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I want you all to do an experiment for me.

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Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.07.27 02:37:00 - [1] In reference to this thread I want everybody to do one thing for one month, and only that one thing. I did this one thing back in 2006 and lost 15 lbs. That thing to do is, completely remove High Fructose Corn Syrup from your diet. NOTHING ELSE. If you like your cola, then go get a non-HFCS version of it. In other words, keep eating stuff with sugar in it. What am I trying to learn? Back in the 1990s, there was that big thing all about the Tobacco industry. Yes a lot of people had that one uncle who smoked too much and barfed up a lung and died. But in the USA, everything is based on lobbies. The tobacco industry did not have enough money to buy off the government. The food lobby in the US does, and still do. Now let's compare: To smoke cigarettes, you had to go out of your way to smoke them. Even if you can't resist stopping at the store to get them, even if you can't resist having gotten into the car or left the house to go to the store, even if you can't resist giving the cashier the money for them, if you want to quit enough, you can still do a Doctor Strangelove and actually restrain your hand so not to put one in your mouth. But HFCS? They put that stuff in EVERYTHING. It's even in the bread. What I have seen over the years is the resurgence of the Atkins Diet, which, if you actually read his books (I have and experimented with it at the behest of a sibling who is a nutritionist looking to do some tests) it's not "zero carb". So when all those people went on Atkins and started losing weight like it was going out of style, it was NOT "no carb", they were indirectly cutting out everything that had HFCS. Unfortunately, most meat products are full of hormones. Cutting out bread and sweets and eating a whole package of bacon in the morning is still not the healthiest thing to do. I did prolonged low-carb experiments AND as a long distance runner too and after a few months of that the mind starts to go. (yeah yeah it not back yet laugh it up). Here is my final point: the food lobby covers for itself well. They have their media saying that obesity is all your fault for sitting around all day and playing video games. Let me tell all you youngsters something: back when I was a kid, we had video games and we played them all day too. We had VCRs too. We ate junk food too. So how come back then, it was rare to find a "fat kid"? They didn't start putting HFCS into EVERYTHING until the mid-1980s. Those of you old enough would also remember the big "fitness craze" that hit at around the same time. You see, most diet studies are funded by the same people who make their money off this. So the nutritionist who says "people are gaining weight because of this HFCS" don't get funding and their books don't get published. Yet those who told you that it's normal to gain weight as you age, and parroting all other falsity (and this is an insult to parrots because they actually communicate with all that noise they make)got all the funding, and their books got published. And look at what an industry this is. All that money earned on fat pills, surgery, books, fitness centers. Normal to get fat as you age? For what species of mammal is it normal to balloon out so badly that it cannot move? If there was one they were extinct. The "industry" has lots of cash. Not only do they keep the HFCS coming cheaply, but again, the "fitness" bill of people trying to fight it, chirping the usual "I hardly eat... blah blah blah" and wondering why (because they expect a bought-off government to tell them?) Then those who are morbidly obese? Well, here's some Prozac for you. Oh life sucks? Here, watch some reality TV and support their sponsors. Yes, read this again: back before HFCS fat kids were rare. Now it's the kid that's not fat that is rare. if you are the fat kid, you life was stolen from you. Just get off HFCS one month
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.07.27 03:05:00 - [2] Edited by: Akita T on 27/07/2010 03:17:28 Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer [...]I want everybody to do one thing for one month, and only that one thing [...] completely remove High Fructose Corn Syrup from your diet. What if my diet does not consist of a single gram of HFCS ? In fact, you'd actually have to bother to find any HFCS in Europe. Although we do eat sugar... on average, quite a bit more than people from the USA, actually, even if you add up HFCS to sugar for the US numbers. P.S. Allegedly, it's not only hard to find, but actually banned from usage. I am having a bit of trouble believing that though. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.27 03:55:00 - [3] Edited by: Intense Thinker on 27/07/2010 03:55:03 I'm doing a counter experiment... eat one of these 3 times a day for a month and see what happens Signature locked for editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist
Cyprus Black Caldari 4 wing Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2010.07.27 05:33:00 - [4] I'll give it a try starting on the first. ___________________________________ "In the land of predators, the lion does not fear the jackal." -Dexter
Atomos Darksun D00M. Excessum Messor	Posted - 2010.07.27 05:39:00 - [5] My body weight stays constant within 3 pounds almost irrelevant of diet/activity. Not a very good test subject Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice... Linkification, Baby.
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2010.07.27 05:54:00 - [6] it's a tricky and touchy subject. i would venture a guess that if results show people lost weight, it would be due in large part by them ingesting fewer sugar (hfcs or otherwise) in their diet overall (likely due to unavailability/pita of finding said nonHFCS products or unconscious cut in overall consumption just by watching their foods) The chemist in me knows that non-biased scientists across the board can find no real chemical difference between HCFS and sugar to give them reason to think one is less healthy than another. Studies seem to support this but for multiple reasons we can't put too much stock in those results. The realist in me knows that across the board manufactured foods and additives seem to generally be less healthy than natural alternatives. For example: no scientist can yet tell you why fresh fruit and vegetables are so damn healthy, when well engineered and manufactured foods that for all reasons known should be as healthy... just don't seem to cut the mustard (little food humor there :P) I know given the choice i'll take sugar. I hope your experiment goes well, but if you do this on a large scale you really need to document what the subjects diet consists of for past month and what it consists of in the trial month... ie: journals (to weed out those that just consume less unconsciously) i can't do your experiment as i'm on a weird diet that will be changing soon, so i'm probably a bad subject anyways :( --- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved
Gneeznow Minmatar Ship spinners inc	Posted - 2010.07.27 06:20:00 - [7] I would say the OP is onto something tbh, when I cut coke, mayonaisse and fast food out of my diet I lost a lot of weight over a three month period afterwards despite not excersising at all (bear in mind I didnt eat much fast food anyway so it was really just cutting out mayo and fizzy drinks) before that, despite excersising in the gym 3 days a week I didnt lose weight because I would still drink the odd can of coke and have the odd roll with mayo. after reading that I just realised schweppes tonic water which I drink a lot of has HFCS and I drink loads of that, I'm gonna cut that out starting today
Hatherley	Posted - 2010.07.27 11:15:00 - [8] Edited by: Hatherley on 27/07/2010 11:19:05 pretty sure nothing i eat has that crap in, not even sure i can buy stuff with it in in the UK. i guess this just reinforces the OPs point about it being terrible for you :P edit: i have to say i avoid sugar too if i can; it alters my mood significantly, wrecks my concentration, and i never need 'immediate energy'. tin foil hat time! as populations get bigger without everyone being equivalently wealthier, does it follow that the quality of food sold to the masses will get progressively worse until it's 'alien food cube' time?
Bilko Bobski Gallente	Posted - 2010.07.27 12:26:00 - [9] From what I've read, HFCS is also known as glucose/fructose syrup in the UK - and is perfectly legal. So if you're not in the USA, check the labels for that instead of HFCS and you're likely to find it in a lot of products. As far as the damage of them is concerned - I feel it's no different to eating too much of any other sugar. Also, because of the high calorie:weight ratio of sugars; cutting them out is almost guaranteed to produce weight loss results. My personal suggestion to the OP, is to get some people to cut out HFCS from their diet; replaced with non-HFCS alternatives, and get one group of people to do the opposite - replacing all non-HFCS with HFCS. This way you will be able to compare results more accurately and you can see if HFCS actually causes dietary problems, or if it's simply as bad as eating other sugars. Good luck with the study - I'd join in, but I'm busy trying to beat my caffeine addiction (it's amazing how addicted you can be without realising. It's only when you try to give it up that you notice).
Slade Trillgon Endless Possibilities Inc.	Posted - 2010.07.27 12:56:00 - [10] Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 27/07/2010 12:58:28 Although you are on the right road, I will have to disagree that a majority of people that are overweight, are in that condition just because they eat too much, including high fructose corn syrup, and not a combination of doing little to expend the additional calories that they consume and eating too much garbage. From a behavior change standpoint you are on the right road though. It is always good to only try and change one behavior at a time, especially if the two behaviors are as closely related as calories in and calories out. So if you are really trying to lose weight I support his hypothesis and support the concept of trying to lose some weight, over a six month period, by calorie ingestion control. Then, after six months of solid practice in controlling your intake, try to slowly increase activity levels over the next six months. As for the comments about kids today and us in the 80's, although they are valid, I do not belive it shows a true correlation. In the 80's we had junk food, video games, and VCR's, but we also had physical education in the schools, our parents were not scarred little children themselves, and let us run all over the place. The only time we played video games was if the weather was real crappy and/or it was too late to be outside during the years we did not want to get in trouble with the parents for getting busted for breaking the local curfew. Of course this is not valid for all kids gowning up in the 80's, but the trend has been steadily getting worse of the last 3 decades. So yes, if you cut out HFCS you will lose a good bit of weight if you do not replace it with something else. The exercise is also important for keeping the arteries from blocking up so everyone should be reminded that being less heavy is not always the final goal. Slade :Signature Temporarily Disabled:
IloveRickAstley	Posted - 2010.07.27 15:39:00 - [11] If HFCS is so bad for you why did jesus make it taste so good?
Ulhass Caldari Astrowork Systems	Posted - 2010.07.27 19:25:00 - [12] Originally by: Intense Thinker Edited by: Intense Thinker on 27/07/2010 03:55:03 I'm doing a counter experiment... eat one of these 3 times a day for a month and see what happens My left arm is getting numb just looking at that
Arvald Caldari The Lumberjacks	Posted - 2010.07.27 20:13:00 - [13] Edited by: Arvald on 27/07/2010 20:14:54 i can already say that, for me atleast, cutting out hfcs was the best diet change ive ever made, ive lost at least 10 pounds in the past 3 months because of it, and i feel better and stronger instead of feeling like crap all the time, mind you i used to have 2 or 3 cans of soda or energy drinks a day. and after that i cut out all fast food and cut back on the junk food and i look and feel **ing awesome because of it Originally by:** Pr1ncess Alia The chemist in me knows that non-biased scientists across the board can find no real chemical difference between HCFS and sugar to give them reason to think one is less healthy than another. Studies seem to support this but for multiple reasons we can't put too much stock in those results. ( i thought it had somthing to do with your body not being able to metabolize hfsc as well as it can sugar. i cant remember where i read this but ill try and find the source
ReaperOfSly Gallente 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.07.27 20:13:00 - [14] Originally by: Ulhass Originally by: Intense Thinker Edited by: Intense Thinker on 27/07/2010 03:55:03 I'm doing a counter experiment... eat one of these 3 times a day for a month and see what happens My left arm is getting numb just looking at that It can't be done. You'd be dead before the month was completed. ____________________
Komen Gallente Flying Target LLC	Posted - 2010.07.28 11:17:00 - [15] I've already tried your experiment. In '04 I made the switch from regular soda to diet. For a while I just cut back on sodas altogether - then I got used to the taste, and intake increased back to pre-switch levels. Over the course of two years, with no other dietary change and no change in exercise habits, I lost about 18 lbs. I'd say that a 'normal' day will consist of between 40-80 oz. of soda (in those oh-so-convenient 20 oz. bottles). I still take sugar, but not in great heaping doses, and I've otherwise started studying labels to avoid baked goods with HFCS. I was led to believe that HFCS breaks down more easily into simple sugars, which are then stored as fat, than regular cane sugar. Perhaps I was misled?
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2010.07.28 11:28:00 - [16] Quote: I want everybody to do one thing for one month, and only that one thing. I did this one thing back in 2006 and lost 15 lbs. I want everyone using SI units for a month.
Zofe Stormcaller Shadow Company Legiunea ROmana	Posted - 2010.07.28 12:10:00 - [17] Originally by: Bilko Bobski From what I've read, HFCS is also known as glucose/fructose syrup in the UK - and is perfectly legal. So if you're not in the USA, check the labels for that instead of HFCS and you're likely to find it in a lot of products. As far as the damage of them is concerned - I feel it's no different to eating too much of any other sugar. Also, because of the high calorie:weight ratio of sugars; cutting them out is almost guaranteed to produce weight loss results. My personal suggestion to the OP, is to get some people to cut out HFCS from their diet; replaced with non-HFCS alternatives, and get one group of people to do the opposite - replacing all non-HFCS with HFCS. This way you will be able to compare results more accurately and you can see if HFCS actually causes dietary problems, or if it's simply as bad as eating other sugars. Good luck with the study - I'd join in, but I'm busy trying to beat my caffeine addiction (it's amazing how addicted you can be without realising. It's only when you try to give it up that you notice). Glucose and Fructose are totally different kinds of sugar. They use HFCS in the US because it comes from maize which grows there. In the UK most products are made with sugar from sugar beet (Sucrose, aka common white sugar) which grows in the UK and is refined here, and is therefore cheaper. That isn't to say that fructose isn't used at all because it is in some products. Glucose is the kind of sugar that your body naturally uses and makes within itself, so your body has to do little if anything to turn it into energy.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2010.07.28 14:28:00 - [18] I just watched that guy's presentation, it's amazing. I won't state I'll completely remove fructose from my diet (because you cant' always control it) but I will severely limit it, while at the same time increase my fibre usage. Lets see what happens.
Noun Verber Gallente	Posted - 2010.07.28 15:26:00 - [19] You realise that you're just doing the basics of dieting (reduce energy intake = less stored)?
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2010.07.28 15:44:00 - [20] Originally by: Noun Verber You realise that you're just doing the basics of dieting (reduce energy intake = less stored)? You realise that what you're saying is the EXACT THING we've been told for too long which is causing the problem, in other words your cool reply shows how much you DIDN'T pick up lately? While it is ofcourse true that the amount matters but moreso, for various reasons, WHAT you eat matters more.
Arvald Caldari The Lumberjacks	Posted - 2010.07.28 16:14:00 - [21] Originally by: Marko Riva Originally by: Noun Verber You realise that you're just doing the basics of dieting (reduce energy intake = less stored)? You realise that what you're saying is the EXACT THING we've been told for too long which is causing the problem, in other words your cool reply shows how much you DIDN'T pick up lately? While it is ofcourse true that the amount matters but moreso, for various reasons, WHAT you eat matters more. the last part of this is true, i used to eat one or two meals a day but it was ether fast food or junk food, at the beginning of this year i made the switch to food that i cook myself from fresh ingredients, and now i eat 3 (large) meals a day, and ive been loosing weight, and haven't had a significant increase in exercise (even though i should because i still look like a teddy bear =P)

CCP Adida C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.28 19:07:00 - [22] If you are around a Trader Joes they tend to not use High Fructose Corn Syrup in all of their foods. But changing from one really bad fake sugar to the real thing doesn't change that much except for the way your body processes it. There are a lot of sugar substitutes out there that taste like real sugar :) I'm a sweet tea drinker and when I switched my boyfriend couldn't tell the difference. Adida Community Rep CCP Hf, EVE Online

Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.07.28 19:37:00 - [23] Quote: I'm a sweet tea drinker and when I switched my boyfriend couldn't tell the difference. Poor guy he either didn't say anything out of courtesy, or he really has a hard time telling the difference. Originally by: CCP Adida There are a lot of sugar substitutes out there that taste like real sugar :) I find that hard to believe. Any and ALL sugar substitutes I have ever tried tasted horrible, each in their own different way. Granted, I have had people say that coke light or pepsi max light or whatever taste the same to them as the regular, non-light versions... but to me, the difference is not just obvious, but extremely obvious even in blind taste tests, so you can't blame it on some psychological bias. So far, I had 100% accuracy in determining which soft drinks had real beet sugar in them vs those with any sugar replacement. Oh, and I even hate having honey instead of sugar in anything where sugar is usually used. Tea ? Always sugar, never honey. No problems eating honey on buttered bread though, and honey in milk with corn flakes is borderline acceptable. But I digress... I don't know, maybe there really is a sugar substitute out there that does taste almost exactly like sugar to me (blind tests welcome), but like I said, I find that quite hard to believe such a substitute even exists. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _

CCP Adida C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.28 19:55:00 - [24] There is a slight difference in taste but it's not huge. So slight that it's worth a shot. I forgot the name of it but it says "tastes like sugar" and measures cup for cup with sugar. Adida Community Rep CCP Hf, EVE Online

Batolemaeus Caldari Money Liberation Services Corp	Posted - 2010.07.28 20:07:00 - [25] Originally by: Furb Killer I want everyone using SI units for a month. This. Also: Originally by: Akita T P.S. Allegedly, it's not only hard to find, but actually banned from usage in the EU. I am having a bit of trouble believing that though. That would be wrong. It's definitely allowed here in Germany, but it's not widely used. Also, just checked some of the foods around me. Can't find the stuff in any of them. However, I'm vegetarian and don't drink soft drinks and most of the stuff i eat has not been produced industrially. One of the perks of living in a small town: My bread is actually still made in a small bakery... Btw.. losing nearly 7kg would put me into rather dangerous territory. Definitely not healthy.
Rylie Gayle	Posted - 2010.07.28 20:09:00 - [26] Originally by: CCP Adida If you are around a Trader Joes they tend to not use High Fructose Corn Syrup in all of their foods. But changing from one really bad fake sugar to the real thing doesn't change that much except for the way your body processes it. There are a lot of sugar substitutes out there that taste like real sugar :) I'm a sweet tea drinker and when I switched my boyfriend couldn't tell the difference. You sound like an calorie-count user, I am too.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.07.28 20:37:00 - [27] Edited by: Akita T on 28/07/2010 20:49:44 Originally by: CCP Adida There is a slight difference in taste but it's not huge. So slight that it's worth a shot. I forgot the name of it but it says "tastes like sugar" and measures cup for cup with sugar. Would that be "SugarTwin" ? According to their own site (Linkage) it contains mainly cyclamates. I hate the taste (and especially the AFTERtaste) of cyclamates. The raw taste of it actually makes me retch. I also hate the taste of aspartame, that tastes like chewing an eraser to me (a very sweet one, but an eraser nevertheless), you know, from stuff like "Equal" or "NutraSweet". I don't really like the taste of saccharin ("Sweet'N Low") especially in hot beverages (like tea), YUCK. Sucralose (as in "Splenda") tastes the least odd to me in beverages, but I can still feel the difference enough to not like it. I've tried them all, I hated them all. P.S. For instance, my usual "morning coffee" recipe contains roughly 100 ml boiling water, 2 teaspoons of Jacobs granulated instant coffee and 4 to 5 teaspoons of granulated white sugar, topped by around 150 ml of cold cow's milk (3.5% fat version, preferably) right out of the fridge, after all the coffee and sugar dissolved, bringing it down to just above body temperature very shortly. Everybody else I know calls it "yucky//syrupy" (except my father, which has pretty much the same type of habits, sugar-wise). "morning" means "whenever I woke up" regardless of time of day So yeah, I've tried alternatives, trust me _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Downtym Amarr Ajo Heavy Industries	Posted - 2010.07.28 21:24:00 - [28] Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer In reference to this thread I want everybody to do one thing for one month, and only that one thing. I did this one thing back in 2006 and lost 15 lbs. That thing to do is, completely remove High Fructose Corn Syrup from your diet. You want to lost 15 lbs? Cut your intake and work out. It's amazing how it works every freaking time. Or just be like me and live on a starvation diet (<1800 kcal) because of forgetting to eat.
Downtym Amarr Ajo Heavy Industries	Posted - 2010.07.28 21:30:00 - [29] Originally by: CCP Adida There is a slight difference in taste but it's not huge. So slight that it's worth a shot. I forgot the name of it but it says "tastes like sugar" and measures cup for cup with sugar. For me any saccharin derived substitute tastes like the top of a battery while sucralose tastes like dry cardboard.
Noun Verber Gallente	Posted - 2010.07.29 03:02:00 - [30] Originally by: Marko Riva Originally by: Noun Verber You realise that you're just doing the basics of dieting (reduce energy intake = less stored)? You realise that what you're saying is the EXACT THING we've been told for too long which is causing the problem, in other words your cool reply shows how much you DIDN'T pick up lately? While it is ofcourse true that the amount matters but moreso, for various reasons, WHAT you eat matters more. "WHAT you eat" - the density of kilojoules in each food determines how much energy you get from eating the same volume of it and sugar has a high density of energy, so we appear to be agreeing violently. The other part that people can't do is the hard work of exercising, which is why there is such a large market for miracle weight loss products.

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