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Celestine Santora
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Posted - 2010.07.16 23:15:00 -
[1]
I'm sure this has been brought up before, but it seems like the game engine in EVE does a terrible job of demonstrating the scale of both size and speed, among other things.
When you're flying a frigate, you think of it as a small ship, in reality it's pretty damn big. There are some videos that I'm sure most of you have seen about putting EVE ships to scale in a more Earth-like environment like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPeb547pis0
But to play EVE, you'd never know it. Flying a frigate looks almost the same as flying a battleship. The camera is automatically scaled to the point where they take up roughly the same amount of screen.
And on to speed. Americans (myself included) do a bad job at conceptualizing speeds in meters/sec. Here's some quick translations:
"Slowboating" your industrial at 110 m/s is around 250 MPH, faster than most sports cars topping out. Now let's hop to the other end of the scale. Let's say we have a interceptor (or dramiel lols) in ideal conditions with an overheated MWD doing 10,000 m/s. That's 22,000 MPH. I mean god damn, flying an interceptor feels fast but not THAT fast.
I can't think of any fantastic ways to fix this but it seems like EVE would be so much more awesome if the magnitude of the things you were doing or flying was presented accurately.
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ThisIsNotMyAlt
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Posted - 2010.07.16 23:25:00 -
[2]
i agree in general but i think it got alot better with the trinity upgrade due to the higher ship details provide some reference points, like little windows, light emitting points, small antenna-like structures etc..
for example the current version of the punisher, if you zoom into it you see like the litte windows on it where light is emitting from. this gives some sense of scale |
Jade Kitana
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Posted - 2010.07.16 23:30:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Jade Kitana on 16/07/2010 23:30:13
 Originally by: Celestine Santora
I can't think of any fantastic ways to fix this...
O'rly, well maybe that's the problem.
Question, does it seem like you are flying 500mph when you are in a jet at 35,000 feet?
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Cebraio
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Posted - 2010.07.16 23:31:00 -
[4]
I think it's quite normal that in space, there is a lot of space (d'oh!) and when there is a lot of space around you, speed doesn't feel as fast as it would be in a narrow environment.
Though I understand your point about m/s. When I, as a metric system inhabitant, see my autopilot land 15km of a gate (damn that's far here on earth, i.e 9.3 miles) and I hit the MWD, I feels pretty fast to me. I can imagine that it's more arbitrary for you.
On the other hand I can't really imagine how heavy a quarter-pounder with cheese feels.
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Owen Drakkar
Terra Nostra
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Posted - 2010.07.16 23:37:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Cebraio
On the other hand I can't really imagine how heavy a quarter-pounder with cheese feels.
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Come shoot at me, I live in Heimatar. Please? |
Decimo
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.07.16 23:53:00 -
[6]
Also the brightness and size of stars from long distances away is pretty off.
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Celestine Santora
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Posted - 2010.07.16 23:54:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Cebraio
On the other hand I can't really imagine how heavy a quarter-pounder with cheese feels.
Bah quarter pound burgers are snack food. I like to scarf down 1.5 pounders at a local burger place
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cyndrogen
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Posted - 2010.07.17 00:09:00 -
[8]
Cues which allow you to judge scale, such as depth fading, atmospheric haze and fog and other objects as reference are not present in space. One way to get a sense of scale of the ships would be through lighting. Placing spot lights on the ships would help somewhat fix this problem.
example:
http://blog.calgarypubliclibrary.com/blogs/movie_maniacs/star_trek_03_1024.jpg
Notice how the ship has a spot light on top of the ship and one underneath the main saucer section?
This helps to give a sense of scale and breaks up the even surface of the ship.
also visual markers, letters corp logos and other stuff further help to give a sense of scale.
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Calathea Sata
State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.07.17 00:13:00 -
[9]
If they unify the sizes of "windows" (those little lights running across the hulls) it'd be a good reference of the size of the ship.
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Julius Rigel
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Posted - 2010.07.17 00:27:00 -
[10]
"Mr. Hughes! Mr. Hughes! We have clouds! Clouds in Auckland!"
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SammyullJackson
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Posted - 2010.07.17 00:34:00 -
[11]
Edited by: SammyullJackson on 17/07/2010 00:35:22
I'm sure everyone's seen 'em by now, but these clips:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOJIyTHgwGQ
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPeb547pis0
give a good sense of scale.
Granted, you don't have an island in space to reference against, but the point stands...
I just need to remember to look for that Resizing Tool because I downloaded the EVE ships for GMod, and I want to try that stuff for myself.
The CryEngine 2 stuff I'm not even gonna bother with, because judging from the video and what I've found when I look it up, it's... complicated.
EDIT: As you can see from the Avatar in the CryEngine vid, it is so spacious that a human can skydive in it.
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Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar
The Kairos Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.07.17 01:00:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Barkaial Starfinder on 17/07/2010 01:02:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0O3Xl6a4wc&feature=related
Pretty cool this video is.
To make scale better percepted ingame, EVE would need a better lever of detail to make textures good at close looks.
Also the camera view should be reworked to give players total control when in advanced camera mode.
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CCP Casqade
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Posted - 2010.07.17 01:13:00 -
[13]
There is a way to change the scaling a bit by adjusting the camera. Try:
Holding Ctrl, holding down both mouse buttons and pulling the mouse to the right.
It does make approaching stargates and doing flybys a lot cooler looking, but doesn't work well in combat situations where you want more awareness of your position and your surroundings.
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Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar
The Kairos Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.07.17 01:28:00 -
[14]
Originally by: CCP Casqade
There is a way to change the scaling a bit by adjusting the camera. Try:
Holding Ctrl, holding down both mouse buttons and pulling the mouse to the right.
It does make approaching stargates and doing flybys a lot cooler looking, but doesn't work well in combat situations where you want more awareness of your position and your surroundings.
Pro tip
I had forgotten how to do that lol.
Thanks
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Stitcher
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2010.07.17 01:46:00 -
[15]
wow! that made a huge difference. thanks, Casqade.
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Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
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Vigilant Akira
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Posted - 2010.07.17 01:47:00 -
[16]
Yeah, i vote to unify the size of the windows, and differentiate them from "lights/blinkenlights".
The fact that window sizes are (apparently) different on battleships than frigates i find as both annoying and immersion breaking.
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Kai Saito
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.17 01:52:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Kai Saito on 17/07/2010 01:53:21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc0vpiL_v2I&feature=related
The clip above is from SWG I think (Don't quote me on that). The detail on the Star Destroyer is pretty good for an MMO and the stretched FOV helps convey the scale of the ship. Being able to fly a small ship alongside a huge battleship is something I adored about the old X-wing games.
I've never flown a Frigate vs anything larger than a Battleship in Eve. When fighting something really big in Eve, is it close to the vid linked above? (Long strafing runs while taking in all the detail of the massive ships).
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2010.07.17 02:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kai Saito
Stuff
It is from SWG, though a good pilot with RE'd equipment kills it in under 90 seconds rather than 6 minutes.
And it's not the same in EVE, since there's no reason for strafing runs in order to aim for subsystems. Plus, you already know that because EVE battleships are the same size as an ISD.
Originally by: Signature
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Pj Harvey
Amarr
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.07.17 02:30:00 -
[19]
one problem that has irked me since I started and contributes to the scale issue is the fact the camera moves in a stepped way, its not smooth and makes the game feel weightless, a heavier camera movement like in nexus the jupiter incident would do wonders to make the game feel 'heavier' so to speak, like in this video
another reason for it is ships in eve dont move like ships they move like sprites, they dont turn properly or have a turning circle so they feel weightless.
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Aerilis
Gallente
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.07.17 02:35:00 -
[20]
Originally by: CCP Casqade
There is a way to change the scaling a bit by adjusting the camera. Try:
Holding Ctrl, holding down both mouse buttons and pulling the mouse to the right.
It does make approaching stargates and doing flybys a lot cooler looking, but doesn't work well in combat situations where you want more awareness of your position and your surroundings.
Oh god what did i do i am not good with computer
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Pyrilius
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.07.17 02:53:00 -
[21]
Using ATI's Eyefinity and three monitors does a ton to help with a sense of scale. To the point it feels cramped when I have to play it/watch it on a different setup. Everything seems bigger while your ship feels smaller...
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BrundleMeth
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
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Posted - 2010.07.17 03:04:00 -
[22]
Edited by: BrundleMeth on 17/07/2010 03:04:20
Speaking of scale my girlfriend just doesn't grasp (litterly) the meaning of inches (12) versus centimetres (12)...
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Zeredek
Gallente
Vanguard Venture
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Posted - 2010.07.17 03:07:00 -
[23]
Originally by: BrundleMeth
Edited by: BrundleMeth on 17/07/2010 03:04:20
Speaking of scale my girlfriend just doesn't grasp (litterly) the meaning of inches (12) versus centimetres (12)...
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Shady deals? IN MY EVE ONLINE? I don't believe it.
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Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.17 04:36:00 -
[24]
I just want stations to scale...
It irritates me to see that some battleships hit to top of the un-dock port if that was truly to scale....
CCP needs to redo most of the stations' un-dock ports and BEEF up the scale of all stations in general!
IMHO
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mechtech
SRS Industries
SRS.
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Posted - 2010.07.17 06:33:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Zendoren
I just want stations to scale...
It irritates me to see that some battleships hit to top of the un-dock port if that was truly to scale....
CCP needs to redo most of the stations' un-dock ports and BEEF up the scale of all stations in general!
IMHO
Totally agreed on this point. TBH I think planets seem pretty small compared to other space games (http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/12/11862/x3screen00265.jpg), and moons are really really small. Like, if I zoom out my ship, the moon zooms too.
All celestial objects should be large enough so that zooming the camera out doesn't change the size of the celestial body. That destroys any sense of scale.
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