| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Bartholomew Benson
   |
Posted - 2004.12.18 05:37:00 -
[1]
Sun-Tsu teaches that speed is the essence of war. Yet here in EVE, it get's a major reduction in usability.
In 1991, the Iraqi General in charge accused the Coalition forces of CHEATING because they were too fast and went around all of their defenses faster than they could adapt to them, rather than attacking them head on as they had intended for the coalition to do to them!
In that little skirmish that we have all read about... now what was it called... umm... Oh yeah! World War II, the Germans used the Blitzkrieg. The lightning war, this was not a slow, meandering invasion in it's day, it was blazing fast!
Finally, the invasion of Iraq, the fastest moving campaign anyone has ever seen. Experts have just looked in awe at the speed with which this was done.
My point is simply this. Speed, even in seemingly excessive amounts is still something that can be dealt with. Did everyone give up battleships for interceptors because they were so darn fast? NO. They dealt with them. But if you take away from a ship, that which makes it truely lethal, what good is it then, but to be decommissioned and recycled into razor blades and shell casings.
Now, what is really funny to me is this. I'm a merchant trader. I left the game and have come back and now, my biggest concern is that my Iteron V is about 5-7 times more vulnerable than it was before.
Consider this:
Modern fighter jets have multistaged afterburners, so that they can trade differing amounts of fuel for differing amounts of speed. If you have two mwd's, or AB's, would that not be a valid comparison, you exchange the increase in cap consumption for the extra speed.
So, do I think the changes were good or bad? I believe they are good if you want to go backwards. The slower the game, the more polarized the ship usage will be, extremely large and extremely small, battleships and frigates. Infantry and Tanks circa WWII, a ground war. The faster the game, the more diverse and tactical the ships will have to be. Like modern warfare, the infantry and tanks are still there and are extremely necessary. We just use them slightly differently than we used to.
Are my examples perfect. NO. So please don't spend pages pointing out how they don't reflect with utter perfection, the world of EVE. I was using them to get a broad general idea across.
Have fun everyone!
"Speed is the essence of war, not the whole war." |
Bartholomew Benson
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 05:37:00 -
[2]
Sun-Tsu teaches that speed is the essence of war. Yet here in EVE, it get's a major reduction in usability.
In 1991, the Iraqi General in charge accused the Coalition forces of CHEATING because they were too fast and went around all of their defenses faster than they could adapt to them, rather than attacking them head on as they had intended for the coalition to do to them!
In that little skirmish that we have all read about... now what was it called... umm... Oh yeah! World War II, the Germans used the Blitzkrieg. The lightning war, this was not a slow, meandering invasion in it's day, it was blazing fast!
Finally, the invasion of Iraq, the fastest moving campaign anyone has ever seen. Experts have just looked in awe at the speed with which this was done.
My point is simply this. Speed, even in seemingly excessive amounts is still something that can be dealt with. Did everyone give up battleships for interceptors because they were so darn fast? NO. They dealt with them. But if you take away from a ship, that which makes it truely lethal, what good is it then, but to be decommissioned and recycled into razor blades and shell casings.
Now, what is really funny to me is this. I'm a merchant trader. I left the game and have come back and now, my biggest concern is that my Iteron V is about 5-7 times more vulnerable than it was before.
Consider this:
Modern fighter jets have multistaged afterburners, so that they can trade differing amounts of fuel for differing amounts of speed. If you have two mwd's, or AB's, would that not be a valid comparison, you exchange the increase in cap consumption for the extra speed.
So, do I think the changes were good or bad? I believe they are good if you want to go backwards. The slower the game, the more polarized the ship usage will be, extremely large and extremely small, battleships and frigates. Infantry and Tanks circa WWII, a ground war. The faster the game, the more diverse and tactical the ships will have to be. Like modern warfare, the infantry and tanks are still there and are extremely necessary. We just use them slightly differently than we used to.
Are my examples perfect. NO. So please don't spend pages pointing out how they don't reflect with utter perfection, the world of EVE. I was using them to get a broad general idea across.
Have fun everyone!
"Speed is the essence of war, not the whole war." |
SithEwok
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 06:16:00 -
[3]
Edited by: SithEwok on 18/12/2004 06:17:10
Well I left eve for the start of a new game, been playing it for 2 weeks now. Its professional, fast fixes. Lag is almost non-existant. You dont have to work for weeks to build a bs. You dont lose those 2 weeks.
I have been with eve since the first day it came in the local store here, I can tell you I'm through with being nerfed. To all those I know, have a great one. I may be back who knows. Prolly wont be anytime soon. Speed is needed. I will not travel 20 jumps in 1.5 hours for anyone. Not even if Tomb was my best friend.
|
SithEwok
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 06:16:00 -
[4]
Edited by: SithEwok on 18/12/2004 06:17:10
Well I left eve for the start of a new game, been playing it for 2 weeks now. Its professional, fast fixes. Lag is almost non-existant. You dont have to work for weeks to build a bs. You dont lose those 2 weeks.
I have been with eve since the first day it came in the local store here, I can tell you I'm through with being nerfed. To all those I know, have a great one. I may be back who knows. Prolly wont be anytime soon. Speed is needed. I will not travel 20 jumps in 1.5 hours for anyone. Not even if Tomb was my best friend.
|
Dufas
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 06:38:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Dufas on 18/12/2004 06:39:49
hmm what game is that? ccp just seems to want to slow everything down which takes ppl longer to do stuff which inturn keeps ppl online more....personally i hate it..things are too slow and it takes too freaking long to do things as it is...i like the useing more cap for more then 1 burner/mwd...it makes sence...but it wont happen cause ccp have this weird notion of balancing things which means nerf..
..take missles for example...to 'balance' them they'll have the smaller the object hit the smaller the dmg the missle will do...how stupid is that!!! if you shoot a midget with a 9mm gun will it do less dmg to the midget then it would do to a normal sized person...hell no..missles are fine the way they are....stop trying to balance things and work on stuff that needs fixing like that damn bouncing the ship 400km from the gate bug or the fact that when running 2 clients on 1 computer i now get c r a c k s and pops from the sound and have to turn sound off...or putting in stuff that didnt make the release like comet mining or system wide belts or bigger indys or some cargo increaseing skills or frieghter indys...etc etc.... and yes i'll have my cheese now! 
|
Dufas
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 06:38:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Dufas on 18/12/2004 06:39:49
hmm what game is that? ccp just seems to want to slow everything down which takes ppl longer to do stuff which inturn keeps ppl online more....personally i hate it..things are too slow and it takes too freaking long to do things as it is...i like the useing more cap for more then 1 burner/mwd...it makes sence...but it wont happen cause ccp have this weird notion of balancing things which means nerf..
..take missles for example...to 'balance' them they'll have the smaller the object hit the smaller the dmg the missle will do...how stupid is that!!! if you shoot a midget with a 9mm gun will it do less dmg to the midget then it would do to a normal sized person...hell no..missles are fine the way they are....stop trying to balance things and work on stuff that needs fixing like that damn bouncing the ship 400km from the gate bug or the fact that when running 2 clients on 1 computer i now get c r a c k s and pops from the sound and have to turn sound off...or putting in stuff that didnt make the release like comet mining or system wide belts or bigger indys or some cargo increaseing skills or frieghter indys...etc etc.... and yes i'll have my cheese now!
|
Thyro
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 09:40:00 -
[7]
If you consider EVE as
Not a game...
But a second or probably 1st job...
Then you will achieve anything on EVE...
Including selling not on EVE market...
But on Ebay
Yeah but I agree with what you have said... this game is getting to nerfd... under the absurd cover that some try to justify as "balanced".
I'd called absurd balance!
But hey! ... more time that you spend on EVE more time that you pay for your subscription... (do you see here any link?)
|
Thyro
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 09:40:00 -
[8]
If you consider EVE as
Not a game...
But a second or probably 1st job...
Then you will achieve anything on EVE...
Including selling not on EVE market...
But on Ebay
Yeah but I agree with what you have said... this game is getting to nerfd... under the absurd cover that some try to justify as "balanced".
I'd called absurd balance!
But hey! ... more time that you spend on EVE more time that you pay for your subscription... (do you see here any link?)
|
Puke Skystalker
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 10:07:00 -
[9]
Sun-Tsu teaches that speed is the essence of war. Sun-Tsu teaches that insta BMs is teh win for traders in Iteron V's
|
Puke Skystalker
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 10:07:00 -
[10]
Sun-Tsu teaches that speed is the essence of war. Sun-Tsu teaches that insta BMs is teh win for traders in Iteron V's
|
SithEwok
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 10:56:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Puke Skystalker
Sun-Tsu teaches that speed is the essence of war. Sun-Tsu teaches that insta BMs is teh win for traders in Iteron V's
Sun-Tsu never knew coding bugs, i.e. jump gate stall bug, sooner or later you'll encounter it. Its not fun when you know its not your fault.
|
SithEwok
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 10:56:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Puke Skystalker
Sun-Tsu teaches that speed is the essence of war. Sun-Tsu teaches that insta BMs is teh win for traders in Iteron V's
Sun-Tsu never knew coding bugs, i.e. jump gate stall bug, sooner or later you'll encounter it. Its not fun when you know its not your fault.
|
Reva Ortov
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 11:50:00 -
[13]
Sacrificing Fun for the never ending balance causes players to leave as demonstrated in many previous online games.
it is sad to see CCP following the same path.
Has EVE peaked and we're on the downward side of the hill?
|
Reva Ortov
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 11:50:00 -
[14]
Sacrificing Fun for the never ending balance causes players to leave as demonstrated in many previous online games.
it is sad to see CCP following the same path.
Has EVE peaked and we're on the downward side of the hill?
|
Discorporation
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 12:01:00 -
[15]
Cruisers going 4km/s was just wrong 
[Heterocephalus glaber]
|
Discorporation
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 12:01:00 -
[16]
Cruisers going 4km/s was just wrong
[Heterocephalus glaber]
|
Thyro
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 12:11:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Thyro on 18/12/2004 12:14:51
Originally by: Discorporation
Cruisers going 4km/s was just wrong
if CCP put a limit on the number of modules of same type that can be simultaeous fited... then you will not see cruisers at 4Km/s
Other way is to remove all types of modules form the game and assign a specific setting to each ship (preferably not allowed to change)... and only then you will have a "balanced" game.
|
Thyro
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 12:11:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Thyro on 18/12/2004 12:14:51
Originally by: Discorporation
Cruisers going 4km/s was just wrong
if CCP put a limit on the number of modules of same type that can be simultaeous fited... then you will not see cruisers at 4Km/s
Other way is to remove all types of modules form the game and assign a specific setting to each ship (preferably not allowed to change)... and only then you will have a "balanced" game.
|
Discorporation
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 12:15:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Discorporation on 18/12/2004 12:15:55
Originally by: Thyro
if CCP put a limit on the number of modules of same type that can be used simultaeous on the fittings... then you will not see cruisers at 4Km/s
They did, only 1 AB/MWD per ship 
[Heterocephalus glaber]
|
Discorporation
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 12:15:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Discorporation on 18/12/2004 12:15:55
Originally by: Thyro
if CCP put a limit on the number of modules of same type that can be used simultaeous on the fittings... then you will not see cruisers at 4Km/s
They did, only 1 AB/MWD per ship
[Heterocephalus glaber]
|
Lil' Bit
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 14:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dufas
Edited by: Dufas on 18/12/2004 06:39:49
hmm what game is that? ccp just seems to want to slow everything down which takes ppl longer to do stuff which inturn keeps ppl online more....personally i hate it..
You think that CCP wants to keep you online more?
|
Lil' Bit
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 14:23:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Dufas
Edited by: Dufas on 18/12/2004 06:39:49
hmm what game is that? ccp just seems to want to slow everything down which takes ppl longer to do stuff which inturn keeps ppl online more....personally i hate it..
You think that CCP wants to keep you online more?
|
Gunstar Zero
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 15:46:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Are my examples perfect. NO. So please don't spend pages pointing out how they don't reflect with utter perfection, the world of EVE. I was using them to get a broad general idea across.
You are correct of course, history teaches us that strapping 2 rocket engines onto the side of your tank is the ultimate path to victory.
(sorry) ;-)
|
Gunstar Zero
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 15:46:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Are my examples perfect. NO. So please don't spend pages pointing out how they don't reflect with utter perfection, the world of EVE. I was using them to get a broad general idea across.
You are correct of course, history teaches us that strapping 2 rocket engines onto the side of your tank is the ultimate path to victory.
(sorry) ;-)
|
Vernn
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 16:41:00 -
[25]
As a 10 day trial noob, I will have to concede the fact that the game is definitely a little slow in pace. I can't really comment on the nerfs though since I haven't been around long enough to really feel their effects.
Some Multy system warp gates that bi-passed longer trips through conventional warp gates would help considerably. The pace of the game really does need to be quickened.
Still a good game though. Its not the best game on the market, buts its a good complex and interesting alternative to all the hack n' slashes.
Best quote ever = "Needless to say, the wedding couldn't happen with the bride dead." |
Vernn
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 16:41:00 -
[26]
As a 10 day trial noob, I will have to concede the fact that the game is definitely a little slow in pace. I can't really comment on the nerfs though since I haven't been around long enough to really feel their effects.
Some Multy system warp gates that bi-passed longer trips through conventional warp gates would help considerably. The pace of the game really does need to be quickened.
Still a good game though. Its not the best game on the market, buts its a good complex and interesting alternative to all the hack n' slashes.
Best quote ever = "Needless to say, the wedding couldn't happen with the bride dead." |
TheFatman
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 17:19:00 -
[27]
My view differs from most, I guess.
I want the game to be slower, the universe is to small. It's wrong that I can move in a battlegroup from oneside of the Eve Universe to the otherside and do a massive attack in under a day.
Setting up major offensives to distant regions should take days to setup, if you don't want to waste days traversing the universe to launch an offensive, then don't settle in your own region and control that. Same goes for market dynamics, basically I want to see diverse communities popup, that do battle on a smaller scale and trade on a smaller scale.
I think making travel slower would actually open up 0.0 space to people that don't want full bore PvP all the time. We would see alot more smaller alliances heading out to 0.0 with POS and setting up communities, knowing that if they go deep enough, roving bands of trigger happy thrill seekers won't come out for a day or two, to attack them for ****s and giggles, but if someone really did want what they had they would have to put alot more effort and commitment into taking it than they do nowadays.
I don't understand the complaints that it takes to long to travel from one point on the map to another distant point, don't go setup camp where you are and try and recruit a community of like minded people. Make traveling to a distant place for trade or battle, be something special and rewarding.
|
TheFatman
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 17:19:00 -
[28]
My view differs from most, I guess.
I want the game to be slower, the universe is to small. It's wrong that I can move in a battlegroup from oneside of the Eve Universe to the otherside and do a massive attack in under a day.
Setting up major offensives to distant regions should take days to setup, if you don't want to waste days traversing the universe to launch an offensive, then don't settle in your own region and control that. Same goes for market dynamics, basically I want to see diverse communities popup, that do battle on a smaller scale and trade on a smaller scale.
I think making travel slower would actually open up 0.0 space to people that don't want full bore PvP all the time. We would see alot more smaller alliances heading out to 0.0 with POS and setting up communities, knowing that if they go deep enough, roving bands of trigger happy thrill seekers won't come out for a day or two, to attack them for ****s and giggles, but if someone really did want what they had they would have to put alot more effort and commitment into taking it than they do nowadays.
I don't understand the complaints that it takes to long to travel from one point on the map to another distant point, don't go setup camp where you are and try and recruit a community of like minded people. Make traveling to a distant place for trade or battle, be something special and rewarding.
|
TauTut
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 18:08:00 -
[29]
Originally by: TheFatman
My view differs from most, I guess.
I want the game to be slower, the universe is to small. It's wrong that I can move in a battlegroup from oneside of the Eve Universe to the otherside and do a massive attack in under a day.
Setting up major offensives to distant regions should take days to setup, if you don't want to waste days traversing the universe to launch an offensive, then don't settle in your own region and control that. Same goes for market dynamics, basically I want to see diverse communities popup, that do battle on a smaller scale and trade on a smaller scale.
I think making travel slower would actually open up 0.0 space to people that don't want full bore PvP all the time. We would see alot more smaller alliances heading out to 0.0 with POS and setting up communities, knowing that if they go deep enough, roving bands of trigger happy thrill seekers won't come out for a day or two, to attack them for ****s and giggles, but if someone really did want what they had they would have to put alot more effort and commitment into taking it than they do nowadays.
I don't understand the complaints that it takes to long to travel from one point on the map to another distant point, don't go setup camp where you are and try and recruit a community of like minded people. Make traveling to a distant place for trade or battle, be something special and rewarding.
Quality. I couldn't agree more.
-TT
Background
|
TauTut
|
Posted - 2004.12.18 18:08:00 -
[30]
Originally by: TheFatman
My view differs from most, I guess.
I want the game to be slower, the universe is to small. It's wrong that I can move in a battlegroup from oneside of the Eve Universe to the otherside and do a massive attack in under a day.
Setting up major offensives to distant regions should take days to setup, if you don't want to waste days traversing the universe to launch an offensive, then don't settle in your own region and control that. Same goes for market dynamics, basically I want to see diverse communities popup, that do battle on a smaller scale and trade on a smaller scale.
I think making travel slower would actually open up 0.0 space to people that don't want full bore PvP all the time. We would see alot more smaller alliances heading out to 0.0 with POS and setting up communities, knowing that if they go deep enough, roving bands of trigger happy thrill seekers won't come out for a day or two, to attack them for ****s and giggles, but if someone really did want what they had they would have to put alot more effort and commitment into taking it than they do nowadays.
I don't understand the complaints that it takes to long to travel from one point on the map to another distant point, don't go setup camp where you are and try and recruit a community of like minded people. Make traveling to a distant place for trade or battle, be something special and rewarding.
Quality. I couldn't agree more.
-TT
Background
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |