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45thtiger 0109
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Posted - 2010.07.17 17:02:00 -
[1]
Hey Guys
I thought about away that ccp could fix the PI click Fest Problem.
Is that we would hold the shift key down and the left mouse button to highlight all extractors only and use the right mouse key to bring up the timer UI to sellect the time for all extractors to start at the same time.
This could work but it might not.
I know allot of people will troll this thread.
So please give some thoughts about if this is a good idea.
Regards From 45thtiger 0109
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Dristra
Amarr Idle Haven
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Posted - 2010.07.17 17:38:00 -
[2]
Sounds great.
So a sort of "mark all extractors" functions then.
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45thtiger 0109
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Posted - 2010.07.17 18:11:00 -
[3]
Edited by: 45thtiger 0109 on 17/07/2010 18:11:11
Originally by: Dristra Sounds great.
So a sort of "mark all extractors" functions then.
Thats right that would make PI allot easy to do.
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Party Scout
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Posted - 2010.07.17 18:32:00 -
[4]
Yes please... I'll take anything at this point to reduce the pointless clickfest :(
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Quadtro
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Posted - 2010.07.18 15:58:00 -
[5]
how about making it more like mining moons with pos. Setup and continual mining versus having to go back to it ever 30 min 5 hour 24 hour or 3 days.
If you want to have a mining variance then have it set on longer timelines instead of forced interaction with it ever day or several times a day.
Some of us really do not like the farmtown games on FB and this s just a game called planet town, but we have to interface with it if we want to build things or run a pos inside of profit margins.
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Lohrant
Minmatar Kotar Engineering
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Posted - 2010.07.19 13:00:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Lohrant on 19/07/2010 13:06:41 Reposting my reply from http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1355158&page=1#9
I now have 60 extractors divided on 5 planets, and I must say this gets horribly tedious. As I know you use a lot of python at CCP, I hope the following "pseudo-python" makes sense:
scienceindustry.click() planettab.click() for planet in planettab: ....planet.doubleclick() ....for extractor in planet.extractors: ........cyclechoices = extractor.doubleclick() ........cyclechoice["5 hour cycle"].doubleclick() ....submitbutton.click()
This is basically what I go through manually a couple of times a day. This amounts to at least 257 clicks each run-through.
I would love to change this process to something like:
scienceindustry.click() planettab.click() for planet in planettab: ....planet.doubleclick() ....planet.commandcenter.click() ....masssurvey = planet.commandcenter.masssurvey.click() ....masssurvey["5 hour cycle"].doubleclick() ....submitbutton.click()
Notice the nested for loops have been eliminated for the player! Which would amount to just 37 clicks per run-through!
For those not-code-savvy amoung us, this reads as:
open science & technology window click planets tab double-click planet click command center click mass survey doubleclick 5 hour extraction click submit repeat for each planet
Another optimization could be to have a double-click on the command center trigger the mass survey. And a final optimization could be to have a mass survey button in the planets tab, which surveyed on all the planets at once.
NB! As the forum removes consecutive spaces, indentation spaces have been replaced with dots. Also, my post breaks if I make the link clickable...?!
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drakey
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Posted - 2010.07.22 11:29:00 -
[7]
seriously, ccp made a deal with the mouse manufacturers .. i bet mouse sales are skyrocketing :D
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45thtiger 0109
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Posted - 2010.07.23 12:29:00 -
[8]
Originally by: drakey seriously, ccp made a deal with the mouse manufacturers .. i bet mouse sales are skyrocketing :D
LOL very true
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K'ven
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Posted - 2010.07.23 13:06:00 -
[9]
this is an issue. Any of the solutions presented would resolve it. The current interface simply isn't adding to the game at all, and serves no purpose (I refuse to believe that the barrier in PI is annoyance.)
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Conan Piter
Ways and Means
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Posted - 2010.07.23 22:21:00 -
[10]
I don't think that the PI "clickfest" is a problem, or unintentional. There are many ways to make ISK in Eve and this is just one option. Like all options, there is cost and return. PI, at the primary industry level, has very little ISK cost and therefore I assume the true cost is intentionally physical effort.
What you are suggesting is taking away a good portion of that cost. The effect will be more people doing it and you will earn less ISK. Is that what you want?
In the POS business the cost is quite a lot of ISK. If you want that style of industry, why not just get a POS?
I personally find all the clicking rather off-putting and I might be giving up on PI because of this (depending on where profitability goes), which is great for my competitors. But automating clicking is not the answer. There needs to be some sort of cost, and most of the other forms of cost I can think of have already been used for other forms of industry.
Some people have asked for more thinking instead of clicking, but the problem is that only one person has to think and publish how they did it. How do you turn thinking into continuous effort?
Perhaps the answer is resource depletion, requiring you to constantly re-design your system. But is that preferable? I don't know, but I do know the answer isn't just to get rid of the clicking part. This is a player market driven economy and if there is no cost there will be no return.
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Lohrant
Minmatar Kotar Engineering
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Posted - 2010.07.24 12:46:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Lohrant on 24/07/2010 12:47:45 You're right, in mining the cost is time and risk of being blown up (at least in low sec). In missions the cost is again time and risk of being blown up. In market manipulation the cost is knowing how the market reacts to certain events, and the risk of the market doing the opposite. In PvP the cost is the risk of being blown up. In manufacturing the cost is having the blueprints, and buying the components and materials. In invention the cost is again buying the components and materials, and also the risk of not having a successful invention.
In PI though, the cost is clicks (physical effort), where as I would think the intended cost is actually keeping the network going. If you can keep your network going on the 30 minute cycle time, it would reap a lot more profit, compared to the 3 day cycle. The profits from PI is rather small as I see it, and I'm definitely thinking about whether it's actually profitable time wise. I have been running my 5 planets for a while, and I have definitely not earned the setup costs back yet.
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Varis Idle
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.07.26 08:25:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Conan Piter
I personally find all the clicking rather off-putting and I might be giving up on PI because of this (depending on where profitability goes), which is great for my competitors. But automating clicking is not the answer. There needs to be some sort of cost, and most of the other forms of cost I can think of have already been used for other forms of industry.
Some people have asked for more thinking instead of clicking, but the problem is that only one person has to think and publish how they did it. How do you turn thinking into continuous effort?
Why not use a cost that is already tested and tried in other industry? Would make it easier to balance too because CCP knows how much of it is needed.
I don't think you can just publish your thinking for PI. There's different kinds of resources, there's different distributions of resources on a planet, there's different kinds of production chains, there's changing market conditions, there's changing pirate activity patterns - players have to adapt whatever others have published and they have to react to changing conditions.
In low-sec, one cost is the time spent in evasion and the risk of hauling in a valuable ship (the actual planetary produce might be worth less than your hauler). Hisec operations don't have this risk, and in nullsec - either a quiet w-space system or friendly sov - the risk may actually be lower. So the independent low-sec industrialist is losing again.
There should be other kinds of costs introduced. Costly high-end command centers. More skills required. Etc. Also an overheating/breakdown mechanism for extractors/factories would make sense. Anything that isn't straightforward clicking would make PI more sensible and more fun. CCP should repeat the mistakes of mission running and mining for this profession as well.
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Ratchman
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Posted - 2010.07.26 10:06:00 -
[13]
I wholeheartedly agree with the OP. A drag-select option would be a very useful addition.
Some are arguing that clicking is the investment that you make in PI, but I disagree. Yes, the other revenue streams have some form of investment, but they are far more rewarding than PI. Planetary Interaction is a low-income passive revenue stream that doesn't require quite as much investment in time.
Deliberately adding excessive clicking is poor design. No-one would expect a modern spreadsheet to force the user to select each cell individually, when it is much easier to drag-select. Yes, you do need to have some form of interaction with the user, so that they can confirm what is to be done, and to prevent it from being too easily 'macro-ed'. However, you cannot use the argument that more clicks means less chance of the process being automated, as if they can automate 1-click, then they can automate 100. In fact, I would argue that it increases the chances of automation, as the players do not want to be reduced to the level of bots, repeatedly performing the same task over and over. Make a task more arduous, and people will be more motivated to circumvent it.
I think the excessive clicking issue was simply not thought of at the time by the developers. Given time, I think they will implement some form of group-select, as it makes sense.
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Arushia
Nova Labs New Eden Research.
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Posted - 2010.07.28 16:06:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ratchman
I think the excessive clicking issue was simply not thought of at the time by the developers. Given time, I think they will implement some form of group-select, as it makes sense.
I agree. EVE has always been criticized for poor UI, and PI just demonstrates CCP's usual interface design skills. Just as weapon grouping and scan history, I expect there will be improvements eventually.
New Eden Research, where your research gets done! |
Scubadiver
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Posted - 2010.07.29 04:56:00 -
[15]
This so needs to be done let us click on the command centers and select the times we want from there and have them contro the extractors
I give this a 2 thumbs up
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CommanderCK
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Posted - 2010.07.29 20:46:00 -
[16]
Signed.
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