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| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 82 post(s) |
Celia Therone
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Posted - 2010.07.21 15:27:00 -
[1381]
 Originally by: Vadimik
So do I. But, to be honest, at this point I want ambulation more than rocket fix. No, wait, I think it's called "walking in stations". Or is it "incarna" now? 
Incarna: 74 developers * 6 months
Rockets: 1 developer * a couple of days
I'm fairly confident that this isn't an either-or situation.
Idea:
1) Make a new team 'Mjollnir' whose purpose is to drop the hammer of the gods on high visibility bugs and balance problems that are easy to fix.
2) CCP Abathur is team Mjollnir.
3) Work with CSM to identify high profile, low work items to fix.
4) Profit.
Just 0.3% of the developers assigned to Apocrypha and I bet it would dramatically reduce the current level of player unhappiness.
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Orange Faeces
The Squirt Locker
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Posted - 2010.07.21 15:31:00 -
[1382]
Originally by: FingerThief
It's one of those days where I, as a veteran, long time supporter, flagbearer and fanboi of EVE have tears in my eyes when I see what CCP has become and how they treat us players now.
hahahahah... lol
keep the troll strong, CCP.
oF
---
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Vadimik
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.21 15:33:00 -
[1383]
Originally by: Berry Rydell
Edited by: Berry Rydell on 21/07/2010 15:09:40
If half the people who genuinely care about the future of the game actually cancelled their accounts as a sign of protest, you can bet CCP would be forced to sit up and take notice and respond positively and with some accountability to their customer base.
Note, cancelling your subscription has a lead time, so you will still be playing the game for a month (or more depending on your subscription) and can always re-subscribe before your precious lagged-out, broken mechanics and feature-ruined existence of carpel-tunnel induced PI clickage time ends (if you choose).
Cancelling your sub != quitting the game. Use the power of your wallet where it counts, not on a forum where you will be ignored.
The logs may show nothing, but I'm sure CCP's monthly business reports for # of cancelled accounts at end-July would be a worthy statistic.
You do realise that's borderline blackmailing, right? And that this may very well result in CCP simply not communicating their future plans to players to prevent this sort of provocative behaviour.
Oh, and haven't you, by chance, been playing SWG when NGE hit?
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Wenoc
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Posted - 2010.07.21 15:40:00 -
[1384]
Pointing out a simple thing here,
Fleet fights are bugged.
0.0 is dependent on fleet fights. Big fleet fights.
Aquiring nullsec and defending nullsec is about fleet fights. Big fleet fights.
Glad we got that sorted, now to the point:
Adding eyecandy and dental floss to the current content doesn't do us any good if our very habitat is destroyed. Currently the rainforest that is 0.0 is so broken that we cannot function. No amount of extra feeding will save the animals that live there.
Thanks.
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Dragon Greg
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Posted - 2010.07.21 15:44:00 -
[1385]
Originally by: Celia Therone
2) CCP Abathur is team Mjollnir.
CCP Abathur left CCP. Just FYI.
Clusterf*ck: An orgy, as implemented by CCP. :-)
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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.07.21 15:48:00 -
[1386]
Originally by: Vadimik
Originally by: Berry Rydell
Edited by: Berry Rydell on 21/07/2010 15:09:40
If half the people who genuinely care about the future of the game actually cancelled their accounts as a sign of protest, you can bet CCP would be forced to sit up and take notice and respond positively and with some accountability to their customer base.
Note, cancelling your subscription has a lead time, so you will still be playing the game for a month (or more depending on your subscription) and can always re-subscribe before your precious lagged-out, broken mechanics and feature-ruined existence of carpel-tunnel induced PI clickage time ends (if you choose).
Cancelling your sub != quitting the game. Use the power of your wallet where it counts, not on a forum where you will be ignored.
The logs may show nothing, but I'm sure CCP's monthly business reports for # of cancelled accounts at end-July would be a worthy statistic.
You do realise that's borderline blackmailing, right? And that this may very well result in CCP simply not communicating their future plans to players to prevent this sort of provocative behaviour.
Oh, and haven't you, by chance, been playing SWG when NGE hit?
Well it least it would give Nathan some new metrics to look at. Ones that dont support the idea that pushing half-finished crap out of the door every few months is more profitable than producing a quality product.
And "blackmail"? LOL you make it sound as though we have some moral obligation to support a game we've not enjoyed for a while and are not likely to enjoy again for a good while yet.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Takseen
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Posted - 2010.07.21 15:53:00 -
[1387]
Originally by: Vadimik
Originally by: Berry Rydell
<snip>
use the power of your wallet where it counts, not on a forum where you will be ignored.
The logs may show nothing, but I'm sure CCP's monthly business reports for # of cancelled accounts at end-July would be a worthy statistic.
You do realise that's borderline blackmailing, right? And that this may very well result in CCP simply not communicating their future plans to players to prevent this sort of provocative behaviour.
Oh, and haven't you, by chance, been playing SWG when NGE hit?
Blackmailing, wut? Telling your service provider that you're not happy with the service they're providing and that you will cease to pay them for this service is perfectly normal behaviour. Blackmail is a criminal act. So I do kinda hope you're just trolling.
And I agree with the guy you quoted, cancelling your account is the strongest way to provide feedback. Actions speak louder than forum posts, especially when those actions cost CCP $14.95 a month or more.
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Celia Therone
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Posted - 2010.07.21 15:53:00 -
[1388]
Edited by: Celia Therone on 21/07/2010 15:54:17
Originally by: Dragon Greg
Originally by: Celia Therone
2) CCP Abathur is team Mjollnir.
CCP Abathur left CCP. Just FYI.
Thanks for the heads up, sorry I missed that development. Any background on when/why?
Don't suppose anyone has any remotely good news before the uncontrollable lemming impulse kicks in?
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DK Reborn
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Posted - 2010.07.21 15:53:00 -
[1389]
Subscription cancelled.
Incarna/Ambulation was supposed to be out years ago, and we wont even see it in its full glory until winter of 2011 no thanks. Not to mention you talk about all the future of eve in this blog yet practically no mention of winter 2010 all about 2011 and 2012 what gives?
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handbanana
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.07.21 15:55:00 -
[1390]
Originally by: Vadimik
You do realise that's borderline blackmailing, right?
The derp is strong in this one.
Originally by: CCP
excellence..
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Vadimik
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.21 15:56:00 -
[1391]
Originally by: Malcanis
And "blackmail"? LOL you make it sound as though we have some moral obligation to support a game we've not enjoyed for a while and are not likely to enjoy again for a good while yet.
No moral obligations implied.
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Cosmic Rainbow
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Posted - 2010.07.21 15:56:00 -
[1392]
Edited by: Cosmic Rainbow on 21/07/2010 15:57:53
Originally by: Vadimik
Originally by: Berry Rydell
Edited by: Berry Rydell on 21/07/2010 15:09:40
If half the people who genuinely care about the future of the game actually cancelled their accounts as a sign of protest, you can bet CCP would be forced to sit up and take notice and respond positively and with some accountability to their customer base.
Note, cancelling your subscription has a lead time, so you will still be playing the game for a month (or more depending on your subscription) and can always re-subscribe before your precious lagged-out, broken mechanics and feature-ruined existence of carpel-tunnel induced PI clickage time ends (if you choose).
Cancelling your sub != quitting the game. Use the power of your wallet where it counts, not on a forum where you will be ignored.
The logs may show nothing, but I'm sure CCP's monthly business reports for # of cancelled accounts at end-July would be a worthy statistic.
You do realise that's borderline blackmailing, right? And that this may very well result in CCP simply not communicating their future plans to players to prevent this sort of provocative behaviour.
Oh, and haven't you, by chance, been playing SWG when NGE hit?
Im not sure I see your point. Oh noes!! they might not listen to us? That just means I walk away from the game. Not really a big deal to me, there will be other games.
I wont play something I dont enjoy, nor will I play something that has such glaring issues with it, and watch CCP drive this game further down the sh*t hole.
Edit: What amazes me is you see this as some sort of ploy - cancelling my accounts. I see it as serious. Im prepared, as are a large number of other players, to walk away, which is why these issues are so important.
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Vadimik
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.21 16:03:00 -
[1393]
Please note the word "borderline" in my post.
Noone likes when they are being threaten in some course of action, even if it's "justified".
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Cosmic Rainbow
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Posted - 2010.07.21 16:06:00 -
[1394]
Originally by: Vadimik
Please note the word "borderline" in my post.
Noone likes when they are being threaten in some course of action, even if it's "justified".
That's the thing. I dont see anyone 'threatening" - its a reality. Its truth. Its honesty. CCP is facing a mass exodus of subscribers if they continue on their current path, therefore we, as players have a duty to give them a heads up and inform them of such. I dont see a threat there, I see reality.
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Vadimik
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.21 16:09:00 -
[1395]
Originally by: Cosmic Rainbow
That's the thing. I dont see anyone 'threatening" - its a reality. Its truth. Its honesty. CCP is facing a mass exodus of subscribers if they continue on their current path, therefore we, as players have a duty to give them a heads up and inform them of such. I dont see a threat there, I see reality.
Again, I have no problems with that. I can only support an honest feedback of this sort.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.07.21 16:21:00 -
[1396]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 21/07/2010 16:23:42
The thing is there doesnÆt have to be any losers here. Eve online has a very passionate and committed long term community that genuinely wants this game and the company behind it to succeed. IÆve been to their headquarters and gotten pleasantry drunk with these guys and I know they love the game and the universe theyÆve created too. Where we seem to have fallen out of sync with each other is in the priority given to completing promised content and following through on development commitments.
ThereÆs just so many times a long term player can be promised a full suite of features and content with a new expansion and then short-changed on the delivery by cuts and deletions that are never made good before a little cynicism begins to creep in and the expectation becomes that CCP will never deliver on future expansions as they have failed to deliver in the past.
And itÆs a big problem for all of us. If CCP and Eve Online ever did go under I highly doubt weÆd ever see a similar pvp-centric single server universe of this scope and complexity again. It took a certain degree of reckless bravado and impassioned crazy to get this company started and Eve Online produced and I think what we want to see more than anything now is a return to a more flexible and player-centric allocation of developer resources that follows through on the premise of the CSM (itself a reckless and crazy concept when all is said and done).
Players are not telling CCP they want previous expansions and content finished because they hate the company and loathe the game. Long term, committed, often multiple subscription holding players are simply expressing their view (here, and through the medium of the player-elected CSM) that they think CCP should allocate more development effort (and teams) to completing previously released content and making sure that the promises are kept in an excellent manner.
The rewards for doing this are massive. CCP would recapture some of the reputation its lost over the last couple of years, itÆd keep the long term customers happy and continuing to spread the word of this game through their enthusiasm and pleasure, and from what I know of the developers working for CCP, it would actually make them much happier knowing they could finish features to the benefit of the game rather than having to continually re-task and flit around the environment patching leaks rather than producing a full-featured quality product.
And make no mistake, the status quo isnÆt working. At the moment CCP is getting very bad press in the industry on the fallout from this. I was a bit shocked at just how cutting that Massively article was last week and it really showed the contrast with the hugely good press CCP was getting around about the time of CSM1 when they began their experiment with virtual democracy in the game universe.
I think it would be a huge mistake to completely ignore the current CSM issues on excellence and the senior management at CCP should think very carefully about making some changes to their development strategy and overtly dogmatic commitment to the somewhat miscategorised agile principle that has made them anything but agile in recent years.
Maybe take an afternoon looking at StardockÆs latest Beta cycle for Elemental War of Magic (which is a small budget 17 developer project entering its final crunch month for an August release) the lead developer Brad Wardell is currently managing 1-2 beta releases a week and its frankly astonishing to see this entirely custom 3d engine updating of the ancient Master of Magic game taking shape day by day with genuinely agile development and constant feedback and cooperative interactions with the beta testing group.
-cont
Join the Revolution!
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Jason1138
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Posted - 2010.07.21 16:21:00 -
[1397]
"Even if CCP fixed every little bug and balance issue, the total number of players that come back is much smaller than the potential *new* customers.
You make the assumption that all players who left did so because of server issues, bugs, or balance problems. When in fact most people don't play this game because it's a grind and takes months to become specialized, or the game just wasn't what they expected and didn't have the features they wanted."
as you said, most customers, including these "potential new customers" you're going on about, will leave when they realize the game is no fun til your 4th month or because the game wasn't what they expected
so i would offer that CCP already has a good percentage of the number of people who would be willing to pay to play Eve for years in the game, as of now
you're not gonna get some flood of school children signing up for 3 years because of Incarna. its stable loyal customers vs transient customers in larger numbers. i'm not sure they make more money with the transients, given the length of the free trials here
if you had to play to even get started i could see where it would make financial sense to trick people into an unplayable game with shiny but non functional features, just to get the constant roll over of first month's sub fees
but as it is, these new people will log on for free, hear from the bitter vets how fail it is, and leave. more often than not, i bet. i know i wouldn't be here now if someone had told me when i first logged in that CCP had no intention of working on the game at all for 2 years
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.07.21 16:21:00 -
[1398]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 21/07/2010 16:25:16
Continued from
Over the last couple of months IÆve watched this game take shape from a buggy 2d map crash fest into its current near release state with Brad explaining in 20 threads a week how each stage of the development and iteration come to pass. Its fascinating stuff and itÆs amazing how quick it is given itÆs a brand new engine, completely new game and its locked into its release schedule in August.
Now sure, Stardock is a little studio making stand alone games and not needing to support 200,000 players and 40,000 concurrent users etc etc. But still, they are building a whole new 3d engine and new product from the ground up in a few months. Why does it take CCP 18-24 months to commit to fixing content they released 2-3 years ago?
And these arenÆt big fixes in the main. FW needs some work on its complex and occupancy mechanics. It needs loopholes closed; it needs alliances involved to keep the numbers up and vital. It needs a bit more support on the background/RP side of things. Apocrypha needs more subsystems and ships. PVP needs some rebalancing and work on aggression mechanics û these range from numbers in the database to new aggression timers for Remote Repping aggressed people. Dominion needs the treaty system and some rebalance/diversification of objectives.
None of this stuff is comparable with writing an entirely new game for heavenÆs sake.
ItÆs just disappointing that the older and more established Eve Online has gotten the less exciting and dynamic the development process has become. Things have slowed down to a crawl; the developers seem terrified of any change. The producers seem to have gotten used to the idea of never finishing content. (Again IÆd ask these guys to go look at Stardock û Galactic Civilizations 2, an indie game product released with lots of promises that werenÆt entirely kept at release but were all patched in during the months after release with a cherry on top. At the end of the development cycle there they had probably the finest space 4x game yet made because they didnÆt abandon their release features list, they cherished it and made sure they used the money from sales to pay their developers to finish the job.)
And this kind of thing gets them a good reputation, so that when Brad Wardell put a half-baked tech demo and list of prospective features up for Elemental War of Magic before Christmas, I took one look and pre-ordered with 30 quid because I figured heÆs good for it on past accomplishment.
CCPÆs problem is that when they tell us that Incarna will be great in 18 months (or whatever) they are asking for 180 quid per account in faith that they will actually deliver the features theyÆve promised (this time) while asking us to forget about the last 3-4 occasions theyÆve delivered half-baked expansions that had important features cut out of the release patches and never completed.
In a way itÆs a testament to their charisma and cheeky chutzpah that we keep paying the subs û but end of the day, itÆs just money right? And internet spaceships is serious business.
End of the day, IÆd love to think that Brad and Hilmar might get together at a conference some time and have a sit down and chat about things. Stardock and CCP are two of my favourite developers still and I love their games û would be great to see CCP rediscovering the ability to be truly agile about content iteration and completing their game to the benefit of everyone involved.
Join the Revolution!
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.07.21 16:29:00 -
[1399]
Bugs be damned, Eve is still better than 99% of the crap out there. Dev blogs like this are much appreciated though.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.07.21 16:34:00 -
[1400]
Great post Jade (why does saying that feel so weird?). Stardock are a brilliant example of how collaborating with the player-base turns them in to a development asset, rather than a hostile mob.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Berry Rydell
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Posted - 2010.07.21 16:43:00 -
[1401]
Edited by: Berry Rydell on 21/07/2010 16:44:46
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 21/07/2010 16:25:16
CCPÆs problem is that when they tell us that Incarna will be great in 18 months (or whatever) they are asking for 180 quid per account in faith that they will actually deliver the features theyÆve promised...
^^ Good post overall, though:
Nobody who actually plays the game even wants those features! People want the features that are in-game now but DO NOT WORK.
People want to take part in a fleet fight without wasting their whole evening looking at a black screen or asking their mates on comms "can you see me, am I dead yet?".
If you add up all the time we spend in paralysis due to the state of the game engine, and the hours of grind it takes to earn the isk to put ourselves back into that state, I'm sure people would be astonished! (and in time to come question wtf we were doing with our lives)
It's no wonder that hardly anyone seriously wants to start a campaign in the current environment involving sov warfare, it's enough to make people want to kill themselves.
Then there is Technetium! Seriously, how hard is it to do the analysis and adjust the reference data tables to correct the incredible imbalance of what your previous 'R64 balancing effort' delivered.
Words cannot describe how massive a **** up this is and you (CCP) won't even acknowledge it. Frankly it should be a matter for internal affairs to investigate as I cannot accept that no-one was aware of the skew it would place in terms of resource benefit across the map. If it isn't corruption at its core then its gross incompetence (it's not even a code change, its reference data FFS!).
And then there's all the other stuff (read the last forty odd pages)...
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Monkey Saturday
Unknown Soldiers
The Spire Collective
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Posted - 2010.07.21 16:49:00 -
[1402]
Originally by: Vadimik
TBH, yes, I do see some of it as a ploy. (Not you or anyone in particular.) As long as it's not a ploy - I don't see it as borderline-anything either.
Ploy you say? This is a game and to hell with it. If they don't address these issues within the next 2 weeks this account will run out of plex time and that will be the end of eve for me.
Sad? Hells yes this game means a lot to me! Does it mean enough for me to keep paying for it in it's broken state? Even if YOU don't think it broken I DO and I just told CCP the only real way I can.
CCP lost 3 accounts and $44.85 a month from me. That money will go towards KOTOR when it comes out.
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Vadimik
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.21 16:50:00 -
[1403]
Originally by: Berry Rydell
^^ Good post overall, though:
Nobody who actually plays the game even wants those features!
...
I actually play the game and I want those feature.
And I'm pretty sure a fair number of players who don't have any real issues with current build and, thus, don't even post here, want them, too.
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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.07.21 16:54:00 -
[1404]
Originally by: Vadimik
Originally by: Berry Rydell
^^ Good post overall, though:
Nobody who actually plays the game even wants those features!
...
I actually play the game and I want those feature.
And I'm pretty sure a fair number of players who don't have any real issues with current build and, thus, don't even post here, want them, too.
And I'm pretty sure they don't. What now?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Vadimik
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.21 16:58:00 -
[1405]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Vadimik
Originally by: Berry Rydell
^^ Good post overall, though:
Nobody who actually plays the game even wants those features!
...
I actually play the game and I want those feature.
And I'm pretty sure a fair number of players who don't have any real issues with current build and, thus, don't even post here, want them, too.
And I'm pretty sure they don't. What now?
Now CCP will work over the next months to introduce features I want.
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PKlavins
Caldari
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.21 17:02:00 -
[1406]
Originally by: Vadimik
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Vadimik
Originally by: Berry Rydell
^^ Good post overall, though:
Nobody who actually plays the game even wants those features!
...
I actually play the game and I want those feature.
And I'm pretty sure a fair number of players who don't have any real issues with current build and, thus, don't even post here, want them, too.
And I'm pretty sure they don't. What now?
Now CCP will work over the next months to introduce features I want.
And therein lies the problem. More unfinished features over fixing existing ones = problem.
The new 7.5km web = web + scram = "Wamble".
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Mathhew Kane
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.07.21 17:06:00 -
[1407]
Rockets are broke, we can't walk in station, The game as we know it is going to die a horrible death because we don't have enough people working on it blah blah blah...however I don't think anyone is asking the right question. To everyone who is leaving the game...
Can I has your stuff?
--------------------------------------------------
Loyalty is simply slavery of ones own choosing. If ever you have the choice, Choose your master well."
My Step Father, Isikile Kane.
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.07.21 17:10:00 -
[1408]
Originally by: Vadimik
Now CCP will work over the next months to introduce features I want.
They will make foundations for the features that you want.
Then they will leave it at that, foundations.
--
Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Lorebook - Mysteries of W-space |
Uicjhorra
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Posted - 2010.07.21 17:11:00 -
[1409]
Originally by: Mathhew Kane
Rockets are broke, we can't walk in station, The game as we know it is going to die a horrible death because we don't have enough people working on it blah blah blah...however I don't think anyone is asking the right question. To everyone who is leaving the game...
Can I has your stuff?
No.
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Vadimik
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.21 17:12:00 -
[1410]
Edited by: Vadimik on 21/07/2010 17:12:43
Originally by: PKlavins
Originally by: Vadimik
Originally by: Malcanis
And I'm pretty sure they don't. What now?
Now CCP will work over the next months to introduce features I want.
And therein lies the problem. More unfinished features over fixing existing ones = problem.
Still, it's better than any other MMORPG in the market (I'm aware of).
Quote:
They will make foundations for the features that you want.
Then they will leave it at that, foundations.
I'll take my chances with foundations over no features at all.
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