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Should Incarna be a free expansion?

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Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.07.31 21:04:00 - [61] Originally by: Stitcher Edited by: Stitcher on 31/07/2010 20:15:57 Incarna will be part of EVE. All of EVE is included in the subscription cost. Just because it'll be optional changes nothing. Wormholes, exploration, missions, PvP, mining, trading, nullsec, highsec, piracy, PI.... pretty much everything in the game is "optional" anyway. I'm sure a lot of effort went into designing and creating Gallente ships for instance, but they're still optional - I sure as hell don't fly them. I don't understand this whole "Incarna is taking money and developers out of EVE". it's PART of EVE - it will, once complete, be a feature of the game. Therefore, all of the resources being used to develop Incarna are ipso facto being used to develop EVE Online. yet we'll have to pay for Dust? Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Stitcher Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2010.07.31 21:58:00 - [62] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Stitcher Edited by: Stitcher on 31/07/2010 20:15:57 Incarna will be part of EVE. All of EVE is included in the subscription cost. Just because it'll be optional changes nothing. Wormholes, exploration, missions, PvP, mining, trading, nullsec, highsec, piracy, PI.... pretty much everything in the game is "optional" anyway. I'm sure a lot of effort went into designing and creating Gallente ships for instance, but they're still optional - I sure as hell don't fly them. I don't understand this whole "Incarna is taking money and developers out of EVE". it's PART of EVE - it will, once complete, be a feature of the game. Therefore, all of the resources being used to develop Incarna are ipso facto being used to develop EVE Online. yet we'll have to pay for Dust? well for starters, DUST is going to be on console, not on PC. - - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
Syn Callibri Minmatar Blacklight Incorporated	Posted - 2010.07.31 22:00:00 - [63] Originally by: Malcanis Since CCP have confirmed that it is completely optional - ie: unnecessary - to spaceships EVE, should Incarna be treated as effectively a new game (or EVE 2 if you like) and be an optional, paid expansion? As we have seen confirmed by CCP themselves, the costs of Incarna are very considerable. And it is also widely assumed that it will attract a very large number of new players. Would a E/$ 10-20 pricetag be reasonable? This would provide a lot of revenue to support the future iterations of Incarna that will surely be required to make it a success. Alternatively, those who have no interest in the ambulation game can decline to buy it, and rest assured that it is bringing in additional resources to pay for its own maintenance rather than at the expense of "spaceships EVE". ...seriously? Syn Callibri Ilharess of the Scorpion Tribe
Valoric Liao Ethos Mining and Logistics	Posted - 2010.07.31 22:28:00 - [64] Originally by: Ran Khanon I for one am really looking forward to Incarna Ran, I hearby formally revoke your access to C&P. We'll miss you. Maybe. Eve For Fun! - July 21st: I'm getting my ass handed to me. Handily.
Antihrist Pripravnik 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.08.01 11:03:00 - [65] Originally by: Ran Khanon Edited by: Ran Khanon on 31/07/2010 13:46:16 Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik Why charge for an expansion that half of the community doesn't even like or want? (not that I'm in that bandwagon) & similar responses: Please speak for yourself. I for one am really looking forward to Incarna as it has the potential to add a whole new layer of immersion to EVE, not to mention more alternative gameplay options, more realism and more variety in general. edit: oops, quoted wrong guy. Fixed! Quoted the wrong guy again, or failed reading?
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.08.01 11:05:00 - [66] Originally by: Stitcher Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Stitcher Edited by: Stitcher on 31/07/2010 20:15:57 Incarna will be part of EVE. All of EVE is included in the subscription cost. Just because it'll be optional changes nothing. Wormholes, exploration, missions, PvP, mining, trading, nullsec, highsec, piracy, PI.... pretty much everything in the game is "optional" anyway. I'm sure a lot of effort went into designing and creating Gallente ships for instance, but they're still optional - I sure as hell don't fly them. I don't understand this whole "Incarna is taking money and developers out of EVE". it's PART of EVE - it will, once complete, be a feature of the game. Therefore, all of the resources being used to develop Incarna are ipso facto being used to develop EVE Online. yet we'll have to pay for Dust? well for starters, DUST is going to be on console, not on PC. Wont Dust be part of EVE? it's set in the EVE universe and, unlike Incarna, you can actually affect what happens in rest of the EVE universe from Dust. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Mashie Saldana BFG Tech	Posted - 2010.08.01 12:27:00 - [67] Originally by: Malcanis Wont Dust be part of EVE? it's set in the EVE universe and, unlike Incarna, you can actually affect what happens in rest of the EVE universe from Dust. Incarna will be part of the EVE client, Dust however isn't. Stop being silly.
Shawna Gray Gallente	Posted - 2010.08.01 12:51:00 - [68] Originally by: Malcanis Since CCP have confirmed that it is completely optional - ie: unnecessary - to spaceships EVE. Lots of things are completely optional for "myEVE". Why care? The incarna whining is rather boring.
Pesky LaRue Minmatar The Magnificent Bastards	Posted - 2010.08.01 14:35:00 - [69] Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 01/08/2010 14:36:31 Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 01/08/2010 14:35:47 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Stitcher well for starters, DUST is going to be on console, not on PC. Wont Dust be part of EVE? it's set in the EVE universe and, unlike Incarna, you can actually affect what happens in rest of the EVE universe from Dust. Either the real Malcanis has sold his account, or you're being deliberatly obtuse. Dust is NOT part of what you're calling "EvE", and you know it. It's an FPS played on a console, not our spaceship game. There are ties to EvE, sure, but that doesn't mean it's PART of EvE (and you know it). .
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.01 14:39:00 - [70] Yes, at this point I wouldn't mind paying for Incarna. àor, more accurately, I wouldn't mind paying for the EVE developers getting back to the core EVE stuff and then get Incarna on top of the urgent fixes the game currently needs. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki

Serpent Qor	Posted - 2010.08.01 15:28:00 - [71] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Serpent Qor To everyone being a little girl about the new Incarna expansion: Send me your stuff. Incarna is the best thing that will happen to EVE. Does that mean you'd be willing to pay for it? How much? What if we had to pay for it, but we could buy Incarna with PLEX? All expansions are free. CCP has been touting this since their inception. End of argument.
Serpent Qor	Posted - 2010.08.01 15:37:00 - [72] Edited by: Serpent Qor on 01/08/2010 15:38:04 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Stitcher Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Stitcher Edited by: Stitcher on 31/07/2010 20:15:57 Incarna will be part of EVE. All of EVE is included in the subscription cost. Just because it'll be optional changes nothing. Wormholes, exploration, missions, PvP, mining, trading, nullsec, highsec, piracy, PI.... pretty much everything in the game is "optional" anyway. I'm sure a lot of effort went into designing and creating Gallente ships for instance, but they're still optional - I sure as hell don't fly them. I don't understand this whole "Incarna is taking money and developers out of EVE". it's PART of EVE - it will, once complete, be a feature of the game. Therefore, all of the resources being used to develop Incarna are ipso facto being used to develop EVE Online. yet we'll have to pay for Dust? well for starters, DUST is going to be on console, not on PC. Wont Dust be part of EVE? it's set in the EVE universe and, unlike Incarna, you can actually affect what happens in rest of the EVE universe from Dust. They are a company. They need money. Once they make some cash from the population increase and Dust (good way to increase funds) they can start hiring more people to make EVE what they want it to be. Look - CCP is trying to make money and they need more developers. They will remain stagnant unless they do something and do it big.
Serpent Qor	Posted - 2010.08.01 15:48:00 - [73] Originally by: Gladys Pank I will happily send you all my incarna stuff once its released. Oh wait, it's got no meaningful content. How can you say that? You don't even know what the hell they are doing.
ovenproofjet Caldari Therapy. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.08.01 15:56:00 - [74] Without actually knowing what features we'll be getting there is no point in debating this. If it's another half finished expansion like Dominion and Tyrannis then hell no will I be paying for it. However if it does end up have reasoned and well thought out uses beyond "oooh pretty" then I wouldn't mind paying a small fee for it or maybe even a slight increase in subscription say $15.99 instead of todays $15. However as has been said it would be much better if CCP would fix what they've got already, but we can (and have) ranted about that matter.
rootimus maximus Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.08.01 16:24:00 - [75] Originally by: CCP Adida Going on the title here "Should Incarna be Free?" Traditionally all EVE expansions are free. It is listed as one of the features of EVE Online. I don't see why this would change. Ghost training also used to be on that list of features. Then you arbitrarily called it an exploit and removed it.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.01 16:35:00 - [76] Originally by: rootimus maximus Ghost training also used to be on that list of features. No. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.08.01 16:41:00 - [77] Originally by: Serpent Qor Originally by: Gladys Pank I will happily send you all my incarna stuff once its released. Oh wait, it's got no meaningful content. How can you say that? You don't even know what the hell they are doing. That proves it's going to be awesome, right? Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
rootimus maximus Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.08.01 16:45:00 - [78] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: rootimus maximus Ghost training also used to be on that list of features. No. No? I don't get it.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.01 16:53:00 - [79] Originally by: rootimus maximus Originally by: Tippia Originally by: rootimus maximus Ghost training also used to be on that list of features. No. No? I don't get it. People have been claiming that it was "listed as a feature" ever since it was removed, but have never been able to produce that list. They've even claimed that it was "advertised as a selling point", and yet have never been able to produce said ads. I'd be very interested to see any proof of these claims, but none exists. It's just something people say. And no, being explained in a descriptive part of a game guide written by a third party is not proof that CCP saw it as intended gameplay, and it certainly does not count as "advertising it as a feature". ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
rootimus maximus Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.08.01 16:58:00 - [80] Originally by: Tippia People have been claiming that it was "listed as a feature" ever since it was removed, but have never been able to produce that list. At the time, it was linked in a number of posts. Days after this "exploit" was fixed, CCP had still failed to update the features page. Personally, I don't care either way about ghost training being removed. I never had occasion to use it. My point, though, is that being listed on the features page has proved to mean nothing in the past.

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.01 17:05:00 - [81] Edited by: Tippia on 01/08/2010 17:06:12 Originally by: rootimus maximus At the time, it was linked in a number of posts. Days after this "exploit" was fixed, CCP had still failed to update the features page. No, people only linked to the aforementioned game guide ù a guide (again, written by a third party, not CCP) that described how the game currently worked. It wasn't a features list. It wasn't an advertisement. It was in no way a statement of CCP's intentions with the functionality. By that logic, there are no exploits, cheats or hacks. Everything is "how the game currently works" and should therefore be left alone. And yes, when the game no longer worked that way, the game guide was updated to mirror how the game worked now. That only seems sensible ù no point in describing something that no longer works they way the description says. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
ceaon	Posted - 2010.08.01 17:17:00 - [82] i support the idea of charging for Incarna is a expansion that dont influence EvE mechanics on any way and Incarna game play dont influence EvE game play, Incarna is absolutely parallel whit EvE so should be a payed expansion or a separate game like dust is new eden could have 3 games incarna a social game dust a fps on ground game eve spaceship game when CCP asked for a vote got this
rootimus maximus Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.08.01 17:21:00 - [83] Maybe I'm wrong, then. I was new to Eve at the time, so maybe I made a mistake.
Catherine Griffin Amarr	Posted - 2010.08.01 17:49:00 - [84] Edited by: Catherine Griffin on 01/08/2010 17:51:27 Originally by: Jade Constantine Basically this topic is arguing that Incarna is not core eve online gameplay and its a bad choice by ccp to move developers that should be concentrating on the core game over to an optional add-on that your current player base are not wildly excited about. Well what's the "core game"? CCP has stated that EVE is a Sci-Fi sim. Planets and persons belong to that as much as spaceships. That the game didn't have it and the main activity of players subsequently didn't include these things - it doesn't mean it's not part of the core concept of the game, or what the designers envisioned. Incarna has been planned for years and honestly I wouldn't bet on it that the major part of the players won't like it. Originally by: ceaon new eden could have 3 games incarna a social game dust a fps on ground game eve spaceship game You forgot PI, a Sim City RTS game.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.08.01 18:07:00 - [85] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 01/08/2010 17:10:33 Originally by: rootimus maximus At the time, it was linked in a number of posts. Days after this "exploit" was fixed, CCP had still failed to update the features page. No, people only linked to the aforementioned game guide ù a guide (again, written by a third party, not CCP) that described how the game currently worked. It wasn't a features list. It wasn't an advertisement. It was in no way a statement of CCP's intentions with the functionality. By that logic, there are no exploits, cheats or hacks. Everything is "how the game currently works" and should therefore be left alone. And yes, when the game no longer worked that way, the game guide was updated to mirror how the game worked now. That only seems sensible ù no point in describing something that no longer works they way the description says. àand even if CCP edited the mythical features list, guess what? Web pages are cached and archived all over the place, yet no-one has been able to dig up that particular treasure. Oh you mean like for instance a post by CCP wrangler advising a player on how it worked? Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Ori Blake	Posted - 2010.08.01 18:16:00 - [86] Guess Malcanis missed my point. If we are going to play "Why should I pay for any expansion I don't care about?" It's going to suck because a lot of people don't care about 0.0 and will apply the same logic to that. This will just change the game to a paid expansion model and we all lose.
Serpent Qor	Posted - 2010.08.01 20:04:00 - [87] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Serpent Qor Originally by: Gladys Pank I will happily send you all my incarna stuff once its released. Oh wait, it's got no meaningful content. How can you say that? You don't even know what the hell they are doing. That proves it's going to be awesome, right? From what I've seen from Fanfest videos, it will be just what EVE needs.
Bodrul Caldari Polaris Rising The Spire Collective	Posted - 2010.08.01 20:25:00 - [88] with Dust and so on Eves version of FPS, how do they plan to attract new players on the consoles? you have activison, EA and so on who have been doing FPS for years doubt eve will even make a dent in the FPS market on consoles, enfact i will take wagers on its release :P ............ Researched BPO Lottery (Using Darkness+ Charibbas dice) ........
Usagi Tsukino Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.08.01 20:31:00 - [89] Originally by: Pesky LaRue Dust is NOT part of what you're calling "EvE", and you know it. It's an FPS played on a console, not our spaceship game. There are ties to EvE, sure, but that doesn't mean it's PART of EvE (and you know it). As well, you don't have to buy EVE to play DUST. So unless you choose to, you're not being double-dipped. Personally I think they should charge $1 to anyone who purchases a capital, and $5 to anyone who purchases a super-capital. I do not use them, and they hamper my style of game play. I have no intention of ever using them, therefor the developer time used to make them, balance them, then rebalance them was all wasted and I (and I assume everyone else who does not fly capitals - and I know this is a correct assumption because I live in 0.0 and therefor my opinion > everyone elses) demand that anyone who does not or is not willing to play EVE the way I think it should be played, be punished with a monetary fine. It sickens me to think they used MY MONEY on something that I don't use. [center]___
Serpent Qor	Posted - 2010.08.01 23:50:00 - [90] Originally by: Usagi Tsukino Originally by: Pesky LaRue Dust is NOT part of what you're calling "EvE", and you know it. It's an FPS played on a console, not our spaceship game. There are ties to EvE, sure, but that doesn't mean it's PART of EvE (and you know it). As well, you don't have to buy EVE to play DUST. So unless you choose to, you're not being double-dipped. Personally I think they should charge $1 to anyone who purchases a capital, and $5 to anyone who purchases a super-capital. I do not use them, and they hamper my style of game play. I have no intention of ever using them, therefor the developer time used to make them, balance them, then rebalance them was all wasted and I (and I assume everyone else who does not fly capitals - and I know this is a correct assumption because I live in 0.0 and therefor my opinion > everyone elses) demand that anyone who does not or is not willing to play EVE the way I think it should be played, be punished with a monetary fine. It sickens me to think they used MY MONEY on something that I don't use. This all day long.



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