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Feikno
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Posted - 2010.07.24 17:43:00 -
[1]
Mostly I've delved into Amarr, and I hang out in high security space looking at complexes right now. I'm not sure if I want a battleship as the guns are unwieldy for what I run into. I was looking at the Absolution, and the Damnation(looks so good!). I was even looking at the Faction cruisers, HACs, and the Legion as replacements.
I'm not sure if I can justify many of them. The Absolution looks like it might be a replacement. How much better than the Harbinger is it for damage? Does it have Cap issues? Is the legion SO bad that it's worse than the Harbinger? Would a Phantasm just be a horrible idea?
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The Deity
Amarr
Renegade Armada
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Posted - 2010.07.24 17:47:00 -
[2]
zealot
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Bill Serkoff2
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Posted - 2010.07.24 17:50:00 -
[3]
Get an apoc. The guns won't be that "unwieldy" and it's got enough turrets which a harbi pilot would certainly enjoy.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.07.24 17:57:00 -
[4]
I'd personally do a legion for high sec exploration.
-Liang
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
Blog
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.07.24 19:33:00 -
[5]
The legion, though the worst of the t3's, is not in of itself a bad ship. I'm not a huge fan of it but it probably is your best bet for high sec exploration. You can get a pretty solid gunboat out of it with a nice probing bonus. It even looks cool in that configuration, sort of a mini-avatar. That said, the absolution is also a good midsized ship. It's like a harbinger with a bit more damage and tank. It is ultimately the same sort of thing however, it doesn't do anything extra like the probing legion. You lose a midslot so you might lose a web or tracking computer, but it has a better tank and better damage output over a harb. The damnation is more of a pvp toy than anything else. It's got a stupidly powerful tank but it's damage output is anemic at best.
Other options are the zealot and omen navy issue. The zealot has a nice range bonus on it and is a very handy little ship. However it's lack of a drone bay can be a problem if you have some elite frigates spawn too close. The navy omen has a full 25m3 drone bay and a whole hell of a lot of firepower for a cruiser. It lacks the zealot's range and resistance bonuses however. As such it will have less tank and you'll obviously need to get closer up to targets. None of these ships have cap issues if you fit them properly.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.07.24 20:20:00 -
[6]
Just to add to what Rothgar said above: the Phantasm can be a pretty pimp highsec exploration ship if you're willing to bling it a bit.
-Liang
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
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Julia Venatrix
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Posted - 2010.07.24 21:45:00 -
[7]
Erm... I feel kinda bad for saying so, but if you trained drone skills instead, you'd find there was no hisec plex that an Arbi can't do, and which a Curse does even better. It's not quite as good as an Ishtar, but it's far better than anything you'll meet in hisec.
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Some days you are the pigeon, and some the statue. |
King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.07.25 01:59:00 -
[8]
Indeed the ishtar is excellent for this sort of thing but that's gallente and he stated amarr. I did think of the arbitrator/curse/pilgrim line but didn't mention them due to their very low damage output.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
CyberRaver
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
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Posted - 2010.07.25 12:09:00 -
[9]
The abso is a harb on steroids if you invest the skillpoints in it, can active tank or buffer
Legion however can field an insane active tank, and is very good for exploration with its subsystems
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TheMahdi
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Posted - 2010.07.25 12:14:00 -
[10]
If you like the look of the Damnation and have missile skills, Sacrilege is also a decent option and will run most everything.
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Feikno
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Posted - 2010.07.25 18:24:00 -
[11]
Thanks for the advice guys. I appreciate it.
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.25 19:40:00 -
[12]
 Originally by: King Rothgar
The legion, though the worst of the t3's.
Hai..
Your wrong.
Kthxbai..
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TheMahdi
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Posted - 2010.07.25 23:40:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ap0ll0n
Originally by: King Rothgar
The legion, though the worst of the t3's.
Hai..
Your wrong.
Kthxbai..
Not that I'm disagreeing, and if this is NOT about PvP then please disregard, but link fit?
As for PvE, Legion is great, specially in WHs, would far prefer it over the other T3s, better range and no ammo, what more could you ask for.
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Frozean
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Posted - 2010.07.26 01:34:00 -
[14]
T3 cruisers are awesome, but they are still horrible in terms of cost effectiveness.
Sure. Proteus can do something special in pvp that legion cant. However, that just means its "the best among the worse" ships to fly realistically in pvp.
I would much rather contract away the T3 and stick with hacs then risk a billiondollar ship thats gonna be called primary in a second and a half.
Its a thread for running plexes anyways. Not fly theoratical ships into pvp.
If its for pve, ill much rather stick to missile spewing tengu and legions which are pretty good at what they do ( athough legion is more damage-type neutral).
But as for answering the OP.
After a harbinger, ill stick to apoc or geddon,which are both pretty good in PVE. Apoc having insane caps and decent defences, while gedon having good DPS, a tractor, and an insane drone bay, while still having not much cap problems unlike the abaddon.
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.26 07:42:00 -
[15]
Originally by: TheMahdi
Not that I'm disagreeing, and if this is NOT about PvP then please disregard, but link fit?
As for PvE, Legion is great, specially in WHs, would far prefer it over the other T3s, better range and no ammo, what more could you ask for.
Well Legion imo is not made for solopew, and the tight fittings make a viable fit almost impossible if you use mwd. Basically, the Legion is a better Zealot, and most people know, that Zealot is by no means a solo pew ship. Legion does very well in armor hac fleets with AB, low signature and huge armor tanks.
It is, however, not much better than a Zealot, and is imo a richkids toy.
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Dodgy Past
Amarr
Trans-Solar Works
Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2010.07.26 11:03:00 -
[16]
There are ways to fit an MWD + 1600 plate, but it isn't as easy as the Proteus.
After jumping through gates Legions are extremely useful since they can get decent DPS on targets immediately, you'll notice our Legions tend to be higher on Scorpion kill mails than the Proteus.
For exploration I'd say Legion>>>Absolution>Phantasm>Navy Omen>Zealot.
Having said that the the Legion and Zealot need good skills+web due to no drones.
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Admiral Pelleon
White Shadow Imperium
Reckoning.
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Posted - 2010.07.26 11:11:00 -
[17]
You put a probe launcher on a Phantasm and I will find you, kill you, and pillage your house. In game.
________
Chicago players channel: 'Windy City'
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Confirming that I am the best poster.
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Feikno
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Posted - 2010.07.26 17:06:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
You put a probe launcher on a Phantasm and I will find you, kill you, and pillage your house. In game.
Why is a probe launcher on a Phantasm bad?
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Cosmic Rainbow
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Posted - 2010.07.26 19:35:00 -
[19]
Originally by: CyberRaver
The abso is a harb on steroids if you invest the skillpoints in it, can active tank or buffer
Legion however can field an insane active tank, and is very good for exploration with its subsystems
The abso is not a harb on steriods ffs. I'd be willing to bet CyberRaver has never flown one.
Abso is not a good investment in any way shape or form. Cost and skill training vs. Performance, its not great. For PvE I find its crap.
Its range is very limited, its very slow, and you have to choose between tank and gank, both of which are "meh" [in other words, fails to impress] (unless you try to go dual mar, which is a bad idea)
For PvP again.
its crap.
Legion is 'decent' for PvE, specifically because you have greater ability for speed/agility and can move around the field a bit easier, but again there are better options, as the legion dps is a little lacking.
Cost and training vs effectiveness isnt that great.
Im not surprised these kinds of threads are coming up however....What is the natural progression after a Tier 2 BC?
HAC? For the cost and performance, not likely.
CS? For the cost and performance, not likely.
Recon? Perhaps, but a totally different route and role, so not likely.
BS? Totally different route and role so not likely.
Which means...
"I guess Ill stick with the Tier 2 BC...forever, or get a faction ship"
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
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Posted - 2010.07.26 19:48:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Cosmic Rainbow
The abso is not a harb on steriods ffs. I'd be willing to bet CyberRaver has never flown one.
Abso is not a good investment in any way shape or form. Cost and skill training vs. Performance, its not great. For PvE I find its crap.
Its range is very limited, its very slow, and you have to choose between tank and gank, both of which are "meh" [in other words, fails to impress] (unless you try to go dual mar, which is a bad idea)
For PvP again.
its crap.
Thank you. I've been trying to justify buying an Abso for some time now but I've never been able to based on performance. I just don't see what it offers over a Harbi. The poor NH is better than a Drake, at least, but I just can't see the Absolution doing anything the Harbinger can't.
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Elijah Mohammed
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.07.27 01:30:00 -
[21]
being that most all amarr ships are named after something having to do with death, end of the world, i.e. biblical terms.
I would say by definition harbinger: 2 a : one that pioneers in or initiates a major change : precursor b : one that presages or foreshadows what is to come
"THE DUTY OF THE CIVILIZED MAN IS TO TEACH AND TRAIN THE UNCIVILIZED"
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TheMahdi
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Posted - 2010.07.27 14:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Cosmic Rainbow
Legion is 'decent' for PvE, specifically because you have greater ability for speed/agility and can move around the field a bit easier, but again there are better options, as the legion dps is a little lacking.
Cost and training vs effectiveness isnt that great.
I don't think YOU have ever flown a Legion properly. Decent is an understatement, you won't find another Amarr ship that can have the same speed, DPS and active tank and still be cap stable. Which means it is the perfect high performance PvE ship where it excels in Wormhole space anomalys/sites and K-space exploration sites (since for K-space it can still fit an impressive tank and have salvager/analyzer/codebreaker/probe launcher all fit AND still run all known 0.0 radars/magnetometrics). And is also a great unprobeable low sec/null sec mission runner.
As for the numbers on a decent W-space Legion fit, my solo class 3 Legion has:
1143 omni-tank
470 DPS /w Multifreq (380 /w Scorch)
640 m/s
140m sig radius
32k EHP
11+5km range /w Multifreq and 34+5km /w Scorch.
41% cap stable.
Can carry enough ammo to last hundreds of anomalys.
Cheaper than a Marauder (even with those faction/deadspace mods) and fairly easy to train for then most T2 cruisers (especially Recons) since all the core skills it needs at V are important anyway. If you aren't in the business of W-space, it's exploration and unprobeable mission running fits are equally impressive. But the Tengu is really the king of those 2 particular areas.
As for the Absolution, it makes a great active tank and still has respectable DPS, I don't know what more you can ask of it, if you want more EHP then you should look to a Damnation. But to say it's crap is a giant overstatement, it's considerebly better than a Harbinger and was worth the investment for me. I've never flown it in PvP so I wouldn't know if it's worth the investment there, but I shelfed mine after I got a Legion.
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