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Alty VonAltenstein
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Posted - 2010.07.31 04:24:00 -
[1]
http://www.break.com/index/office-worker-goes-absolutely-insane.html
Has anyone ever seen anyone flip out like that in real life?
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.07.31 05:08:00 -
[2]
I keep a loaded gun in my desk and I train and approve of all coworkers doing the same.
An armed society is a polite society -- George Washington.
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Pr1ncess Alia
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Posted - 2010.07.31 05:12:00 -
[3]
And people look at me funny when I throw my pen across the office in frustration.
 Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
I keep a loaded gun in my desk and I train and approve of all coworkers doing the same.
An armed society is a polite society -- George Washington.
i have a carry permit but....
wtf are you going to accomplish by pulling a gun on someone like that except maybe getting yourself thrown in jail for manslaughter?
guns are last resorts, not universal cure-alls
grab a couple other men, subdue the psycho until the police arrive.
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Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Alty VonAltenstein
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Posted - 2010.07.31 05:30:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
And people look at me funny when I throw my pen across the office in frustration.
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
I keep a loaded gun in my desk and I train and approve of all coworkers doing the same.
An armed society is a polite society -- George Washington.
i have a carry permit but....
wtf are you going to accomplish by pulling a gun on someone like that except maybe getting yourself thrown in jail for manslaughter?
guns are last resorts, not universal cure-alls
grab a couple other men, subdue the psycho until the police arrive.
well the guy did have an axe
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.07.31 05:35:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
And people look at me funny when I throw my pen across the office in frustration.
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
I keep a loaded gun in my desk and I train and approve of all coworkers doing the same.
An armed society is a polite society -- George Washington.
i have a carry permit but....
wtf are you going to accomplish by pulling a gun on someone like that except maybe getting yourself thrown in jail for manslaughter?
guns are last resorts, not universal cure-alls
grab a couple other men, subdue the psycho until the police arrive.
Can we compromise on beating the crap out of him in the parking lot?
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Mazzarins Demise
Profit Development and Research Association
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Posted - 2010.07.31 05:46:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Mazzarins Demise on 31/07/2010 05:49:17
If you look on the right when the angry dude is smashing the copier, you'll see a guy filming him.
Here's the video.
Linkage
_________________________________________
Support the "Seed Primae on the market and ORE LP Stores" proposal! Click here |
Pr1ncess Alia
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Posted - 2010.07.31 06:21:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Can we compromise on beating the crap out of him in the parking lot?
After he threw that monitor at that chick?
Eaaaasily agree on beating the crap out of him in the parking lot.
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Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.07.31 06:43:00 -
[8]
Props to the stout little security guard who took the friggen fire ax out the the madmans hands and tossed him over a file cabinent then near the end of the clip tossed him to the ground and beat the crap out of him. o7 
This is what happens when you stuff too many people into a tiny area and expect them to get along.
Originally by: Balsak
Eve-Online, the game that is so awesome people are willing to give CCP money so that they may have the privilege to bash it.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.07.31 07:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mazzarins Demise
If you look on the right when the angry dude is smashing the copier, you'll see a guy filming him.
Here's the video.
Linkage
Hey, is that Russian they speak, or some other slavic language ?
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2010.07.31 10:21:00 -
[10]
Yeah...
Its not like this in 99.9999999% of offices. 
--
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2010.07.31 10:24:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Can we compromise on beating the crap out of him in the parking lot?
I see you are in the business of creating problems and not solving them.
--
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Indimiel
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Posted - 2010.07.31 10:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Akita T
Hey, is that Russian they speak, or some other slavic language ?
Yeah it's russian. Kinda crazy hearing one of the chicks in the background shouting "Don't hit him! Stop it! He calmed down! What are ye doing? You are going to kill him, stop it!" when they pull the guy off the desk and are trying to restrain him.
I am not sure where ye are seeing a fire axe though. Dude attacked the copier with some kinda stand, which is a long long way off.
Also: after this thread I am very glad I don't work in an american office, where you might get some Mad Max wannabe encouraging everyone to pack heat.
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ceaon
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Posted - 2010.07.31 13:47:00 -
[13]
in order to get better work condition this should happen each day on random offices
just saying
when CCP asked for a vote got this
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Gneeznow
Minmatar
Ship spinners inc
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Posted - 2010.07.31 18:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
I keep a loaded gun in my desk and I train and approve of all coworkers doing the same.
An armed society is a polite society -- George Washington.
Yeah me too I carry an Uzi when I go to work (I'm a teacher) and I carry an M16 in the trunk of my car and I sleep with an AK-47 beside the bed and if anyone gives me any hassle I just pull a gun on them because USA is the best country in the world
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Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2010.07.31 21:32:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 31/07/2010 21:32:53
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
I keep a loaded gun in my desk and I train and approve of all coworkers doing the same.
An armed society is a polite society -- George Washington.
Yup. One half of the population is polite. The other half is in jail. Charged with murder.
Welcome to USA today.
Originally by: Dianabolic
Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL. |
Atomos Darksun
D00M.
Excessum Messor
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Posted - 2010.07.31 21:55:00 -
[16]
Confirming that the Wild West was polite.
Originally by: Amoxin
My vent is talking to me in a devil voice...
Linkification, Baby. |
Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2010.08.01 11:30:00 -
[17]
I find the reaction of the coworkers more amazing, in societies where people can relate to each other in a more personal way, some of the ~10 adults standing around would have tried to calm him down and possibly restrain him... But the zombies in that office were just acting like scared little children.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Sazkyen
State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.08.01 13:13:00 -
[18]
I feel sorry for everyone in that video. Especially the guy who went crazy. I'm quite sure he didn't do it out of sheer enjoyment. He ruined his life probably over some other ****up like huge loans, family problems, job related **** or some other stuff.
Terrible.
Still funny for a few mins though.
-SIG-
Ship comparison |
Gneeznow
Minmatar
Ship spinners inc
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Posted - 2010.08.01 13:26:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sazkyen
I feel sorry for everyone in that video. Especially the guy who went crazy. I'm quite sure he didn't do it out of sheer enjoyment. He ruined his life probably over some other ****up like huge loans, family problems, job related **** or some other stuff.
Terrible.
Still funny for a few mins though.
hardly ruined his life, probably had to go to court pay a fine, maybe do a little community service, all he would have to do to get back on track is move somewhere else and make up a fake reference on his CV in place of his old workplace.
People dont have long memories
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Caldari Citizen20090217
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Posted - 2010.08.01 14:13:00 -
[20]
Like a poster above me said - props to the guy who took the axe off him.
Lol @ the 2 women hiding behind the big guy at about 1:30, and trying to shove him forwards into the fray.
It might be the quality of the image, but did anyone else notice the monitors he threw both had no cables attached?
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Indimiel
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Gneeznow
hardly ruined his life, probably had to go to court pay a fine, maybe do a little community service, all he would have to do to get back on track is move somewhere else and make up a fake reference on his CV in place of his old workplace.
People dont have long memories
Would also likely have to go to a mental institution to get treatment, have to disclose that as part of his medical history, etc. Plus this is Russia where the courts can be pretty damn vicious, rather than handing everyone suspended sentences like in the West, and judging by his job he doesn't have the funding to get good treatment from the courts or the hospitals.
And again, where are ye all seeing the axe? He's got some stand, which isn't very heavy or dangerous, that is taken off him by the little security guard.
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:45:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Blane Xero on 01/08/2010 15:48:06
Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217
Like a poster above me said - props to the guy who took the axe off him.
Lol @ the 2 women hiding behind the big guy at about 1:30, and trying to shove him forwards into the fray.
It might be the quality of the image, but did anyone else notice the monitors he threw both had no cables attached?
Old CRT's, likely not screw-in cables and thus easy to pull out.
It was not a fire axe. If it was, the dude who put it down wouldn't have left it in the same room as the guy; if you pause when he's swinging in the colour camera video, you'll see it's a stand with a circular base.
_____________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout
Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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Menkaure
Amarr
LEM0N
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:49:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
I keep a loaded gun in my desk and I train and approve of all coworkers doing the same.
An armed society is a polite society -- George Washington.
And what happens if you snap and go bat**** insane?
Someones gonna get shot.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.08.01 16:06:00 -
[24]
Bah! Most of you certainly seem like office workers - got that "urban anti gun attitude" that the rest of America laughs at. Soft lives, effete results.
Well, if my gun in my desk bothers you guys, then keep electing politicians who want to put me away for it. Go ahead and elect those who want to outright disarm us all.
Those of us on the receiving end of "what you want" are waiting for it.
(and I have yet to meet a police officer or soldier who wants to enforce "your laws").
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Vogue
Skynet Nexus
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Posted - 2010.08.01 16:33:00 -
[25]
If I had a gun 
..................................................
Cylon cultural victor! |
Indimiel
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Posted - 2010.08.01 17:18:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Menkaure
And what happens if you snap and go bat**** insane?
Someones gonna get shot.
... or somebody else snaps while he's on lunch break.
... or one of the kids finds this cool GTA controller on bring-your-spawnlings-to-work-day.
... or somebody plain out has a bad day, and gets shot for it, despite not being a serious threat to anyone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsN0FCXw914
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.08.01 17:54:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Indimiel
Originally by: Menkaure
And what happens if you snap and go bat**** insane?
Someones gonna get shot.
... or somebody else snaps while he's on lunch break.
... or one of the kids finds this cool GTA controller on bring-your-spawnlings-to-work-day.
... or somebody plain out has a bad day, and gets shot for it, despite not being a serious threat to anyone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsN0FCXw914
I have observed that the source of what causes a society where people are "snapping" are also the same people who want to turn our world into one big padded cell.
They will never admit their progressive psychobabbling social engineering schemes are a failure.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.08.01 20:05:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Originally by: Indimiel
Originally by: Menkaure
And what happens if you snap and go bat**** insane?
Someones gonna get shot.
... or somebody else snaps while he's on lunch break.
... or one of the kids finds this cool GTA controller on bring-your-spawnlings-to-work-day.
... or somebody plain out has a bad day, and gets shot for it, despite not being a serious threat to anyone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsN0FCXw914
I have observed that the source of what causes a society where people are "snapping" are also the same people who want to turn our world into one big padded cell.
They will never admit their progressive psychobabbling social engineering schemes are a failure.
As someone who works as security I have to say the last thing I want is for the office staff to be armed with guns.
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.08.02 00:10:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
I find the reaction of the coworkers more amazing, in societies where people can relate to each other in a more personal way, some of the ~10 adults standing around would have tried to calm him down and possibly restrain him... But the zombies in that office were just acting like scared little children.
^^ This. One guy actually makes the effort to control the situation and everyone else just gawks, even when the one guy could use help in pinning the berserker down.
If you can't take the guy down, then at least help/encourage people to evacuate.
-----
"Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you!
-- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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So Sensational
GREY COUNCIL
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.08.02 00:54:00 -
[30]
I don't trust people enough to allow giving them guns, but I don't trust them because they're all thieves, murderers and just generally idiots that deserve to die. This is why I'd like to own a gun, just in case I have to bust a cap, yo.
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Citivolus
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Posted - 2010.08.02 00:59:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Citivolus on 02/08/2010 01:00:26
I think using a fire arm on this guy would not of been out of the question. He had an axe... one swing and it could of hit an artery = dead before someone could save the victim. Also, you dont know why he snapped, i mean worst case scenario is he is a guy that thinks he has nothing left to lose. They are the scariest.
I am glad that the guy wasnt shot or anything, but i do like that i can hold a permitted fire arm in the U.S. Maybe just because i live in a high gun crime city. I know how to use it and went through the right ways to get it. If they took it away, well i wouldnt have it ofcourse, but you think that the "bad guys" wouldnt? They get theirs illegally through gun running anyway.
My .02 isk.
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So Sensational
GREY COUNCIL
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.08.02 01:04:00 -
[32]
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Pan Crastus
I find the reaction of the coworkers more amazing, in societies where people can relate to each other in a more personal way, some of the ~10 adults standing around would have tried to calm him down and possibly restrain him... But the zombies in that office were just acting like scared little children.
^^ This. One guy actually makes the effort to control the situation and everyone else just gawks, even when the one guy could use help in pinning the berserker down.
If you can't take the guy down, then at least help/encourage people to evacuate.
Maybe these people just don't give a **** unless they become the target? I'd probably go in there but only because it would give me the opportunity to knock someone out without going to jail or being sued.
Also, IN SOVIET RUSSIA, YOU FIRE OFFICE.
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.08.02 01:13:00 -
[33]
Edited by: stoicfaux on 02/08/2010 01:13:20
Originally by: Citivolus
Edited by: Citivolus on 02/08/2010 01:00:26
I think using a fire arm on this guy would not of been out of the question. He had an axe... one swing and it could of hit an artery = dead before someone could save the victim. Also, you dont know why he snapped, i mean worst case scenario is he is a guy that thinks he has nothing left to lose. They are the scariest.
The problem with pulling a firearm is that just seeing the gun (you're being confrontational) might be enough to anger him further. End result is that the guy gets shot not because people are in danger, he's shot because seeing the gun angered him further. Not a good reason to shoot someone, IMO.
If he's just trashing office furniture then just let him wear himself out. However, if he's throwing monitors at people and threatening bodily harm with a coat rack (it wasn't an axe) then you're in a gray area.
-----
"Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you!
-- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Citivolus
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Posted - 2010.08.02 01:20:00 -
[34]
Originally by: stoicfaux
Edited by: stoicfaux on 02/08/2010 01:13:20
Originally by: Citivolus
Edited by: Citivolus on 02/08/2010 01:00:26
I think using a fire arm on this guy would not of been out of the question. He had an axe... one swing and it could of hit an artery = dead before someone could save the victim. Also, you dont know why he snapped, i mean worst case scenario is he is a guy that thinks he has nothing left to lose. They are the scariest.
The problem with pulling a firearm is that just seeing the gun (you're being confrontational) might be enough to anger him further. End result is that the guy gets shot not because people are in danger, he's shot because seeing the gun angered him further. Not a good reason to shoot someone, IMO.
If he's just trashing office furniture then just let him wear himself out. However, if he's throwing monitors at people and threatening bodily with a coat rack (it wasn't an axe) then you're in a gray area.
oh, it was a coat rack, i see. Well, i just saw the video once and saw someone say it was an axe. In the infamous coat rack situation... you would let him tire himself out and play the victim to a tragic emotional experience// and get the rest of the day off. 
yeah, seems i didnt see the situation. Just sniffed e-argument out about something i have an opinion on.
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So Sensational
GREY COUNCIL
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.08.02 01:21:00 -
[35]
Edited by: So Sensational on 02/08/2010 01:26:18
Edited by: So Sensational on 02/08/2010 01:21:19
Originally by: Citivolus
Edited by: Citivolus on 02/08/2010 01:00:26
I think using a fire arm on this guy would not of been out of the question. He had an axe... one swing and it could of hit an artery = dead before someone could save the victim. Also, you dont know why he snapped, i mean worst case scenario is he is a guy that thinks he has nothing left to lose. They are the scariest.
I am glad that the guy wasnt shot or anything, but i do like that i can hold a permitted fire arm in the U.S. Maybe just because i live in a high gun crime city. I know how to use it and went through the right ways to get it. If they took it away, well i wouldnt have it ofcourse, but you think that the "bad guys" wouldnt? They get theirs illegally through gun running anyway.
My .02 isk.
Hello, let me link something for you that might make you question how easy access to firearms might possibly make a society more prone to violence. Keep in mind that no other country anywhere near the top of this list is, in any form or way, close to being the most prosperous nation on the planet. Nor have they ever been (Russia wasn't Russia when they were an Empire, or the Soviet **** hole leftovers of that empire), for those of you who are China is de FUTUR3 believers.
You'd have to scroll down to spot 60 to find a legitimate western civilization and that's some island that the brits seem to own, just north of Normandy. I had no idea that it even existed tbh.
I'm not saying that guns are solely responsible, I'm sure your culture is ****ed up in 28 different ways I can't even imagine. But I'm also quite confident that it's a part of the problem. Here in my communist love palace of Sweden you don't even consider the ownership of a gun unless you're already a criminal and you want to move onto the big leagues.
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Citivolus
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Posted - 2010.08.02 02:02:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Citivolus on 02/08/2010 02:04:20
Edited by: Citivolus on 02/08/2010 02:03:10
Originally by: So Sensational
Edited by: So Sensational on 02/08/2010 01:29:38
Originally by: Citivolus
Edited by: Citivolus on 02/08/2010 01:00:26
I think using a fire arm on this guy would not of been out of the question. He had an axe... one swing and it could of hit an artery = dead before someone could save the victim. Also, you dont know why he snapped, i mean worst case scenario is he is a guy that thinks he has nothing left to lose. They are the scariest.
I am glad that the guy wasnt shot or anything, but i do like that i can hold a permitted fire arm in the U.S. Maybe just because i live in a high gun crime city. I know how to use it and went through the right ways to get it. If they took it away, well i wouldnt have it ofcourse, but you think that the "bad guys" wouldnt? They get theirs illegally through gun running anyway.
My .02 isk.
Hello, let me link something for you that might make you question how easy access to firearms might possibly make a society more prone to violence. Keep in mind that no other country anywhere near the top of this list is, in any form or way, close to being the most prosperous nation on the planet. Nor have they ever been (Russia wasn't Russia when they were an Empire, or the Soviet **** hole leftovers of that empire), for those of you who are China is de FUTUR3 believers.
You'd have to scroll down to spot 60 to find a legitimate western civilization and that's some island that the brits seem to own, just north of Normandy. I had no idea that it even existed tbh.
I'm not saying that guns are solely responsible, I'm sure your culture is ****ed up in 28 different ways I can't even imagine. But I'm also quite confident that it's a part of the problem. Here in my communist love palace of Sweden you don't even consider the ownership of a gun unless you're already a criminal and you want to move onto the big leagues.
Edit: There's also Greenland but who the **** wouldn't be mad if they lived in Greenland? I'm surprised they even have prisons, just subdue the criminal, lock him outside without clothes and then bring him in and heat him up when his sentence is over.
I can agree with you.. that the availability of guns does make it more of a problem and why we have a high incarceration rate. Although, this is disproven in many places... like canada. Their guns per capita is almost equal to the U.S. I really cant tell you all the answers because in truth America is a backwards nation sometimes. I think it really just the mentality sometimes. Big **** syndrome runs rampant here.
I just hate to see the rights i currently have revoked because as na intelligible cool minded individual who could perhaps defend himself from the violent nation he lives in.
And you dont have to be a big time theif to get an illegal gun. (hot or what not) you just have to be a knuckle head wit a wad of cash. I can agree that the availability is the problem perhaps.
I have a fire arm for home defense more than anything...
because if someone was pointing another gun on the street, well im not going to quick draw him... (unless, its my wallet then yes i intend to give it to the nice man with the gun pointed at me) But break ins ... and they do happen around where i live, it is very applicable.
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.08.02 04:39:00 -
[37]
Originally by: So Sensational
Hello, let me link something for you that might make you question how easy access to firearms might possibly make a society more prone to violence.
What does incarceration rate have to do with gun ownership?
Quote:
I'm not saying that guns are solely responsible, I'm sure your culture is ****ed up in 28 different ways I can't even imagine. But I'm also quite confident that it's a part of the problem. Here in my communist love palace of Sweden you don't even consider the ownership of a gun unless you're already a criminal and you want to move onto the big leagues.
It's trade off. If slaves have guns, they're not slaves. If gun ownership is a right, then your 'deaths by firearm' numbers will probably increase. However, the probability of your government successfully re-establishing the slave trade, sending minority groups to work camps, etc., approaches zero.
Seriously, what would happen to China's human rights record if all of China's citizens had the right (and means) to own firearms?
-----
"Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you!
-- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Slightly Sensational
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Posted - 2010.08.02 06:10:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Slightly Sensational on 02/08/2010 06:10:11
Originally by: Citivolus
I can agree with you.. that the availability of guns does make it more of a problem and why we have a high incarceration rate. Although, this is disproven in many places... like canada. Their guns per capita is almost equal to the U.S. I really cant tell you all the answers because in truth America is a backwards nation sometimes. I think it really just the mentality sometimes. Big **** syndrome runs rampant here.
Yeah definitely, as I said, I don't blame the guns entirely but they're a contributor and likely a big one too. Holding up a liquor store with a gun is a much smaller step into a criminal life than doing so with a knife. A knife is more personal, a knife is more dangerous for the perp, a knife is not as intimidating, and so on.
Originally by: stoicfaux
What does incarceration rate have to do with gun ownership?
Crime leads to crime yeah? If you have nothing better to do than to rob people you might as well start raping them too, if you weren't robbing them in the first place you probably wouldn't be raping them either. Perhaps **** isn't the best crime to illustrate the point but I like the word, **** that is.
Quote:
Seriously, what would happen to China's human rights record if all of China's citizens had the right (and means) to own firearms?
**** all without a revolution/some other spark.
Edit: Fail alt posting
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Aera Aiana
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.08.02 09:21:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Aera Aiana on 02/08/2010 09:22:09
I wonder why only few people leave the office. I sure would see that I get out of there, let the guy calm down without so many people around him. He probably wouldn't have trashed the office half as bad if everyone had just left.
Not to mention the fact that it isn't their office, but their crappy employers office. Given the conditions there, he probably doesn't deserve any better than to have the place in pieces. 
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CCP Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2010.08.02 16:55:00 -
[40]
We have nerf guns in the office but people lose their ammo so we don't use them often.
Very glad we don't see this kind of action at CCP, although when there is icecream on the balcony in summer it is every man and woman for themselves.
Pink Dread has been hijacked
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Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.08.02 17:22:00 -
[41]
I guess he finally got word that the fixes he wanted were not scheduled to be dealt with for another 18 months
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.08.02 19:57:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Slightly Sensational
Yeah definitely, as I said, I don't blame the guns entirely but they're a contributor and likely a big one too. Holding up a liquor store with a gun is a much smaller step into a criminal life than doing so with a knife. A knife is more personal, a knife is more dangerous for the perp, a knife is not as intimidating, and so on.
If everyone is armed, then how easy is it to rob a liquor store?
Quote:
Originally by: stoicfaux
What does incarceration rate have to do with gun ownership?
Crime leads to crime yeah? If you have nothing better to do than to rob people you might as well start raping them too, if you weren't robbing them in the first place you probably wouldn't be raping them either. Perhaps **** isn't the best crime to illustrate the point but I like the word, **** that is.
What's your point? I still don't see why you're assuming that people owning guns increases crime and/or results in large incarceration rates. Why and in what cases would it?
The US Drug War and drug laws have been criticized for putting large number of non-violent offenders in jail. Just how many prisoners are in prison for firearm related crimes?
"So Sensational" posted a link to prison populations with the unfounded assumption that large prison populations are related to firearm availability. Bad assumption, IMO. *shrug*
Quote:
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Seriously, what would happen to China's human rights record if all of China's citizens had the right (and means) to own firearms?
**** all without a revolution/some other spark.
The Chinese tend to prefer stability over revolution. If entire towns were armed, I don't think people would put up with the local party official's enforcement of edicts and harmonious well-being. (Revolution is one thing, a rash of local petty officials being "neutralized" is less dramatic.) If the local party officials are impotent, then the central party party is impotent.
-----
"Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you!
-- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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So Sensational
GREY COUNCIL
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Posted - 2010.08.02 22:05:00 -
[43]
Edited by: So Sensational on 02/08/2010 22:06:30
Originally by: stoicfaux
If everyone is armed, then how easy is it to rob a liquor store?
Plenty of armed store owners get robbed everyday, some of them do stand up for themselves but it doesn't seem to be enough of a deterrent.
Quote:
What's your point? I still don't see why you're assuming that people owning guns increases crime and/or results in large incarceration rates. Why and in what cases would it?
Easy availability of firearms leads to an easier entry into a criminal life and an easier escalation into heavier crimes, a criminal life leads to more crime in general, not only by yourself but by those around you. Little brothers, sons, friends, and so on.
Quote:
The Chinese tend to prefer stability over revolution. If entire towns were armed, I don't think people would put up with the local party official's enforcement of edicts and harmonious well-being. (Revolution is one thing, a rash of local petty officials being "neutralized" is less dramatic.) If the local party officials are impotent, then the central party party is impotent.
It's cute that you argue the gun owners utopian world (where everyone has guns, work together and fight the power) against today's party. If entire towns were armed they still wouldn't stand a chance against the mighty all-powerful centralized party that has spies everywhere, assassinates people from black choppers and wear ninja suits.
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Seriya
Caldari
Debitum Naturae
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2010.08.03 01:05:00 -
[44]
Im guessing someone ganked his ship in jita with billions of isk in loot in his cargo. Emorage quit and took his anger out on everyone
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Olleybear
I R' Carebear
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Posted - 2010.08.03 03:38:00 -
[45]
Originally by: So Sensational
Easy availability of firearms leads to an easier entry into a criminal life and an easier escalation into heavier crimes, a criminal life leads to more crime in general, not only by yourself but by those around you. Little brothers, sons, friends, and so on.
I just quoted a small part of one persons post, but many people in this thread are making the same mistake.
Correlation does not imply Causation
Or for those that dont want to read the link:
Correlation between two variables does not automatically imply that one causes the other.
For instance, I can say that the global rise in temperatures is directly related to the decrease in the number of pirates in the RL world. Both facts by themselves are true, but one is not the cause of the other. Saying one causes the other, the way people say guns cause more violence, is wrong.
People cause violence. The guy in the video was using a coat rack for gods sake. If we were to then say coat racks cause violence in the workplace and we are glad our workplaces dont have coat racks, we would be just as wrong.
To educate those that dont understand why Americas 2nd Amendment even exists, our 2nd amendment exists so the citizens can protect themselves from an oppressive government that would lob a few mustard gas shells at a part of the population they dont like. Like Sadam Husein did to the kurds in the south of Iraq when he was in power.
People often dont realize just how nasty the world really is because they are in their airconditioned offices and homes watching some so called reality show after filling their bellies from the convienance of their refrigerator.
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.08.03 04:48:00 -
[46]
Edited by: stoicfaux on 03/08/2010 04:48:14
Originally by: So Sensational
Easy availability of firearms leads to an easier entry into a criminal life and an easier escalation into heavier crimes, a criminal life leads to more crime in general, not only by yourself but by those around you. Little brothers, sons, friends, and so on.
Eh, probably not. The US likes numbers.
* National Violent Death Reporting System
* the NVDRS report
* US Center for Disease Control: Injury Prevention & Control: Data & Statistics (WISQARSTM)
* US Bureau of Justice Statistics - Check out the increase in prison population and the increase in drug arrests. Check out that firearm homicides dropped.
* 10 Leading Causes of Injury Death by Age Group
Highlighting Violence-Related Injury Deaths, United States û 2006
Looks more like age and race are more likely to affect who gets killed by a firearm. More people commit suicide with firearms than die from firearm homicides.
Long story short, it's complicated. Making overly simplistic statements like "guns cause crimes" is just a lazy way of not dealing with the problem. It takes a lot of effort to define the problem, analyze it, and then implement solutions. Even if you were to pony up the time, money and effort to end firearm related deaths, you could have saved more lives by reducing motor vehicle deaths instead. 
Quote:
It's cute that you argue the gun owners utopian world (where everyone has guns, work together and fight the power) against today's party.
No, no. A gun owning world doesn't create utopias. Instead, guns help to prevent dystopias.
-----
"Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you!
-- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Zumra
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Posted - 2010.08.03 04:48:00 -
[47]
Originally by: So Sensational
Edited by: So Sensational on 02/08/2010 01:29:38
Originally by: Citivolus
Edited by: Citivolus on 02/08/2010 01:00:26
I think using a fire arm on this guy would not of been out of the question. He had an axe... one swing and it could of hit an artery = dead before someone could save the victim. Also, you dont know why he snapped, i mean worst case scenario is he is a guy that thinks he has nothing left to lose. They are the scariest.
I am glad that the guy wasnt shot or anything, but i do like that i can hold a permitted fire arm in the U.S. Maybe just because i live in a high gun crime city. I know how to use it and went through the right ways to get it. If they took it away, well i wouldnt have it ofcourse, but you think that the "bad guys" wouldnt? They get theirs illegally through gun running anyway.
My .02 isk.
Hello, let me link something for you that might make you question how easy access to firearms might possibly make a society more prone to violence. Keep in mind that no other country anywhere near the top of this list is, in any form or way, close to being the most prosperous nation on the planet. Nor have they ever been (Russia wasn't Russia when they were an Empire, or the Soviet **** hole leftovers of that empire), for those of you who are China is de FUTUR3 believers.
You'd have to scroll down to spot 60 to find a legitimate western civilization and that's some island that the brits seem to own, just north of Normandy. I had no idea that it even existed tbh.
I'm not saying that guns are solely responsible, I'm sure your culture is ****ed up in 28 different ways I can't even imagine. But I'm also quite confident that it's a part of the problem. Here in my communist love palace of Sweden you don't even consider the ownership of a gun unless you're already a criminal and you want to move onto the big leagues.
Edit: There's also Greenland but who the **** wouldn't be mad if they lived in Greenland? I'm surprised they even have prisons, just subdue the criminal, lock him outside without clothes and then bring him in and heat him up when his sentence is over.
Love Liechtenstein at the bottom of that list with 20 incarcerations/100000 population. If you do the math, it is saying Liechtenstein has 7 people in its jail :P
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So Sensational
GREY COUNCIL
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Posted - 2010.08.03 06:19:00 -
[48]
Edited by: So Sensational on 03/08/2010 06:26:15
Originally by: stoicfaux
Eh, probably not. The US likes numbers.
* National Violent Death Reporting System
* the NVDRS report
* US Center for Disease Control: Injury Prevention & Control: Data & Statistics (WISQARSTM)
* US Bureau of Justice Statistics - Check out the increase in prison population and the increase in drug arrests. Check out that firearm homicides dropped.
* 10 Leading Causes of Injury Death by Age Group
Highlighting Violence-Related Injury Deaths, United States û 2006
Looks more like age and race are more likely to affect who gets killed by a firearm. More people commit suicide with firearms than die from firearm homicides.
More than what? I never claimed anything had anything to do with the likelihood of being shot. Non of your statistics seem to counter my argument in any form or way. The US BoJ stats come closest except I never said that you need to be involved in a homicide while owning a gun to be living a criminal lifestyle, nor is it true. Take a person who buys a gun because he feels he needs protection to be a drug dealer, no gun, no drug dealing. This is obviously simplified but the point stands.
Originally by: stoicfaux
Long story short, it's complicated. Making overly simplistic statements like "guns cause crimes" is just a lazy way of not dealing with the problem. It takes a lot of effort to define the problem, analyze it, and then implement solutions. Even if you were to pony up the time, money and effort to end firearm related deaths, you could have saved more lives by reducing motor vehicle deaths instead.
Very true, I am mostly arguing with the theoretical statement of "guns make the world safer" and the "Don't take my guns away" people in general. Banning civilians from buying guns wouldn't do a lot in the US considering how many are out there already. The illegal market is fairly well established as well, compared to other countries much more so, as far as I know.
Originally by: stoicfaux
No, no. A gun owning world doesn't create utopias. Instead, guns help to prevent dystopias.
And my point was that every Chinese villager can't buy a gun, nor would they if they could, nor could they easily organize and "fight the power". Your example of every villager working together to kill off local government enforcers therefore becomes a utopia. If you think having legal firearms in today's China would decrease the human rights violations then I think you're wrong, probably would make it worse since the powers that be would be more at risk of injury, and thus go at it harder.
Even so, your gun owning world is a utopia in the first place. I'd agree that if every single person had a gun, organized together and no one abused the system, it might be a better place. Assuming the world had my views on every subject. I wouldn't want this to be true in a world of faithful (No modern day "eating pigs is bad but I can have a glass of beer from time to time" version) Islamists who all believe that converting you and yours by Jihad actually is acceptable.
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So Sensational
GREY COUNCIL
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Posted - 2010.08.03 06:25:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Zumra
Originally by: So Sensational
Edited by: So Sensational on 02/08/2010 01:29:38
Originally by: Citivolus
Edited by: Citivolus on 02/08/2010 01:00:26
I think using a fire arm on this guy would not of been out of the question. He had an axe... one swing and it could of hit an artery = dead before someone could save the victim. Also, you dont know why he snapped, i mean worst case scenario is he is a guy that thinks he has nothing left to lose. They are the scariest.
I am glad that the guy wasnt shot or anything, but i do like that i can hold a permitted fire arm in the U.S. Maybe just because i live in a high gun crime city. I know how to use it and went through the right ways to get it. If they took it away, well i wouldnt have it ofcourse, but you think that the "bad guys" wouldnt? They get theirs illegally through gun running anyway.
My .02 isk.
Hello, let me link something for you that might make you question how easy access to firearms might possibly make a society more prone to violence. Keep in mind that no other country anywhere near the top of this list is, in any form or way, close to being the most prosperous nation on the planet. Nor have they ever been (Russia wasn't Russia when they were an Empire, or the Soviet **** hole leftovers of that empire), for those of you who are China is de FUTUR3 believers.
You'd have to scroll down to spot 60 to find a legitimate western civilization and that's some island that the brits seem to own, just north of Normandy. I had no idea that it even existed tbh.
I'm not saying that guns are solely responsible, I'm sure your culture is ****ed up in 28 different ways I can't even imagine. But I'm also quite confident that it's a part of the problem. Here in my communist love palace of Sweden you don't even consider the ownership of a gun unless you're already a criminal and you want to move onto the big leagues.
Edit: There's also Greenland but who the **** wouldn't be mad if they lived in Greenland? I'm surprised they even have prisons, just subdue the criminal, lock him outside without clothes and then bring him in and heat him up when his sentence is over.
Love Liechtenstein at the bottom of that list with 20 incarcerations/100000 population. If you do the math, it is saying Liechtenstein has 7 people in its jail :P
Haha, yeah I don't know if that's true. Some surprising examples on there as well, an island nation called Nauru for example, which is third last on the list. Most other nations like it seem to be fairly high up but when you look closer you find this: "Nauruans are among the most obese people in the world. 90% of adults have a higher BMI than the world average.[46] Nauru has the world's highest level of type 2 diabetes, with more than 40% of the population affected.[47] Other significant dietary-related problems on Nauru include kidney disease and heart disease. Life expectancy on Nauru in 2006 was 58.0 years for males and 65.0 years for females.[48]"
Too fat for crime.
Then there's Timor-leste, last on the list, with highlights such as: "It continues to suffer the aftereffects of a decades-long independence struggle against Indonesia, which damaged infrastructure and displaced thousands of civilians. It is placed 162nd by Human Development Index (HDI) among the world's states, the second lowest in Asia."
I guess they're all so poor no one has any incentive to steal anything from anyone else.
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Olleybear
I R' Carebear
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Posted - 2010.08.03 08:51:00 -
[50]
Originally by: So Sensational
Originally by: Olleybear
Saying one causes the other, the way people say guns cause more violence, is wrong.
People cause violence.
Except I never said that guns cause more violence, I said that the availability of guns, and thus the effect that ownership of a gun has on a person, causes more crime.
You are saying availability of gun and gun ownership causes crime. This is the kind of viewpoint that I described as wrong when I pointed out Correlation does not imply Causation.
You even linked incarceration rates in wikipedia to try to back up your claim that 'easy access to firearms might possibly make a society more prone to violence.' This is another example of Correlation does not imply Causation. Especially considering that wikipedia link is simple a list of incarceration rates. Absolutely nothing is listed about what any of the crimes were and if they were violent/nonviolent crime, let alone if guns were involved.
Saudi Arabia is 69th and Iraq is 141st on that incarceration list. Can we say people are even more free in Saudi Arabia and Iraq than in America because they dont incarcerate as many people as America? Sounds logical doesn't it, even though we both would hate to be a woman living in either country.
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Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
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Posted - 2010.08.03 12:37:00 -
[51]
Originally by: So Sensational
Then there's Timor-leste, last on the list, with highlights such as: "It continues to suffer the aftereffects of a decades-long independence struggle against Indonesia, which damaged infrastructure and displaced thousands of civilians. It is placed 162nd by Human Development Index (HDI) among the world's states, the second lowest in Asia."
I guess they're all so poor no one has any incentive to steal anything from anyone else.
Or they are so poor that they all realize that no one has anything worth stealing and that attempting to do so would be a massive waster of energy.
Remember association does not equal causation.
All that being said, homicide of all types, guns, knives, ropes, etc, is the 15th ranked cause of death in the US. We are talking about less than .75% of the annual death rate. Is this something that really needs attention now a days? I mean yes innocent people die daily from guns, but when guns contribute to so few deaths, do they really need to be banned?
Remember people, we live in a day and age where the media, wherever it is located, is going to put forth the most sensationalized news possible. Just keep that in mind as you all argue from both sides of the fence. We can not save everyone and some people need to die.
"Some people should die. That's just unconscious knowledge"
- Jane's Addiction "Pigs in Zen"
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
So Sensational
GREY COUNCIL
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Posted - 2010.08.03 12:46:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Olleybear
Originally by: So Sensational
Originally by: Olleybear
You are saying availability of gun and gun ownership causes crime. This is the kind of viewpoint that I described as wrong when I pointed out Correlation does not imply Causation.
And I say it's not wrong, here let me point you to that part in your wiki link: "(though correlation is necessary for causation and can indicate possible causes or areas for further investigation)". What you should be saying is "Correlation does not prove causation", which is true. In this case however, my logic tells me that I'm onto something.
Availability -> Ownership -> Criminality. Not because a gun makes you a criminal, but because to become a criminal you might need a gun, you might feel you need a gun, you might not have become a criminal if your gang banging brother didn't have a gun that he gave to you on your 12th birthday.
You even linked incarceration rates in wikipedia to try to back up your claim that 'easy access to firearms might possibly make a society more prone to violence.' This is another example of Correlation does not imply Causation. Especially considering that wikipedia link is simple a list of incarceration rates. Absolutely nothing is listed about what any of the crimes were and if they were violent/nonviolent crime, let alone if guns were involved.
See it's cute when you're using that term all wrong. No correlation does not prove causation in this case, hence the word "possibly". The link wasn't proof, nor has any other link in this thread been proof of the "guns are great" view, including your super hero attempt at logic.
Quote:
Saudi Arabia is 69th and Iraq is 141st on that incarceration list. Can we say people are even more free in Saudi Arabia and Iraq than in America because they dont incarcerate as many people as America? Sounds logical doesn't it, even though we both would hate to be a woman living in either country.
As it turns out it's pretty ****ing easy to avoid jail in Iraq, all you have to do is die in the process. Or just get away with it if you belong to the local gang of thugs, no matter if they're soldiers, a warlord's band, the government, your PMC, whatever extraordinaire non-suicidal terrorist squads are roaming around.
Now I have no idea why you're bringing up freedom in general but it would seem that these two countries are completely different from the US and as such, have other factors that matter when you look at incarceration rates. In the first you could look to their extremely strict culture for example, in the later the fact that if you steal something you'll get your silly thieving face cluster****ed by a stone throwing fanatically religious neighborhood that don't like your kind.
Now if you wanted to be smart about this you could compare the US to say, Germany or Finland, where it's actually legal to own a gun, although from what I can tell they're not as readily available to the criminally insane. Even so they're much further down the list than number 1. Now if you read my posts you'd see that I don't blame guns exclusively.
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Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
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Posted - 2010.08.03 13:05:00 -
[53]
Originally by: So Sensational
Availability -> Ownership -> Criminality. Not because a gun makes you a criminal, but because to become a criminal you might need a gun, you might feel you need a gun, you might not have become a criminal if your gang banging brother didn't have a gun that he gave to you on your 12th birthday.
And again I say that considering the number of guns that are available in the US, legally or illegally acquired, they causes less then 1% point of the actual deaths in the US per year. Seriously now; if guns were legal in your country and foreigners were calling for your country to ban firearms since firearms caused less than 1% of your countries annual deaths would you vote to ban them on the grounds that too many people die by them yearly?
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
Vogue
Skynet Nexus
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Posted - 2010.08.03 13:09:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Vogue on 03/08/2010 13:10:13
I suppose it is the macho image criminals and gangsters associate with guns that in turn makes guns dangerous. A large kitchen knife can be just as lethal as a gun or even a bulky telephone to club someone on the head with. But there is not gratuitous popular fiction that has clubbing someone to death with a telephone glamorous. But there is for guns.
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Cylon cultural victor! |
So Sensational
GREY COUNCIL
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Posted - 2010.08.03 13:25:00 -
[55]
Edited by: So Sensational on 03/08/2010 13:31:45
Quote:
And again I say that considering the number of guns that are available in the US, legally or illegally acquired, they causes less then 1% point of the actual deaths in the US per year. Seriously now; if guns were legal in your country and foreigners were calling for your country to ban firearms since firearms caused less than 1% of your countries annual deaths would you vote to ban them on the grounds that too many people die by them yearly?
Slade
Hello, please read any of my posts and quote me on the part where I said that guns should be banned because they're directly involved in a large percentage of the deaths in the US, so that I may edit that.
Also, no I wouldn't.
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Shanter
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Posted - 2010.08.03 18:46:00 -
[56]
No way the wage of a menial office job is worth trying to stop the Hulk when he's got a coat rack and a few CRTs to toss around.
Also, just to toss my thoughts in, I don't have a problem with me owning guns, I just have a problem with other people owning guns.
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Viral Effect
Caldari
BRAINDEAD Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.03 19:03:00 -
[57]
I have heard of worse freak outs than that.
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Olleybear
I R' Carebear
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Posted - 2010.08.03 21:24:00 -
[58]
Originally by: So Sensational
...including your super hero attempt at logic...
I stopped reading at that point.
Conversation is going from, 'I have a theory about guns', to 'I'm mad and going to throw out insults'.
Further discourse is discouraged and will not be commented on.
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Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
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Posted - 2010.08.03 22:21:00 -
[59]
Originally by: So Sensational
Hello, please read any of my posts and quote me on the part where I said that guns should be banned because they're directly involved in a large percentage of the deaths in the US, so that I may edit that.
Also, no I wouldn't.
I apologize if I made a incorrect assumption. But from your tone and the typical tone of many in OOPE in the past, that is the conclusion I jumped to. So what are you arguing then? Are you arguing that the availbility should be limited since a criminal may want to utilize a gun, or what? With the number of guns in the United States as high as they are, in relation to the number of deaths that are actually caused by guns, I do not see what you are trying to get at.
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
Alty VonAltenstein
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Posted - 2010.08.04 02:19:00 -
[60]
How in the **** did my post turn into a gun control discussion? The guy in the vid didnt even have a gun...he was armed with office supplies!
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Khors
Amtek Inc
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Posted - 2010.08.04 07:02:00 -
[61]
There is no axe in that vid. It's a lamp.
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edtheshed
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.08.04 13:22:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Khors
There is no axe in that vid. It's a lamp.
It sure does look like an axe
Linkage
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Khors
Amtek Inc
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Posted - 2010.08.04 15:42:00 -
[63]
Look closer, it's a lamp foot, not an axe head.
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edtheshed
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.08.04 15:47:00 -
[64]
ah yea your right actually, i watched the original again, it looks like an axe in the second vid cuz he bent it to that shape when he hit the desk with it
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Menkaure
Amarr
LEM0N
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Posted - 2010.08.04 16:57:00 -
[65]
This seems relevant to the way this discussion is going.
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Vogue
Skynet Nexus
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Posted - 2010.08.04 18:32:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Vogue on 04/08/2010 18:32:27
That incident is 72 miles from where my mum lives in Conneticut.
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Cylon cultural victor! |
Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2010.08.04 22:52:00 -
[67]
I do that **** at work all the time
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.08.05 00:50:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 05/08/2010 00:52:46
Originally by: Menkaure
This seems relevant to the way this discussion is going.
I guess nobody told the guy that he's not supposed to take a gun to work.
Oh wait.
Since the shooter was black, and chances are not a 911 truther, member of any militia, or someone who might have at one point in his life wondered if the Civil War was NOT all about slavery, the media will bury this deep in a few days.
And by this time, in the US, every time this happens, it's always the same thing:
Shooter seems "out of it" while killing people
Shooter kills himself when done
Pattern.
And this is why more people than anyone who is afraid of the idea would want to know, are carrying guns on them.
Now the statists amongst us will think "but....but.... can't they be caught? "
No. The dogs they use to sniff peoples asses for bombs are different from "gun dogs" that are used to check passengers going onto cruise ships. And those naked body scanners are turning out to be recording devices too. Even Big Sis admitted it, and they are not as safe as the people (who sell them) say they are.
So people exercising their right to defend themselves won't be caught to easily. Sorry statists.
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