Originally by: darius mclever

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Originally by: Allestin Villimar

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Originally by: darius mclever

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Yes now it is just a question, how long it will take you to understand that ganking the AFK guy wont really solve the problem, because he was *AFK* he couldnt do *anything* to you.

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Since you have very selective reading, I'll ask again: Why should they be safe while afk in enemy territory?

You've never had a logical response to this, so I'm going to ignore any further posts from you until you do have one.

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because thats the sole purpose of cloaking? staying in hostile area and gather informations.

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Originally by: Rhadia

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Dude, you're an idiot. You can't gather intel if you're not at the computer unless you're like... recording it with fraps or something to watch it later.

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Originally by: darius mclever

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Originally by: Rhadia

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Dude, you're an idiot. You can't gather intel if you're not at the computer unless you're like... recording it with fraps or something to watch it later.

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and your client can still be "AFK". because you just have to look at it. not clicking around or move.

you can do other things on the 2nd screen/computer e.g.

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Originally by: Rhadia

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Dude, you're an idiot. You can't gather intel if you're not at the computer unless you're like... recording it with fraps or something to watch it later.

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Originally by: Robert Caldera

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stupid ass, whats that hard to understand? Gathering intel implies a lot of afking!! Whether you like it or not. There is not always happening somewhat, so you come back, check if there is something happening and go back to other business if there is all quiet.

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Originally by: Robert Caldera

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stupid ass, whats that hard to understand? Gathering intel implies a lot of afking!! Whether you like it or not. There is not always happening somewhat, so you come back, check if there is something happening and go back to other business if there is all quiet.

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Originally by: rowdy buccaneer

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what about either a beacon mod to detect
or drones that will not just orbit but wander around a certain perimeter or just be able to have ur drones orbit you or a fleet member at diferent orbiting (or further away) distances!!!!!!!

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Originally by: Torothanax

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Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.

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Originally by: Allestin Villimar

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So you're actively playing, but can't be assed to warp around every few minutes to avoid what I suggested?

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Originally by: Allestin Villimar

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So I've been hanging out in 0.0 for a couple of months now. When there are enemy fleets in the area, we engage them, blow each other up, and it's fun.

But problems arise when we get some random ****hat in a stealth bomber. He'll come into the system, get through bubbles easily by instantly cloaking, and then they can warp off into whatever safe spot and afk for hours. After that, just camp a jump bridge, gate, or look for an anomaly, then blow them up and warp off again. Due to the high damage of bombs and torpedoes, and the undetectable nature of cloaking, there is no real risk to this tactic.

Since EVE is all about risk, I'm proposing three things:
1) Cloaks will only auto-cycle for 5-10 minutes. There is no risk to you if you're actually there since you can just reactivate it, but it'll stop the people who afk for hours at a safe spot. At the same time, the cycle lasts long enough that you can go make a sandwich or use the bathroom without worrying too much.

2) Cloak detection probes. These will have a max detection range of 5-10 AU, and again, won't be much of a threat to people who are there and scanning for them - you can see they have a probe out and you can warp off.

3) Anti-cloak bubbles. This provides a 30 km bubble that de-cloaks any ship inside of it, but can't be used within 100 km of jump gates. Downside is significantly increased lock time for the ships within the bubble, which gives people a chance to get away. I'm debating on what kind of ships this should be fitted on (it wouldn't be a deployable), probably either a heavy interdictor (can't use the warp bubble while it's up) or a heavy assault cruiser.

My goal is not to make low/null sec travel more dangerous, just to make stealth bombing a riskier endeavor than it currently is.

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Originally by: Black Dranzer

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Cloaked ships are generally weak ships whose primary use is evading detection. Occasionally though, a stealth bomber will find you when you're alone and shred you without you being able to do much about it because that's what they're f-cking designed for.

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Originally by: Sepheir Sepheron

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Originally by: Black Dranzer

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Cloaked ships are generally weak ships whose primary use is evading detection. Occasionally though, a stealth bomber will find you when you're alone and shred you without you being able to do much about it because that's what they're f-cking designed for.

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lol this

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Originally by: Mag's

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Edited by: Mag''s on 06/08/2010 09:16:23
I run my PC with this char and my laptop with the scout.

I routinely have the scout logged in, sat off the gate watching for the type of ships that are jumping through and more importantly when they do.
I am by all intents and purposes AFK, even though the client is being used and scans run. But there the char sits, in the same spot for hours.

So all of you whining about the afk pilot, are saying I cannot now play the game that way, because you don't like it?

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Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer

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It's a cloak, it's supposed to cloak you. Just because you want to see that cloaker doesn't mean you should.

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Originally by: Mara Rinn

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So you're actively playing, but can't be assed to stay aligned to a celestial while ratting with a red in local?

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Originally by: AtheistOfFail

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1) Sure. You should also be able to launch bombs while cloaked.

2) Sure. If MWD is available while cloaked.

3) Sure. If the bubble gives 500% speed to any covert ops ships with no sig penalty.

Otherwise, quit whining about ships that have very little tank and have DPS. You got to pick one over the other. Cloaking is fine, nothing to fix

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Originally by: Allestin Villimar

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What I suggested would only make it so you have to warp him if there are people hunting you down. If there aren't, it wouldn't affect anything. Why should a very cheap, easily trained module give you the same safety as if you were in a station?

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Originally by: Torothanax

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Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.

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Originally by: Mag's

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Wrong. What you are suggesting means, that every time I see probes in my DS, I have to warp around.
It would become the normal thing for someone to jump into a system, park within DS range from a gate, and throw out some probes. They wouldn't even need to start a scan for it to work.

Also why should it not give the same safety as docked, I cannot target anyone or kill anyone docked, neither can I cloaked.
Your reasons for this nerf are laughable at best.

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Originally by: Allestin Villimar

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Originally by: Mag's

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Wrong. What you are suggesting means, that every time I see probes in my DS, I have to warp around.
It would become the normal thing for someone to jump into a system, park within DS range from a gate, and throw out some probes. They wouldn't even need to start a scan for it to work.

Also why should it not give the same safety as docked, I cannot target anyone or kill anyone docked, neither can I cloaked.
Your reasons for this nerf are laughable at best.

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So let me get this straight - stealth bomber comes into system, everyone needs to become defensive, whether that player is active or not.
But if a stealth bomber suddenly has to become defensive because someone is looking for them, even when the only method of doing so takes minutes to scan them down, that's not fair?

Do you people even think about what you post? My suggestions do nothing to stop stealth bombers from picking and choosing their targets. What it does is prevent you from sitting in the same spot for hours waiting for targets to come to you. Given how long it takes to probe something out, the only way for them to catch you is if you go afk.

If you want to afk, dock up or find a pos like everyone else. If you can't be bothered enough to warp around every 2-3 minutes because someone is probing for you, you shouldn't be in a hostile system.

Cloaked ships can cyno in multiple carriers within seconds, stealth bombers can lock and have bombs/torps off out of a cloak before the other ship can even target them. Saying you can't do anything because you're cloaked is bull****, flat out.

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Originally by: Torothanax

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Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.

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Originally by: Rhadia

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Yet again, Darius is circumventing the point of this thread. We don't give a damn about your tactics and what can be done to counteract a Stealth Bomber- It's the fact that they have 100% invulnerability for as long as they want wherever they want without any consequence.

Etc.

Please stop bringing up debates that really are almost entirely inconsequential to the discussion at hand- We're really only trying to support a nerf that hits only the afk part of afk cloaking. You guys seem to blow that out of proportion way too much.

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Originally by: darius mclever

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Edited by: darius mclever on 06/08/2010 18:02:10
no, our real gripe is that most people whining here about nerfing cloaks, are idiots who fly around in 0.0 like it would be highsec. and when someone challenges that security. they dont even think about adapting. even your question illustrates that nicely? "everyone needs to become defensive" - i wonder how you can fly around in 0.0 without flying defensively. especially if you are not combat ready.

let me just ask you ... when you started to get people regularly cloaking up in your system, did your corp/alliance member adapt their behavior (and no i dont mean sitting in station all day long).

did they went for ratting in groups?
did they went ratting in pvp fit ships?
did they fit to tank anything else than the rats damage types?
if they went ratting solo, did they share a common fleet atleast so people could come and help each other in case of an attack?
did they all join a common voicecom channel to coordinate helping/give intel?
did they fly a bit more defensively than normally?
did you provide guards for your mining ops?

I would bet the answer to every single question will be "no" or "mostly they carried on as before". when ever i saw people dying to cloakies it was solo, in a pve fit ship that i wouldnt even use in highsec.

with that background ... the crying for "nerf cloaks" is just irony. seriously ... watch the video i linked earlier. and ask yourself why the pilot gets kills repeatedly in the home system of that alliance.

And if your members start flying around in combat ready ships, it also makes it much easier to fight off a non cloaky hostiles that enter your system. because things like neuts, ec- drones also work against other types of attack. not just bombers. and people who are prepared to fight even defeat hot drops from bomber/recon/BO gangs, and all that without a cloak detection/cloak disabling module that makes fitting a cloak pretty questionable and useless for its intended use cases. (e.g. to sit out aggression counters when you have to go afk and logging out would just be suicide then.)

will all the things mentioned above make losses go away? not really you can still be caught off guard or by superior numbers. but atleast a solo bomber isnt so much a reason to sit in station, because you might loose your ship when you undock.

and now ... watch the video please. it isn't that long.

(edit: lol i just see on the killboard that Mark Hadden, the author of the video, is hunting in your space too. please don't tell me the whole thread is because of him.)

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Originally by: darius maclever

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and then you can really just ask ... you wanna nerf a module that works as intended because you fail to follow even the most obvious rules, rules which make the rest out there survive. And you need a good reason to nerf something that severely and you should prove that this nerf is the only way to get back the balance in a combat encounter. (good luck with that)

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Originally by: Allestin Villimar

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whaaaa.

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Originally by: Torothanax

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Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.

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Originally by: Mag's

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Edited by: Mag''s on 06/08/2010 23:12:15

Originally by: Allestin Villimar

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whaaaa.

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You may get some pointers from this thread.
Instead of whining about something, they have adapted and come up with ways to avoid it.

You on the other hand, are afflicted with a weak mind. You don't want to adapt or change your ways, you only see it from your point of view.
You want change, no matter what the cost to other play styles or game mechanics. Nothing but the complete nerf or removal of cloaking, will satisfy you.

But as you have tunnel vision on this, you'll never admit to it.

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Originally by: Rhadia

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You on the other hand, are afflicted with weak logic. You don't want to accept that the same rules that apply to everyone else (Eve is dangerous) should also apply to the cloaked bomber.

But as you have tunnel vision on this, you'll never admit to it.

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Originally by: Torothanax

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Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.

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