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RazorRaven	Posted - 2010.07.11 22:57:00 - [1] Hello guys! I need your advice. ;) I read few posts about fiting Mach, but all of them were hard faction fittings. At this point I would like to see if there is possible to have effective t2 fitted Mach for missions. I would be later on fitted with faction. Mach is what I want from ship, fast and dps heavy. I am doing missions in amarr space, but less than 50% are sansha/blood/drones. My biggest problem is bonus room in AE. Is it possible to handle in Mach? The low and high are obvious. Low - 4x t2 gyro, 3x t2 TE High - 7x 800mm But I am interested how to deal with medium slots and riggs? And what would be a right setup of hardeners for specific npc's? I would appreciate t2 fittings but be free to post faction fittings also and explain your experience on the subject. ;) For certain missions I would still use my dominix but lets say I am sick of drones at this point. I need something else, something different. My goal is to produce as much isk as possible through bountys and lp, I am not concerned about loot and salvage.
IR Seriouscat	Posted - 2010.07.11 23:12:00 - [2] Machariel in Amarr space? Get Nightmare, so much better, or mission in Matar space. As for Mach, 5 mid slots, 1 reserved for AB, that leaves you with 1 sb, 1 sba (or cap booster) and 2 invulns. And this is why you need to fit faction to start with, there is no way in hell you can have enough tank with t2 here, even with crystals.
RazorRaven	Posted - 2010.07.11 23:24:00 - [3] Please read before you post. I am doing missions in amarr space for year and half and NM is crap agains many angel and guristas and EoM and mercenaries I get. MH is limited only on thermal/em damage. And I like to move from time to time to new areas. Please discus about Mach.
israus	Posted - 2010.07.11 23:34:00 - [4] can I just ask why are you considering spending 3/4 of a billion on a battleship if all your willing to put on it are t2 mods which will come to less then 100 mil. the whole point about the fraction battleships is yes they will run missions quicker then normal battleships. but they aren't 7 times better at running missions then a normal battleships. and with t2 fits they are only fractions better then normal battleships the reason why they end up being so much better is the fact that that cost 750 mil so your willing to spend 400-500 mil on mods to protect that investment.
Gligan	Posted - 2010.07.12 01:32:00 - [5] xl t2 booster , 2 CN invulns , 1 cap booster , 1 AB, ( I personally use gist L booster, 2 cn invulns , 1 AB, 1 CN boost AMP and consider my high dps to be my best defense). BTW EoM get eaten alive by NM. 2 shots for the shield 2 shots for hull and armor( and I have t1 skills only).
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2010.07.12 01:53:00 - [6] Edited by: Psychotic Maniac on 12/07/2010 01:54:26 for guristas use arty mael. angels put ac on that mael. mach not gonna be that much more effective unless you run mainly angels in matar space. I ran gone berserk(EOM) today with mach using sabot ammo and 800mm ac. I can honestly say tach NM is faster. here's my mach fit none the less. [KILL] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Core X-Type 100MN Afterburner Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer,Optimal Range 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L Auto Targeting System II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I -- "You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you." -John Wooden
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.12 02:09:00 - [7] Originally by: Psychotic Maniac I ran gone berserk(EOM) today with mach using sabot ammo and 800mm ac. I can honestly say tach NM is faster. Try using fusion next time. TS adds 3km of optimal ( whoopee ) for a significant DPS hit, and fusion still shoots through EoM/Mordus resist holes. T2 Mach is certainly doable, you don't really need all that much tank most of the time. Deadspace large booster does fit in very well though, and a couple of RF gyros also make a small but noticeable difference.
RentableMuffin	Posted - 2010.07.12 03:38:00 - [8] hmmm I want to say the only reason I fit a DG xl booster was because of cpu problems, for pve fits I really don't consider it any better than the t2, and yeap that would be why. but for t2 1x lsb II, 2x invlun II, 1x 100mn ab II, 1x heavy cap booster II that should work for most missions.
Miriiah	Posted - 2010.07.12 05:28:00 - [9] Edited by: Miriiah on 12/07/2010 05:32:27 Edited by: Miriiah on 12/07/2010 05:29:20 4* Gyro II(RF Gyro) 3* T2 TE 1100mn AB II(Domination AB) 1 XL Booster II (Gist C-type) 2* Hardners depending on mission 1* Heavy Cap Injector II 7800mm II with RF ammo 1 Proj Burst Aerator (T2 RoF rig) 1* Low Friction Nozzle joints (Use Cap safeguard unless you got Gist C-type Xl booster) When thinking about it, you might need the RF Gyro's for reduced CPU cost or a DG XL booster, but the RF gyro's are really worth it
Aqriue	Posted - 2010.07.12 06:18:00 - [10] Originally by: Von Kapiche Try using fusion next time. TS adds 3km of optimal ( whoopee ) for a significant DPS hit, and fusion still shoots through EoM/Mordus resist holes. I will have to try explosive on the next gone beserk, but I did notice that EMP ammo on my mach was far more effective then using kinetic or thermal drones on my dominix.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.07.12 07:46:00 - [11] The main reason for fitting faction Gyros is that the Mach is kind of tight on CPU, and it makes fitting much easier if you use them. The extra DPS is just a bonus. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
RazorRaven	Posted - 2010.07.12 11:27:00 - [12] First, tnx guys but now my head hurts Originally by: israus can I just ask why are you considering spending 3/4 of a billion on a battleship if all your willing to put on it are t2 mods which will come to less then 100 mil. the whole point about the fraction battleships is yes they will run missions quicker then normal battleships. but they aren't 7 times better at running missions then a normal battleships. and with t2 fits they are only fractions better then normal battleships the reason why they end up being so much better is the fact that that cost 750 mil so your willing to spend 400-500 mil on mods to protect that investment. I agree and the plan is to get it full faction where is needed. But the problem is that faction fittings dont cost 400-500 mil. It's cost of one CN invul field or 1/2 of price of shield booster. And I am still short of that amount of money. Problem is that I am really sick off using dominix anymore and need change. Dominix was able to run any mission without runing away. So I need something better and probably universal (as much as possible), it doesnt have to be perfect. Thats why I thought that Mach is perfect. Rattlesnake - droneship so its a big NO NO Nightmare - need that damage type only 1/3 of the time I dont know, I am worried about Mach tank even with expencive faction fittings. For what is Mach good? And for what is not? Whitch npcs?
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.12 12:41:00 - [13] Edited by: Von Kapiche on 12/07/2010 12:41:46 Originally by: Aqriue Originally by: Von Kapiche Try using fusion next time. TS adds 3km of optimal ( whoopee ) for a significant DPS hit, and fusion still shoots through EoM/Mordus resist holes. I will have to try explosive on the next gone beserk, but I did notice that EMP ammo on my mach was far more effective then using kinetic or thermal drones on my dominix. Projectile Ammo thread Was a bit surprising when I first thought about it too. Edited for inability to write posts.
Evil Stare	Posted - 2010.07.12 12:45:00 - [14] Originally by: Psychotic Maniac Edited by: Psychotic Maniac on 12/07/2010 01:54:26 for guristas use arty mael. angels put ac on that mael. mach not gonna be that much more effective unless you run mainly angels in matar space. I ran gone berserk(EOM) today with mach using sabot ammo and 800mm ac. I can honestly say tach NM is faster. here's my mach fit none the less. [KILL] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Core X-Type 100MN Afterburner Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer,Optimal Range 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L Auto Targeting System II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I The tracking computer is rather pointless with AC's as they work on fall off and not optimal. Best to use that mid slot for tank. I might also swap a gyro for another TE or even DCU. The TE swap would give you less eft dps but might add a touch more reach and usable dps.
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2010.07.12 13:00:00 - [15] Originally by: Evil Stare Originally by: Psychotic Maniac Edited by: Psychotic Maniac on 12/07/2010 01:54:26 for guristas use arty mael. angels put ac on that mael. mach not gonna be that much more effective unless you run mainly angels in matar space. I ran gone berserk(EOM) today with mach using sabot ammo and 800mm ac. I can honestly say tach NM is faster. here's my mach fit none the less. [KILL] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Core X-Type 100MN Afterburner Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer,Optimal Range 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L Auto Targeting System II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I The tracking computer is rather pointless with AC's as they work on fall off and not optimal. Best to use that mid slot for tank. I might also swap a gyro for another TE or even DCU. The TE swap would give you less eft dps but might add a touch more reach and usable dps. don't need more tank or less dps. this fit works very good from my exp. as for the ammo type vrs. eom I used pp and didn't notice any better results over ts. but, I do use pp most of the time as the Mach is my secondary mission boat behind my NM or Pal for running in amarr space when not facing sansha/blood rats. -- "You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you." -John Wooden
Evil Stare	Posted - 2010.07.12 13:35:00 - [16] Originally by: Psychotic Maniac Originally by: Evil Stare Originally by: Psychotic Maniac Edited by: Psychotic Maniac on 12/07/2010 01:54:26 for guristas use arty mael. angels put ac on that mael. mach not gonna be that much more effective unless you run mainly angels in matar space. I ran gone berserk(EOM) today with mach using sabot ammo and 800mm ac. I can honestly say tach NM is faster. here's my mach fit none the less. [KILL] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Core X-Type 100MN Afterburner Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer,Optimal Range 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II,EMP L Auto Targeting System II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I The tracking computer is rather pointless with AC's as they work on fall off and not optimal. Best to use that mid slot for tank. I might also swap a gyro for another TE or even DCU. The TE swap would give you less eft dps but might add a touch more reach and usable dps. don't need more tank or less dps. this fit works very good from my exp. as for the ammo type vrs. eom I used pp and didn't notice any better results over ts. but, I do use pp most of the time as the Mach is my secondary mission boat behind my NM or Pal for running in amarr space when not facing sansha/blood rats. I'm sure it works great, but it would work exactly the same wiht out the 90m faction Tracking computer that doesn't do anything for you.
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2010.07.12 13:44:00 - [17] idiotic statement as it adds tracking range/speed. if you're too cheap to use it that's a you problem, not a me problem. -- "You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you." -John Wooden
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.12 13:57:00 - [18] TC have affected falloff for some time now... in fact just as long as the Mach has been the best mission boat.
el caido School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.07.12 14:47:00 - [19] Most of the aforementioned fits are heading in the right direction. The Mach survives on its speed and brutal DPS. But a few tips, assuming you have moderate to excellent skills: A T2 fit is possible and advised if you don't want to be a gank magnet. A cap booster is not needed for any lvl 4. Crystal implants (or any shield implants, for that matter) are not needed for any lvl 4. Finally, an automach chews through ammo at a ridiculous rate. If your primary concern is making ISK, the time saved may not be worth it. I would suggest doing the math beforehand if you're a spreadsheet nerd who cares of such things.
Evil Stare	Posted - 2010.07.12 15:10:00 - [20] Edited by: Evil Stare on 12/07/2010 15:13:21 Originally by: Psychotic Maniac idiotic statement as it adds tracking range/speed. if you're too cheap to use it that's a you problem, not a me problem. I have several of these, but I use them on ships where it actually gets real benifit from them such Tachs, Rails or 1400/1200mm canons. Yes, you get some fall off bonus, but not nearly as much as you do with a TE and as far as I know, there is a stacking penalty. And you're using a optimal range bonus which is kind of silly considering how low optimal is with AC. A web or even Painter would probably be a better use for a mid slot.
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.12 15:11:00 - [21] Edited by: Seriously Bored on 12/07/2010 15:13:28 ED: Ugh.
Qolde Minmatar art of eve Gunmen of the Apocalypse	Posted - 2010.07.12 19:17:00 - [22] i think my t2 mission machariel went something like this 3 gyro 3 tracking enhancer power diagnostic 100mn ab x-l shield booster cap recharger 2 hardeners 7x 800's auto targeting system 3 capacitor control circuits i cant remember for sure if this fit, but it was the goal. faction fit as necessary to overcome the cpu issues with this fit Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Zahira Wrath Amarr Dominion Strategic	Posted - 2010.07.12 19:41:00 - [23] Here is my setup: (it has a few faction modules, but nothing over 50m each) I believe I went to faction gear due to some CPU problems I was running into with a straight T2 setup. The RF Gyros are there just to max out the DPS. The AB is to max out the speed tank. [Machariel] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Domination 100MN Afterburner Republic Fleet Target Painter Domination X-Large Shield Booster Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L Small Tractor Beam I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I It can do the last room of AE, but I think I had to warp out once. Mainly its setup for a combination of speed tank and huge shield buffer. I can usually close the distance on any baddie and take it down before I need to even engage the booster. Oh and to the guy talking about the nightmare bieng better, I would disagree. Nightmare has less DPS, is slow as heck, and well its less fun IMHO. Close combat is much more interesting than warping in and being a stationary turret.
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2010.07.12 22:35:00 - [24] Edited by: Psychotic Maniac on 12/07/2010 22:43:29 Originally by: Zahira Wrath Oh and to the guy talking about the nightmare bieng better, I would disagree. Nightmare has less DPS, is slow as heck, and well its less fun IMHO. Close combat is much more interesting than warping in and being a stationary turret. silly matar pilot. do you own/use a nm? are you well skilled for nm? do you mission in amarr space vrs. sansha/blood rats that often spawn well outside 50km? answer to all those for me is yes. so, weather you disagree or not is irrelevant. cause I know better through my exp. plus, I was referring specifically to gone berserk where many rats spawn outside 40km. -- "You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you." -John Wooden
Shatner19	Posted - 2010.07.12 23:30:00 - [25] Machariel is actually better when it comes to versatility in engaging a large variety of targets; mainly due to damage type effectiveness. If you can only afford 1 pimped battleship for missions, the mach covers all npc enemies, at nearly equal effectiveness. Against sansha's, autocannons are not affected by npc tracking disruptors - falloff isnt modified. So at any and all engagement times, your optimal engagement ranges isn't shot to hell.
KardelSharpeye Gallente Antares Expeditions	Posted - 2010.07.12 23:40:00 - [26] [Machariel, Shield Dps] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Domination 100MN Afterburner Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 25 Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L Large Projectile Ambit Extension II Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard II Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard II For a bit more pimp most cost efficient was to go pithi b type shield mods, now go to jita and accept my contract for the rigged hull
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.13 00:07:00 - [27] Originally by: Evil Stare I have several of these, but I use them on ships where it actually gets real benifit from them such Tachs, Rails or 1400/1200mm canons. Yes, you get some fall off bonus, but not nearly as much as you do with a TE and as far as I know, there is a stacking penalty. And you're using a optimal range bonus which is kind of silly considering how low optimal is with AC. A web or even Painter would probably be a better use for a mid slot. Optimal scripted TC has exactly the same optimal and falloff bonus as a TE. I wouldn't use one on a Mach because I like AB/Booster/3 hardener tanks and my rigs are for damage, but your reasons are rather misleading.
Ivas Tiffy	Posted - 2010.07.13 01:08:00 - [28] Originally by: RazorRaven I am doing missions in amarr space for year and half and NM is crap agains many angel and guristas and EoM and mercenaries I get. jesus dude your skills must suck harder than a paid ***** in heat. my nightmare rips through EoM's can do gone berzerk in under 10 minutes. can do gurista missions pretty fast too. train your skills up properly or better yet . get a properly fitted nightmare and try again! Go ahead and clap. Mediocrity deserves applause. Why don't we go find Pandemic Legion and clap around them!
Zahira Wrath Amarr Dominion Strategic	Posted - 2010.07.13 02:25:00 - [29] Edited by: Zahira Wrath on 13/07/2010 02:25:45 Originally by: Psychotic Maniac silly matar pilot. do you own/use a nm? are you well skilled for nm? do you mission in amarr space vrs. sansha/blood rats that often spawn well outside 50km? answer to all those for me is yes. so, weather you disagree or not is irrelevant. cause I know better through my exp. plus, I was referring specifically to gone berserk where many rats spawn outside 40km. DELETED. Nevermind. I dont want to feed this troll.
Evil Stare	Posted - 2010.07.13 11:36:00 - [30] Originally by: Von Kapiche Originally by: Evil Stare I have several of these, but I use them on ships where it actually gets real benifit from them such Tachs, Rails or 1400/1200mm canons. Yes, you get some fall off bonus, but not nearly as much as you do with a TE and as far as I know, there is a stacking penalty. And you're using a optimal range bonus which is kind of silly considering how low optimal is with AC. A web or even Painter would probably be a better use for a mid slot. Optimal scripted TC has exactly the same optimal and falloff bonus as a TE. I wouldn't use one on a Mach because I like AB/Booster/3 hardener tanks and my rigs are for damage, but your reasons are rather misleading. Actually, I don't believe this to be correct. You can confirm this in EFT or EVEHQ which I did.

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