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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Neliel Soifon
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Posted - 2010.07.22 13:50:00 -
[1]
Subject says pretty much everything: i'm not in PI, but i only read about people not happy, saying that PI is boring and sucks and so on.
But, what does CCP think about the whole thing?
Are you happy with PI?
Do you care for what people say?
Do you plan to change anything in future? ( i don't think you are gonna answer this question, but an answer to the first one would be appreciated ).
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Camios
Minmatar
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
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Posted - 2010.07.22 13:52:00 -
[2]
Wrong assumptions. I'm happy with PI.
There should be a lot of ways to expand it, and a way to reduce the number of clicks you need, but I like to play with it as it is.
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Ti'anla
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.22 13:57:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Ti''anla on 22/07/2010 14:03:29
A: Some people like PI - like, say, me and the above poster.
B: I don't think there's any question as to whether or not the developers are happy with PI, given it has an entire, dedicated development team.
EDIT: And as the immediately below says, there is of course room for improvement.. and as the person below that post said.. well, yeah, exactly.
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Krixal
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Posted - 2010.07.22 13:59:00 -
[4]
as the above two posters I also like PI. Of course as with everything there are improvements i would like to make, but you should not make such vast assumptions!
War is not about dying for your faction, its about making the enemy die for theirs. |
War Kitten
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Posted - 2010.07.22 13:59:00 -
[5]
Do some reading on your topic.
PI was advertised in the beginning to be a first-pass implementation with more to come.
It has been stated many times that PI will be iterated on in at least the next dev cycle if not more.
It has been acknowledged that the click-storm is annoying and the UI for PI will be improved upon. |
Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.07.22 14:05:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: War Kitten
It has been acknowledged that the click-storm is annoying and the UI for PI will be improved upon.
Can you link that?
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.22 14:07:00 -
[7]
Hey guys
My team worked on the first implementation and we're happy with the groundwork we put down. I think it's a nifty little feature and gives people another source of income that's relatively easy to manage and lets small time production people become somewhat self sufficient.
As stated by another poster, we are dedicated to improving planetary interaction. Our sister team is working on another iteration for the coming release, so you should see improvements as early as this winter. The benefit for us of doing subsequent releases of PI, is that we can do improvements not just based on our own thoughts, but based on your feedback. Keep it coming, we're reading :)
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Kerdrak
Big Guns Inc.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.22 14:10:00 -
[8]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Hey guys
My team worked on the first implementation and we're happy with the groundwork we put down. I think it's a nifty little feature and gives people another source of income that's relatively easy to manage and lets small time production people become somewhat self sufficient.
That's the problem. It's too easy and too repetitive. I prefer if it's more complicated but less repetitive.
________________________________________
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Ti'anla
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.22 14:10:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Ti''anla on 22/07/2010 14:11:30
Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: War Kitten
It has been acknowledged that the click-storm is annoying and the UI for PI will be improved upon.
Can you link that?
Minutes: CSM 5 / CCP Summit
Page 11/29, 11:30 / 12:30, 'Future of PI':
'In the immediate future, CCP plans to improve player control, move away from the annoying click-fest, and enable personalization upgrades and progressing pins over time.'
Enjoy ^^
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Bluefix
Gnu Terror Corps
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Posted - 2010.07.22 14:11:00 -
[10]
Setting up PI is reasonably entertaining. Maintaining it is however infinite boredom.
Hopefully they will automate/reduce clicking to maintenance and add some sort of maintenance that require actual brain acitivity.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.07.22 14:21:00 -
[11]
They just need to start adding the good stuff to it, like, maybe, potentially, T3 frigates?
No large amounts of isk or fun items to be made through it as yet, and that's why people aren't very motivated.
Oh, and please don't pay attention to the 'clickfest' crowd which suddenly appeared. It's fine as is. Those people have no idea how many times they click their mouse in the average day if they think a couple hundred is a huge amount.
My deepest sympathies.
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.07.22 14:22:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kerdrak
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Hey guys
My team worked on the first implementation and we're happy with the groundwork we put down. I think it's a nifty little feature and gives people another source of income that's relatively easy to manage and lets small time production people become somewhat self sufficient.
That's the problem. It's too easy and too repetitive. I prefer if it's more complicated but less repetitive.
This.. I mean, what was the purpose behind extractor cycle times again? All it does is create reptition where it isn't needed, and promotes macros with the 30 min cycles 
Now if extractors kept extracting indefinately, but slowly depleted the available resources on that spot, it might be different, and gives more incentive to find unpopulated planets (remote low-sec/0.0/WH space)
either way, the clickfest has to go.
- Malyutka (The Virus) - |
Camios
Minmatar
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
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Posted - 2010.07.22 14:30:00 -
[13]
My feedback about PI
Improvement to current systems
1. It would be useful to have an option to start all the extractors on a planets, or at least all the extractor of a given type on a given planet, without having to click each one to do the same thing 5 or even 15 times.
Future addition
2. Someone told us about population control. Is it in the next expansion? (I think not).
3. Someone told us about real multiplayer features, as trade pins for example.
4. I personally would like to shoot structures and to be shoot back by planetary defences, this should happen much before DUST arrives. Is this somewhere in the backlog?
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Amicus Morte
Shock an Awe
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Posted - 2010.07.22 14:45:00 -
[14]
RSI sufferer WTB PI Macro. 
Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenĘt built for this!
Clear Skies - The Movie
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Raven Pox
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Posted - 2010.07.22 15:17:00 -
[15]
I think this iteration of PI is an early version of it's eventual form.
As it was dreamed, PI is supposed to be like a sim-cityish kind of game all unto itself. Something eve players could/can do exclusively to make isk...
Yes, it takes place directly in the eve universe, but I think eventually it'll be like a micro sim-city..
Here's another thought. Phone app. We've been told that CCP plans to develop games for the handheld iphone/android market.
An android/iphone PI app. Reset extractors and manage colonies from your phone.
I think complaining now is like complaining about a wooden bicycle. It's not exactly all worked out yet. Give it some time...
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.07.22 15:18:00 -
[16]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Hey guys
My team worked on the first implementation and we're happy with the groundwork we put down. I think it's a nifty little feature and gives people another source of income that's relatively easy to manage and lets small time production people become somewhat self sufficient.
As stated by another poster, we are dedicated to improving planetary interaction. Our sister team is working on another iteration for the coming release, so you should see improvements as early as this winter. The benefit for us of doing subsequent releases of PI, is that we can do improvements not just based on our own thoughts, but based on your feedback. Keep it coming, we're reading :)
The whole concept of PI is an evolutionary dead end from a gaming standpoint within Eve.
It's too simple and if it were to be made more complex, it would have even less value as it takes away from the core gameplay of Eve. The massive amount of development time spent on PI could have been BETTER SPENT on more important issues to players like GAME BALANCE.
The admission by CCP via the latest dev blog that there are basically zero resources devoted to game balance and the fact that there isn't going to be any for the next year and a half or so is so galling it disgusts me.
The player base is so transparent and easy to please. All you have to do is read the forums to get plenty of issues to work on. Balancing the game is just as important as improving it technically. A balanced game where the items are fun and useful is just as important as a bug free game that has good performance. Sometimes doubly so.
I think that players as a whole would like more resources devoted to game balance. I know I would.
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Originally by: Bellum Eternus
That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Amicus Morte
Shock an Awe
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Posted - 2010.07.22 15:21:00 -
[17]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
...Our sister team is working on another iteration for the coming release, so you should see improvements as early as this winter.
Well, at least it's faster than 18 months...
Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenĘt built for this!
Clear Skies - The Movie
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.07.22 15:50:00 -
[18]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
The benefit for us of doing subsequent releases of PI, is that we can do improvements not just based on our own thoughts, but based on your feedback. Keep it coming, we're reading :)
First of all, let's be clear that the decision to introduce PI, I think everyone is fine or happy with it. What everyone (well, almost everyone) is not happy with is how that decision was implemented or executed. In that regard, you've failed (but I personally don't think the responsibility is fully yours to bear, given the challenge). The subsequent emphasis on PI iterations this winter clearly re-inforces the previous statement, because as we all know, there are other iterations in your backlog that's being put on the backburner.
On a kinder tangent, have you thought about experimenting with sharing the initial design scope and details with the public (as much as NDA allows), before everything is set in concrete with the coding? Throw it to the lions, getting mauled is part of the experience and remember the saying "no noise, is good noise".
Engage the community. If the players perceive you are paying a closer attention to their feedbacks, the quality of feedback will increase naturally. Let's be frank, not many people will bother writing complex arguments if they perceive it'll all go to waste. There is no point; unless it's someone who's rabidly passionate about it - at which their arguments may be in danger of being too focused/compartmentalized to the detriment of missing the bigger picture.
Lastly, sometimes I think you need an non-Eve outsider feedback to form proper evaluations on a design, as necessary. The problem with Eve players talking about design concepts is that they will (most of the times) unconciously define their boundaries to within the current gameplay/mechanics. It's a double-edge sword, good for refinements but bad for detecting innovations.
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Merdaneth
Amarr
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
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Posted - 2010.07.22 16:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Hey guys
My team worked on the first implementation and we're happy with the groundwork we put down. I think it's a nifty little feature and gives people another source of income that's relatively easy to manage and lets small time production people become somewhat self sufficient.
While true in theory, I do wonder if there are any people working at CCP who are, say, clicking their extractor planets daily and have managed to do so since the start of PI?
Zooming into a planet and looking at it close up is cool, seeing your production grow is cool, looking at your nice layout is cool, but it fades fast since there is *zero* interaction, you know exactly what you are going to find when you zoom into your planet, and other than a 'restart all extractors by performing a titanic amount of unecessary clicks' there is literally nothing to do.
Yes, I'm looking daily at the market to see how PI materials are moving. That is interesting and interactive data. My planet extraction management is not.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Cory Sopapilla
Minmatar
Kiroshi Group
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Posted - 2010.07.22 16:09:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Neliel Soifon
i'm not in PI, but i only read about people not happy, saying that PI is boring and sucks and so on.
Whiners always make the biggest noise. I like it. It could use some tweaking though.
I love that I can reset them from across the galaxy and don't have to be physically at the planet.
I love that you can set it to a 3 day cycle and only mess with it twice a week.
I love that they made it where we can make the NPC goods now. Sending jump freighters to empire for stupid things like O2, enriched uranium, mechanical parts, robotics, etc was annoying. Messing with NPC sell orders that sold 24 at a time was REALLY annoying.
Watching the market on my server that updates prices daily and calculates all of the P1-P4 costs and prices is...amusing.
I look forward to Incarna as well.
However,
Less clicks would be nice.
Setting them all to 3 day cycles simultaneously and finding random extractors idle with the others having 2 days remaining is getting old.
The wait between expediting transfer from the launch pad to multiple silos makes me have to break out the calculator...annoying. Let me expediate to multiple silos all at once then start the wait timer. I like to put 5Km3 of each material needed in several cylos on my end production planet and let the sucker run for DAYS while refilling the cylos from dedicated P1 and P2 planets.
Rather than 3 day cycles, I wouldn't mind if we could build mobile extractors and the hot spots actually deplete. Something like the spice extractors in Dune come to mind. It'd also add a whole new level of explosions and targets of opportunity for DUST. The farther away the extractor has to go, the longer it takes. This would provide manual intervention with thought involved on moving the CC to a new central location like a giant oil rig.
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Thrasymachus TheSophist
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Posted - 2010.07.22 16:14:00 -
[21]
I'd like PI to be more complex, less click-intensive, and for there to be some kind of ... randomness to it that presents ongoing complexity adn decision-making.
If its just "how do I set it up best" and then just maintenance that's going to lose its shine quickly especially as guides proliferate showing how to maximize returns.
Add some kind of set of random variables that will affect production returns that require some thinking to figure out how to get around and solve for. You know - puzzles.
Although, i suppose, at some point there will simply be guides explaining how to solve all the puzzles ....
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.07.22 16:15:00 -
[22]
My basic beef with the current PI, outside my personal taste, is that I don't get the design. I'm talking about the design where the actual gameplay of the feature is in the designing and building phase, wich is only a small percentage of the time people use the feature. After that the gameplay seems to fall in to pointless repetition. EVE is a constantly ongoing project for you and for the players, so the gameplay of new features should generally try to mirror this. Basicly you should contantly give reasons for people to spend time actually doing things with a feature. Not mandatory things necessarily, but things that give little advantages to active players. Anything that would require some adjustments to be made to increase efficiency/get bonus items/harm the competition could achieve this. In PI this should include population control, friendly and hostile interaction between players and other random happenings, that can fill the current hole in the gameplay.
That said if you really can't actually think of anything for the players to do, don't put in pointless mandatory clicking in an effort to mask the lack of gameplay. Brainstorm and ask for ideas. They might not be doable or realistic, but you will get loads of them if you show any interest in listening to them.
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Sekretarka
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Posted - 2010.07.22 16:56:00 -
[23]
Soundwave,
What happened to the design ideas that were presented during the "CCP presents" lecture at fanfest 2009? Districts, caring for your district (pollution etc.), possible trade with your neighbors?
I understand that what we see is just first iteration of PI and it lays good groundwork, especially from techlogy perspective, with database access and other things already sorted out.But as PI stands now, the designs announced during fanfest might be har to implement, as a lot of things would have to be reworked.
Maybe it would be nice to give us some pointers on which direction is current iteration of IP heading, so we can give feedback when you're listening.
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digitalwanderer
Gallente
DF0 incorporated
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Posted - 2010.07.22 17:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sekretarka
Soundwave,
What happened to the design ideas that were presented during the "CCP presents" lecture at fanfest 2009? Districts, caring for your district (pollution etc.), possible trade with your neighbors?
I understand that what we see is just first iteration of PI and it lays good groundwork, especially from techlogy perspective, with database access and other things already sorted out.But as PI stands now, the designs announced during fanfest might be har to implement, as a lot of things would have to be reworked.
Maybe it would be nice to give us some pointers on which direction is current iteration of IP heading, so we can give feedback when you're listening.
That's where one of the problems are to be honest....Having districts and worrying about pollution are nice additions,but who would want to live in an ice planet,or gas giant,or a plasma/lava inferno,or even a barren planet,or a planet made mostly of water(oceanic),to worry about such things in the first place,or even if you're a tyranical or benvolent PI owner for that matter....Even the title of the last expansion is misleading in that respect,but i guess they needed a catchy name.
The premise of tyranis only makes sense in temperate planets where the potential is there to have human developement,as they resemble earth.
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Compleat Bacon
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Posted - 2010.07.22 17:40:00 -
[25]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Hey guys
My team worked on the first implementation and we're happy with the groundwork we put down. I think it's a nifty little feature and gives people another source of income that's relatively easy to manage and lets small time production people become somewhat self sufficient.
As stated by another poster, we are dedicated to improving planetary interaction. Our sister team is working on another iteration for the coming release, so you should see improvements as early as this winter. The benefit for us of doing subsequent releases of PI, is that we can do improvements not just based on our own thoughts, but based on your feedback. Keep it coming, we're reading :)
Let me ask this then, as a developer with 25 yrs experience, and many successful deployments behind me:
Were you happy with the quality of the code you released?
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Sekretarka
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Posted - 2010.07.22 18:07:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Compleat Bacon
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Hey guys
My team worked on the first implementation and we're happy with the groundwork we put down. I think it's a nifty little feature and gives people another source of income that's relatively easy to manage and lets small time production people become somewhat self sufficient.
As stated by another poster, we are dedicated to improving planetary interaction. Our sister team is working on another iteration for the coming release, so you should see improvements as early as this winter. The benefit for us of doing subsequent releases of PI, is that we can do improvements not just based on our own thoughts, but based on your feedback. Keep it coming, we're reading :)
Let me ask this then, as a developer with 25 yrs experience, and many successful deployments behind me:
Were you happy with the quality of the code you released?
I don't think code is a problem, it works fine, no game destroying code bugs and good performance. Design is the problem here
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Shangpo
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Posted - 2010.07.22 18:18:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sekretarka
Soundwave,
What happened to the design ideas that were presented during the "CCP presents" lecture at fanfest 2009? Districts, caring for your district (pollution etc.), possible trade with your neighbors?
I understand that what we see is just first iteration of PI and it lays good groundwork, especially from techlogy perspective, with database access and other things already sorted out.But as PI stands now, the designs announced during fanfest might be har to implement, as a lot of things would have to be reworked.
Maybe it would be nice to give us some pointers on which direction is current iteration of IP heading, so we can give feedback when you're listening.
WTB SimCity..... Not..
Just give me internet spaceships to kill.....
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BrundleMeth
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
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Posted - 2010.07.22 18:22:00 -
[28]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Hey guys
My team worked on the first implementation and we're happy with the groundwork we put down. I think it's a nifty little feature and gives people another source of income that's relatively easy to manage and lets small time production people become somewhat self sufficient.
As stated by another poster, we are dedicated to improving planetary interaction. Our sister team is working on another iteration for the coming release, so you should see improvements as early as this winter. The benefit for us of doing subsequent releases of PI, is that we can do improvements not just based on our own thoughts, but based on your feedback. Keep it coming, we're reading :)
I'm offended by your foul language. Never say "winter" again...
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Baroness Kassandra
Caldari
The Einherji
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Posted - 2010.07.22 18:23:00 -
[29]
My major beef with PI is that I have to click so much and wait on each of my extractors. Why not use a "survey all" type of button?
UI and interaction needs a bit of streamlining.
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digitalwanderer
Gallente
DF0 incorporated
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Posted - 2010.07.22 18:30:00 -
[30]
As an addition and having thought more about it,even on the temperate planets that can allow human colonization,capsuleers can't do everything they want either,which includes being tyranical,since the planetary goverment can contact concord,which was the organization that allowed planetary access for pod pilots in the first place,so if the pilot is acting like an ***hole,concord can come in and deal with the matter personally.
There's basically no possibility to be tyranical in high sec empire,so that leaves only low sec or 0.0 space to do so,as concord can't do anything there,but even so,there's concord trade outposts in those low sec and even 0.0 space(?),and even in sleeper space for that matter,so concord already visited 2500 sleeper systems too???.
PI is a nice feature,but the way it was implemented needs a lot more work in order for the overall game to become a believable universe when viewed globally,which obviously includes EVE,incarna,Dust and PI,and suspension of disbelief only goes so far.
We'll see when incarna is released and PI is further developed,as well as how Dust turns out,but i get the nagging feeling that CCP may have taken bitten off lot more than they can chew with all these additions over the next 18 months.
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