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3xta5y
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Posted - 2010.07.11 10:23:00 -
[1]
Edited by: 3xta5y on 11/07/2010 10:24:47
So, I need to start my pvp career and have read various guides on tacticts and fittings etc. My problem now is where do I go? Join a player corp , RvB, FW or shpould I just try solo in losec?
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Eelis Kiy
Gallente
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.11 10:41:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Eelis Kiy on 11/07/2010 10:43:35
No one can answer that for you, you need to find out what will work for you personally. There are up sides and downs to all areas of pvp.
FW - can be lots of action, varying fleet sizes, easy access to high-sec providing you stick to shooting war targets. But lack of trust of new members who join is often high so can limit your fleet invites until people get to know you. You could join a player corp in FW but again you might need to spend some time in the NPC corp and get some kills before people trust you. If you stay in the NPC corp you can hop in and out of FW as you feel like it and ofc if you want to solo there is nothing to stop you fitting out cheap ships and going for a roam on your own. You will find yourself restricted to friendly high-sec also (ie if you join Gallente militia then Amarr and Caldari high-sec will have npcs that shoot you if you visit 0.5 or above).
RvB - probably more supportive, corp environment and pvp is a little more controlled but possibly less "real". Might be a nice place to start out. (not been in RvB myself btw)
Join a corp - well what sort of corp? A pirate corp? a merc corp? High sec war deccers? Again, its an open ended question really.
What sort of thing do you want?
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>>where the frack is my ship?<< |
Jason filigree
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Posted - 2010.07.11 10:55:00 -
[3]
I have been thinking along the same lines.
What is RvB. I have herd them mentioned a fiew times but always with the assumption everybody new what was being discussed.
Edward
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omgevenmoarfreemoniez
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Posted - 2010.07.11 11:11:00 -
[4]
RvB is two corps with constant wardecs against each other. The corps members can either fight in 2 systems, or for preference hunt people down when they're trying to carebear to afford to PvP, since for some reason they often don't expect that.
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Odvian
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Posted - 2010.07.11 11:25:00 -
[5]
RvB = Red V Blue.
there is a topic about it some place. use the search function to find it, or mabe somone may have a bm of it and can share it with. you.
i tried FW for a bit on the mini side and dint like it it was noting but blob warfare and Lagg. i have Not tried RvB my self but have heard noting but good things about it.
solo starting out your gona loose a lota ships until you get to know what u did wrong, if u do this route convo who you faugth and ask them what u did wrong and if they could offer some pointers.
failing that look at EVE uni i beleave they do pvp training but ive no idea how good or bad it is.
best of luck.
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ViXen V
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Posted - 2010.07.11 12:14:00 -
[6]
You should start with rvb.
Seriously.
Rvb offers hassle free, no obligation, cheap, interesting and
Well organised pvp on a daily if not hourly pvp.
No corp politics, no loss of standings...
Once you are sick of that, move on to a wardec corp, pirate corp
or possible a nulsec corp.
Alternatively fly in lowsec with no intention of returning. Rinse and repeat.
Gl
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Hidden Snake
Caldari
Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.07.11 13:58:00 -
[7]
try FW or RvB ... RvB is more easier. FW can be tough nutt in the beginning but is king of the fun once you get in.
"There is no honor in war" |
Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2010.07.11 17:54:00 -
[8]
I'd suggest trying a bit of everything as that will eventually make you a much better player.
To start off you don't have to join anything. I started PVPing by sitting out side busy trade hubs and popping can's and re-naming them 1vs1 frig fights.
You run into a lot of homos and Docking-Bears but it's a very easy way to learn the basics of soloing and allows you to get tons of fights and gives you easy access to new ships.
It's also very unlikely that you will be podded, so your implants are safe. If they pod you they get concorded.
RvB & FW are two different animals and each will teach you a bit of something. For my self, RvB was far too limiting on the "hunt". IMO it's the next step up above popping cans and getting stations fights. Close to what high sec war dec's are but lacking all the gayness that comes with them. (ie neutral logistics and so forth)
FW, is really hit or miss. You have many more targets with more risk, but you will often get blobbed to hell. FW will likely teach you more than the other two because it's a bit tougher (assuming to stay away from the blobs). FW also gives you more real world PVP experience for later moving on to Piracy or null sec.
My suggestion is follow a progression and don't expect to learn everything from one place.
Start out doing station fights, move on the RVB, then move on to FW. From there you can move on to Piracy or null or just stay in FW and do both Piracy & null sec roams. 
The key is diversity, as that will make you a better PVPer.
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Purple Warlock
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Posted - 2010.07.12 03:30:00 -
[9]
like the guys above me said there are a lot of ways to pvp and to learn how to do it, I would try a bit of everything you can always quit and try the next thing. I started pvping by signing up with a low sec pirate corp knowing NOTHING about PVP and i dont think i came out that bad of a pvp pilot so its just a matter of what you would like to do. worst case you can just blindly point and say this.
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Cattegirn
Rampant SR
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Posted - 2010.07.12 03:35:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Cattegirn on 12/07/2010 03:35:34
+1 more for RvB -- a good place to start.
Rampant |
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Abram Thrust
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.07.12 16:25:00 -
[11]
if you're bone-new at it, RvB's a great place to start.
and in a week, or a month, or whenever, if you decide you want to move on to "real" PvP, you can leave and do that no problem
it's a relatively safe, cheap and comittment-free place to come and get your feet wet. And especially if you mention that you're new at this, there's lots of folks in each corp that'll give you a hand.
only requirement:
-we're in 0.9 and 0.8 gallente space, so you need sec status/standings enough to not get shot at by the local NPC's
otherwise join the ingame channel "R-V-B" and ask around
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Tigobitty
Caldari
Australian Mining and industry Corp
Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2010.07.12 18:39:00 -
[12]
RvB is a blast from what I hear..
There are also some really good training courses by the likes of Agony Empire, and Eve University.
Good Hunting!
Oh... Shameless plug... Continuity Holdings is recruiting! |
Malaclypse Muscaria
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Posted - 2010.07.12 19:15:00 -
[13]
I haven't tried RvB myself (yet - I'm about to put a new alt there just to check things out after all the good things I keep hearing about it), but my experience with FW has been both good and bad: the latter being about the blobbiness and mindlessly following an FC in a large fleet system after system for hours, with the action either being way too short-lived to even get a glimpse of it, or a major lag-fest before you emerge in your pod without even knowing how the hell did that happen (although I've had good experiences too, and you get to learn about fleet ops and so on). Even if you are not a FW militia member, you can still go to plexes (and FW mission sites) looking for some action, though.
If you are social join a pirate corp, but otherwise you can just move somewhere in low-sec of your liking, grab some frigs / cruisers, and start having fun on your own. It requires patience though, as well as learning the map, regional routes and systems where action is likely to be found, gates that are likely to be camped, other residents in the area, recognizing baits, hunting down targets, plus a long etcetera... it takes time and effort to figure all this out by yourself, but it will be very rewarding and fun if you stick to it.
Some systems are notorious for being infested with pirate activity (Amamake, Egglehende, Old Man Star, etc...) and where it's easy to find fights, albeit with the risk you'll get blobbed.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.12 19:27:00 -
[14]
RVB provides what I think is the single most valuable skill in PVP. Calmness under fire.
I for one know that when I first started PvPing I was so adrenaline flushed that I most certainly was not effective. My hands were shaking and I forgot pretty much everything except to turn on my guns (and I know people who even forgot that) forget about manual flying or optimal orbits or overheating or any of the endless litany of things that matter in combat.
After 2 and a half months in RVB I go into combat perfectly relaxed and thinking about what needs to be done to succeed. I can manage my cap and heat I optimize distance and manual fly when needed.
I'm convinced that the only thing that developes that particular skill is combat and lots of it. And that is the one thing that RVB generally provides far in excess of other options (particularly for the newbie).
I know a lot of people claim that it's not real PVP and admittedly it is missing some aspects of non-RVB PVP then again the same can be said of low sec compared to null. Or FW compared to High Sec War Deccing.
Each flavor of PVP in EVE has it's own unique meta aspects and particular quirks but they all have at their core the basic combat skills that one can gain and perfect in RVB which will provide a sound foundation upon which to build addition skills.
It's relatively economical I dislike saying cheap since one different people have their own subjective definitions and unlike other PVP options there aren't any built in revenue streams (unless you are a super loot *****) You can expect to spend 6-8 million for a properly fit Frigate and 20-30 for a Cruiser which are the most commonly used hulls. Some people try to fly cheap unrigged ships but I generally recommend against doing so since it leads a high proportion of losses and will generally earn you a spot at the top of the primary list as people learn you fly lolfits. Sure you won't be losing much isk but it's hard to really improve when you are out 10 seconds into every fight.
That is however generally cheap compared to Null which I understand tends to be far more BS heavy or low which is mostly BC and T2 ships.
The only difference between RVB and other High Sec PVP is that we have rules against podding, Midslot ECM and Neutral RR (when fighting the Opposing team no such restrictions apply to the 3rd party WTs who like to come down and play with us), we honor 1v1's (it's actually one of our few rules) and we generally try to keep arranged battles even as far as numbers and fleet composition (Hull classes)go.
The most common hulls flown are T1 frigs and cruisers though you will see just about everything that can fly in High Sec.
My advise is to bring lots of isk and a good attitude. Also a neutral alt to do your shopping is also a good idea.
Expect to lose a lot of ships when you first start since as a newbie you'll tend to get primaried a lot as people test your mettle and determine what you fly (a good reason to start with good fits).
For the most part even the Blue s****tend to be pretty cool and it's not uncommon for us to swap pilots from one fleet to another in order to get fights going when one side of the other is lacking in active pilots.
I personally am enjoying the heck out of my stay in RVB and highly recommend it as a great place to learn.
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Socio Stan
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Posted - 2010.07.13 00:57:00 -
[15]
Hulkageddon is a good place to find PvP, give that a try. |
siC0 b0b
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Posted - 2010.07.13 04:47:00 -
[16]
FW is alright if you just run plexes in losec solo. I'd suggest just reading a good guide on piracy, buying like 20 frigates and going lowsec.
You can do RvB or you can have an FC babysit you 24/7 in FW or eveuni but that won't teach more than you've learned running missions or doing adv military tut. RvB will teach you amaizing things like shooting others so yeah, it's **** for someone who wants to actually learn something. Others might tell you different but they proly can't even use a dir scan.
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Dotard
Minmatar
Com-Star
SOLARIS - SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2010.07.13 10:09:00 -
[17]
Starting out with reading a guide is a good idea, you need to know some theory to turn it into praxis. But guides only take you so far. At some point you will just have to fit your fully insured T1 frig/cruiser/BC and move into 00 or lowsec. I recommend lowsec, as there are no bubbles and if you don't want to fight "right now", you can avoid that. In general I would highly recommend an alt scouting for you, especially if you don't know the area and the people living in it. I also strongly recommend finding a pvp corp. If you are new to pvp it is very very hard to have success in the beginning. Forget the romantic stories of giving a rifter to a 1mil SP char and starting to own people. If at all this only applies to experienced players starting over.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.13 13:59:00 -
[18]
 Originally by: siC0 b0b
FW is alright if you just run plexes in losec solo. I'd suggest just reading a good guide on piracy, buying like 20 frigates and going lowsec.
You can do RvB or you can have an FC babysit you 24/7 in FW or eveuni but that won't teach more than you've learned running missions or doing adv military tut. RvB will teach you amaizing things like shooting others so yeah, it's **** for someone who wants to actually learn something. Others might tell you different but they proly can't even use a dir scan.
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Yuddhisthira
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Posted - 2010.07.13 23:42:00 -
[19]
Originally by: 3xta5y
My problem now is where do I go? Join a player corp, RvB, FW or shpould I just try solo in losec?
Joining a player corp is pretty much mandatory for getting the most out of EvE. It's an MMO, after all. You'll most likely need to join a few corps before you find the one that works for you, but then you'll really have a blast. There's just no substitute for having a few good mates watching your back, and in EvE the sad truth is that PvP is numbers game, so there's little you can without those mates. While it's possible to find solo fights, it's just not bloody likely, so you'll get frustrated a lot if you solo for very long.
RvB also sounds like a great option since you're not already in a corp. As Skex Relbore pointed out, to get good at PvP you need lots and lots of practice. You need to reach the point where you're calm under fire so you can do the right thing at the right time, rather than overlook things or make mistakes in the heat of the battle. You also need to get to know your ship very very well: what it can and can't do, what ships it can (and can't) take on, how well it performs with certain fits, the advantages and disadvantages of various fits, etc.
One suggestion I'll add is to regularly use Singularity, aka SiSi, EvE's test server. Details and access instructions are available here. The reason SiSi is useful for someone wanting to get good at PvP: in the FD-MLJ system CCP has setup 10 or so free-for-all arenas where we can pummel each other into space dust to our hearts' content. They're classified by ship size, so you'll mostly be fighting ships of a similar class, and you'll quite often find great one-on-one fights (the blob is alive and well on SiSi, but in my experience I'm fighting 1v1 much more often than not). If you lose you just dock up, put together another ship, and you're back for another fight in a matter of minutes. Since everything on SiSi costs 100 ISK, you buy hundreds of ships and mods in advance, and with saved fittings you just click "fit" to put together a new ship. Podding is forbidden, so that's one less thing to get in the way.
I would venture to say that a few hours of non-stop bare-knuckle PvP on SiSi are probably worth a few weeks of play on Tranquility, mainly because of the repetition factor: getting good at PvP requires doing it over and over until certain things become second nature, until you're able to be calm under fire, and until you know your ships (and fittings) well. With the ease of getting (good) fights, of getting back onto the field after a loss, and with the variety of ships you'll go up against, SiSi is a pretty ideal place to hone your PvP combat skills and to keep them sharp. It's not the end-all be-all of PvP, obviously, just a great tool for getting good at some of the nuts and bolts of PvP.
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Aiwha
Caldari
101st Space Marine Force
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.07.14 00:41:00 -
[20]
RvB's a wonderful way to get your feet wet. Information is valuable, but its nothing compared to actual experience, and RvB offers a nice controlled environment for it.
From there, you can either move into FW, highsec wardecing corps, Merc work, lowsec pirates, or 0.0 warfare corps as you please. They're all fun in their own ways.
I cannot heal stupid. |
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siC0 b0b
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Posted - 2010.07.14 04:43:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Skex Relbore
I'm mostly convinced all this "fit 20 rifters and go get blown up in low sec" crap is just a bunch of low sec dwellers looking for easy kills.
It's personal experience, actually. To alot of people too, you're only insuilting yourself with that statement.
If you care, you can tell me how is "we've got a Cruiser/frig fleet out find us" not an arrangement? Beside this, the "actual combat skills" or whatever you call it are an alot smaller part of PvP in this game than you think.
RvB is only a delay in learning for new players. It's mostly even worse, because it teaches them wrong habbits and doesn't prepare for what's actaually going on outside of your little playground. If you want to say "come and have fun" then it's fine, but don't bull**** people that it's a good way to learn PvP.
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2010.07.14 05:28:00 -
[22]
Originally by: siC0 b0b
Originally by: Skex Relbore
I'm mostly convinced all this "fit 20 rifters and go get blown up in low sec" crap is just a bunch of low sec dwellers looking for easy kills.
It's personal experience, actually. To alot of people too, you're only insuilting yourself with that statement.
If you care, you can tell me how is "we've got a Cruiser/frig fleet out find us" not an arrangement? Beside this, the "actual combat skills" or whatever you call it are an alot smaller part of PvP in this game than you think.
RvB is only a delay in learning for new players. It's mostly even worse, because it teaches them wrong habbits and doesn't prepare for what's actaually going on outside of your little playground. If you want to say "come and have fun" then it's fine, but don't bull**** people that it's a good way to learn PvP.
Yet another person on his high horse educating the "ignorant" on what is and is not PvP.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.14 06:42:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Skex Relbore on 14/07/2010 06:43:20
Originally by: siC0 b0b
Originally by: Skex Relbore
I'm mostly convinced all this "fit 20 rifters and go get blown up in low sec" crap is just a bunch of low sec dwellers looking for easy kills.
It's personal experience, actually.
Which quite frankly means jack all coming from an anonymous forum alt.
Post with your main that has the combat record to back up your smack. As it stands here I see a guy with a whopping 2 kills to his credit (assuming you are siCo sAviOr which I'm guessing is you due to the picture)
In a professional military we don't hand a new recruit a rifle and a box of ammo then drop them into a combat zone to "learn as they go" we train them in controlled environments so that when they do go into actual combat they don't have to think about the basic **** like how to aim and shoot.
This is a tried and true way to build effective combat troops that has been used for a couple thousand years now with great success. Talented amateurs never match trained troops in effectiveness.
Yes I get it there is a lot more to PVP in this game than just orbit and activate guns. I even get that there are a lot of skills that I'm not gaining in RVB that will be needed in low sec just as there are skills needed to succeed in null sec that you don't get in low sec where you don't have to worry about bubbles. So what? I'll learn those skills when I get to it. At least when I do I'll not have to be trying to learn the basics of effective combat at the same time. I'll already have a good familiarity with the majority of the ships available in the game and their capabilities. I'll know how to fly and fit my own ships effectively. I'll understand aggression mechanics and how they affect combat. I'll know what ships to primary first and what ones should be ignored I'll know the obvious bait and be able to recognize and avoid most traps.
What I also know is that trial and error is not the most effective way to learn how to do something, which is basically what "buy 20 rifters and get blown up" boils down to.
The most effective way to learn a subject is to work on small digestible segments gaining competence in each then building upon that knowledge to progress to greater skill by the working on the next small digestible bit.
A RVB vet isn't going to panic the first time they see a red pop up on their overview they're going to be able to judge quickly what their options are whether or not they have a reasonable chance of success or if they need to and have the opportunity to GTFO. They aren't going to break and run the first time they get primaried in a gang and they most certainly won't be afraid of losing a ship.
All that knowledge and skills that those newbies who take the "buy 20 rifters and get blown up" won't have.
Like I've said before I don't for a moment pretend that RVB isn't different from other PVP in EVE. But it's not as different as you seem to think.
It is obvious from what you post that you don't have the first clue what we do or how we do it.
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siC0 b0b
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Posted - 2010.07.14 06:47:00 -
[24]
Originally by: James Tritanius
Yet another person on his high horse educating the "ignorant" on what is and is not PvP.
I think what you meant to say was:
"I only have second hand information regarding RvB, but from what I hear, not all the skills you develop there will be transferable to the PvP you would encounter in my neck of the woods."
Which is much more polite, and more aligned to your actual beliefs.
"my corp got deced once n i was roaming in losec wid my mates n died, losec is empty n broken ull get kils in rvb, its the best way 2 learn, n we dont use ewar n u undoc and can fite insta, u kil enemies so its totaly pvp"
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2010.07.14 07:03:00 -
[25]
Originally by: siC0 b0b
Originally by: James Tritanius
Yet another person on his high horse educating the "ignorant" on what is and is not PvP.
I think what you meant to say was:
"I only have second hand information regarding RvB, but from what I hear, not all the skills you develop there will be transferable to the PvP you would encounter in my neck of the woods."
Which is much more polite, and more aligned to your actual beliefs.
"my corp got deced once n i was roaming in losec wid my mates n died, losec is empty n broken ull get kils in rvb, its the best way 2 learn, n we dont use ewar n u undoc and can fite insta, u kil enemies so its totaly pvp"
That has to be the weakest straw-man ever. Do you even try? 
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siC0 b0b
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Posted - 2010.07.14 10:41:00 -
[26]
gz on that p much means u have nothing to say.
Originally by: Skex Relbore
Post with your main that has the combat record to back up your smack. As it stands here I see a guy with a whopping 2 kills to his credit (assuming you are siCo sAviOr which I'm guessing is you due to the picture)
el oh el mate, sincerest gz on finding my scout alt, now do urself a favor check his date of birth, date of killmails and what i was flying and stop embarassing urself in the first lines of ur tl;dr posts
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Marz Ghola
Minmatar
Royal Order of Security Specialists
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Posted - 2010.07.14 12:08:00 -
[27]
Gist of post so far. Smack to be had in all avenues of eve, WELCOME!
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.14 12:14:00 -
[28]
Originally by: siC0 b0b
gz on that p much means u have nothing to say.
Originally by: Skex Relbore
Post with your main that has the combat record to back up your smack. As it stands here I see a guy with a whopping 2 kills to his credit (assuming you are siCo sAviOr which I'm guessing is you due to the picture)
el oh el mate, sincerest gz on finding my scout alt, now do urself a favor check his date of birth, date of killmails and what i was flying and stop embarassing urself in the first lines of ur tl;dr posts
Oh look more smack still no substance.
You lack credibility. I've been around MMO's for a while and what I see here is another scrub with the whole "my main is a max level uber guy and will kick your ass"
Once again until you grow a pair and post with your main saying "I'm siCO" so we can look at your combat record and see if you are as good as you claim, people are left to judge you based on the information available. Which is that your combat experience boils down to 2 kills where it appears you managed to ***** in on someone else's work.
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Nursultan
Pyrotechnics Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.14 15:15:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Skex Relbore
Edited by: Skex Relbore on 14/07/2010 06:43:20
Originally by: siC0 b0b
Originally by: Skex Relbore
I'm mostly convinced all this "fit 20 rifters and go get blown up in low sec" crap is just a bunch of low sec dwellers looking for easy kills.
It's personal experience, actually.
Which quite frankly means jack all coming from an anonymous forum alt.
Post with your main that has the combat record to back up your smack. As it stands here I see a guy with a whopping 2 kills to his credit (assuming you are siCo sAviOr which I'm guessing is you due to the picture)
In a professional military we don't hand a new recruit a rifle and a box of ammo then drop them into a combat zone to "learn as they go" we train them in controlled environments so that when they do go into actual combat they don't have to think about the basic **** like how to aim and shoot.
This is a tried and true way to build effective combat troops that has been used for a couple thousand years now with great success. Talented amateurs never match trained troops in effectiveness.
Yes I get it there is a lot more to PVP in this game than just orbit and activate guns. I even get that there are a lot of skills that I'm not gaining in RVB that will be needed in low sec just as there are skills needed to succeed in null sec that you don't get in low sec where you don't have to worry about bubbles. So what? I'll learn those skills when I get to it. At least when I do I'll not have to be trying to learn the basics of effective combat at the same time. I'll already have a good familiarity with the majority of the ships available in the game and their capabilities. I'll know how to fly and fit my own ships effectively. I'll understand aggression mechanics and how they affect combat. I'll know what ships to primary first and what ones should be ignored I'll know the obvious bait and be able to recognize and avoid most traps.
What I also know is that trial and error is not the most effective way to learn how to do something, which is basically what "buy 20 rifters and get blown up" boils down to.
The most effective way to learn a subject is to work on small digestible segments gaining competence in each then building upon that knowledge to progress to greater skill by the working on the next small digestible bit.
A RVB vet isn't going to panic the first time they see a red pop up on their overview they're going to be able to judge quickly what their options are whether or not they have a reasonable chance of success or if they need to and have the opportunity to GTFO. They aren't going to break and run the first time they get primaried in a gang and they most certainly won't be afraid of losing a ship.
All that knowledge and skills that those newbies who take the "buy 20 rifters and get blown up" won't have.
Like I've said before I don't for a moment pretend that RVB isn't different from other PVP in EVE. But it's not as different as you seem to think.
It is obvious from what you post that you don't have the first clue what we do or how we do it.
I'm not siC0 b0b but I started my PVP career by going into lowsec in a frigate and looking for people to kill.
Haven't done RvB or FW so won't compare but I think solo belt piracy is a good way to learn PVP. |
Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.14 16:04:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Nursultan
I'm not siC0 b0b but I started my PVP career by going into lowsec in a frigate and looking for people to kill.
Haven't done RvB or FW so won't compare but I think solo belt piracy is a good way to learn PVP.
See now this is what one calls a credible source.
(Impressive combat record btw I'll have to look at your loss mails for fitting ideas)
Also note how Nursultan makes his point without being insulting or talking about crap about something he isn't familiar with.
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