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Danghor
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.07.10 05:32:00 -
[1]
I'm still amazed at the enormous risk CCP is taking for Dust. Many studios have developed failed shooters even after many years of trying and several releases.
I don't understand why CCP didn't try to release a simple shooter, just to see how they'd do with the reviews and the sales, then learn from it before doing the big jump. I don't think people will have patience for a failed shooter, there are so many good shooters that have been played by gamers in the last 10 years, our level of expectation is getting higher mainly because of Crytek, Valve, Activision, EA and Ubisoft who push the envelop every 2 years or so. And even those big names can fumble with the right recipe for success.
I think the right move would have been :
-Release of first single player (with MP) shooter by CCP in 2010. Sci-Fi storyline or whatever.
-Put all hands on improving the UI and other problems with EVE
-Check out the failure (my prediction) of Stargate Worlds by Sky Fire (Unknown company in the shooter world like CCP)
-Learn from mistakes of the 2 previously mentioned games
-Creation of 2nd shooter until you hit a 8.0+ review on Gamespot
-Creation of DUST.
Here's a very short list of failed shooters. I failed them based on :
- the hype before the release and how those games just melted after release
- Studio with experience getting a bad review.
- Franchise deflating.
I've played PC games since 1996, I consider a shooter worth playing when it's around 8.5 on gamespot, below that rating it's a huge gamble and might be a big waste of time, but there are exceptions.
Here's a short list of FAILED games :
Timeshift by Sierra FAIL
Area 51 by Midway FAIL
Serious Sam II by 2k Games FAIL
FEAR 2 by Warner Bros FAIL
Red Faction II by THQ FAIL
Chrome by Strategy First FAIL
Killing Floor by Tripwire interactive FAIL
Singularity by Activision FAIL
Unreal II: The Awakening by ATARi FAIL
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Clear Sky by Koch Media FAIL
Medal of Honor: Airborne by EA FAIL
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 by Activision FAIL
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas 2 by UbiSoft FAIL
Alien VS Predator 2010 by SEGA FAIL
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.10 05:44:00 -
[2]
Timeshift by Sierra FAIL - Never heard of it
Area 51 by Midway FAIL - True
Serious Sam II by 2k Games FAIL - WRONG!
FEAR 2 by Warner Bros FAIL - Dead wrong
Red Faction II by THQ FAIL - yup
Chrome by Strategy First FAIL- Yup
Killing Floor by Tripwire interactive FAIL - What?
Singularity by Activision FAIL - Yup
Unreal II: The Awakening by ATARi FAIL - Yup
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Clear Sky by Koch Media FAIL - I will end you! (in-game)
Medal of Honor: Airborne by EA FAIL - yup
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 by Activision FAIL - Not on console
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas 2 by UbiSoft FAIL - meh
Alien VS Predator 2010 by SEGA FAIL - I F***ING LOVE THAT GAME!!!!
 Originally by: captain foivos
It's not griefing, it's surprise PvP.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.07.10 05:50:00 -
[3]
OPF:DR (Codemasters version of OFP2)
Released with only P2P game hosting (as DUST will likely be)
60% discounted 2 weeks after release.
Community sites closed 3 weeks after release.
Console FPS are not long-standing solid products, they are barely functioning product dumped on a market,
that will buy anything and everything for $100 a piece.
Even the good FPS console games are gone within a few short months while the next one moves in for their cash-grab.
Amazing risk, can understand the motivation to grow the Eve universe, but growing it onto a market that is so transient?
Then CCP says they don't have dev time for Eve Online because they're spending it on DUST??
At least if it were a good PC FPS with dedicated servers it would still be played in 5-10 years.
If released as console only with P2P game hosting, I predict 3 months before the player count is 10% of what it is at launch.
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Galan Amarias
Amarr
The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2010.07.10 05:51:00 -
[4]
So because some fps failed you are mad about dust?
If CCP has shown anything over the years it is testicular fortitude and willingness to do something new, like a fps overlayed with a mmo where we interact.
Personally I can't wait to irradiate Dust-bunnies from orbit. I know I won't be allowed to from early on but I'm hoping we can get direct interaction some day.
Also, I vote we call all console souls, "Dust-bunnies"
-Galan
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Valorous Bob
The Real OC
Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2010.07.10 05:54:00 -
[5]
Dust will be an automatic win if console players will be able to walk in stations with EVE players and gape at our gargantuan space-vehicles-of-destruction and our even bigger e-peens.
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Stick Cult
Unspoken Autonomy.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 05:56:00 -
[6]
Quote:
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
What the **** are you on about? In sales, it's not a failure. Sure, the crowd might be teenage guys, but it is most certainly NOT a fail. I think overhyped a little, and I don't like the map map packs, but certainly not a fail.
Also, not that I think Dust will be the best shooter ever, but CCP has been working on it for a while, and has 2 studios working on it now.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
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Anaslex
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.07.10 06:00:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Galan Amarias
Also, I vote we call all console souls, "Dust-bunnies"
-Galan
Seconded!!
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Valorous Bob
The Real OC
Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2010.07.10 06:02:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Even the good FPS console games are gone within a few short months while the next one moves in for their cash-grab.
WTF, what console games do you play? My friends and I played the **** out of Halo 2 pretty consistently until Halo 3 came out, and then played the **** out of that for a good year and a half. Sure theres always the people that just play the FOTM, but **** those people tbh.
Originally by: Galan Amarias
Also, I vote we call all console souls, "Dust-bunnies"
-Galan
Hahaha yes! (Even though lots of us will play dust too)
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Arkanor
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
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Posted - 2010.07.10 06:24:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Arkanor on 10/07/2010 06:25:35
Originally by: Danghor
I consider a shooter worth playing when it's around 8.5 on gamespot
That's a pretty arbitrary benchmark, there ARE other review houses, and the number is simply a very very simplified figure.
Originally by: Danghor
Here's a short list of FAILED games :
<A few other games on this list are fairly good, Stalker, Serious Sam, RB6-2>
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 by Activision FAIL
OK, let me stop you there. The game made $1,000,000,000 in ten weeks, not bad for a "failed" game.
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Tribunia
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Posted - 2010.07.10 06:37:00 -
[10]
Figuring out why it s console and not PC should be made into it s own research field and people most successful in it be given the nobel price of ****ing binkybonky.
They gone mad.
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Mazzarins Demise
Profit Development and Research Association
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Posted - 2010.07.10 06:51:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Mazzarins Demise on 10/07/2010 06:51:08
Originally by: Danghor
I consider a shooter worth playing when it's around 8.5 on gamespot
Gamespot HAS to review a high-profile game well or their staff gets fired!
GERSTMANNGATE!!! DUN DUN DUN!!!!
_________________________________________
Support the "Seed Primae on the market and ORE LP Stores" proposal! Click here |
Ascendic
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.07.10 07:09:00 -
[12]
CCP view on dust >>>>>>>> FUUUUUUUUUUU EVE PLAYER BASE
My view on dust >>>>>>>>>>>> FUUUUUUUUUUU CCP
Hey how about you guys fix this ****ing game that is actually the only thing supporting you ****ing company FIRST before rolling out more ****ty ass games that dont work properly. K?
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Jason filigree
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Posted - 2010.07.10 07:37:00 -
[13]
Why would anybody make a game going for less than a success.
Making a game you donÆt expect to succeed is just a waste of time and money
Edward
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Eelis Kiy
Gallente
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.10 07:38:00 -
[14]
It's in my eyes, stealin my FW fixes. 
-----------------------------
>>where the frack is my ship?<< |
Jonna Bluemoon
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Posted - 2010.07.10 07:43:00 -
[15]
OP fails to understand that it's CCP's China office wich is developing Dust, not CCP at Iceland or Atlanta.. And it has been doing that for, what, 3-4 years now..
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Kesta Sovek
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.07.10 07:56:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Kesta Sovek on 10/07/2010 08:04:06
Originally by: Danghor
I don't understand why CCP didn't try to release a simple shooter
Probably for the same reason they didn't release a simple MMO. Personally, I'm tired of simple shooters. There are thousands of them already. If I wanted simple I'd be playing Modern Warfare 2 instead of sitting here posting about DUST 514.
Originally by: Stick Cult
Edited by: Stick Cult on 10/07/2010 05:59:22
Quote:
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
What the **** are you on about? In sales, it's not a failure. Sure, the crowd might be teenage guys, but it is most certainly NOT a fail. I think overhyped a little, and I don't like the map map packs, but certainly not a fail. It's also not a -bad- game, I quite enjoy it myself. Just don't play it on xbox, the immature 12 year olds **** me off... On PC it's good though.
On PC it's good?! It doesn't have dedicated servers or mod support. Such a thing is heresy! You should be pimp slapped for that remark.
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Im Blue
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ascendic
CCP view on dust >>>>>>>> FUUUUUUUUUUU EVE PLAYER BASE
My view on dust >>>>>>>>>>>> FUUUUUUUUUUU CCP
Hey how about you guys fix this ****ing game that is actually the only thing supporting you ****ing company FIRST before rolling out more ****ty ass games that dont work properly. K?
QFT
Spend the money we give you for eve, fixing eve. **** dust
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ChrisIsherwood
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:05:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jonna Bluemoon
OP fails to understand that it's CCP's China office wich is developing Dust, not CCP at Iceland or Atlanta.. And it has been doing that for, what, 3-4 years now..
Shanghai and now Newcastle are console according to press releases. Which IIRC refer to console games - so it is more than just DUST.
But even if console games may be hugh risk, it may be a better business decision than investing in EVE. CCP can stick with their older, single-threaded, 32-bit DX9 codebase. Or rewrite it ( shudders. painful death. ) Worse, most of the things that would increase EVE revenue ( more accessible skilling, reduced time sinks, more PvE ) are vehemently opposed by many current EVE customers. I can see console gaming looking attractive.
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.10 08:56:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 10/07/2010 08:56:33
What I fear most, is the connection between Dust and EVE. What will most likely happen is, that even when it is a good game console players will play it for a month or two and then throw it aside when next Call of Duty or Halo Title appears.
The game mechanic in connection to may fail because not enough attackers or defenders could be found for a planetary invasion, which in the end might cause an entire to campaign in EVE to fail.
I am sorry but console shooters are always on the short lived and short attention span side of gameplay and this does not mix well with EVE.
Quote:
Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 09:02:00 -
[20]
Saturday mornings used to be fun.
I'd make some premium coffee, with beans that completed their fresh roasting less than 48 hours before I hit them with 93.7 degrees of filtered water. I'd then take a few moments to butter some muffins and apply generous amounts of strawberry jam to them, before taking the coffee, and the muffins, to the PC.
One of the very first things I'd do is jump onto the forums and see what the trolls had decided to bring to the table, and in days gone by, they would bring me mirth and merriment wrapped up in well-thought-out-trollage about the inequities of the balance in EVE.
Nowadays, they don't even try.
AK
OT: Dust 514 will be the greatest sci-fi console FPS ever. period. Those players that pwn; will be famous. Those that suck; will be ousted with extreme prejudice. Bring it.
EVE-ONLINE VIDEO-MAKING TUTORIALS |
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Takashi Halamoto
No Limit Productions
Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 09:03:00 -
[21]
as has been stated the console market is very fluid,
dust will either have a small dedicated force,
console alts of eve players
or fade into obscurity very quickly,
in any case it means once dust is finally out it wont take long for it to endup being something thats just there and all the devs can come back and work on the flagship product eve
Me? im just sitting here,
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Ti'anla
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.10 10:00:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Ti''anla on 10/07/2010 10:03:58
I think DUST'll do okay. I think it has a shot at release success, but more importantly it has us, even if we don't choose to play. DUST will have a place to validate the goings on in-game, and for people to gain notoriety and for whose attention they can compete.
Not to mention, as long as /we're/ there, then so will DUST. It'll always have a kind of playerbase and I'm sure it'll develop a nice, loyal playerbase, however small, and once you have that /and/ the EVE player's to back it, I think it'll trundle along quite happily, mayhap seeing playerspikes here and there especially if publicity is well managed.
Certainly, I think they're doing the right choice going all-or-nothing with it, though. Sure, cautiously releasing first a single player one or the like, and building from there's safer.. but the chances of failure increase exponentially that way.
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Jhagiti Tyran
Invicta.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 11:06:00 -
[23]
I guess it all depends on what kind of game Dust is going to be, if CCP are aiming towards your typical shooter it will have difficulty competing with "Call of duty 32 future warfare episode 6" but if they are trying to make a planetside type game it could be a success and attract a long term following the way games like Mechwarrior did if the game mechanics are good and the product is generally polished.
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Miz Cenuij
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Posted - 2010.07.10 12:01:00 -
[24]
OP says he considers MW2 FAIL?
It had the largest single day sakes of any multimedia product EVER recorded on release day.
Developers dream of failingnlike that lol.
OP is another PC biased idiot who can't see past his keyboard and mouse.
Of everything you listed, YOU are the biggest fail in this thread.
"Men are going to die... and i'm going to kill them" |
Miz Cenuij
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Posted - 2010.07.10 12:06:00 -
[25]
One word on Dust - JTAG.
Nuff said ;)
"Men are going to die... and i'm going to kill them" |
Tellenta
Gallente
Invicta.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 12:09:00 -
[26]
I too dislike dust, is seems every time I clean it up from my home it comes back within a few days anyways. Damn you CCP for making even more dust.
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Eric Policky
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Posted - 2010.07.10 12:26:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Miz Cenuij
OP says he considers MW2 FAIL?
It had the largest single day sakes of any multimedia product EVER recorded on release day.
Developers dream of failingnlike that lol.
OP is another PC biased idiot who can't see past his keyboard and mouse.
Of everything you listed, YOU are the biggest fail in this thread.
Just to emphasize that the OP is an idiot for saying MW2 is a failure: There are currently 116,777 players on playlists for MW2 on XBox360 (on playlists meaning currently playing the game online). There are currently 22,865 players on Tranquility. There are more than 5 times as many players actively playing MW2 right now on XBox alone (the title is also available on other platforms) than EVE. If MW2 is a failure, surely OP must consider EVE a failure for only attracting an audience 20% the size of a portion of the MW2 audience.
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Duke Blake
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Posted - 2010.07.10 12:29:00 -
[28]
Sheep will always need a shepherd........
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ZenSun
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 12:52:00 -
[29]
Edited by: ZenSun on 10/07/2010 12:52:18
Originally by: AlleyKat
Saturday mornings used to be fun.
I'd make some premium coffee, with beans that completed their fresh roasting less than 48 hours before I hit them with 93.7 degrees of filtered water. I'd then take a few moments to butter some muffins and apply generous amounts of strawberry jam to them, before taking the coffee, and the muffins, to the PC.
One of the very first things I'd do is jump onto the forums and see what the trolls had decided to bring to the table, and in days gone by, they would bring me mirth and merriment wrapped up in well-thought-out-trollage about the inequities of the balance in EVE.
Nowadays, they don't even try.
AK
OT: Dust 514 will be the greatest sci-fi console FPS ever. period. Those players that pwn; will be famous. Those that suck; will be ousted with extreme prejudice. Bring it.
Confirming this is an absolute gem.
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YouKnowYouWannaDoIt
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Posted - 2010.07.10 13:28:00 -
[30]
The OP has "some" very good points and other have posted some as well.
- Dust IS running in a highly competitive market, and on top of that, one known for its short attention span.
- It's running on the UT3 engine, which means, even if its improved on, it won't be drastically better visually than UT3 itself was.
- CCP is hoping the strategic element and connection to Eve will prove both a bonus for Eve (more subs out of curiosity) and for Dust as Eve players move to play it. This is quite frankly the ONLY unique feature of the game.
How will it pan out?
- It could be a long term success, in that it might garner a core group of dedicated players from Eve and some new ones who enjoy the social and strategic elements.
- It will most likely NOT bring many new long term players to Eve, as consoles FPS games are far more ad hock that our favourite Excel in space game, Eve, and most curious players will probably still leave as they do now (Read almost any gaming forum, the comments of people who have tried Eve are usually negative).
- It might bring people from Eve to Dust, but I seriously doubt that the population of Eve who play console FPS games will be enough to sustain Dust.
- It might bring many new players out of curiosity, interested in the unique strategic aspects, and this I suspect, will be the make or break feature for Dust. It does however, require that CCP get this right the first time around, and, to be sadly honest, CCP's abilities in that area up until now have been nothing less than terrible. People play Eve despite the lag, bugs and terrible UI, not because of it.
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Anara Serraph
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2010.07.10 14:17:00 -
[31]
I am kinda looking forward to dust just to see what ccp can do with it.
I understand the op's concerns about a company diversifying the types of games it makes, but a lot of companies find success by doing that blizzard going into mmo development springs to mind as the biggest.
But having said that ccp's first priority should be fixing the broken stuff in eve.
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Danghor
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.07.10 14:31:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Galan Amarias
So because some fps failed you are mad about dust?
If CCP has shown anything over the years it is testicular fortitude and willingness to do something new, like a fps overlayed with a mmo where we interact.
Personally I can't wait to irradiate Dust-bunnies from orbit. I know I won't be allowed to from early on but I'm hoping we can get direct interaction some day.
Also, I vote we call all console souls, "Dust-bunnies"
-Galan
I'm not mad about Dust, simply stunned by the risk taken
Originally by: Arkanor
Edited by: Arkanor on 10/07/2010 06:28:25
Originally by: Danghor
I consider a shooter worth playing when it's around 8.5 on gamespot
That's a pretty arbitrary benchmark, there ARE other review houses, and the number is simply a very very simplified figure.
Originally by: Danghor
Here's a short list of FAILED games :
Serious Sam II by 2k Games FAIL
Unreal II: The Awakening by ATARi FAIL
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Clear Sky by Koch Media FAIL
Medal of Honor: Airborne by EA FAIL
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 by Activision FAIL
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas 2 by UbiSoft FAIL
Alien VS Predator 2010 by SEGA FAIL
OK, let me stop you there. Those are hardly failed games, I imagine most of them passed your metric (GS 8.5), so why FAIL?
Also, MW2 made $1,000,000,000 in ten weeks, not bad for a "failed" game.
Almost all the games in that list are reviewed below 8.0 on gamespot, by the gamespot reviewers AND the players !
MW2 is a fail [to me] mainly because the immense hype it got and poor review, it got a 8.5 ! With that much hype and with the developement team they have they should have got a 9.3 at least. If people paid a monthly fee to play MW2, how many do you think would have quit by now ?
But the goal of the list is only to show that great studios, even with the best intentions can fail to deliver. The list is only an example that FPS is a tough business and that CCP should have considered developping 1 or 2 shooters beforehand.
Originally by: Eric Policky
Originally by: Miz Cenuij
OP says he considers MW2 FAIL?
It had the largest single day sakes of any multimedia product EVER recorded on release day.
Developers dream of failingnlike that lol.
OP is another PC biased idiot who can't see past his keyboard and mouse.
Of everything you listed, YOU are the biggest fail in this thread.
Just to emphasize that the OP is an idiot for saying MW2 is a failure: There are currently 116,777 players on playlists for MW2 on XBox360 (on playlists meaning currently playing the game online). There are currently 22,865 players on Tranquility. There are more than 5 times as many players actively playing MW2 right now on XBox alone (the title is also available on other platforms) than EVE. If MW2 is a failure, surely OP must consider EVE a failure for only attracting an audience 20% the size of a portion of the MW2 audience.
I don't think MW2 strengthen the Call of Duty Community, sure they have a lot more people playing it than EVE. However as an analogy, if IBM makes 200 millions profit in a quarter, it's going to be a FAIL for the investors. Got my point ?
So with all the hype and marketing of MW2, who says that they consider 116 777 players a success ?
MW2 is a success when you look at the sales, when you look at the review and the people still playing it online, maybe it's not such a success.
Argumenting on the game list I provided is a bit pointless, do you agree that big studios, with lots of experience and several FPS under their belt, can FAIL ?
Don't you think it's a bit careless to go all the way with DUST ?
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Remina Hesto
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Posted - 2010.07.10 14:43:00 -
[33]
I hate FPSs on console in general. Comes from years of playing Doom/Doom II/Quake/Quake II. I need my keyboard and mouse to control my crosshair properly and be outstandingly accurate even at point-blank range. What I like in FPS is the story/campaign-mode, where you fight hordes of space monsters with only a shotgun, nerves of steel and potentially health packs (when lucky). That's what RPG FPS players like, which should be the target audience of CCP since they, you know, make MMORPGs originally.
Massive Multiplayer FPS is a complete turnoff for me, and probably a lot of my carebearish brethren. We still like shooting people, mind you, just that we prefer to shoot terrorists (replace with Sansha robozombies, if you want) in the head with a sniper rifle rather then twitchrun for 5 minutes in hope that you don't get killed too often and respawn and have to grab all your stuff again... and again.... and again...
So yeah, I don't expect much from Dust, other then a huge CCP budget invested in uselessness that people will play for 2-3 months maybe and not bring anything to the EVE community except maybe the odd PI being destroyed by the odd Dusty raids. Like almost all FPS, it will be forgotten very quickly, getting GREAT REVIEWS from paid reviewers that don't know good games from bad ones, just like all Unreal 3-engined FPS twitchgame.
I know my (and our, actually) opinions doesn't matter much to the devs, but a good action FPS with an awesome story would actually be memorable, unlike generic scifi MMOFPS 514. I know more people who played Halo for the story/action then for the AWESOME.jpg multiplayer mode.
tl;dr Dust will just be another FPS in an endless sea of FPS. And will fail accordingly.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2010.07.10 14:46:00 -
[34]
I would like "2142" meets "PlanetSide' - but for PC
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Gibbetto
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Posted - 2010.07.10 15:02:00 -
[35]
I thought Dust was just a way to make the player base pay for WIS development.
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Squat Hardpeck
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2010.07.10 15:11:00 -
[36]
I hate it when it gets all over my desk.
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Admiral Takia
Caldari
Running With Scissors Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.10 15:18:00 -
[37]
I would personally love to see it rts style, but that's just me (i suck at fps anyway). However I will be buying dust no questions asked and will play it until eve dies.
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Tarasina
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Posted - 2010.07.10 15:49:00 -
[38]
I like Rainbow Six Vegas 2, even though I would prefer the gameplay-style of Raven shield and old Ghost Recon.
Vegas 2 is fun in coop mode, as is Gears of War. I play those with my little brother on Xbox360.
I don't have a console, FPS games don't interest me on consoles per-se (no mouse + keyboard). And judging by Eve, I doubt Dust is bugfree.
But the direction some seems to go is the wrong way -> No mods. No mods means no longevity, no customization. Everyone benefits from mods, even game companies since they sell even more copies.
The fact that Eve doesn't even allow UI mods...every MMO I have played allows them and not in any of those have I NOT replaced the default. Simply because it's a matter of taste and what I need.
Try to convince me Eve wouldn't benefit from the UI getting modded, please.
But back to Dust. No, wont buy, don't care, I dont care if Im the only one in the world not having it.
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Ghonner Rea
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Posted - 2010.07.10 17:38:00 -
[39]
Dust,.. hmm.. does it have sound?
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Guilliman R
Gallente
PRO Space Hunters
HUNTER'S BROTHERHOOD
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Posted - 2010.07.10 17:49:00 -
[40]
I really like CCP, but their decisions leave much to be understood.
Fact they cant fix/finish content and they rather make new half working stuff is a shame. There for I secretly hope dust fails and they loose millions :/. Only then will they realise they should focus more on EVE and less on future stuff that takes years to develop and leaves current half working content in the dust (pun intended).
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Fistme
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Posted - 2010.07.10 18:35:00 -
[41]
dust is gana have a large influx of players at the start as do all fresh shooters. After the initial surge of evers and consolers the game will deflate as all shooters do. I'd expect the game to have a small population of dedicated players post release surge. Dust will also be competing in a market where there are similar games, very different to the competition eve faces.
Game has got to be extremely good if it's going to last in a genre with 5+ new titles every year. overall it will not ever be the cashcow eve is or really any of the established fps titles. dust = failgame as far as i'm concerned, just look at the xm8 assault rifle ripoff, not even original...
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Spades Slick
Caldari
Rookies Academy Elite
The Compass
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Posted - 2010.07.10 18:41:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Fistme
dust is gana have a large influx of players at the start as do all fresh shooters. After the initial surge of evers and consolers the game will deflate as all shooters do. I'd expect the game to have a small population of dedicated players post release surge. Dust will also be competing in a market where there are similar games, very different to the competition eve faces.
Game has got to be extremely good if it's going to last in a genre with 5+ new titles every year. overall it will not ever be the cashcow eve is or really any of the established fps titles. dust = failgame as far as i'm concerned, just look at the xm8 assault rifle ripoff, not even original...
Well, damn, you're right.
Those ground vehicles shouldn't have wheels, for that matter -- wheels are outdated! And who uses bullets anymore? They should be using telekinesis guns.
Nothing is allowed to resemble anything that exists in real life in games.
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Fistme
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Posted - 2010.07.10 19:21:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Spades Slick
Well, damn, you're right.
Nothing is allowed to resemble anything that exists in real life in games.
Using a 20th century failed prototype gun as the model for an assault rifle used thousands of years in the future seems rather.... um... stupid? It would be one thing if the gun actually looked like something unique and then was integrated into the game/fiction, example would be the prototype fleshlette rifle developed during the 70s that is surprisingly similar to the pulse rifle used in the movie "aliens"(2nd one). The issue is that the xm8 is widely known, and not even that futuristic looking... In short, don't copy it.
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Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.07.10 19:21:00 -
[44]
OP is trolling guys come on.
Release a "simple" shooter "just to see"? Release a single-player shooter first? Put the FPS programmers to work fixing the Eve UI? Release DUST based on Gamespot reviews?
Really?
OP I sentence you to live on a small island in the middle of a traffic circle not less than 24 lanes deep and where it is always rush hour. There you will remain until a panel of myself and an alt to be made later have deemed you worthy to rejoin polite society. May God have mercy on your soul tbh.
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Kephael
Caldari
SERENDIPITY INC
R-I-P
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Posted - 2010.07.10 19:27:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Danghor
I'm still amazed at the enormous risk CCP is taking for Dust. Many studios have developed failed shooters even after many years of trying and several releases.
I don't understand why CCP didn't try to release a simple shooter, just to see how they'd do with the reviews and the sales, then learn from it before doing the big jump. I don't think people will have patience for a failed shooter, there are so many good shooters that have been played by gamers in the last 10 years, our level of expectation is getting higher mainly because of Crytek, Valve, Activision, EA and Ubisoft who push the envelop every 2 years or so. And even those big names can fumble with the right recipe for success.
I think the right move would have been :
-Release of first single player (with MP) shooter by CCP in 2010. Sci-Fi storyline or whatever.
-Put all hands on improving the UI and other problems with EVE
-Check out the failure (my prediction) of Stargate Worlds by Sky Fire (Unknown company in the shooter world like CCP)
-Learn from mistakes of the 2 previously mentioned games
-Creation of 2nd shooter until you hit a 8.0+ review on Gamespot
-Creation of DUST.
Here's a very short list of failed shooters. I failed them based on :
- the hype before the release and how those games just melted after release
- Studio with experience getting a bad review.
- Franchise deflating.
I've played PC games since 1996, I consider a shooter worth playing when it's around 8.5 on gamespot, below that rating it's a huge gamble and might be a big waste of time, but there are exceptions.
Here's a short list of FAILED games :
Timeshift by Sierra FAIL
Area 51 by Midway FAIL
Serious Sam II by 2k Games FAIL
FEAR 2 by Warner Bros FAIL
Red Faction II by THQ FAIL
Chrome by Strategy First FAIL
Killing Floor by Tripwire interactive FAIL
Singularity by Activision FAIL
Unreal II: The Awakening by ATARi FAIL
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Clear Sky by Koch Media FAIL
Medal of Honor: Airborne by EA FAIL
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 by Activision FAIL
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas 2 by UbiSoft FAIL
Alien VS Predator 2010 by SEGA FAIL
I loved the old Area 51 game, it was an arcade port. I played it over and over.
__________________________________________
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Earthican
Minmatar
DARKFELL EXCURSIONS
Bunny Nation
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Posted - 2010.07.10 19:53:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Danghor
Area 51 by Midway FAIL
The arcade version of this game is one of the best games of all time IMHO.
The trick to real enjoyment of it was(is) to play 2 player grab a gun in each hand, stand back and go nuts.
If you never beat the game playing 2P yourself, you never beat the game.
As for DUST it will be the only 1st person shooter on the market that gets continued support and upgrades including new maps. Either this will revolutionize the market or take it over.
So what if it gets off to a slow start, the companies that make these games now barely even notice when that happens. They have forgotten about the game before it hits the shelves being so busy on the next game which is the same game but with new maps.
P.S. Has anyone counted the number of Minmatar regions in empire space? |
Simeon Tor
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Posted - 2010.07.10 20:30:00 -
[47]
I try to stay at least 100ft from any consoles at all times so I have to ask, how long does a console game last for? I mean consoles go out of fasion pretty fast from what I can see.
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Terazuk
Amarr
THORN Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.07.10 21:23:00 -
[48]
Originally by: AlleyKat
Dust 514 will be the greatest sci-fi console FPS ever. period. Those players that pwn; will be famous. Those that suck; will be ousted with extreme prejudice. Bring it.
This tbqfh!
Flaws be damned, I can't help but feel a little trepidation over the fortunes of my beautiful and beloved Eve. Especially when entrusted to the capricious and notoriously fickle console market.
That said, I'm really quite in love with DUST 514 as a concept... The best of the best in-game will practically have a blank check to do their thing, extinction level orbital strikes on command and all the toys they could possibly want, e-accolades to boot. Who will be the BOB of the Dust crowd? I personally can't wait to find out.
Call me mad but I fully intend to purchase the appropriate console + dust immediately upon release. I'll also be purchasing a couple of copies for my parents too, avid gamers that they also are!
I also reserve the right to decide it's crap and whinge endlessly about how much CCP suck after getting my face pwned repeatedly by 11 yr olds.
Fortes Fortuna Adiuvat
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Guilliman R
Gallente
PRO Space Hunters
HUNTER'S BROTHERHOOD
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Posted - 2010.07.10 21:24:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Guilliman R on 10/07/2010 21:24:21
Dust wont be a success if it relies on massive patches for extra content. Consoles don't have near infinite storage much like a PC has.
And if patches would be mandatory to play online, then the game will fail big time. |
democrities
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Posted - 2010.07.10 23:39:00 -
[50]
Does is gonna fail big time. It will be the battlefield earth of Eve. Why is any corp gonna sponsor a dust corp to conquer planets when PI and everything u get from it sucks balls anyway?
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Spades Slick
Caldari
Rookies Academy Elite
The Compass
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Posted - 2010.07.10 23:42:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Earthican
As for DUST it will be the only 1st person shooter on the market that gets continued support and upgrades including new maps.
I take it you have NEVER played a game by Valve... or anything made in the past 10 years, for that matter.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Dust, interested to see what happens with it... but I just gotta nip that line of thought in the bud right here and now.
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Sekretarka
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Posted - 2010.07.11 11:41:00 -
[52]
It is true that Dust is economical risk for CCP, however it is a calcualted risk. CCP empoys very smart people that know the market, also it is not that hard to outsource the market research and predictions.
Most of the most popular console FPS have several things in common:
Good multiplayer experience, that is enhanced by frequent map packs,
Some king of experince progression and unlocking of weapons/stuff,
Ranking and competitiveness.
Now dust is multiplayer, has player progression beyond games currently present on the market, can definitely have some kind of player/corporation ranking and on top of that is has the MMO persistence element, which makes it easier for players to make long term investment in the game.
Also, most console players buy FPS for their online multiplayer longevity, of which dust has mountains.
Each copy of Dust will probably sell for regular console game price, so there already is money for CCP. On top of that there are microtransactions in place to provide additional income, even if the game doesn;t sell great initially.
In this thread, Dust has been discussed with games that are nothing like Dust. Dust is quiet unique project, with only maybe MAG on PS3 that could be its competition. It's MMOFPS, not just FPS.
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Simeon Tor
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Posted - 2010.07.11 11:47:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Spades Slick
I take it you have NEVER played a game by Valve... or anything made in the past 10 years, for that matter.
I think he meant on consoles.
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Zeredek
Gallente
Vanguard Venture
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Posted - 2010.07.11 12:35:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Zeredek on 11/07/2010 12:35:06
Originally by: Danghor
-Creation of 2nd shooter until you hit a 8.0+ review on Gamespot
I stopped reading right there.
Also my view on dust:
Linkage
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Shady deals? IN MY EVE ONLINE? I don't believe it.
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Tyrolen
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Posted - 2010.07.11 13:00:00 -
[55]
If you think MWF2 failed, you have pretty large perception problems.
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Remina Hesto
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Posted - 2010.07.11 13:09:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Tyrolen
If you think MWF2 failed, you have pretty large perception problems.
The fact that it gets amazingly boring after 10 hours of gameplay does make it a failed game. Even though it sold millions of copies. I liked the first MW better.
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Kiritsubo
Ritual Suicide
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Posted - 2010.07.11 13:16:00 -
[57]
Originally by: AlleyKat
I'd make some premium coffee, with beans that completed their fresh roasting less than 48 hours before I hit them with 93.7 degrees of filtered water.
Why would you make your coffee with lukewarm water?
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Faye Valerii
Caldari
Exeunt Omnes
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Posted - 2010.07.11 14:46:00 -
[58]
I'd give Dust a chance IF it would be coming out on PC as well ... However, as others have said, if it stays on console it will (at best) peter out after a few months.
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Krecian
Gallente
Essence of Decay
Black Cartel.
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Posted - 2010.07.11 14:47:00 -
[59]
I love the concept, as it attempts to take the two game types into one universe without forcing the player-types together (like Fallen Earth, APB, and to a lesser extend Borderlands). It also gives people like myself who like both genres a chance to work with the game type we feel like playing while staying in a universe they love. I'm excited at possible prospects for skills equipment in Eve that may be attempted in the future (orbital artillery from the Eve pilots, anyone? LOL).
My only disappointment? I hate shooters on consoles, I hate aiming with a controller with a screaming passion, so I don't see myself buying Dust unless it has a PC port.
---------
"The first rock thrown again, welcome to hell little saint. Mother Gia in slaughter, welcome to paradise soldier." -Nightwish, Planet Hell |
John Ellsworth
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.11 16:01:00 -
[60]
I thought trolling was not allowed on this board.?
To answer a question , I welcome Dust 514 with open arms , and personally believe it will be the "WoW Killer" that so many game companies actively seek.
/Salute CCP on Dust 514 
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Amerilia
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Posted - 2010.07.11 16:08:00 -
[61]
I hate DUST, for it drew the dev resources that could have been used on EVE. Just look at the last two expansions, theyre hollow. And PI can be coded quite fast if you have skilled programmers  .
Furthermore I will likely never play it, since I dont own an XBox/PS3 and I doubt it will come out for Wii.
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Eric Policky
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Posted - 2010.07.11 16:14:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Amerilia
I hate DUST, for it drew the dev resources that could have been used on EVE. Just look at the last two expansions, theyre hollow. And PI can be coded quite fast if you have skilled programmers .
Furthermore I will likely never play it, since I dont own an XBox/PS3 and I doubt it will come out for Wii.
I'd just like to point out that there is a chance that some or even most of the coding done for PI are not visible to us at this point because it has yet to be integrated with DUST. I'm not saying this is definitely the case, just that it might be.
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Sekretarka
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Posted - 2010.07.11 16:54:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Amerilia
I hate DUST, for it drew the dev resources that could have been used on EVE. Just look at the last two expansions, theyre hollow. And PI can be coded quite fast if you have skilled programmers .
Furthermore I will likely never play it, since I dont own an XBox/PS3 and I doubt it will come out for Wii.
The Dust developers are separate team from eve developers. Only thing taking resources away from the usual expansions is Incarna!
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Masumi Do
Lions of Judah Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.07.11 17:25:00 -
[64]
Dust is an extremely risky venture not only because it's a FPS but also because it's on consoles.
Unlike EvE and other PC games, console games lifespans are heavily influenced by 2 things. Player acceptance and console lifespan. Unlike EvE which can be upgraded overtime through expansions and updates there will be a point where a new generation of consoles will come out and leave Dust behind.
The only next step is for CCP to spend more money on creating a new game or hope that the next gen consoles have backwards compatibility of some sort.
I believe that Dust is destined to fail because it's on a console. That's why I never understood why CCP chose the console platform over the PC for this game. They are dooming their game because it will not be able to evolve with EvE once the next generation of consoles comes out.
Recent Console Trends (Excluding Handhelds):
Nintendo- N64 1996, Gamecube 2001, Wii 2006
Sony- PS 1994, PS2 2000, PS3 2006
Microsoft- Xbox 2001, Xbox 360 2005
Though Dust doesn't require EvE and EvE doesn't require Dust the loss of Dust(if it's as good as CCP claims) could hurt EvE itself. Imagine an aspect of PvP just disappearing.
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Jurona
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Posted - 2010.07.11 17:41:00 -
[65]
I am torn on Dust.
I think it's a fantastic idea, to start with. Sure, some people are bawwing because it's tailored to a different audience, but I know that I'm likely going to be going for it myself.
The problem(s) is/are what many people have already said; the short lifespan of most consoles, and the makeup of the console playerbase. Now, I'm not out to bash console gamers themselves, I have a 360 myself, and love playing it. I'm not going to bash the hardware, saying "OMG IT'S NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH." Okay, fine, so it can't match a $2500 gaming rig -- so what? No, see, my problem is with the fast majority of flavor-of-the-week gamers, who play the hottest game for a few weeks, maybe months, until the servers slowly die and disappear. Exceptions exist, like Call of Duty or Halo, but seriously, look at those games; they're designed to get into as quickly as possible, get your frag on, then leave. Hell, don't know about the PS3 version, but for the 360 version of MW2, you can actually skip all the logos and intro movies and stuff and be right in the multiplayer menu within maybe 5 seconds of starting the game (I have it installed on my HDD, so it might be faster for me, but you get the point). It's all about "I wanna kill some dudez", **** around for a while, then leave. Unfortunately, this kind of gameplay seems almost tailored to younger players, albeit with content that is... mature, hence the sheer number of kids on XBL trying to grow their e-peen before they've even hit puberty. As a member of the console community, I feel I can objectively say that the majority of us are easily-amused, short-attention-span kids or young adults. Naturally, I assume that I'm not in that category, but I probably am. Oh well.
Anyways, what I'm getting at is that the idea of turning the EVE experience into an FPS almost certainly entails introducing some aspects of the EVE world into the game; we might see skill queues, or pared-down marketplaces, nowhere near EVE Online's depth of course, but still rather much to put in front of your typical Modern Warfare 2 "vet"'s sensitive, shortsighted mind. Most of them don't care about building a skill tree, or getting the best value on buying equipment, or sovereignty, planetary control, any of that nonsense; the few who do will be us EVE players who also happen to be console players, and those who share our appreciation for depth in games (but haven't yet experienced EVE).
While I know it's rather selfish of me, I would just love to see a great singleplayer experience. Imagine (after they retcon-fu the canon) a Kestrel screaming overhead, bombarding an enemy emplacement with missiles, for the intro to one mission; the next, you walk up to the staging area and your CO points to the MTACs you're about to be taking into battle. Joy. Stuff like that is what makes FPS games enjoyable for me, really, having that cinematic quality put into a game where you BECOME one of the warriors; I like to think that I am not like most FPS fans, obsessed with grinding my k/d on the leaderboards and being #1. Multiplayer always comes second for me, when it comes to games, but of course Dust will NEED to be focused on MP as a matter of its intent. Just hope to see some cool EVE-related **** in there, preferably in cutscenes and/or live game scenes (which would be hard to show on MP servers, hence why I want a SP component), but I would understand if CCP made a purely MP game.
Just my two hundredths of an ISK.
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Amerilia
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Posted - 2010.07.11 17:43:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Amerilia on 11/07/2010 17:43:07
Originally by: Sekretarka
Originally by: Amerilia
I hate DUST, for it drew the dev resources that could have been used on EVE. Just look at the last two expansions, theyre hollow. And PI can be coded quite fast if you have skilled programmers .
Furthermore I will likely never play it, since I dont own an XBox/PS3 and I doubt it will come out for Wii.
The Dust developers are seperate team from eve developers. Only thing taking resources away from the usual expansions is Incarna!
But what if the developer that are working on dust werent workking on dust and instead working on EVE?
Them beeing seperatate doesnt make them unable to help.
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SammyullJackson
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Posted - 2010.07.11 17:48:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Amerilia
Edited by: Amerilia on 11/07/2010 17:43:07
Originally by: Sekretarka
Originally by: Amerilia
I hate DUST, for it drew the dev resources that could have been used on EVE. Just look at the last two expansions, theyre hollow. And PI can be coded quite fast if you have skilled programmers .
Furthermore I will likely never play it, since I dont own an XBox/PS3 and I doubt it will come out for Wii.
The Dust developers are seperate team from eve developers. Only thing taking resources away from the usual expansions is Incarna!
But what if the developer that are working on dust werent workking on dust and instead working on EVE?
Them beeing seperatate doesnt make them unable to help.
Spellcheck... please.
Anyways, note: FPS and MMORPGs take completely different design philosophies to mold. The ONLY common aspect would be fiction/canon people (making sure everything is consistent with the EVE universe and its established rules, making up new stories and such, etc.), and such people are not going to make or break the dev cycle of EVE Online or Dust.
That's why software companies HAVE different divisions (making different games) in different places... each holds a unique crew, that does what it does better than any of their fellow employees. In this case, designing a FPS as opposed to an MMO.
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Sekretarka
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Posted - 2010.07.11 17:49:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Amerilia
Edited by: Amerilia on 11/07/2010 17:43:07
Originally by: Sekretarka
Originally by: Amerilia
I hate DUST, for it drew the dev resources that could have been used on EVE. Just look at the last two expansions, theyre hollow. And PI can be coded quite fast if you have skilled programmers .
Furthermore I will likely never play it, since I dont own an XBox/PS3 and I doubt it will come out for Wii.
The Dust developers are seperate team from eve developers. Only thing taking resources away from the usual expansions is Incarna!
But what if the developer that are working on dust werent workking on dust and instead working on EVE?
Them beeing seperatate doesnt make them unable to help.
And they have helped, remember Apocrypha??? The point here is that Eve does not have less devs on it then before, actually it has more, and CCP hires new people every month. Also, it would take time and effort to integrate a team that has been working on dust to work on eve, its just not efficient. As I said before, my suspicion is that as Incarna is moving towards its final stages of development, it is starting to pull people who would otherwise be working on our "2 a year" expansions. I am in no way happy with how Tyrannis and PI have turned out, but I feel CCP aren;t either.
I say we wait until we know what is in the next expansion and see if that satisfies our idea of good expansion or not.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.11 17:56:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Amerilia
Originally by: Sekretarka
The Dust developers are seperate team from eve developers. Only thing taking resources away from the usual expansions is Incarna!
But what if the developer that are working on dust werent working on dust and instead working on EVE?
Then they wouldn't exist.
Dust is an investment on CCP's part, and without the hope of it paying off, they wouldn't have bothered with the cost of adding those developers.
You know that old saying "you have to spend money to make money"? Well, having those Dust developers are the spending part, and releasing the game is the making part ù neither would exist without the other.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Caldrion Dosto
Svea Rike
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.07.11 18:36:00 -
[70]
If it has less lag then EvE i"ll play it
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Manipulator General
o.0
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Posted - 2010.07.11 18:44:00 -
[71]
It will be a complete disaster.
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Arushia
Nova Labs
New Eden Research.
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Posted - 2010.07.11 20:35:00 -
[72]
A sci-fi FPS, set in EVE universe? Want.
Console exclusive? Tied in to PI? Not sure if want.
PC version please, even if it's delayed a couple months after console.
And don't forget the dedicated servers.
New Eden Research, where your research gets done! |
Aion Amarra
Minmatar
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation
Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.11 20:58:00 -
[73]
Well, the way I see it, it'll go roughly like this.
1. Dust 514 gets released.
2. Several people play it a ton, then get bored or their XBoxes RRoD.
3. Playercount drops abysmally
4. CCP sees that didn't work out and throws out a hasty PC port. ('Relatively' simple, given afaik Dust runs on the Unreal Engine 3)
5. PC port will be buggy at first, but get patched a few weeks/months down the line
6. Relatively smooth sailing from then on after initial desaster.
As for dedicated servers, shouldn't at least the PI-tie-ins run on CCP hosted servers anyway? It wouldn't make sense to have that be peer-to-peer.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.11 21:02:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Arushia
And don't forget the dedicated servers.
 It would be kind of hard without oneà
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Amerilia
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Posted - 2010.07.11 21:03:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Arushia
And don't forget the dedicated servers.
It would be kind of hard without oneà
Ehm, you never seen P2P games?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.11 21:06:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Amerilia
Ehm, you never seen P2P games?
It's an MMO, you know. Run by CCP, no less.
So again: why wouldn't the server be dedicated?
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Amerilia
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Posted - 2010.07.11 21:10:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Amerilia
Ehm, you never seen P2P games?
It's an MMO, you know. Run by CCP, no less.
So again: why wouldn't the server be dedicated?
Well you can take S4, for instance "MMO"-Shooter.
P2P network.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.11 21:17:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Amerilia
Well you can take S4, for instance "MMO"-Shooter.
P2P network.
S4 is not an MMO, with or without quotation marks.
Have a look at the actuall persistent MMOFPSes out there and think again. The whole concept rules out the existence of P2P.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Amerilia
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Posted - 2010.07.11 21:20:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Amerilia on 11/07/2010 21:22:18
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Amerilia
Well you can take S4, for instance "MMO"-Shooter.
P2P network.
S4 is not an MMO, with or without quotation marks.
Have a look at the actuall persistent MMOFPSes out there and think again. The whole concept rules out the existence of P2P.
Well they call themselves mmo, thats the reason for the quotation marks. But still from what I have seen of Dust so far, it works similar, it¦s not an open world.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.11 21:31:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Amerilia
Well they call themselves mmo, thats the reason for the quotation marks.
That's their problem and their PR doesn't make them an MMOà Hell, the Battlefield and Modern Warfare games are just as "MMO" as it is (i.e. not at all).
Quote:
But still from what I have seen of Dust so far, it works similar, it¦s not an open world.
Define "open world".
Above all, it's a persistent world ù the same persistent world as EVE, as it happens ù which means the persistence has to be stored at a central location. This, in turn, means that P2P won't happen, because CCP won't let you have any control (aka h4x) whatsoever over how the world changes.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
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Aion Amarra
Minmatar
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation
Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.11 22:18:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Tippia
Above all, it's a persistent world ù the same persistent world as EVE, as it happens ù which means the persistence has to be stored at a central location. This, in turn, means that P2P won't happen, because CCP won't let you have any control (aka h4x) whatsoever over how the world changes.
I know what you're getting at, but it's still a bad example.
Named game, S4League, technically also has central login servers, an account database, stored characters with level and equipment, yet the actual ingame matches are carried out solely P2P. And it fails hard, because you constantly have random people lagspiking everyone.
Modern Warfare 2 does this somewhat similarly, too. Which is also bad. Basically, people are afraid that the local 'matches' will be hosted clientside.
I consider this relatively unlikely, given they confirmed like, what, 64 player matches? I seriously doubt people randomly running this from home, over their home connections, hosted on an XBox, is going to go anywhere. If anything, a match that is about to begin spawns a decicated server thread somewhere on a relatively untaxed node somewhere on CCPs central Dust 514 servers. Everything else would be nuts.
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Amerilia
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Posted - 2010.07.11 22:43:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Amerilia on 11/07/2010 22:43:57
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Amerilia
Well they call themselves mmo, thats the reason for the quotation marks.
That's their problem and their PR doesn't make them an MMOà Hell, the Battlefield and Modern Warfare games are just as "MMO" as it is (i.e. not at all).
Quote:
But still from what I have seen of Dust so far, it works similar, it¦s not an open world.
Define "open world".
Above all, it's a persistent world ù the same persistent world as EVE, as it happens ù which means the persistence has to be stored at a central location. This, in turn, means that P2P won't happen, because CCP won't let you have any control (aka h4x) whatsoever over how the world changes.
Well yes, the overall system would have to be hosted by CCP, as is the system in S4 (items, clans, experience etc. there).
And then the actual combat is in P2P, which would be possible in dust as well, the players that would fight on one planet/area would have a P2P network with a CCP server watching over them.
However I am with the crowd that dedicated servers are better. Don¦t know if you played it, but S4 is crawling with hackers and lag-problems.
*edit: Since I didnt refresh my browser for a while I didnt see the post above me - sorry.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.11 22:50:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Tippia on 11/07/2010 22:51:17
Originally by: Amerilia
Well yes, the overall system would have to be hosted by CCP, as is the system in S4 (items, clans, experience etc. there).
More than that, though, CCP would host the world (and this is a very important distinction: as far as I know, S4 doesn't have a world), and it is in this world that the combat in Dust takes place. Thus, CCP will have to host the combat as well.
Quote:
And then the actual combat is in P2P, which would be possible in dust as well, the players that would fight on one planet/area would have a P2P network with a CCP server watching over them.
Seeing as how that would still be a matter of giving the players themselves control over the key world-shaping mechanism, while possible, it just wouldn't happen. "Watching over" isn't enough ù you never trust the clientà
So there would only be one kind of server: CCP's dedicated one.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Sader Rykane
Amarr
Midnight Sentinels
Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.07.11 22:58:00 -
[84]
Hmm... I'm rather surprised other eve player play S4.
Orca Pilot Sale |
Amerilia
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Posted - 2010.07.11 23:06:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Hmm... I'm rather surprised other eve player play S4.
Basically it is a bit like Unreal Tournament, quick fps, but you have lots of noobs to slaughter 
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VinLieger
Caldari
Kraken Heads
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Posted - 2010.07.11 23:29:00 -
[86]
Firstly Gamespot? seriously? i barely rate them anymore. I usually base my decisions off several different reviews rather than one since they usually all manage to find different things and nuances that add or subtract from a game and therefore give you a better picture. Using GS and only GS as a metric is just fail on your part and your whole logic because of it is flawed and wrong
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.07.12 00:57:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Jonna Bluemoon
OP fails to understand that it's CCP's China office wich is developing Dust, not CCP at Iceland or Atlanta..
Originally by: ChrisIsherwood
Shanghai and now Newcastle are console according to press releases.
Originally by: Amerilia
I hate DUST, for it drew the dev resources that could have been used on EVE. Just look at the last two expansions, theyre hollow
Originally by: Sekretarka
The Dust developers are separate team from eve developers. Only thing taking resources away from the usual expansions is Incarna!
Then why has CCP said to the CSM that they can't work on any of the Eve fixes demanded because they have no time with resources devoted to Dust and Incana?
Originally by: Gibbetto
I thought Dust was just a way to make the player base pay for WIS development.
Sure is. Vampire MMO anyone?
Find me an Eve player who will quit if WiS isn't finished.
Find me an Eve player who will quit if Eve isn't fixed?
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Captain Merkin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.12 10:22:00 -
[88]
im actually going to hold any preconceptions i have about dust for now, I really am impressed with the outreach of the project though allowing interaction between console and pc gamers in one universe.
Would also like to see a type of movie mode in eve that allows you to watch planetary battles you have staked a claim in from a station ;)
looks good, lets just see eh
as for your list of fail games, thats your own opinion and I only agree with a few points ;)
Proving natural selection and Charles Darwin wrong since 1981.
The Kamikaze pilot
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.07.12 10:57:00 -
[89]
happy days
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Zofe Stormcaller
Shadow Company
Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2010.07.12 12:03:00 -
[90]
I for one, will be buying Dust, and a console to play it on...
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.12 12:32:00 -
[91]
I'm hoping it will be similar to planetside.
If it is i will buy it, if it becomes available for PC.
I dont like consoles.
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Fistme
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Posted - 2010.07.12 12:52:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Originally by: Jonna Bluemoon
OP fails to understand that it's CCP's China office wich is developing Dust, not CCP at Iceland or Atlanta..
Originally by: ChrisIsherwood
Shanghai and now Newcastle are console according to press releases.
Originally by: Amerilia
I hate DUST, for it drew the dev resources that could have been used on EVE. Just look at the last two expansions, theyre hollow
Originally by: Sekretarka
The Dust developers are separate team from eve developers. Only thing taking resources away from the usual expansions is Incarna!
Then why has CCP said to the CSM that they can't work on any of the Eve fixes demanded because they have no time with resources devoted to Dust and Incana?
Thank you for posting this dr battlesmith. I'm sick of all the kiddies theory crafting development structures instead of reading released csm meeting info that directly contradicts their fail points.
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Sekretarka
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Posted - 2010.07.12 14:23:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Fistme
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Originally by: Jonna Bluemoon
OP fails to understand that it's CCP's China office wich is developing Dust, not CCP at Iceland or Atlanta..
Originally by: ChrisIsherwood
Shanghai and now Newcastle are console according to press releases.
Originally by: Amerilia
I hate DUST, for it drew the dev resources that could have been used on EVE. Just look at the last two expansions, theyre hollow
Originally by: Sekretarka
The Dust developers are separate team from eve developers. Only thing taking resources away from the usual expansions is Incarna!
Then why has CCP said to the CSM that they can't work on any of the Eve fixes demanded because they have no time with resources devoted to Dust and Incana?
Thank you for posting this dr battlesmith. I'm sick of all the kiddies theory crafting development structures instead of reading released csm meeting info that directly contradicts their fail points.
Funny, dr battlesmith corrects me with almost exactly what I said. Plus, this quiet old "kiddie" gets his information from talking to CCP devs and industry events, such as GDC. I'll ask them again at GDC Europe again if you want.
Also, the whole of CCP is not spread working on DUST, Eve and Incarna, but also World of Darkness in Atlanta.
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Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2010.07.12 15:16:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
OPF:DR (Codemasters version of OFP2)
Released with only P2P game hosting (as DUST will likely be)
60% discounted 2 weeks after release.
Community sites closed 3 weeks after release.
The controls in ofp2 suck so hardcore. I got that game over the weekend for the hell of it and they tried to make a Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter knockoff and failed miserably.
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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Sealiah
Minmatar
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2010.07.12 15:19:00 -
[95]
DUST is a game that will have to be a block buster like conuter strike, so people will continue playing the game in big numbers in 2015, 2020 and many years later. I think that's the biggest problem of the game. If it just lasts a year or two, what will happen with EVE? All the planetary interaction will again remain not conquerable? Or will there be stupid situations like single soldiers conquering entire planets?
I see no other way of keeping it up unless EVE players will be able to enter dust and just fight on the ground... But considering that it won't be available on PC (I hope they will change their minds) I really doubt many EVE players will go do PB <- Planetary Battles
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Kentonio
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Posted - 2010.07.13 13:18:00 -
[96]
I think people underestimate the number of Eve players who are also console shooter players. It's quite a lot incidentally.
That said, I think they missed a trick not making it a dual PC-Xbox release. Cross platform gaming is tricky as hell to get right, but considering the PC only nature of Eve, I think it would have been worth the (large) extra hassle.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.07.13 13:30:00 -
[97]
Quote:
OP fails to understand that it's CCP's China office wich is developing Dust, not CCP at Iceland or Atlanta.. And it has been doing that for, what, 3-4 years now..
What funds are being distracted off improving EvE and being tossed in tangent projects?
Those that come out of our pockets and CCP are spending them to make some console games instead of hiring a functioning team to fix 0.0 and FW embarassing lag.
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Lord Wamphyri
Amarr
Starside Lost
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Posted - 2010.07.13 13:51:00 -
[98]
My view on Dust?
Well it's actually very low in fat, so when you're on a diet and you're feeling a little peckish, you can have as much Dust as you like!
Sorry, I couldn't resist...
My EVE Tattoo!
My Second EVE Tattoo! |
Braskyte
StarShard Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.13 14:02:00 -
[99]
Dust 514- I think it will be an average shooter, maybe be close to MAG perhaps, but nothing special except its connection to EVE. Think of The Old Republic MMO by Bioware, where main feature is voiced story, but everything else is just copy/paste from other games so in Dust we get (I should say console fanboys) get the only unique thing, which is some kind of connection to EVE and everything else is just your average FPS. I would like to believe they will be innovative, but I doubt it.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.13 14:17:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
What funds are being distracted off improving EvE and being tossed in tangent projects?
Those that come out of our pockets and CCP are spending them to make some console games instead of hiring a functioning team to fix 0.0 and FW embarassing lag.
Welcome to software development, where the customers of the last product are the ones who are funding the development of the new product.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
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Gisou
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Posted - 2010.07.13 14:34:00 -
[101]
No interest in Dust. No interest in consoles. Like most guys over 30.
The only people expressing any enthusiasm for Dust are corp mates aged 18 to 25. Of those we're talking one or two with no sex life.
I can't see it working for CCP but then what do I know? If Dust was out for PC thus allowing me to play two kinds of EVE I would almost certainly look at it. But if it got be that I had to play two games to enjoy one (eve) I might soon lose interest in both. So all in all - Dust console? Sod that. Dust PC? Maybe.
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Henri Rearden
Gallente
XII Legion
Southern Connection
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Posted - 2010.07.13 15:34:00 -
[102]
I have to take issue with this oft-repeated fallacy. Just because those members of CCP who are working on Dust are located in different places doesn't mean that they don't consume financial resources from the parent umbrella company. For instance, say there are 50 people in Shanghai working on DUST. That means that money for equipment, facilities, and salaries for 50 people AREN'T being put into EVE, AREN'T being saved for a rainy day, etc.
Originally by: Sekretarka
Originally by: Amerilia
I hate DUST, for it drew the dev resources that could have been used on EVE. Just look at the last two expansions, theyre hollow. And PI can be coded quite fast if you have skilled programmers .
Furthermore I will likely never play it, since I dont own an XBox/PS3 and I doubt it will come out for Wii.
The Dust developers are separate team from eve developers. Only thing taking resources away from the usual expansions is Incarna!
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Cailais
Amarr
THE ORDAINED
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Posted - 2010.07.13 15:51:00 -
[103]
COD:MW2 Fail? Really!?
DUST514 has some unique advantages:
It's a FPS with an existing IP and potential fan base (EVE players).
It will have an unusual 'persistent' link with a persistent MMO.
It has the advantage of going to console and then (once that's burnt out) going to PC and then (once that's burnt out) being linked directly to the client (and potentially INCARNA).
Plenty of life in such a product.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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siC0 b0b
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Posted - 2010.07.13 17:37:00 -
[104]
u forgot to add Dust to the list
and yeah, considering they're sacrificing proper maintnence on their core game to release a ****ing online fps for a console, it's p fail
FPS gamers aren't rly nerds tbh, compare an fps and an mmo gamer and u'll go wtf was ccp thinkin
google tabula rasa
the gamespot part was bit harsh, but yeh it's proly true
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Nicholas Barker
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.13 17:51:00 -
[105]
If i started playing eve more, I'd probably just end up going between eve and dust all night if it was on PC.
But meh, mediocre console game.
------
0800-LAG-A-NODE
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Trokti
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.13 18:54:00 -
[106]
My opinion of dust:
not enough pc.. i want a pc conversion/playable version
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Dai Magnus
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Posted - 2010.07.13 19:07:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Dai Magnus on 13/07/2010 19:11:06
I play Halo 3 and MW2, and I have more than a few friends who are pretty dedicated FPS players. In my opinion the people who seem to enjoy online FPS the most and keep playing the longest seem to fall into 3 broad categories (not mutually exclusive):
1) People who have a dedicated group of friends they play with on a regular basis.
2) People who enjoy being ****s
3) People who love racking up kill stats/ranks
I think the one big thing going for Dust is just the idea that the fights actually matter, and can affect the Eve universe (even if most Dust players never dip into Eve itself). Think about it. A persistent FPS world where clans/guilds/squads/whatever of players can actually make substantial changes to the world offers the best opportunity for people to wave their e-peens. What better way for a group of FPS players to brag then say "Our army defeated this army and invaded this or such solar system", or "our band of mercenaries has taken over 5 planets single-handed"? For FPS players priding themselves on rank and rep, taking over a planet would be so much more dominating than a bunch of numbers (though there'd probably be stats too). Not to mention it might particularly catch people who enjoy FPS and RPGs - the same people with gamertags like SnipesBizznitch playing exclusively snipers would love the ego boost of being known as one of the best snipers for hire in the Dust universe.
Sure, the player base will never be as big as the massive frat-boy following of a game like Halo, but I'll bet it's going to be substantial. If Dust goes well it'll end up in much wider name recognition for Eve, even if most Dust players don't play Eve, and potentially more subscriptions, not to mention the rep CCP's going to earn in the gaming industry for actually pulling off a FPS-MMORPG connection. And seriously, I can't wait to see alliances start duking it out on the ground. I think it's a risk, but a good and well thought-out one.
As long as Dust is decently made, relatively free of major gameplay issues/bugs, and fun to play, it will hook every single dedicated FPS player who cares about online rankings, stats, or enjoys group role-playing.
Of course this is all assuming Dust integrates well with Eve and is actually a good FPS game. I'm assuming they wouldn't even try such a bold move if they weren't going to make a respectable effort, but... CCP, just know that if Dust ends up sucking you're going to have a looooooot of ****ed off Eve players looking for blood and some well-deserved updates.
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Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2010.07.13 19:11:00 -
[108]
I'm addicted to being an annoying **** in mw:2 :)
Dust seriously needs to come out on PC too, I'll be damned if I'm going to buy a console for 1 game, I don't like console gaming to begin with.
There are tons of EVE players like me I'm sure that don't own a console but REALLY want a chance to play Dust...tap the cash cow CCP and port to PC.
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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Billy Mole
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Posted - 2010.07.13 19:29:00 -
[109]
Ok, two points here. First, I myself am quite excited for Dust, doubly so given the gameplay trailers from fanfest. I loved C&C Renegade, mostly for the kill for money -> buy a better dude mechanic which seems to have fallen out of favor. From the trailers, it seems that Dust is going to be built on a similar concept, and I for one cannot wait.
Second, this thread is nothing more than another of the thousands of thinly (or not so thinly) veiled whines that flood the forums lately. Seriously, has everyone turned into an entitled WoW kiddie? If you don't like EvE as it is, then quit, it is wholly foolish to continue playing a game you don't like and hope that the developers fix it to your satisfaction. Are there things that can be improved? Yes, just like any other game out there. If your enjoyment of EvE is contingent on work being done on lag, UI, <insert random feature here>, then you should cancel your sub, and resub when they get around to fixing it. Or don't. Either way, these whine threads are getting very tiresome, and accomplish absolutely nothing.
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Shiala Maldoran
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Posted - 2010.07.13 19:48:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Danghor
Your view on Dust
Usually a vacumcleaner or a damp towel.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.13 19:51:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Tippia on 13/07/2010 19:51:36
Originally by: Barakkus
Dust seriously needs to come out on PC too, I'll be damned if I'm going to buy a console for 1 game, I don't like console gaming to begin with.
Then Dust isn't aimed at you.
Quote:
There are tons of EVE players like me I'm sure that don't own a console but REALLY want a chance to play Dust...
Since you already play EVE on the PC, you're not the target market.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
digitalwanderer
Gallente
DF0 incorporated
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Posted - 2010.07.13 20:11:00 -
[112]
Edited by: digitalwanderer on 13/07/2010 20:14:38
What if new consoles are released by 2012?...What happends to dust if it was made to run on the current X360 and PS3?.
the game uses the UT3 engine and i'm sure CCP will make it look as good as possible,but the fact is that battlefield bad company 2 is here and brings those destructible environments with it,which i've played and adds alot not just on the looks dept,but in the overall gameplay as well,such as punching holes in walls to make a path inside a building is fun.. .
Setting anti tank mines on holes that already have been damaged by artillery is awsome,as it makes them harder to see from the tank driver's point of view,or just simply shoot thru glass windoes to nail opponents,or even bring an entire building on top of enemy forces that are inside is awsome too.
Dust has to be a work of art to beat the above basically,an i'm not sure CCP can pull this off....Dice's frostbite graphics engine is awsome and better than the UT3 engine,which is already a few years old here,and there's still no mention of a UT4 graphics engine from Epic.
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Sekretarka
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Posted - 2010.07.14 13:36:00 -
[113]
Originally by: digitalwanderer
Edited by: digitalwanderer on 13/07/2010 20:14:38
What if new consoles are released by 2012?...What happends to dust if it was made to run on the current X360 and PS3?.
the game uses the UT3 engine and i'm sure CCP will make it look as good as possible,but the fact is that battlefield bad company 2 is here and brings those destructible environments with it,which i've played and adds alot not just on the looks dept,but in the overall gameplay as well,such as punching holes in walls to make a path inside a building is fun...
Setting anti tank mines on holes that already have been damaged by artillery is awsome,as it makes them harder to see from the tank driver's point of view,or just simply shoot thru glass windoes to nail opponents,or even bring an entire building on top of enemy forces that are inside is awsome too.
Dust has to be a work of art to beat the above basically,an i'm not sure CCP can pull this off....Dice's frostbite graphics engine is awsome and better than the UT3 engine,which is already a few years old here,and there's still no mention of a UT4 graphics engine from Epic.
New consoles are not coming out in 2012, both Sony and Microsoft said they want about 4 to 5 years more out of this generation.
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Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
The Jerk Cartel
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Posted - 2010.07.14 14:00:00 -
[114]
My view on dust is that it is a project that I am not interested in, being developed at the expense of the project I am paying CCP to develop for every month.
I consider this a mutation of "theft"
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Sader Rykane
Amarr
Midnight Sentinels
Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.07.14 14:11:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Amerilia
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Hmm... I'm rather surprised other eve player play S4.
Basically it is a bit like Unreal Tournament, quick fps, but you have lots of noobs to slaughter
I know what it is, I've been playing it for 2 years and I'm very, very good at DM.
Orca Pilot Sale |
MadManMaura
Amarr
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.07.14 14:19:00 -
[116]
there not making this a mmorpg which I think is a mistake as there going to have to release new versions every year with new abilities in order to keep it going.
I also dont like the idea of me having to depend on a bunch of fickle console gamers. what happens when ps3 or xbox come out witha there next generation does dust disapear until they create a new one for the new consoles?
Also I dont see how Dust can actually exist anyway, if I control the space above I would just pound insurgents to death below
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bustergonads
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Posted - 2010.07.14 14:24:00 -
[117]
Not interested in Dust or any other console game for that reason, hence i don't see why my or any other eve players subs should be spent on that game while this on is so buggy/laggy.
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Andrea Skye
Caldari
The Python Cartel.
The Jerk Cartel
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Posted - 2010.07.14 14:29:00 -
[118]
Well there guna be using my money to make Dust. Which would be cool...
IF THE GAME I PAY FOR DIDNT HAVE SO MANY ISSUES. USE MY MONEY TO FIX THE GAME I PLAY. NOT THE GAME IM PROBABLY NEVER GOING TO PLAY AS I HATE FPS's (mostly)
Eve has so many issues atm. And after reading the latest CSM thing about them not even looking at low sec for the next 18 MONTHS... i srsly wonder what i pay so much for.
Low sec needs help
- GCC needs reducing
- Risk/reward is not balanced. I spent about 5hours yesterday running an escalation. I made about 28 million isk from loot etc. Oh, and my ship got blown up, and the 28million barely paid for it. I could of just did missions in high sec on my alt and made double that, hell maybe even triple that.
- Pirates need an advantage. Low sec is our home yet we have no advantages to being there. We CANNOT enter high sec. So give us something in low sec.
- Hidden timers are still not working properly, how many times ive undocked with no timer, only to get shot by the gate guns... ive lost count.
- High sec PvP'er have so many advantages in OUR home (repping doesnt give GCC, sentries always help them, pirates cant use frigates/cruisers on gates)
- Theres no reason to go to low sec as a carebear.
The list is pretty long, and I could point out more, but I cba to type if you cba to even think about fixing it.
Fix the game your customers are paying for, before making some new **** thats probably guna fail anyway.
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Ophelia Ursus
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Posted - 2010.07.14 14:36:00 -
[119]
Own an xbox 360; not interested in Dust in the slightest, and have no confidence whatsoever that CCP are capable of delivering a product capable of competing in the console shooter market. Look at the level of polish applied to shooters that build and sustain large online playerbases - Left 4 Dead, TF2, the Halos, Modern Warfare 1 and 2 (and none of these charge subscription fees to play!). Then look at the level of polish applied to Eve. There is a difference.
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Auri Hella
Downwind Trading Guild
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Posted - 2010.07.14 14:43:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Andrea Skye
Fix the game your customers are paying for, before making some new **** thats probably guna fail anyway.
Basically.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.14 15:01:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Tippia on 14/07/2010 15:09:10
Originally by: Helicity Boson
My view on dust is that it is a project that I am not interested in, being developed at the expense of the project I am paying CCP to develop for every month.
I consider this a mutation of "theft"
No, it's software development. In fact, it's product development ù not just software. If you don't want "your" money to go into a company developing completely different products than the one you're using, you need to start considering moving out into the woods and growing your own cropsà
Originally by: bustergonads
Not interested in Dust or any other console game for that reason, hence i don't see why my or any other eve players subs should be spent on that game while this on is so buggy/laggy.
Because CCP have plans to exist as a company beyond the life-span of EVE.
Originally by: MadManMaura
there not making this a mmorpg which I think is a mistake as there going to have to release new versions every year with new abilities in order to keep it going.
How is this any different from any other modern FPS? At least with an MMOFPS, you can just constantly update it rather than re-release the same rehashed thing over and over again.
Quote:
I also dont like the idea of me having to depend on a bunch of fickle console gamers. what happens when ps3 or xbox come out witha there next generation does dust disapear until they create a new one for the new consoles?
Probably. Not that it matters since they've said from the get-go that you don't have to depend on them.
Quote:
Also I dont see how Dust can actually exist anyway, if I control the space above I would just pound insurgents to death below
RP-wise? You'd be hitting civilian installations, get branded as a war criminal and get your cloning status revoked by CONCORD. 
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
John Ellsworth
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.14 15:19:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Eric Policky
Originally by: Amerilia
I hate DUST, for it drew the dev resources that could have been used on EVE. Just look at the last two expansions, theyre hollow. And PI can be coded quite fast if you have skilled programmers .
Furthermore I will likely never play it, since I dont own an XBox/PS3 and I doubt it will come out for Wii.
I'd just like to point out that there is a chance that some or even most of the coding done for PI are not visible to us at this point because it has yet to be integrated with DUST. I'm not saying this is definitely the case, just that it might be.
Bingo was his name o
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bustergonads
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Posted - 2010.07.14 15:20:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Tippia
Because CCP have plans to exist as a company beyond the life-span of EVE.
All well and good but it doesn't mean they can continue to fleece their existing customers for two or more years with a broken product whilst they develop something new and shiny with their existing customers cash (a new shiny product that will end up just as broken if eve is anything to go by)
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.14 15:30:00 -
[124]
Originally by: bustergonads
All well and good but it doesn't mean they can continue to fleece their existing customers for two or more years with a broken product whilst they develop something new and shiny with their existing customers cash (a new shiny product that will end up just as broken if eve is anything to go by)
Actually, that's exactly what it means. 
It's not "our money" ù we've handed it over to them, and now it's theirs to spend as they see fit in the best interest of the company. One of those "best interests" is to ensure that they can deliver new products as the old onesà well, grow old. If they don't want to take massive loans (lol Iceland) or take the company public (investors are far more annoying than us forum whiners), guess who'll be providing the cashà?
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Cailais
Amarr
THE ORDAINED
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Posted - 2010.07.14 15:57:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: bustergonads
All well and good but it doesn't mean they can continue to fleece their existing customers for two or more years with a broken product whilst they develop something new and shiny with their existing customers cash (a new shiny product that will end up just as broken if eve is anything to go by)
Actually, that's exactly what it means.
It's not "our money" ù we've handed it over to them, and now it's theirs to spend as they see fit in the best interest of the company. One of those "best interests" is to ensure that they can deliver new products as the old onesà well, grow old. If they don't want to take massive loans (lol Iceland) or take the company public (investors are far more annoying than us forum whiners), guess who'll be providing the cashà?
Exactly. Its a model that works for businesses across the globe.
Quite why some of EVEs players think the 'rules' are somehow different for them/us and we have some entitlements I'm consistently confounded by.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Indy Dugg
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Posted - 2010.07.14 16:01:00 -
[126]
IDK why CCP wants to make Dust514 when they have to out do Halo, Killzone, Fallout 3, Bioshock and Call of Duty. It makes no sense. Eve has no competition atm and has enormous potential. WTF is CCP thinking. Im not intrested in another fps im intrested in space and spaceships.
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SammyullJackson
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Posted - 2010.07.14 16:09:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Indy Dugg
IDK why CCP wants to make Dust514 when they have to out do Halo, Killzone, Call of Duty
All games that have no significance beyond their own self-enclosed instances (IE every battle means nothing, it's just people shooting at each other for no particular reason)
Originally by: Indy Dugg
Fallout 3, Bioshock.
They don't have to outdo these games. Seeing as how they're single-player experiences and all.
Originally by: Indy Dugg
It makes no sense. Eve has no competition atm and has enormous potential. WTF is CCP thinking.
Hard as it may be to believe, there are people who see the ads for EVE on their forums and looking at ****, and think, "wow, internet spaceships, that looks cool!" but are unable to justify the subscription fee and/or can't get into the game. CCP wants to appeal to different audiences.
Originally by: Indy Dugg
Im not intrested in another fps im intrested in space and spaceships.
See last sentence. CCP doesn't care about people who want FPSs, they want to attract new crowds.
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ThisIsNotMyAlt
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Posted - 2010.07.14 16:10:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Indy Dugg
IDK why CCP wants to make Dust514 when they have to out do Halo, Killzone, Fallout 3, Bioshock and Call of Duty. It makes no sense. Eve has no competition atm and has enormous potential. WTF is CCP thinking. Im not intrested in another fps im intrested in space and spaceships.
they are not trying to make "just another fps". they are trying to make a persistant world fps mmo that is interlinked with an allready existing mmo(eve). something new, that had not been done before. at least not in the way ccp envisions it.
imagine when reynir set out to make eve online and then threw the idea over because people said "wah, not ANOTHER spaceship game, there is no market for this we allready got elite and the x:btf and wing commander" |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.14 16:10:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Tippia on 14/07/2010 16:11:16
Originally by: Indy Dugg
IDK why CCP wants to make Dust514 when they have to out do Halo, Killzone, Fallout 3, Bioshock and Call of Duty. It makes no sense. Eve has no competition atm and has enormous potential. WTF is CCP thinking. Im not intrested in another fps im intrested in space and spaceships.
For the same reason they're doing EVE rather than WoW ù the relationship is just about the same. They've been doing just fine for the last couple of years by explicitly not competing with the big names, but rather by doing their own thing. My guess is that they're hoping to do the same in the MMOFPS market.
edit: Damn! Beaten twice over. Bloody cookie-deletion delayà 
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Bernard Schuyler
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Posted - 2010.07.14 16:18:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 10/07/2010 08:56:33
What I fear most, is the connection between Dust and EVE. What will most likely happen is, that even when it is a good game console players will play it for a month or two and then throw it aside when next Call of Duty or Halo Title appears.
The game mechanic in connection to may fail because not enough attackers or defenders could be found for a planetary invasion, which in the end might cause an entire to campaign in EVE to fail.
I am sorry but console shooters are always on the short lived and short attention span side of gameplay and this does not mix well with EVE.
That is actually the beauty of this eneavor. Eve players are already generally dedicated now to set their alarm clocks for POS bashes and pay for multiple accounts for Alts and multiboxing.
FC: "OK, X up if you don't have (ship type for this Op)"
FC: "Right... OK, you guys stay on Vent and log into DUST..."
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Vaneshi SnowCrash
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Posted - 2010.07.14 16:19:00 -
[131]
It is worth noting that Unreal 2: The Awakening failed because 90% of it was lifted straight out of the original Unreal. Original had the Skarj (sp?) appear from the darkened corridor, U2 did the same with an elevator and dropped it on your head. Same ending (alone in an escape pod) and so on. It also wasn't the most stable of games and doesn't apparently like multi-core systems... released at the time the x2 and core duo were appearing... oopps.
But several of the games on the OP's list weren't huge hits, but they did get quite the fan following. Serious Sam springs to mind. So CCP probably isn't aiming at MW2, it's aiming at being Serious Sam... something that in 3 - 4 years post release a substantial number of people will still be playing.
Of course, as its connected to EVE and in EVE if you want something done right you usually end up having to do it yourself... there is already a substantial player base for Dust kicking around...
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Ryhss
Caldari
Ominous Corp
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Posted - 2010.07.14 16:24:00 -
[132]
My view on Dust, is it will not last. Console games have a shelf life of like 5 months. There are a few that stick, like HALO, but those are few and far between. I think it will sell great at first, then slowly die off.
Originally by: Abrazzar
I don't know what's going on but I am terribly upset about it.
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digitalwanderer
Gallente
DF0 incorporated
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Posted - 2010.07.14 17:11:00 -
[133]
That's what's bugging me a bit to be honest...Exactly how will dust be connected in any meaningfull way to Eve in a manner that Eve still influences actions and events on Dust and Dust also influences actions and events in eve itself....CCP is light on the details.
I can tell you one thing though,if it involves PI as the common point between both,and i have to spend isk to finance a defence team for my installations,i can assure you it'll never happen given the crappy profit that PI makes unless you have a lot more than 6 bases to work with here....For me at least,it isn't worth the effort and expense to protect them.
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.07.14 17:35:00 -
[134]
Originally by: digitalwanderer
That's what's bugging me a bit to be honest...Exactly how will dust be connected in any meaningfull way to Eve in a manner that Eve still influences actions and events on Dust and Dust also influences actions and events in eve itself....CCP is light on the details.
I can tell you one thing though,if it involves PI as the common point between both,and i have to spend isk to finance a defence team for my installations,i can assure you it'll never happen given the crappy profit that PI makes unless you have a lot more than 6 bases to work with here....For me at least,it isn't worth the effort and expense to protect them.
DW, a good point. I think it will depend on how the economy scales between DUST and EVE.
It is quite possible that one days profits from your PI operations could translate into what would be considered a very lucurative contract for DUST mercs.
If protecting/attacking PI assets translates to a very small cash outlay in EVE, and a couple of mouse clicks, I think it would be well worth the trouble... especially when you consider the comparative hassle of setting up new planets or giving up your small but steady background revenue.
Lets face it, it's not hard to pull in an easy 100/200 mil per week with PI... with the only investment after setup being a few minutes of clicking/hauling a day average. For many people that will be worth preserving as long as it is not prohibitively expensive or time consuming to do so.
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If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Vaneshi SnowCrash
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Posted - 2010.07.14 18:07:00 -
[135]
Originally by: digitalwanderer
I can tell you one thing though,if it involves PI as the common point between both,and i have to spend isk to finance a defence team for my installations,i can assure you it'll never happen given the crappy profit that PI makes unless you have a lot more than 6 bases to work with here....For me at least,it isn't worth the effort and expense to protect them.
This. I was given the impression that I'd have a region all of my own on a planet. Perhaps the size of a city, maybe larger (county?) and it'd be affected by others nearby and I could establish trade links with them and such if I wanted.
I'm not sure I really care enough about my little push pins enough to spend even 1 isk hiring a group of Dusties to fight off another group.
Plus what we've seen of Dust game play and what we currently have with PI... I'm just not seeing the connection.
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digitalwanderer
Gallente
DF0 incorporated
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Posted - 2010.07.14 20:40:00 -
[136]
Edited by: digitalwanderer on 14/07/2010 20:43:48
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: digitalwanderer
That's what's bugging me a bit to be honest...Exactly how will dust be connected in any meaningfull way to Eve in a manner that Eve still influences actions and events on Dust and Dust also influences actions and events in eve itself....CCP is light on the details.
I can tell you one thing though,if it involves PI as the common point between both,and i have to spend isk to finance a defence team for my installations,i can assure you it'll never happen given the crappy profit that PI makes unless you have a lot more than 6 bases to work with here....For me at least,it isn't worth the effort and expense to protect them.
DW, a good point. I think it will depend on how the economy scales between DUST and EVE.
It is quite possible that one days profits from your PI operations could translate into what would be considered a very lucurative contract for DUST mercs.
If protecting/attacking PI assets translates to a very small cash outlay in EVE, and a couple of mouse clicks, I think it would be well worth the trouble... especially when you consider the comparative hassle of setting up new planets or giving up your small but steady background revenue.
Lets face it, it's not hard to pull in an easy 100/200 mil per week with PI... with the only investment after setup being a few minutes of clicking/hauling a day average. For many people that will be worth preserving as long as it is not prohibitively expensive or time consuming to do so.
True,it is possible to pull that much with PI on a weekly basis,but keep in mind i can also do 100+ milion with 1 day of lvl 4 mission running too,and it doesn't involve watching over PI installations,or seeing how the fight is going between the people i hired to defend,and those that want to take control of it,which CCP also hasn't given any rough ideas on that aspect.
A cool way,though i doubt it'll ever be implemented,would be for me to send out a monitoring drone with a video camera and a video feed from the surface of the planet to my ship/pod,and i see in detail the actual fighting between both sides,thru a dedicated display,as well as what's been captured by the hostiles or what my own defence forces are doing and if i need to send in more reinforcements or not...Sort of like spectator mode in an FPS game where one can travel anywhere on the map and see what's happening in real time.....No more timers or any of that crap please.
Is it possible within the eve client to display a live video feed from the surface?,showing the actual combat and who's wining/losing,i don't know,but in the end,what exactly are the reprecussions on the eve side of things,i don't really know to be honest....PI would only become a lot more valuable than it is right now,if the end products(tech 1/tech 2/POS),need a lot more components/fuel that's only provided by PI once the NPC market completely dissapears....Then it becomes a sellers market.
Obviously the first consequence of this are people complaining why the end products are a lot more expensive....
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