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Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2010.07.14 09:35:00 -
[1]
What are the pro's and con's for these two ships? The 2/3 low slot difference surely must mean something, but as I've never done low/null sec scouting I'm not sure what.
I'm sure for high sec scanning it's all a matter of taste. But if I'm to be of best use for a low sec gang, which ship is preferred, and why?
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Pascal Almaric
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.07.14 10:06:00 -
[2]
Cheetah is hard to fit with less than perfect skills but it's more mobile, which translates into more chance of getting warp-ins and running gate camps.
Buzzard is easy to fit with OK skills.
They both move cloaked, they both launch probes.
If you are a covops specialist, get a Cheetah. Otherwise, get whatever fits into your skill plan with the least bother.
[If you ever want to add bombers to covops, Hound > Manticore. But note that Racial Frigate V is a pretty small percentage of the skills needed to make a good bomber pilot, you'd train multiple races if you were really into it.]
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Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2010.07.14 12:18:00 -
[3]
Thanks Pascal.
What fitting issues are you talking about by the way? How would you fit a Cheetah provided the pilot has the skills?
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Pascal Almaric
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.07.14 13:35:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Madmi CEO
What fitting issues are you talking about by the way?
It's pretty hard on CPU unless you have Covops IV-V to reduce the cloak's usage. The powergrid is not huge either. It's also not blessed with a great deal of cap for chains of long warps, which are a scouting covops staple. So unless you have excellent nav/cap skills, you need cap batteries/rechargers, which use CPU and grid you haven't got. So you end up with co-processors and MAPCs in your low slots, instead of speed/agility mods, and speed/agility is what you chose the Cheetah for in the first place.
Quote:
How would you fit a Cheetah provided the pilot has the skills?
Opinions vary, I'd use this:
[Cheetah, Fast]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Cap Recharger II
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe I
[empty high slot]
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
That goes about 145AU on a full cap and it seems fine for strings of 120 AU warps, with Warp Drive Operation V and Energy Management IV. When I was new I needed a Cap Battery, and a MAPC to power it, and a co pro to give CPU for the MAPC.
A couple of other things...
A lot of covops pilots like defensive EWAR like sensor damps and ECM bursts. I don't on a Cheetah because they won't fit without fitting mods, which slow you down compromising your main job. Better to fly it right and not get tackled. On some other ship with spare fittings, there's no harm in adding them.
Some people fit tackle on covops which I think is madness -- your Cheetah + faction probe launcher + pod (navigation and probing implants) are probably worth way more than that ratting Drake you're tackling and it can kill you in seconds. If you really want cloaky tackle, gang warp a force recon to your probe hit.
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Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2010.07.14 13:47:00 -
[5]
Great, thanks for the info Pascal. Currently it's the warp skills that are lacking a bit, but not that hard to remedy.
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Pascal Almaric
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.07.14 14:04:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Madmi CEO
Great, thanks for the info Pascal. Currently it's the warp skills that are lacking a bit, but not that hard to remedy.
You're welcome. Since you mentioned lowsec, you might find it a little bit easier than I did in 0.0 where you can get a lot of long warps in succession.
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PotatoOverdose
Caldari
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.07.14 14:19:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Pascal Almaric
[If you ever want to add bombers to covops, Hound > Manticore. But note that Racial Frigate V is a pretty small percentage of the skills needed to make a good bomber pilot, you'd train multiple races if you were really into it.]
Just out of curiosity: how did you come to that conclusion?
CPU: Hound:235 Manticore:260
Powergrid: Hound:40 Manticore:38
Capacitor: Hound:250 energy @200000ms Manticore:268.75 energy @215000ms
Med Slots: Hound:3 Manticore: 4
Low slots: Hound: 3 Manticore: 2
Max Velocity: Hound: 235m/sec Manticore:256 m/sec
Covops Cloak Ships tend to be CPU intensive. A bomber needs a MWD and at least 1(preferably 2) target painters. In addition, you probably want a medium shield extender (this is better than any plates for a bomber) for some buffer or a long range point depending on your fleet distribution.
You might argue that the extra lowslot gives you room for an additional BCS, but an extra painter is better, (the second painter even has a noticeable effect on some battleships and definitely on all ships below BS size) as the painter will increase your DPS and alpha more than an extra BCS will. While a hound can fit 2 painters in addition to a MWD, it has to sacrifice something for it, buffer, point, etc.
Also, fitting additional BC's will be difficult because of their relatively high CPU requirements compared to other modules the bomber will fit.
So What exactly does the hound have that makes it a better bomber?
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Pascal Almaric
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.07.14 14:42:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Pascal Almaric on 14/07/2010 14:43:44
Originally by: PotatoOverdose
So What exactly does the hound have that makes it a better bomber?
Explosive rather than Kinetic bonus. It just works better in practice. IMHO etc.
That said, the Manticore definitely has its moments of glory: its midlsot EWAR potential is very useful in gangs that rely on damps + tracks to suppress the enemy. Sometimes it's the bomber. As I think I said earlier, people who are serious about bombers often train multiple races.
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steave435
Caldari
Final Agony
B A N E
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Posted - 2010.07.14 16:57:00 -
[9]
Quote:
You might argue that the extra lowslot gives you room for an additional BCS, but an extra painter is better, (the second painter even has a noticeable effect on some battleships and definitely on all ships below BS size) as the painter will increase your DPS and alpha more than an extra BCS will.
Bombers are usually used in gangs, so those extra painters needed come from your friends.
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