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Traejun DiSanctis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2012.07.24 00:27:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:Canabi wrote:I agree with the responses that have been posted stating that they should not be intrduced, nor should any other Tech 3 variation. What I don't understand is why people like to throw around the term "game breaking." What is so game breaking about the current Tech 3 lineup? The Tengu and PvE, generally.
Between space camo and Tengu QQ, I am so tired of reading your posts, it hurts.
On subjects other than those two, please continue to post freely. |
Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
171
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 01:16:00 -
[32] - Quote
I understand and support waiting until the other ships have had their balance pass. However, I think there are a handful of roles that current Frigate hulls do poorly, or at least non-optimally.
1. PVE in general. PVE is boring; zipping around a l3 mission in an AF can make it a bit more exciting, and also give frigate-specialized pilots a better way to isk with their training. T3 frigates would be perfect for targeting this niche.
2. Lowsec Exploration. Specifically, an all-in-one explorer. Currently, recons like the Pilgrim are the best at this, and that's by virtue of it being a drone boat so it can get away with filling it's slots with probe and salvage mods. None of the current probing frigates are combat-capable, and the T3 cruisers are too skill and cost intensive to invest into for the moderate rewards of low sec.
Target cost range should be about 50m isk, plus about 5m each for the subsystems. 3 subs tops. Offensive, Defensive, Engineering/Electronics. Their raw power should not exceed current AF hulls. The benefit would be the ability to customize, and to add utility such as probes, salvagers (low sp marauder?), and whatever other goodies you smart designers can come up with. There would need to be a PVP oriented penalty; increased sig radius from MWD, capacitor drains while scrammed/webbed (unstable advanced propulsion systems...), or something. There's no other way to give it the needed power without obsoleting other frigates. This ship would have a small target audience, but it would be popular as a toy, and as a stepping stone into more advanced ship types for the lower skilled (5m sp or so) characters. |
Hawelt
Aurum Robotics
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 03:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
I'd rather see some modular (not necesarily being T3) industrial command/capital ships.
Think orca/rorqual but with customizable capabilities.
I.e. trade-offs between:
ship maintenance, corporate hangars, cargo hold and speciality holds
Modules for special capabilities:
These would mostly be balanced by skill requirements, being rather expensive and limited effectiveness.
Of course some of them would be mutually exclusive.
Command Bonus
Mining/Harvesting Hardpoints (think veldnaught, it'd be quite inefficient, less effective than a mining barge but still neat, products would end up in a special hold of limited size to make afk mining impossible)
Improved Cloaking/Probing
Clone Vats
Industrial jobs
Jump Drives / Warp Speed / AB / MWD / Agility Propulsion Modules
Force Fields
- mimics a large POS with ship maintenance & corporate hangars only,
- consumes fuel
- No shield reinforcing
- can un/anchor itself at moons
- basically an alternative to a POS for nomadic w-space gameplay
You'd get all the cool stuff an orca alt can do but depending on your wallet it could do a few additional and expensive tricks.
Also it would look very shiny. |
Cpt Branko
Zawa's Fan Club
28
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 09:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
You see, frigates, and T1 frigates at that, are more or less essential for the "new player experience". Many of the PVPers today which are worth a damn started flying those, and back then, since T2 frigates were not really worthwhile and you could kill approximately half of them with a Rifter, and pirate/navy faction frigates were just showoff gimmicks... T1 frigate PVP was quite enjoyable. Worthwhile, too. You could make ISK and learn the mechanics flying in Rifters.
Fast-forward to now. Pirate faction frigs are superior to anything frigsized T1, by far. T2 frigs got boosted in many respects, especially the lacking ones, but they're also more expensive then ever. For over 30mil per frigate, it is not a "new player friendly" ship. The old advice of "buy 50 Rifters (or any t1 frig), ship them over to lowsec, start pew-pewing" doesn't work anymore. This is already bad.
Now add T3 frigs; with probable prices of 100 million a pop, they're essentially bored old veteran toys. However, unlike large bored old veteran toys, they have the scan res and agility and speed to hunt and kill people which are supposed to earn their wings in T1 hulls. That is just a bad idea. |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
62
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 09:44:00 -
[35] - Quote
I'll pit my Caldari Navy Hookbill and/or my Ishkur against any pirate frig and I can guarantee that I will be vicktor. I would even say that a properly flown Merlin or Incursus could probably give a few pirate and navy frigs a run for their money now. |
Saile Litestrider
Finest Kobold Engineering
45
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 15:32:00 -
[36] - Quote
Schalac wrote:I'll pit my Caldari Navy Hookbill and/or my Ishkur against any pirate frig and I can guarantee that I will be vicktor. I would even say that a properly flown Merlin or Incursus could probably give a few pirate and navy frigs a run for their money now.
Probably? A few? Only when "properly flown"? I think those are the exact problems Cpt Branko is talking about. |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
62
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 07:44:00 -
[37] - Quote
Saile Litestrider wrote:Schalac wrote:I'll pit my Caldari Navy Hookbill and/or my Ishkur against any pirate frig and I can guarantee that I will be vicktor. I would even say that a properly flown Merlin or Incursus could probably give a few pirate and navy frigs a run for their money now. Probably? A few? Only when "properly flown"? I think those are the exact problems Cpt Branko is talking about.
What do you want? For tech 1 frigs to be able to kill all class of ships? I see how it is, you want to get into a condor, tackle someone and hit the orbit button and F1 and fly away with a killmail. That's not going to happen, and yes you do have to know how to properly fly a frigate to expect to win a fight. These are not problems of the ships, these are problems of the players controlling them. |
Crove
Itoen
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 07:54:00 -
[38] - Quote
Canabi wrote:Not concerned with PvE and being "game breaking." It doesn't really affect any other player as PvE can be done solo. As far as the Tengu is concerened. What exactly breaks the game?
This is the worst argument ever in an MMO with one of the best simulated economies in gaming space. |
Cpt Branko
Zawa's Fan Club
28
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 08:03:00 -
[39] - Quote
Schalac wrote:For tech 1 frigs to be able to kill all class of ships?
No, just for them to stop introducing power level plus one frigates. It would be normal if a potential T3 100 mil frig would eat up all other frigs, that's not an argument for making T1 frigs kill them all, but rather an argument against introducing T3 frigs, which is the topic of the thread.
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Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
Gank for Profit
16
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Posted - 2012.07.26 12:06:00 -
[40] - Quote
I see many many ways to make t3 frigates work without just trumping all others just doing it like with t3 cruisers without making them have a super tank and spank should work just fine
lets see
probing subsystem making them able to probe well and have an assault ship strength tank at the same time hear me not more tank the same
the idea for t3 should be to make one ship be able to fill two rolls, versatility, which does not not have to mean OP right away
another thing would be covops cloak (controversial I know) and the ability to be blacktops bridged and light a black ops cyno
or how about a small resistance to webing
of course they would somewhat replace their t2 counterparts but if that hasn't been the issue in the past other ways t3 cruisers should have never been made
on a side note id rather have frigate/battleship like subsystems for the existing t3s that could be mixed and matched and would change the shape and size drastically
that would allow for cool things like a cruiser sized destroyer with eight guns and a web bonus (for minmatar) stuff like that
or even a battleship with med or small guns getting big bonuses for it
I don't think frigates with battleship guns would work well tho 
even though it has been done before with stealth bombers mmmh 
when t3 cruiser where first announced I was also quite sad that there where actually four racial variants and not just one hull you could plug in the different races subsystems and mix them around though looking back on it now it seems better how it is now |
groundhunter
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 06:22:00 -
[41] - Quote
Make T3 frigs logistic role and no skill loss, they might be seen a lot more in frigate gangs that dont welp so fast |
Line Pettersen
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 13:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
IMO something along the lines of a T3 Ore would be awesome, I don't mean a mining vessel but something separate from the normal Amarr / Minmatar / Caldari / Gallente setup allowing you to effectively combine different racial specialities/bonuses in to one ship. But in a clearly defined "weaker" way then what is possible for the normal ships.
For instance you could combine the Minmatar Webbing range bonus of the minmatar Loki (Except it's 15% per skill level instead of 30) with the drone damage / HP bonus of gallente. Except you'd get 7,5% instead of 10% and so on. |
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