight

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Since im assuming 90% of all PLEX redemption goes on in Jita / Amarr / Rens why do i not think this is going to effect much of anything.

Also, maybe CCP wants to see plex's go up in price?

The only thing in EVE that wont go down is the price in $ per month... haha

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Originally by: devblog

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perception that PLEX is a more valuable item than others in the game

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Originally by: James Vayne

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Does this mean that you, dear CCP, could introduce the functionality of a PLEX as a loot drop on some level 5 missions and sleepers?
I think that, if completely randomly dropped as loot on missions, lots of people would become extremely interested in doing missions.

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Originally by: CCP Fallout

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Changes are coming to PLEX. What are they? Read CCP Zulupark's blog to find out.

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL.

Originally by: Lobster Man

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Originally by: James Vayne

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Does this mean that you, dear CCP, could introduce the functionality of a PLEX as a loot drop on some level 5 missions and sleepers?
I think that, if completely randomly dropped as loot on missions, lots of people would become extremely interested in doing missions.

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Make them only drop on missions in lowsec, and make the chance of a PLEX drop even higher if you already have a PLEX in your cargohold

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Originally by: Quetazal

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I am so against this move its unreal.

A destroyed plex is bad for the players - but to CCP it is a free 15$

I can see the business logic here (greed); playerA gets a plex destroyed, playerA replaces it and uses too; so they have (indirectly) paid CCP 30$ instead of the 15$ for one month Sub.

If Plexes could not get destroyed upon drop I would be all for this btw.

Greedy and a needless change from our overseers imo.

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Originally by: Quetazal

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I am so against this move its unreal.

A destroyed plex is bad for the players - but to CCP it is a free 15$

I can see the business logic here (greed); playerA gets a plex destroyed, playerA replaces it and uses too; so they have (indirectly) paid CCP 30$ instead of the 15$ for one month Sub.

If Plexes could not get destroyed upon drop I would be all for this btw.

Greedy and a needless change from our overseers imo.

---

Originally by: Quetazal

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I am so against this move its unreal.

A destroyed plex is bad for the players - but to CCP it is a free 15$

I can see the business logic here (greed); playerA gets a plex destroyed, playerA replaces it and uses too; so they have (indirectly) paid CCP 30$ instead of the 15$ for one month Sub.

If Plexes could not get destroyed upon drop I would be all for this btw.

Greedy and a needless change from our overseers imo.

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Originally by: Jagga Spikes

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Originally by: Quetazal

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I am so against this move its unreal.

A destroyed plex is bad for the players - but to CCP it is a free 15$

I can see the business logic here (greed); playerA gets a plex destroyed, playerA replaces it and uses too; so they have (indirectly) paid CCP 30$ instead of the 15$ for one month Sub.

If Plexes could not get destroyed upon drop I would be all for this btw.

Greedy and a needless change from our overseers imo.

---

your point? PLEX is 300 mil. it's 2-3 fitted battleships. less than T3 cruiser. less than faction BS. fraction of capitals. people are losing these all the time.

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Originally by: Quetazal

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I am so against this move its unreal.

A destroyed plex is bad for the players - but to CCP it is a free 15$

I can see the business logic here (greed); playerA gets a plex destroyed, playerA replaces it and uses too; so they have (indirectly) paid CCP 30$ instead of the 15$ for one month Sub.

If Plexes could not get destroyed upon drop I would be all for this btw.

Greedy and a needless change from our overseers imo.

---

Originally by: Salpad

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I agree with the other who have questioned the need for undocking with PLEXes at all.

If CCP wants people to fly around with PLEXes, then they should change the system further so that ETCs can only be converted to PLEXes at some stations and these PLEXes only converted to extra game-time at some other stations, so that every PLEX has to be moved. Preferably through at least one stargate, i.e. so that no solar system can contain a station with a ETC Converter and a PLEX converter.

If such a change is not implemented, then why would anyone ever undock?

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Originally by: Zeke Mobius

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I swear the catholic church was faster at admitting the earth was round than CCP at fixing stuff.

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Originally by: Salpad

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I agree with the other who have questioned the need for undocking with PLEXes at all.

If CCP wants people to fly around with PLEXes, then they should change the system further so that ETCs can only be converted to PLEXes at some stations and these PLEXes only converted to extra game-time at some other stations, so that every PLEX has to be moved. Preferably through at least one stargate, i.e. so that no solar system can contain a station with a ETC Converter and a PLEX converter.

If such a change is not implemented, then why would anyone ever undock?

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Originally by: Matalino

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...

PS: Destroyed PLEX = free money for CCP. Makes good business sense as well as game balance sense.

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Originally by: Salpad

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I agree with the other who have questioned the need for undocking with PLEXes at all.

If CCP wants people to fly around with PLEXes, then they should change the system further so that ETCs can only be converted to PLEXes at some stations and these PLEXes only converted to extra game-time at some other stations, so that every PLEX has to be moved. Preferably through at least one stargate, i.e. so that no solar system can contain a station with a ETC Converter and a PLEX converter.

If such a change is not implemented, then why would anyone ever undock?

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Originally by: James Vayne

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Originally by: Salpad

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I agree with the other who have questioned the need for undocking with PLEXes at all.

If CCP wants people to fly around with PLEXes, then they should change the system further so that ETCs can only be converted to PLEXes at some stations and these PLEXes only converted to extra game-time at some other stations, so that every PLEX has to be moved. Preferably through at least one stargate, i.e. so that no solar system can contain a station with a ETC Converter and a PLEX converter.

If such a change is not implemented, then why would anyone ever undock?

---

Actually I ran into the need to do it the other day, funnily enough. I had decided to move all of my stuff to a system that wasn't 17 jumps from Jita (where I go often) and needed to move all my ships/stuff there. Of course, I can't take my PLEX with me cause I can't move it, so it remains X amount of jumps away where I purchased it.

Also, people who move corps may choose to move all of their stuff to the new HQ station of their new corp. If this is, say, 28 jumps away, it's a pain in the butt to go all the way back just to redeem your PLEX (where buying another PLEX would be more stupid than simply being able to move your existing one).

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Originally by: Amerilia

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Noone else noticing that CCP is simply greedy?
30 Days of playtime can be destroyed, CCP gets the money and noone gets the playtime

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Originally by: Kimsemus

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Edited by: Kimsemus on 09/07/2010 16:28:09
Edited by: Kimsemus on 09/07/2010 16:27:22

Originally by: James Vayne

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Originally by: Salpad

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I agree with the other who have questioned the need for undocking with PLEXes at all.

If CCP wants people to fly around with PLEXes, then they should change the system further so that ETCs can only be converted to PLEXes at some stations and these PLEXes only converted to extra game-time at some other stations, so that every PLEX has to be moved. Preferably through at least one stargate, i.e. so that no solar system can contain a station with a ETC Converter and a PLEX converter.

If such a change is not implemented, then why would anyone ever undock?

---

Actually I ran into the need to do it the other day, funnily enough. I had decided to move all of my stuff to a system that wasn't 17 jumps from Jita (where I go often) and needed to move all my ships/stuff there. Of course, I can't take my PLEX with me cause I can't move it, so it remains X amount of jumps away where I purchased it.

Also, people who move corps may choose to move all of their stuff to the new HQ station of their new corp. If this is, say, 28 jumps away, it's a pain in the butt to go all the way back just to redeem your PLEX (where buying another PLEX would be more stupid than simply being able to move your existing one).

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Right click the PLEX from your assets tab, while you are 17 jumps away from it. Hit Redeem. Congratulations on your additional 30 days of game time. Your argument is invalid.

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Originally by: Slide Quetor

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My point?

Plex value is also = 30 days, in 30days you can earn back that battle ship, cruiser or whatever.

Now if your wallet's empty for whatever reason and your only plex is destroyed you will need to buy back those 30days via RL cash (which CCP is grateful for). Not such a easy hit for those who are between jobs or cannot easily replace it.

The line is getting blurred here, many many players have said they would quit if RMT was introduced, this has maybe just crossed that line.

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Originally by: James Vayne

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Originally by: Kimsemus

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...
Right click the PLEX from your assets tab, while you are 17 jumps away from it. Hit Redeem. Congratulations on your additional 30 days of game time. Your argument is invalid.

---

Incorrect. I don't redeem my PLEX. I'm a subscriber and buy PLEX to sell for ISK (saves on the monotony of mining/missioning). I don't, however, sell the full 60 days, sell 30 days first and 30 days later (there is logic to this I can't be bothered to explain). Ergo, my argument remains.

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Originally by: Amerilia

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Noone else noticing that CCP is simply greedy?
30 Days of playtime can be destroyed, CCP gets the money and noone gets the playtime

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Originally by: Dezolf

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Although, if they're still usable from any distance, it's really not much of a change..

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Originally by: Polo Ex

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I just read the blog, good idea but the only problem is that you didnt mention if we can still activate it anywhere. If thats the case then no one will bother to move it unless they were stupid and created it in a system no where near a market hub.

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Originally by: Larkonis Trassler

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Destroying a PLEX through a gank is no different from destroying 300 mil's worth of goods in a similar fashion. Really it's not. You may have paid for the PLEX with RL monies but once it's in game it's just the same as any other item.

Also, nobody is forcing you to undock with PLEXs in your hold.

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Originally by: Minchurra

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Quote:

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At the same time we're changing the behaviour of the Redeeming system a bit so that items can be redeemed in any station (you could only redeem items in NPC stations before).

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From the wording I assume this means we can redeem any item at Outposts/Conquerable stations (eg. "gift ships"), and not just plex, correct?

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Originally by: TimT7

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Originally by: Larkonis Trassler

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Destroying a PLEX through a gank is no different from destroying 300 mil's worth of goods in a similar fashion. Really it's not. You may have paid for the PLEX with RL monies but once it's in game it's just the same as any other item.

Also, nobody is forcing you to undock with PLEXs in your hold.

---

This is where people go wrong. No-one paid CCP for lossed titan. No-one paid CCP for lossed Jump Freighter. No-one paid CCP for lossed faction BS. Someone paid CCP for that lossed PLEX (15euros).

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Originally by: Matalino

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...

PS: Destroyed PLEX = free money for CCP. Makes good business sense as well as game balance sense.

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Originally by: Dora Lorien

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And just what, pray tell, would be the utility of this feature?

CCP doesn't care if you undock with a plex or not. All they care about is removing the special processing rules for the item. PLEX can now be moved just like any other in-game item. The only reason I can see for someone moving PLEX is a trader trying to take advantage of a good margin opportunity. The average CONSUMER of PLEX has no reason whatsoever to remove them from a station.

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Originally by: TimT7

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Originally by: Larkonis Trassler

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Destroying a PLEX through a gank is no different from destroying 300 mil's worth of goods in a similar fashion. Really it's not. You may have paid for the PLEX with RL monies but once it's in game it's just the same as any other item.

Also, nobody is forcing you to undock with PLEXs in your hold.

---

This is where people go wrong. No-one paid CCP for lossed titan. No-one paid CCP for lossed Jump Freighter. No-one paid CCP for lossed faction BS. Someone paid CCP for that lossed PLEX (15euros).

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Originally by: TimT7

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Originally by: Larkonis Trassler

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Destroying a PLEX through a gank is no different from destroying 300 mil's worth of goods in a similar fashion. Really it's not. You may have paid for the PLEX with RL monies but once it's in game it's just the same as any other item.

Also, nobody is forcing you to undock with PLEXs in your hold.

---

This is where people go wrong. No-one paid CCP for lossed titan. No-one paid CCP for lossed Jump Freighter. No-one paid CCP for lossed faction BS. Someone paid CCP for that lossed PLEX (15euros).

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Originally by: Clb

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So can I undock from Jita 4-4 in a Badger with a PLEX in my cargo and then apply it as soon as an Apoc locks me? Or can it only be applied in the station?

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Originally by: Callic Veratar

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As long as there's a little warning that pops up that says:

"You're undocking with a plex, you're risking losing it by undocking with it."

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Originally by: Kimsemus

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Originally by: TimT7

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Originally by: Larkonis Trassler

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Destroying a PLEX through a gank is no different from destroying 300 mil's worth of goods in a similar fashion. Really it's not. You may have paid for the PLEX with RL monies but once it's in game it's just the same as any other item.

Also, nobody is forcing you to undock with PLEXs in your hold.

---

This is where people go wrong. No-one paid CCP for lossed titan. No-one paid CCP for lossed Jump Freighter. No-one paid CCP for lossed faction BS. Someone paid CCP for that lossed PLEX (15euros).

---

So what. That person also took the risk of undocking with it to further increase profit on their investment. Once you convert GTC to PLEX they are like ANY other in game item now. Just like someone could go and sell GTC and PLEX to buy a Caldari navy raven or anything else they wanted and lose it that way too. You're operating on the logical farse, and just attaching intrinsic value to the PLEX it doesn't have. It's no different than any other item. And again, I think this bears repeating:

THE MECHANICS OF THE PLEX MAKE YOU ABLE TO USE THE PLEX YOURSELF NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE WITHOUT EVER UNDOCKING WITH IT IN YOUR HOLD. YOU ARE ONLY INCURRING RISK WHEN YOU DECIDE TO MOVE IT TO INCREASE YOUR OWN PROFIT OFF IT.

Risk vs reward is all EVE ever is. If you don't like that, go play another game.

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Originally by: TimT7

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Originally by: Kimsemus

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Originally by: TimT7

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Originally by: Larkonis Trassler

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Destroying a PLEX through a gank is no different from destroying 300 mil's worth of goods in a similar fashion. Really it's not. You may have paid for the PLEX with RL monies but once it's in game it's just the same as any other item.

Also, nobody is forcing you to undock with PLEXs in your hold.

---

This is where people go wrong. No-one paid CCP for lossed titan. No-one paid CCP for lossed Jump Freighter. No-one paid CCP for lossed faction BS. Someone paid CCP for that lossed PLEX (15euros).

---

So what. That person also took the risk of undocking with it to further increase profit on their investment. Once you convert GTC to PLEX they are like ANY other in game item now. Just like someone could go and sell GTC and PLEX to buy a Caldari navy raven or anything else they wanted and lose it that way too. You're operating on the logical farse, and just attaching intrinsic value to the PLEX it doesn't have. It's no different than any other item. And again, I think this bears repeating:

THE MECHANICS OF THE PLEX MAKE YOU ABLE TO USE THE PLEX YOURSELF NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE WITHOUT EVER UNDOCKING WITH IT IN YOUR HOLD. YOU ARE ONLY INCURRING RISK WHEN YOU DECIDE TO MOVE IT TO INCREASE YOUR OWN PROFIT OFF IT.

Risk vs reward is all EVE ever is. If you don't like that, go play another game.

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As the supply of PLEX will diminish while the quantity demanded will remain the same the price of PLEX will go up. PLEX will cost more isk in the future because some of them gets destroyed. If you pay your gametime with isk you will lose due to this change. If you pay your gametime with real money and if you buy isk with real money you will get more isk in the future due to this change. This won't affect my play in anyway as I'm not gonna undock with plex.

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Originally by: Angel HUN

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How big are the PLEX in m3?

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Originally by: CCP Explorer

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Originally by: Angel HUN

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How big are the PLEX in m3?

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0.01 m3.

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Originally by: Kimsemus

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Wrong again. You're just arbitrarily assuming the cost will go up. You're also assuming one hundred morons undocking with 5000 PLEX in their holds and then immediately are going to get ganked or die with them. How is this going to affect supply? If anything supply is going to go UP since you can now redeem them in Outposts (Thank god). PLEX won't cost more ISK because they will be destroyed, they will probably cost much less because they can be moved around and suddenly other markets will open up and compete with Jita. More people will buy and use them as they will be more widely available everywhere.

Don't be ridiculous. This is a good change all around. At the end of the day CCP may be the winner if an unredeemed PLEX gets destroyed, but if you think some Ronald Reagan-esque voodoo economic ripple is going to take effect and impact the market from someone losing a badger with a couple of PLEX in his/her hold you need to see a doctor.

The entire blog can be boiled down to one sentence: PLEX is now a trade commodity. Just like Coolant or Robotic Parts. (Which like any other item can be bought with GTC or PLEX selling. Anything in EVE can be bought with real money. Just. Like. PLEX).

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Originally by: CopyCatz

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I sure hope this is legal in all the subscribers home countries.. If I buy a subscription to a magazine, and the paperboy gets podded along the way, I still have the right to receive the copy I paid for. Since when would an online game allow people's subscriptions to be stolen... If anything some annoying US lawyer could have a field day with this

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Originally by: TimT7

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It's fun how CCP thinks their subscribers are all morons who don't see the real logic behind this change. This is just plain greedy from CCP and that's the bottom line reason why I don't like the change. I can totally understand the change from CCP's point of view, I would like the free money too without having to provide anything (game content) in return.

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Originally by: CopyCatz

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Originally by: TimT7

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It's fun how CCP thinks their subscribers are all morons who don't see the real logic behind this change. This is just plain greedy from CCP and that's the bottom line reason why I don't like the change. I can totally understand the change from CCP's point of view, I would like the free money too without having to provide anything (game content) in return.

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Greed it is. But could it be illegal this time :) /me grabs popcorn

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Originally by: CopyCatz

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Originally by: TimT7

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It's fun how CCP thinks their subscribers are all morons who don't see the real logic behind this change. This is just plain greedy from CCP and that's the bottom line reason why I don't like the change. I can totally understand the change from CCP's point of view, I would like the free money too without having to provide anything (game content) in return.

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Greed it is. But could it be illegal this time :) /me grabs popcorn

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Originally by: Larkonis Trassler

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Wow. You're dumb.

Once the PLEX has been redeemed in game it is in your posession. If your paper gets stolen from you after you've taken delivery of it then you don't have the right to demand another copy from the publisher.

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Originally by: CopyCatz

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Originally by: Larkonis Trassler

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Wow. You're dumb.

Once the PLEX has been redeemed in game it is in your posession. If your paper gets stolen from you after you've taken delivery of it then you don't have the right to demand another copy from the publisher.

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The purpose of a plex is not the item itself but the month of gametime it stands for. You're not buying an icon you know... Essentially you're buying game time in advance, and this is basically CCP saying damned if we care if you can't apply it.

I know this game is supposed to be all about griefing, but when real money gets involved, real life can get involved too.

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Originally by: Sangeli

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Please be nice to me I donated blood

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Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk

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good change i guess, doesn't really make any difference tho

what's really needed is the ability to apply plexes to other characters/accounts so you can activate other accounts without having to buy a forum GTC

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Originally by: Sangeli

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Please be nice to me I donated blood

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Originally by: CCP Zulupark

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Ok, so here's where things stand:

Currently over the past months the devs have been busy working on Apocrypha and so far there hasn't been a lot of revisiting old systems or rebalancing. However those things (especially local in 0.0 and black-ops) are very high on the priority list post-release.

So things are happening, just not as fast as everyone would have wanted. It's hard to balance the development of new features against iterating on old ones. We most definitely want to take some time after release and examine a lot of gameplay and re-evaluate it.

Hope that answers your questions.

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Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk

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good change i guess, doesn't really make any difference tho

what's really needed is the ability to apply plexes to other characters/accounts so you can activate other accounts without having to buy a forum GTC

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Originally by: Larkonis Trassler

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The vast majority of people who buy PLEXs do so for resale (protip: subscriptions are generally much more efficient RL money wise than PLEXs).

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Originally by: Sangeli

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Please be nice to me I donated blood

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Originally by: Tchell Dahhn

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You win, and thank you.

Originally by: AdZc

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Originally by: Larkonis Trassler

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The vast majority of people who buy PLEXs do so for resale (protip: subscriptions are generally much more efficient RL money wise than PLEXs).

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How so? I cant afford 2 account subscriptions....so i make isk in game and pay for it?

End of month u out of pocket - Ç30 or so
Me - nothing!

I love the fact that eve allows this.

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Originally by: Larkonis Trassler

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Originally by: AdZc

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Originally by: Larkonis Trassler

---

The vast majority of people who buy PLEXs do so for resale (protip: subscriptions are generally much more efficient RL money wise than PLEXs).

---

How so? I cant afford 2 account subscriptions....so i make isk in game and pay for it?

End of month u out of pocket - Ç30 or so
Me - nothing!

I love the fact that eve allows this.

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I was implying that buying PLEX to apply to your own account with RL money isn't as cost effective as directly subscribing.

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Originally by: Sangeli

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Please be nice to me I donated blood

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Originally by: Georgiy Giggle

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It's epic fail!

If you want to make able to redeem plex into\from player\s tation, just DO THAT!
It's realy not necessary to make PLEXes be able to haul by ships in space.

Sure it's realy good for CCP.
Example: player bought PLEX, undocked, lost ship, PLEX destroyed.
Then he is going to buy new one.
CCP earned more money.
Realy good system to make your wallets bigger, CCP!

So, i absolutely disagree.

E P I C F A I L !

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Originally by: Tchell Dahhn

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You win, and thank you.

Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o

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Edited by: 0oO0oOoOo0o on 09/07/2010 18:10:17...
CCP, can you make a change that really matters ? Can you give us the option to buy an attribute remap timer reset for 1 plex, so that we don't have to wait a whole year ? I bet this way you'd "remove" much more plexes from the game than in potential destructions while being in the cargo of a ganked ship.

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Originally by: Elgaris Dukor

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Hello CCP,

Im not sure this is a good change (well mabe for you. I explain later). While you can compare the value of a PLEX to other ingame items they are still not the same.
PLEX are nothing more than kondensed game time. This makes them special towards every other item. If 300m ship explodes its gone but there is no effect outside of the game. If a PLEX gets destroyed 30 days of gametime vanish that have to be bought again! This makes you effectively 15Ç for every PLEX that gets destroyed.

I do not appreciate this changes, because it is a machanic that lets players consume more gametime without acctually getting more gametime.

Elgaris

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Originally by: Zarch AlDain

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Originally by: Elgaris Dukor

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Hello CCP,

Im not sure this is a good change (well mabe for you. I explain later). While you can compare the value of a PLEX to other ingame items they are still not the same.
PLEX are nothing more than kondensed game time. This makes them special towards every other item. If 300m ship explodes its gone but there is no effect outside of the game. If a PLEX gets destroyed 30 days of gametime vanish that have to be bought again! This makes you effectively 15Ç for every PLEX that gets destroyed.

I do not appreciate this changes, because it is a machanic that lets players consume more gametime without acctually getting more gametime.

Elgaris

---

They are the same. Isk in game can be converted to any other item including plexes. Any loss of isk equivelant to the cost of a plex is identical as you need to earn the same amount of isk to replace it.

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Originally by: Elgaris Dukor

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No you you cant convert isk to a PLEX. Thats a major misconception. You can trade isk for PLEX and vice versa but you cant convert it into each other. If you buy a PLEX for isk somebody else did buy a GTC and did convert that GTC into PLEX.

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Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o

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Hardly anyone will transport a plex in a ship that is not 100% safe from ganks, there is no point for the pirates to yarr so loud in this thread.

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Originally by: Polo Ex

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the only problem is that you didnt mention if we can still activate it anywhere. If thats the case then no one will bother to move it

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Originally by: ArchenTheGreat

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Originally by: Elgaris Dukor

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No you you cant convert isk to a PLEX. Thats a major misconception. You can trade isk for PLEX and vice versa but you cant convert it into each other. If you buy a PLEX for isk somebody else did buy a GTC and did convert that GTC into PLEX.

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True, but from your point of view you just bought game time with your ISK. That ISK came from missioning or mining or you just sold your officer item. PLEX is no different from any other game item or pure ISK as long as there is someone supplying them. And I am sure you will always find someone with too much $$$ and not enough ISK - so no worriesm there will always be some PLEX on market.

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Originally by: Flesh Slurper

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This is a good change.

In reality a plex is no different than any 300 mil ish item, so transport it with the same care you would move any other valuable cargo. You also can keep it in the station if you want and not move it.. the choice is yours.

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Quote:

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Maybe we're a little crazy, yes, but we truly think the benefits outweigh the risks here. One of them is to combat the perception that PLEX is a more valuable item than others in the game which, of course, it isn't (anyone who has lost a titan/carrier/T2 BS/etc knows this full well).
...
Well, really, we don't like items having "special status" in the game.

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Originally by: iudex

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Is that perception, which you like to combat, really that wrong ? The PLEX actually does have a special status:
If someone destroys a titan/carrier/T2 BS/etc this is no diffrence for you, the CCP.
If however someone destroys a PLEX, you don't have to grant someone 30 days of subscription time, while you had to do this before the deletion of the PLEX. In the end you got ~15$ for free and with no obligation, if a PLEX disappears in a ship destruction process. IMHO that's a substantial diffrence compared to other items for you, the CCP.

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Originally by: Elgaris Dukor

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And it does not matter if you did pay that money or someone else. Its money that goes directly to CCP.
Elgaris.

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Originally by: Flesh Slurper

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Originally by: iudex

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Is that perception, which you like to combat, really that wrong ? The PLEX actually does have a special status:
If someone destroys a titan/carrier/T2 BS/etc this is no diffrence for you, the CCP.
If however someone destroys a PLEX, you don't have to grant someone 30 days of subscription time, while you had to do this before the deletion of the PLEX. In the end you got ~15$ for free and with no obligation, if a PLEX disappears in a ship destruction process. IMHO that's a substantial diffrence compared to other items for you, the CCP.

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I disagree, All things in the game ultimately come from someone's time, which translates to game play purchased. So even if someone didn't buy the titan BPO with their own RL $, they still took a lot of people's time to get it, which translates to rl cash.

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Originally by: Larkonis Trassler

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The vast majority of people who buy PLEXs do so for resale (protip: subscriptions are generally much more efficient RL money wise than PLEXs).

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Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o

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CCP, can you make a change that really matters ? Can you give us the option to buy an attribute remap timer reset for 1 plex, so that we don't have to wait a whole year ? I bet this way you'd "remove" much more plexes from the game than in potential destructions while being in the cargo of a ganked ship.

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Originally by: Flesh Slurper

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I disagree, All things in the game ultimately come from someone's time, which translates to game play purchased. So even if someone didn't buy the titan BPO with their own RL $, they still took a lot of people's time to get it, which translates to rl cash.

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Originally by: TimT7

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I can totally understand the change from CCP's point of view, I would like the free money too without having to provide anything (game content) in return.

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Originally by: Cyrus Doul

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Originally by: Larkonis Trassler

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The vast majority of people who buy PLEXs do so for resale (protip: subscriptions are generally much more efficient RL money wise than PLEXs).

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Actually lark. Unless there are systems in place such as taxes that stop this. 60 day gtcs are 35 USD which is equal to 2 plex, For me to buy two months on sub it cost me 15 US dollars, for someone in Europe it cost them 27 euros to get a plex. for a Brit to with GPB its only 23.20.

Could be completely wrong, I live in the USA and don't know how much monopoly money you make per hour or if there is some weird tax added to internet purchases. But if it does translate to where you make 10 pounds an hour and i make 10 USD an hour for the same job, Subs only make sense for Non Euro players.

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Originally by: Max Hardcase

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People have been blown up with serious ****loads of valuable crap in their cargo hold before. Sometimes items worth considerably more than 300M isk, so really, who cares?

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Originally by: Astria Tiphareth

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...

Originally by: Max Hardcase

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People have been blown up with serious ****loads of valuable crap in their cargo hold before. Sometimes items worth considerably more than 300M isk, so really, who cares?

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Those items never ever in any of their digital virtual lifetimes ever had any real money value attached. Like it or not, there is a perceptive difference. There is equally a difference between effective value (I spent X time in game, costing this much, thus items produced are worth Y) which is meaningless because currency trade doesn't work like that, and real traded value (this item is genuinely worth X in real currency).

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Originally by: Jagga Spikes

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note that PLEX neither has real money value attached. you can't legally sell PLEX for money, same way you can't legally sell non-PLEX items for money. same way, their ISK value is what players are willing to pay.

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Originally by: Astria Tiphareth

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Bear in mind that currency is effectively a sophisticated barter system, and the idea that somewhere along the lines the barter is allowed to become 'and you give me that, and I'll give you nothing' doesn't fit that well. In the real world, done directly between two individuals who agreed something different, that is called fraud - so I can understand and empathise with those attaching real monetary value to PLEXes and expressing some concern.

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Originally by: Astria Tiphareth

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Originally by: Jagga Spikes

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note that PLEX neither has real money value attached. you can't legally sell PLEX for money, same way you can't legally sell non-PLEX items for money. same way, their ISK value is what players are willing to pay.

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You're not wrong, but this is what I meant about perception. It's impossible to argue that one position is right and the other is wrong, because what we're dealing with is the intangible 'what is this worth?'.

The PLEX was worth something in real currency at one point. The same cannot be said for any virtual made items on the server. It thus has an associated value, in the same way that today $1 has an associated value of 66 UK pence. Nobody defined that except as the collective perception of a lot of people trading it.

Bear in mind that currency is effectively a sophisticated barter system, and the idea that somewhere along the lines the barter is allowed to become 'and you give me that, and I'll give you nothing' doesn't fit that well. In the real world, done directly between two individuals who agreed something different, that is called fraud - so I can understand and empathise with those attaching real monetary value to PLEXes and expressing some concern.

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Originally by: Walayden Obsidia

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It's like when you order a burger, then after the burger is delivered to you, you accidentally drop it in a toilet. The fact that you can no longer use what you bought does not change the fact that what you bought, was in fact delivered to you.

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Originally by: Yamato Gasaraki

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I wonder, can you still use it from anywhere in the galaxy from your assets?

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Originally by: YouDoNotOwnSalvage

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You do not in any way shape or form own salvage.

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Originally by: egegergergsdgedgege

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If a PLEX is only an ingame item that has no real value irl what would you say if CCP did choose to remove that item from the game by just deleting every PLEX?

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Originally by: Marlenus

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It neither surprises nor bothers me that CCP has instituted a feature by which they can sell an ingame item that is capable of going kaboomski before the dollars or Euros have even had time to be banked. Indeed, I view it as a sort of performance art, a sort that makes me chortle. Note that CCP's stated reason for doing this is grounded in aesthetics. Looking at the game as a whole, I believe them 100%. It probably bothered them to have carebear fluffy bunny bumpers on the plex items. I understand how it could have.

Yarr!

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Originally by: Sky Marshal

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But YOU STILL FAIL TO FIND FIVE FRAKKING MINUTES TO CORRECT ROCKETS who are screwed since 22 MONTHS ?

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Originally by: Sky Marshal

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Ok...

So CCP, you want to remove the "special status" that players gave to Plexes. Well, I don't care. But as long than Plexes are the ONLY item who can be bought using real money to a GTC in this game, and also the only one who can be "redeemed", they will KEEP their "special status", whatever you do.

Live with it.

But apparently, it is more interesting than expected... After all, you successed to find maybe like one hour to (try to) change the "special status" of an item, and write a dev blog about it. But YOU STILL FAIL TO FIND FIVE FRAKKING MINUTES TO CORRECT ROCKETS who are screwed since 22 MONTHS ?

Are you just stubborn to refuse to correct them, or dumb to prefer to change secondary stuff only for the sake of change ?

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Originally by: Some Advisor

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Originally by: Sky Marshal

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But YOU STILL FAIL TO FIND FIVE FRAKKING MINUTES TO CORRECT ROCKETS who are screwed since 22 MONTHS ?

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i see you have no clue (like most capslock whiners)

give us your insight how that 5 min rocket fix would be made?

"just add the right codes" ? " just fix it?"

there are *ALOT* of variables involved with that sort of stuff, its not a 5 min thing

Live with it

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if (target.Name != "Sky Marshall")
{
target.Destroy();
}

Originally by: Some Advisor

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there are *ALOT* of variables involved with that sort of stuff, its not a 5 min thing

Live with it

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Originally by: CCP Shadow

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What is thy bidd -- Wait. This thread, I have an irresistible urge to lock it for "being related to neither crime nor punishment."

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Originally by: Cain m

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In all honesty, Pilot's License Extension (PLEX) should never pop when their containing ship is destroyed. Keeping PLEX from being destroyed could decrease the demand of PLEX while not lowering the price. The average player on the receiving end of a dropped PLEX is significantly less likely to buy an ETC/GTC/PLEX from CCP than an empire carebear, and as such a change would not affect CCP's profits in any significant way. However, having dropped or not is unlikely to have an affect on the player who was killed. Either they would accept the loss, or they would buy another one. One thing that would have a significant effect from this proposed change is the possible decreased demand of PLEX. This would likely decrease the price of PLEX, increasing the money one would spend for a set amount of ISK. This could also stimulate the PLEX economy, by lowering prices. This effect would function similarly to Wal-Mart or one of the GOP's tax cuts (lacking the corrupted and generally ****ed-over parts stuck in by senators to favor the companies that will hire them after they leave office). Of course could all happen without the change, but much less so.

- Stuff

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Originally by: Larkonis Trassler

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But YOU STILL FAIL TO FIND FIVE FRAKKING MINUTES TO CORRECT ROCKETS who are screwed since 22 MONTHS ?

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Quote:

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We will remove the restriction on undocking from a station with a PLEX in your cargo hold

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• People who redeem plex for the first time and make the mistake of not doing so at a profitable location to correct this.


• Would allow some confident pvp-based players to give themselves a bounty as plex in their cargos.
[/list]

This point = Intresting....



Quote:

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We will remove the restriction that PLEX cannot be put into courier contracts

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I must disagree with this point. Ok, the collateral for plexes will be worth their value, but many will mix plex and other items on courier contracts, and the one carring out the courier cannot know the package contentains a plex untill he has agreed to do it.

So I would suggest adding a warning of some kind if you are gonna accept a contract with plexes.

Why? Becouse you will be a high-profile target. Many campers will probably only shoot to plex shippers.... Just because they will not shoot to someone shipping about 10M tritanium, as it is uncollectable by campers - they probably use combat ships at all times, not hauling veesels... But plex? Just one could be able to give back the value of all the ships at the camp..... and its low volume is a plus for the ganking.

Ok, some blueprints worth more than that, but those are not let into couriers and probably carried by well tanked ships....


About the rest.... a great change CCP, whatever I do not use ISK in order to keep my suscription....

Originally by: Br0wn 0ps

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Instead, why don't you allow us to apply them FROM ANYWHERE. So we can buy them via contracts or markets, and apply them from stations or space.

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Originally by: Raiiden

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ONLY CCP UNDERSTANDS ME!

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Originally by: Matalino

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PS: Destroyed PLEX = free money for CCP. Makes good business sense as well as game balance sense.

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Originally by: TimT77

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Edited by: TimT77 on 09/07/2010 17:42:52

Originally by: Quetazal

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I am so against this move its unreal.

A destroyed plex is bad for the players - but to CCP it is a free 15$

I can see the business logic here (greed); playerA gets a plex destroyed, playerA replaces it and uses too; so they have (indirectly) paid CCP 30$ instead of the 15$ for one month Sub.

If Plexes could not get destroyed upon drop I would be all for this btw.

Greedy and a needless change from our overseers imo.

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Good business sense from CCP.

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Originally by: Sire Magnus

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Originally by: TimT77

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Edited by: TimT77 on 09/07/2010 17:42:52

Originally by: Quetazal

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I am so against this move its unreal.

A destroyed plex is bad for the players - but to CCP it is a free 15$

I can see the business logic here (greed); playerA gets a plex destroyed, playerA replaces it and uses too; so they have (indirectly) paid CCP 30$ instead of the 15$ for one month Sub.

If Plexes could not get destroyed upon drop I would be all for this btw.

Greedy and a needless change from our overseers imo.

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Good business sense from CCP.

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The plex system is an exchange of real world currency for real world services. It is appalling that CCP is pretending that it's a game item just because they have given it an in-game representation.

EACH PLEX REPRESENTS CCP's OBLIGATION TO DELIVER 30 DAYS OF GAME TIME.

Failure to honor that obligation by any means or mechanic CCP controls can only be classified as THEFT or GAMBLING. CCP should go back and look at what happened to Linden Labs when the US government found out that in-game currency was being used in secondlife to gamble for things with real-world value. (for those who dont want to go look it up, gambling in game was banned in order for the game to stay available online in america)

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Originally by: SupaKudoRio

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I don't have all the facts

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Originally by: SupaKudoRio

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besides, no one will be silly enough to undock with PLEX unless it's absolutely necessary... right?

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Originally by: Callic Veratar

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As long as there's a little warning that pops up that says:

"You're undocking with a plex, you're risking losing it by undocking with it."

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Originally by: Garia666

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how big wil a plex be?

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Originally by: CCP Explorer

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Originally by: Angel HUN

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How big are the PLEX in m3?

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0.01 m3.

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Quote:

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you crazy? Do you know how many people will emoragequit when they're ganked with PLEX in their cargo?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Originally by: Maxsim Goratiev

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Hello CCP, it's an interesting change, however good or bad depends on a number of details::

I really want to know, after this change will i still be able to go Assets-station on the other side of the universe- apply plex without having to have plex in one station with me.

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Originally by: CCP Explorer

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Originally by: Dezolf

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Although, if they're still usable from any distance, it's really not much of a change..

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The technical aspect of how you apply a PLEX to your account to extend your subscription will be unchanged.

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Originally by: Maxsim Goratiev

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Secondly, if i am moving a plex and find myself attacked, can i apply the plex while i am being killed, in space, so the looters get nothing?

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Originally by: CCP Explorer

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Originally by: Clb

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So can I undock from Jita 4-4 in a Badger with a PLEX in my cargo and then apply it as soon as an Apoc locks me? Or can it only be applied in the station?

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The technical aspect of how you apply a PLEX to your account to extend your subscription will be unchanged. The PLEX must be in a hanger in a station when you apply (previously an NPC station, now a station).

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