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Do capsuleer ships have crews? Apart from the capsuleer?

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Qoi New Eden Warriors	Posted - 2010.07.12 00:18:00 - [31] Originally by: Bilko Bobski That's just my idea of it, but taking the chronicles into account it makes sense. Yes, but the number is a bit low http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=14-07-05 Quote: Four months later, Daren Athaksis was confirmed as one of six-thousand three-hundred and fourteen reported casualties resulting from the destruction of the Apocalypse-class battleship "Dam-Imud." His post was filled within three days. His family was not notified.
Kesta Sovek Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.07.12 00:20:00 - [32] Capsule ships do have crew according to the chronicles. I'll link a couple of the ones that talk about it. http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=14-07-05 http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=20-04-09
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2010.07.12 01:51:00 - [33] Edited by: Nova Fox on 12/07/2010 01:54:48 Edited by: Nova Fox on 12/07/2010 01:52:14 I wonder why andriod workers are prohibited oh yeah, the Gallente go figure. On another note, if we are so far ahead in technology to have an entire ship crewless why in the hell do you need a pod pilot still? Do remember we have hit a reset button for humanity in new eden not to long ago, possibly twice or three times. Regardless our current space faring is only a few hundred years old and all the technocrats are more worried about having a ship that is functionally better than the other guys, crewless is an option they choose not to take because humans are by far dime a dozen in this galaxy now in some cases CHEAPER than dirt. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 24FEB10
Kyra Felann Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.07.12 02:25:00 - [34] See my sig. -----SIGNATURE----- Originally by: CCP Ginger Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
Qolde Minmatar art of eve Gunmen of the Apocalypse	Posted - 2010.07.12 03:27:00 - [35] I like the idea that every time I kill or lose a battleship, thousands of people die. The technology level in EVE isn't much different from Star Trek, or Star Wars, and the ships in those series had crews. Also, there is nothing that can be built that will not decay. Sure things may be preserved for a while, but eventually, dust and moth do destroy. Hence we need maintenance men for the maintenance bots that repair the maintenance bots that take care of the gun bots. Considering the size of these ships, and the effects of travelling at such extreme speeds, and in such harsh environments, 6k people for a battleship sounds fair. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Himnos Altar Gallente	Posted - 2010.07.12 05:10:00 - [36] lol....OP, are you the guy from that crappy "EVE in Second Life" Youtube video who was insisting that EVE ships had no crews?
FinnAgain Zero Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.12 05:18:00 - [37] Originally by: Tavin Aikisen Search for 'Project Athena'. Someone cited a lot of technical details, including crew compliments, for several ships. A nice read. It's somewhat accurate, but fictional.
Ontaku Oroa Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.07.12 07:45:00 - [38] Fictional, but very well done. Crew count is a bit high in my opinion, but only for frigates. The biggest trouble with maintaining suspension of disbelief re. crew numbers is with frigates since many of their models have clearly mixed up **pit and window scale. Either you have extremely small windows or extremely large **pits on most frigates. Personally I think that you should play the way it makes sense for you. CCP left things muddy enough for that to be possible, depending on what you're trying to do. So your ship is entirely rigged to be run by robots? Fine. I don't use pods and play poker with my command crew when afk cloaked in an enemy system, nice to meet you. Just be prepared for some people to get slightly hysterical when they hear you talk about it.
Jagga Spikes Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop	Posted - 2010.07.12 08:35:00 - [39] what's the point of all the skill training, if i have to hire crew? couldn't i just hire crew to drive the ship for me? ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon."
Ontaku Oroa Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.07.12 09:02:00 - [40] A captain has to know every bolt and every weld on his ship. ;) Skill training is there to help you command your ships more effectively, not to enable you to do every single thing yourself. As someone already said, you need people to clean out space rats from conduits. A captain doesn't have to know how to properly disassemble and maintain a XT-9000 Cruise Missile Launcher, but he does have to know what that launcher is capable of, how it operates etc. Which is where Missile Launcher Operation skill comes in.

Nicole Brannaghan	Posted - 2010.07.12 09:03:00 - [41] Fun feeling, to be responsible for the deaths of millions and millions of crew (own and enemy) in 0.0 and FW space.
Jagga Spikes Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop	Posted - 2010.07.12 09:13:00 - [42] Edited by: Jagga Spikes on 12/07/2010 09:13:31 Originally by: Ontaku Oroa A captain has to know every bolt and every weld on his ship. ;) Skill training is there to help you command your ships more effectively, not to enable you to do every single thing yourself. As someone already said, you need people to clean out space rats from conduits. ... but if i'm filthy rich, what capsuleers are supposed to be, why i can't hire a command crew, like there is on non-capsuleer ships to drive it for me? i could just safely sit in my pod, and twiddle my thumbs. or something. it's either that. OR my capsuleer skills actually allow me to cover all aspects of decision making that goes on ship, and all execution is left to AIs, while simple tasks are relegated to simpler programs and robots. there can't be both. either there is need for crew, or there isn't. edit: typo ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon."
Takashi Halamoto No Limit Productions Looney Toons.	Posted - 2010.07.12 09:14:00 - [43] also even not counting the rogue drone issue there is another reason why robotic extra crew would be undesirable people prefer to think people are doing a job thats important to their life (even if people are less skilled) right now there is no reason why trains (specially underground/metro) need drivers, infact the docklands light railway in london only has a man to check tickets and press the button to close the doors, it dosnt need him but people wouldnt be happy without a human involved somewhere, the minmatar probably lack the computing and technical skills to build robotic crew the amarr prefer slaves/probably heresy to use bots the caldari go for cheapest option and have vast workforce's to employ the galliente made the rogue drones all have a reason to be somewhat uncomfortable or unable to use the robots option, also from the novels (ive read Empyrean age and Burning Life) depending on quality of ship warp travel is unpleasant to uncomfortable if your not in a pod so if you dont care about the maintainance guys its all good as long as your ship isnt too badly maintained Me? im just sitting here,
My Postman	Posted - 2010.07.12 09:21:00 - [44] I was walking around in my Domi yesterday, in desperate search to find the cargo hanger to visit my exotic dancers. Could¦nt find the cargo bay, so no visit to my dancers. In fact i did¦nt see anyone hanging around. Now i can¦t find the bridge anymore. I¦m not lost in space but in my Domi. And i feel very lonesome now.
Caroll Yanaki Gallente Stir Crazy Research and Manufacturing Externus Hostis	Posted - 2010.07.12 09:31:00 - [45] Edited by: Caroll Yanaki on 12/07/2010 09:32:52 Edited by: Caroll Yanaki on 12/07/2010 09:32:32 Originally by: Nova Fox Edited by: Nova Fox on 12/07/2010 01:54:48 Edited by: Nova Fox on 12/07/2010 01:52:14 I wonder why andriod workers are prohibited oh yeah, the Gallente go figure. On another note, if we are so far ahead in technology to have an entire ship crewless why in the hell do you need a pod pilot still? Do remember we have hit a reset button for humanity in new eden not to long ago, possibly twice or three times. Regardless our current space faring is only a few hundred years old and all the technocrats are more worried about having a ship that is functionally better than the other guys, crewless is an option they choose not to take because humans are by far dime a dozen in this galaxy now in some cases CHEAPER than dirt. The pod is the corner stone of the entire EVE universe. 1. It makes the immortality possible. 2. It protects the pilot from the impossible G-Force conditions when he travels with FTL speeds. 3. It nourishes the pilot and recycles all his body wastes. It's a complete closed cycle (it feeds you with your urine, sweat and poop). 4. Most important - it is constructed to serve as a neural interface with the vessel the pilot controls. So... Considering its most advanced nature, the pod itself allows the pilot to have a total control over a space craft, no mater its size and function. That's why we are demigods, elite, unique, etc. And all those mega corporations that rule New Eden... Make their ISK servicing us - the pod pilots. We don't need anybody to help us pilot any ship in EVE Universe. We just need to pour the necessary skills into our bolted, hard-wired heads, just like Neo learned kung fu in the Matrix. Do you really thing that beings capable of learning to fly massive Battleships need crew? I don't think so.
Ontaku Oroa Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.07.12 09:35:00 - [46] Originally by: Jagga Spikes but if i'm filthy rich, what capsuleers are supposed to be, why i can't hire a command crew, like there is on non-capsuleer ships to drive it for me? i could just safely sit in my pod, and twiddle my thumbs. or something. it's either that. OR my capsuleer skills actually allow me to cover all aspects of decision making that goes on ship, and all execution is left to AIs, while simple tasks are relegated to simpler programs and robots. Look, as I said, Eve fiction is undefined/broad enough so that you can construct "something special" for yourself and still maintain the suspension of disbelief, like your ships are maintained entirely by robots. Its all in your head anyway - I play as if I don't use pods. Just accept that whatever you play is not in official cannon, don't try to impose your vision on others and you're golden. The idea of capsule tech is that it enables the captain to expedite the command process. Instead of yelling dramatically at your weapons officer to "fire all weapons, dammit!", you just think it and off they go. So your ship is faster and more effectove at whatever it does.
Der Verrater Gallente	Posted - 2010.07.12 09:41:00 - [47] Originally by: Caroll Yanaki Do you really thing that beings capable of learning to fly massive Battleships need crew? I don't think so. That battleship however might need crew :P Originally by: Ontaku Oroa The idea of capsule tech is that it enables the captain to expedite the command process. Instead of yelling dramatically at your weapons officer to "fire all weapons, dammit!", you just think it and off they go. So your ship is faster and more effective at whatever it does. Thats roughly how its described in the books with repeated use of the word "willed". My 2 cents on this all is its up to you really, Im sure if we really needed an answer a dev could swan on in and tell us X Y and Z I like to think that my little frigate class ships and cruiser are serviced by drones and that i am the almighty Der Verrater :) ---- Bring Back Quafe Girl!
Ontaku Oroa Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.07.12 09:49:00 - [48] Originally by: Caroll Yanaki The pod is the corner stone of the entire EVE universe. 1. It makes the immortality possible. 2. It protects the pilot from the impossible G-Force conditions when he travels with FTL speeds. 3. It nourishes the pilot and recycles all his body wastes. It's a complete closed cycle (it feeds you with your urine, sweat and poop). 4. Most important - it is constructed to serve as a neural interface with the vessel the pilot controls. 1. Actually, cloning coupled with neural flashing is what makes immortality possible. Lately, advanced cloning techniques (jump cloning) don't even require pods to provide one with virtual immortality. 2. Nah, the ship inertia stabilizers do that, which is the same thing which protects the crew from impossible G-forces. The hydrostatic fluid dampens the effect so that the ride is actually comfortable, unlike for the rest of the crew. 3. True, true. Nasty stuff. :) Although I'd assume there has to be some source of nutrients available. 4. And make you go bananas over time. ;) Check this out, this is how I believe a pod is assembled. But the important thing here is - just as Neo requires an entire hovercraft with an operator at the console to do his virtual kung-fu, so does the capsuleer require a whole ship full of crew making it all tick smoothly. Because you may fire all your guns with a single thought, but if a shell jams in the automatic feeder, someone has to take a stick and prod that sucker back into the slot.
Y Berion Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.12 11:41:00 - [49] Edited by: Y Berion on 12/07/2010 11:47:42 Originally by: Ontaku Oroa As someone already said, you need people to clean out space rats from conduits. Seeing all those fantastic high-tech technologies and devices we are using in EVE, idea that we'd still need grunts for such mundane tasks like cleaning the decks or... I don't know, hauling ammo into the guns sounds pretty illogical, to say at least. Even our primitive robots and automated systems here on Earth, in the year of 2010. can do such jobs quite well. Btw, nice ОТПОР logo you have there in your sig Originally by: Nova Fox crewless is an option they choose not to take because humans are by far dime a dozen in this galaxy now in some cases CHEAPER than dirt. I often hear this argument, how human crew must be incredibly cheap and all that. Ok, let's take a quick look at the price of keeping human crew onboard. Battleship has 6.000-men crew who needs food, water and salary. Minimal water requirements for an average person has been estimated to be approximately 3 liters per day. Together with sanitation and basic hygiene, this number rises to 50 liters per person per day. But let's be optimistic and say that 5 liters (equals 5 kg aprox.) would be enough. Also you must provide your men food, again I'll assume that 200 grams (0.2 kg) of frozen food per person per day would be sufficient. Water: 6000 people x 5 kg x 30 days = 900 tonnes of water per month, or 900 m3 of space (you better think twice before you load your cargo up to the top with ammo and cap boosters), or: 846k ISK (250 kg = 235 ISK in Jita, according to EVE-central) Food: 6000 people x 0.2 kg x 30 days = 36 tonnes per month, or 45 m3 of space, or: 8.100 ISK (400 kg = 90 ISK in Jita) Salary: well, I'm kinda lazy to go deeper into this part so I'll just hint that 1000 ISK monthly per person would be ok to motivate them to put their lives in extreme danger and to feel rich comparing to ordinary people living on the planets; so it's 6000 people x 1000 ISK = 6 mil ISK added for pod pilots to count. All in all, flying town of 6000 men would cost you almost 7 mil ISK per month and would also require 950 m3 of cargo only to store water and food. Considering the prices for some fantastic devices like large armor repairer II (800k ISK), prototype cloaking device (695k ISK), or drones like hobgoblin II (290k ISK) I think it becomes clear that human crew wouldn't be so cheap, let alone the questions of their working efficiency, chance to survive the flight out of the pods filled with goo, and danger every pod pilot should fear the most: rebellion.
Alexeph Stoekai Stoekai Corp	Posted - 2010.07.12 16:13:00 - [50] Edited by: Alexeph Stoekai on 12/07/2010 16:13:29 Originally by: Y Berion Water: 6000 people x 5 kg x 30 days = 900 tonnes of water per month, or 900 m3 of space (you better think twice before you load your cargo up to the top with ammo and cap boosters), or: 846k ISK (250 kg = 235 ISK in Jita, according to EVE-central) Food: 6000 people x 0.2 kg x 30 days = 36 tonnes per month, or 45 m3 of space, or: 8.100 ISK (400 kg = 90 ISK in Jita) Salary: well, I'm kinda lazy to go deeper into this part so I'll just hint that 1000 ISK monthly per person would be ok to motivate them to put their lives in extreme danger and to feel rich comparing to ordinary people living on the planets; so it's 6000 people x 1000 ISK = 6 mil ISK added for pod pilots to count. All in all, flying town of 6000 men would cost you almost 7 mil ISK per month and would also require 950 m3 of cargo only to store water and food. Interesting how 86% of your cost estimate comes from the thing you were "too lazy to go deeper into." 1000 per month as salary for the average crewman is insane. I won't go into a debate on the value of ISK here, but if we adjust the salary to something more realistic we're probably looking at a cost of under a million to run a large battleship for a month, a cost that can easily be baked into initial the cost of the vessel or insurance payments (facilitated by the multitude of hangar managers most capsuleers probably have running around keeping things like these running behind the scenes so that you won't have to worry your pretty little head about them). Water and air is likely scrubbed and recycled using nanite filters or even much simpler processes, and food is probably carried in its own dedicated hold (whereas the cargo hold is for cargo), and can be quickly replenished whenever you dock. -----

Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.12 16:17:00 - [51] Originally by: Alexeph Stoekai Originally by: Abrazzar Yes.
Sealiah Minmatar Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Aegis Militia	Posted - 2010.07.12 17:58:00 - [52] Don't know about your crew... But my crew is, depending from ships, naked women, exotic dancers mostly, who serve me coffee or... On bigger ships I also have a few pole dancers. Yes, ships have crew. They are cheaper than machines after all.
Vaneshi SnowCrash	Posted - 2010.07.12 18:50:00 - [53] Ships have crew. A pod pilot replaces the captain, helmsman and several other departments (firecontrol, etc.) you'd find on a ship. However, even a frigate probably has one or two NPC's inside of it fixing stuff, reloading magazines and generally keeping the bits the automated systems can't deal with working. So you replace a percentage of the crew but not the total amount. The larger the ship the larger the crew compliment that remains obviously. So even a player Titan should be a small city in space as far as its crew goes.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Fyretracker Heavy Industries	Posted - 2010.07.12 19:24:00 - [54] Frigates have no crew, though the kestrel is an except for some reason it has been stated to have a crew of three(pod+2). but that could be due to the fact it is also usable as a light cargo hauler. once you progress even that one step to destroyer though the numbers just climb. battleships have around 7k crew. which even then is not a bad number of crew per ton of ship considering the size of an EVE battleship, a USN Carrier has almost 7000 people on it and is a fraction the size of an EVE ship. safe to say the crews mostly maintain automated systems. as for losses, well that is debatable. odds are there are escape pods and ships likely dont simply explode as quickly as they do in gameplay, but as i said a few years ago, nobody wants to chase a BS around a star system all day playing "Sink the Bismark" with a wounded Rokh. so ships just go kaboom in gameplay, i am sure in a story though it would be perfectly acceptable to have a ship limping out of battle or the engine reactors going critical and people running to escape pods. though like any ship there is always losses.
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.12 19:52:00 - [55] Food might be an issue, but very few ships stay far away from any station for extended periods of time and even then they often stop by a POS, so enough opportunities to replenish. Water is a non issue, since some ships have likely recycling plants aboard to keep a loss of water and oxygen at a minimum. About the inertia, that ships and stations have artificial gravity and ships have a system to deal with inertia is fact. The Inertia Stabilizer Module is more of a upgrade to the already existing system to allow more extrem maneuvers. Ships have crew, they are not robots. This has been stated multiple times by the chronicles and information from CCP and the information is also made very clear in both EVE-books. Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Fyretracker Heavy Industries	Posted - 2010.07.12 20:54:00 - [56] we also have no clue if we have anything like "Food Replicators" on the ships, maybe not anything like Star Trek but there might be something that makes the basics of what is needed.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2010.07.12 21:29:00 - [57] Edited by: Nova Fox on 12/07/2010 21:32:58 1000 isk per head a month? are you kidding? 12,000 isk will retire an entire family from working another day in thier lives in a upper middle class lower high class status. Thier salary is probably around 12 isk a month, which converts to a nice subsantial amount to planetary economies. Also I think the ship has just as much interial stab tech as the pods do, just life pods for the crew cant warp. Frigates without pods would normally be manned by 36-40ish people from various stated sources and I think thats a full compliment crew, sekeleton crew could easily be five to ten folks. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 24FEB10
Ontaku Oroa Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.07.12 21:44:00 - [58] Originally by: Y Berion Originally by: Ontaku Oroa the ship inertia stabilizers do that, which is the same thing which protects the crew from impossible G-forces. The hydrostatic fluid dampens the effect so that the ride is actually comfortable, unlike for the rest of the crew. Inertia stabs are improving ship handling and general maneuverability, probably by adding a lot of small engines all around the hull (as the item icon is suggesting), the description itself doesn't say anything about protecting the crew from G-forces. After all, when you see your ship speeds up from 0 to 3500 m/s in couple of seconds (mwd`ing) it's clear that inertia stabilizers -as described- wouldn't help at all. Even if they do, single t2 istab has -20% inertia modifier... so if your body is suffering 150 G acceleration, one istab would bring it down to 120 G which is still way too much for anyone out of pod to survive. See, you have two kinds of Sci-Fi, the proper science fiction and what I like to call science fantasy. Science fiction is stuff like Odyssey: 2001, or the Night's Dawn trilogy, where stuff like G-forces apply. And then you have things like Star Wars, Star Trek etc. where the inconveniences of physics are conveniently sidestepped through use of made-up technology that nobody really has a clue about. Eve is the latter. Enter inertia stabilizers, or more properly said, inertia dampeners which are a part of the artificial gravity tech. We do know Eve has artificial gravity, hence it would be a really simple matter to control the amount of G-forces one's crew is subjected to. Thus, there really is no G-force stress when accelerating, maneuvering, warping etc. Its magical and doesn't have to be explained, but if I were to try I would say the warp core is used to maintain a low-fidelity quantum bubble around the ship, altering certain aspects of physical reality just enough to allow for complex gravity control. That would explain why fighters, with their warp cores, can have a pilot, and drones, which do not have a proper warp core, do not have pilots (because of the incredible G-stress forces). Or you could go the "crude" way and just say all ships are equipped with gravity generators which do the same trick. Either way, when dealing with science fantasy logic doesn't always win over magical technology.
Amy Terra	Posted - 2010.07.12 22:22:00 - [59] I choose to belive that there are no crew members in a ship, cause if we go by what most of the people are saying with crew members/ship i most have lost over atleast 10 million men that can not afford to be cloned then you take into account the rat you fight in missions, 0.0 fleet op the alliance tunements high sec wars there has to be hunders of billions of people dieing ever day so unless eve people are quicker at producing kids the rabbits. i don't think that there are any crew members on a ship. For people who are doing the argument " but who cleans up in my ship and does repairs due to deterioration" one: do you not ever dock there are people in staions who can do those things two: last time i checked space is a vacuum nothing that can deteriorate in a vacuum
Mithfindel Aseyakone	Posted - 2010.07.12 22:49:00 - [60] Edited by: Mithfindel on 12/07/2010 22:52:03 A note on crew supplies (such as food): Warp travel causes intense nausea to most people, specially in smaller and older ships. In high-tech ships* the effect is not so notable, but still most of the crew would likely spend considerable amount of their time sedated in life support inside lifeboat pods to avoid the adverse effects of warp and jumpgate travel. They are woken up for combat stations etc. This has two effects: Off-duty crew has a pretty good survival rating, and surprise attacks are not very lethal to crew. However, when the weapons used are essentialy nuclear missiles or similar in power, some crew is bound to die. Of the survivors, some are rescued by the faction owning the ship, some are rescued by Sisters of EVE, some by total outsiders (Quafe owns a salvage & rescue corp). And some are recovered by Sansha's Nation - so the next time you blow up that ship in Providence, could you think about the crew? They either die or become True Slaves. *) The Purifier is mentioned in the Empyrean Age. Would fit well, as it has an advanced warp core capable of travelling through a covert jump bridge.



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