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Learning skills - yes, again!

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Strelsky Amarr O R G I N HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.07.29 04:50:00 - [1] So first off I did have a brief glance at some of the existing threads like this, but couldn't find one with the same idea in it... Basically what's this about. With the introduction of that new skill compensation system, EVE could finally get rid of all the learning skills. *How?* Let's say your character now has 3m skill points allocated in Learning skills. Upon removal of the Learning skills (let's say by an awesome CCP patch), your character is entitled to allocate the exact same amount elsewhere. Hence nobody really looses his time he spent on them. *Benefits?* With removal of Learning skills, every character would start with same amount of attribtues as if he had each Learning skill at level 5. Hence when I try to get some of my RL mates into the game, I don't have to find excuses as to why spend months on training skills that allow you to be faster in training skills which appear to be mandatory skills to have, yet they aren't really exciting as you don't get to "do" anything actively with them. Which gets boring really quick for newstarters.
Felix Esperium Lysergic Distortions Research and Development	Posted - 2010.07.29 04:58:00 - [2] Originally by: Strelsky So first off I did have a brief glance at some of the existing threads like this, but couldn't find one with the same idea in it... How about literally every single one? You just wanted to feel special by posting your own thread, didn't you. Please never post again
Rudolph Heimlich	Posted - 2010.07.29 04:58:00 - [3] Seen this idea before. That doesn't stop it from being a decent one. I must say I don't immediately see any negative effects of this proposal. CCP themselves have stated that they regret learning skills, and the system for allocating SP is already implemented. So why not? :)
Cartheron Crust Krazny Oktyabr Revolyutsiya Yezhovshchina	Posted - 2010.07.29 04:59:00 - [4] I have never seen this idea before. Do you have a newsletter to which I can subscribe?
Misanthra	Posted - 2010.07.29 05:50:00 - [5] Edited by: Misanthra on 29/07/2010 05:51:15 wtb: trolling lessons for hydra from widot Why should everyone have same stats since not every one needs them maxed. A station spinning indy does not need perception and willpower. A cyno alt does not need high charisma. Need more int/mem...train it. Don't need it, don't train it. Universal stats and everyone being the same what other games do. Eve you choose your path.
Strelsky	Posted - 2010.07.29 06:15:00 - [6] Edited by: Strelsky on 29/07/2010 06:17:56 Originally by: Misanthra Edited by: Misanthra on 29/07/2010 05:51:15 wtb: trolling lessons for hydra from widot Why should everyone have same stats since not every one needs them maxed. A station spinning indy does not need perception and willpower. A cyno alt does not need high charisma. Need more int/mem...train it. Don't need it, don't train it. Universal stats and everyone being the same what other games do. Eve you choose your path. Not sure if my definition of 'same stats' equals to yours. Is training a skill that allows you to train other skill faster a bad concept? Does it hurt in any way if your cyno alt will suddenly get some more useless charisma? Since you just answered 1)Yes and 2)No, then there's no point in keeping bad game designs. Cheers.
Sakura Shiro	Posted - 2010.07.29 07:35:00 - [7] hurts one of the few rewards ccp gives out for better character planning. Why should someone get something for nothing? Want fast train times, learning trains. Don't want fast train times, don't learn. What does it hurt a person to just learn these and move on could be a return question? Something they are doing is making the isk for the higher level skills that cost 4.5 mil...just need to be keep on making that isk while doing this. Welcome to eve...its like this you whole time in this game, train for something while making isk to pay for it.
Strelsky	Posted - 2010.07.29 08:12:00 - [8] Originally by: Sakura Shiro hurts one of the few rewards ccp gives out for better character planning. Why should someone get something for nothing? Want fast train times, learning trains. Don't want fast train times, don't learn. What does it hurt a person to just learn these and move on could be a return question? Something they are doing is making the isk for the higher level skills that cost 4.5 mil...just need to be keep on making that isk while doing this. Welcome to eve...its like this you whole time in this game, train for something while making isk to pay for it. Sorry mate, the skill book price is the laat thing I could think of as being problematic. It's not like letting EVEMon create a skill queue sheet for you takes any considerable effort. Nor can can anybody in serious mind consider training them as 'fun' with their 4 years payback time. Adimttedly it makes me feel a little bit more elitistic and 'better' than somebody else who doesn't have those advanced learning skills at level 5. It still doesn't change fact that learning skills are bad, mkay?
Faccat	Posted - 2010.07.29 08:57:00 - [9] Having the learning skills from early on is not a matter of good planning. Everyone knows it is the superior way to go in the long run. Expecting to play the game and have fun off the bat incurs a penalty in the long run. Unless you consider the learning skills to be "playing the game". That reminds me of the South Park episode with at the carnival, "It's a line simulator; it simulates standing in a real line." So, in this game we can not only learn skills, we can learn to learn skills. I assume that the majority of people are either: a. petty and just want anyone after them to put up with the crap they had to put up with, or b. trolling. Those who sincerely believe the learning skills comprise a fun aspect of the game present me with a problem. I'd like to mock you but I'm just not sure you'd get it.
KiwiMatt	Posted - 2010.07.29 09:35:00 - [10] Originally by: Faccat Having the learning skills from early on is not a matter of good planning. Everyone knows it is the superior way to go in the long run. Expecting to play the game and have fun off the bat incurs a penalty in the long run. I assume that the majority of people are either: a. petty and just want anyone after them to put up with the crap they had to put up with, or b. trolling. Those who sincerely believe the learning skills comprise a fun aspect of the game present me with a problem. I'd like to mock you but I'm just not sure you'd get it. Well, i'm not petty and wanting people to put up with crap, but this games all about choices... you can choose to learn them or not learn them, it's that simple. Like anyother aspect of eve, you sacrifice your time to do one thing instead of another, depending on your goals in the game... learning all to the top level has a long payoff time, so for the first 3 or so years you would be behind, only after that would you be in front. If you intend to play long term, and are happy to sacrifice the time , well go for it. taking it out of the game is irrelevant unless you feel you should be on the same level as someone who has put more effort than yourself into something... Your assumptions seem to mean you consider that every aspect of Eve MUST be fun, others may view the game differently to yourself. Sometimes gratification is not instant, but a long slow process...

My Postman	Posted - 2010.07.29 12:33:00 - [11] Oh no sir, it¦s not that easy. Just reimburse skill points/isk for skill books and be done with it. I¦ve got maxed out learning skills (basic/advanced/learning at L5) and +4¦s in my head. I decided to train them asap, accepting that i¦ll need longer for my hulk/cruisers/bc/bs. At this time everybody NOT doing learning skills had an andvantage. Now im making up ground, now i¦m in andvantage, and i¦ve earned it by making a plan, by doing it the "right" way. If CCP does it your way, they are taking my advantage away, proving a way "wrong" when it was all right for years. To your statement "easier way for noobs to start" This is plain WRONG. Do you think i did sit in station for months, playing the skillpoint game? Bah! Undocking right away, doing some tutorials to get into game mechanics, making some isk. Doing some mining and some L1 missions. In fact i think those ppl scare off newbies by telling them not to undock till all learning at L5 and till at least fly a T2 fitted AF otherwise you will die a horrible death. You can do L2 missions in a cruiser with Cruiser 3 you know? So finally we come to the point why one after another thread like this is started by.... by whom? Imo by those semi-elitist pvpers, putting all afford in will/pers by remapping, leaving them with carisma 7. Now you want to have an orca? The skill tree is killing you? Lets make a thread about removing learning skills, this will equal all. Now you are fine. Now you even don¦t have to bother about those scary expensive +5 implants anymore, destroyed when podded, as +4`s will do it now, as you leveled the playground. So, sorry, no sir.
Strelsky	Posted - 2010.07.29 12:54:00 - [12] Originally by: My Postman ... Completely wrong. I have all implants +5 and I do even have the ****ty advanced charisma learning skill level 5. And you're wrong even more by saying that those who did take the time to bring all their learning skills to level 5 would loose the advantage, because you fail at math. If you skilled it up and therefore benefited from the extra attribute, you got more sp/hour than somebody who has not bothered to max it up. Now you would get reimbursement for your level 5 skills, while somebody else would get back as much as he was bothered to put into the learning skills. Therefore you get more SP back on top of the fact that all the time you were benefiting from the extra attribute (ie. more SP/hour provided by it). Please, take the time and do come up with some more nonesense :)
Reldor Silverheart Gallente	Posted - 2010.07.29 13:01:00 - [13] There's allready a thread dedicated to this discussion in this part, please keep it there. Reported for duplicate threads.
Witcher Amarr Russian Specialists Group	Posted - 2010.07.29 13:22:00 - [14] Edited by: Witcher on 29/07/2010 13:24:36 damn you are stuipid p.s. just reported your post as troll
Pantload Gallente The Underpants Gnomes Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2010.07.29 14:42:00 - [15] Originally by: Strelsky So first off I did have a brief glance at some of the existing threads like this, but couldn't find one with the same idea in it... The main 24-page threadnaught on this subject is at the top of the 2nd page in this same section of the forum. It proposes exactly the same thing that you just did and has been running actively in this forum for many months. Your glance at other threads on this subject should have been a little more comprehensive and less brief. TUG: The Underpants Gnomes. Buy Corps here

CCP Adida C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.29 15:00:00 - [16] Closed as a duplicate topic: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1290489 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1351764 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1352107 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1351481 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1344613 Please choose one of the following active threads above to reply to. Adida Community Rep CCP Hf, EVE Online



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