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Serbitar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.02 15:12:00 -
[1]
I just came back to the game after not playing for ages, I have a little more than 15mil skill points and for some stupid reason i trained command ships to 5 but i have no battleship skills.
Should i bother making use of this skill and flying a command ship or should i just write off the 2mil skill points and work on some battleship skills.
I dont have the isk to buy and fit a command ship atm, so i will probably run missions in a harbie or a drake or something for a while anyway.
Sugestions please?
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Sandrestal
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Posted - 2010.08.02 15:23:00 -
[2]
If you are flying in fleets you'll be much loved if you have all the links. If you are only going to run missions then get your BS skills as they will be more efficient for lvl 4 missions. Meanwhile a Drake will be fine.
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Trojan
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Posted - 2010.08.02 15:23:00 -
[3]
Oh yeah and the only cruser skill i have at 5 is Amarr so it would have to be an Abso unless training cruisers 5 in another race would be better than battleship 4 large guns (same kinda time)
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Brynja McNab
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Posted - 2010.08.02 15:36:00 -
[4]
You can run level 4's in a Sliepnir or a Nighthawk with some decent efficiency, I've not done it myself though.
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adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
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Posted - 2010.08.02 15:58:00 -
[5]
Get a t3 instead for pve, or a drake or a BS.
field command ships have sucked since 2006 for pvp...
fleet command still have some use but in heavy competition with t3 command configs, but they can fit in come cases all high's with ganglinks or 3 links with nastu buffers for on field while t3 max out at 3-4 usually with next to no tank, t3 can be bubble immune and unprobable so depends what you want.
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Corelich
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Posted - 2010.08.02 16:01:00 -
[6]
For the "buzz kill" i prefer my sleipnir instead of my vargur just because of the high amount of small ships in this mission. I dont know if its faster, but doing it with a battleship isnt fun at all.
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Jazzmyn
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.08.02 16:15:00 -
[7]
I've been using a Nighthawk for over 2 years, I prefer it to any battleships, recently upgraded to a T3 and fond that equally as fun to fly. The reason I prefer these over battleships because i dont care about isk/hr ratios because money isnt an issue, but fun is!!!!
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Diomidis
Amarr
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.02 16:22:00 -
[8]
If you have skills for a Nighthawk, you are pretty good to go.
A T2 HML Nighthawk with T2 ammo packs the dps @ range + tank combo to breeze through most missions and it's a quite popular null-sec complex runner too.
Almost all other CSs are inefficient for most missions, as you lack in mobility and range compared to T3s and popular mission running BSs. You can certainly mission run in them - quite easily with proper skills actually, but having to slow-boat around in order to apply full DPS gimps your mission completion times a lot. Yes, most of them can field a beast of a tank if fitted properly, but that's only half the story.
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Serbitar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.02 16:30:00 -
[9]
I only have amarr cruiser skill at 5 so it would be 1mil skill points to get cal cruiser to 5 for the nighthawk, or would i be better pumping them skill points/training time into battleship/large guns?
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
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Posted - 2010.08.02 17:13:00 -
[10]
NH is a fine mission runner, coming in somewhere between a vanilla Raven and a CNR for completion times. It's ideal for Kin-weak rats but can hold its own across the board.
Sleipnir can run Angel missions quite well. Recent changes to projectiles mean it can also diversify from there.
The Astarte is awful for missions. Absolution isn't a whole lot better and really doesn't offer that much above and beyond a Harbinger (although I could see it as workable if you have CS 5).
For pure Amarr, just train for a BS and run L3s in a Harbi in the meantime. I'd aim for a T2 pulse Abaddon first, likely going through an Apocalypse on the way.
For BSs in general, the Dominix and the Raven are still the top (T1, non-faction) mission runners across the board.
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Wayay Bonnylad
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Posted - 2010.08.02 17:33:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Zhilia Mann
For BSs in general, the Dominix and the Raven are still the top (T1, non-faction) mission runners across the board.
Ahem ... you appear to have overlooked the Maelstrom, probably the top dog T1 (non faction) mission runner there is, but that's a different thread.
As to running Lvl 4s in CS ... yes, it can be done. It is not quite as efficient as doing missions in a properly fitted battleship, but it can be safer and more fun. Whizzing around the battlefield in a Sleipnir dishing out death and mayhem all around you is quite good fun. Doing it in a Loki is even more fun, being faster and more nimble and having almost as much DPS.
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Diomidis
Amarr
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.02 18:59:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Serbitar
I only have amarr cruiser skill at 5 so it would be 1mil skill points to get cal cruiser to 5 for the nighthawk, or would i be better pumping them skill points/training time into battleship/large guns?
Depends on where you are missioning or what kind of PVE is in your mind.
The most versatile PvE boats are still Caldari: Golem, CNR, Tengu and Nighthawk are all pretty impressive vs. rats. T3s are in general pretty easy to get into and pimp out for lvl 4s.
Amarr battleships are not impressive in lvl 4s imho, unless you are fighting against EM weak opponents. Laser dmg type limitations make the NH a match vs. an abaddon against most pirate factions, with way almost no "tracking" issues and better cap performance.
Amarr CSs are great for PvP (especially a maxed Damnation in BS blobs) but lvl 4 running times will be slow. The same goes with the Legion which seems limited compared to a Tengu: less range and since it armor tanks, less available lows for dmg mods.
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Frozean
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Posted - 2010.08.02 20:50:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Frozean on 02/08/2010 20:50:47
I feel ashamed that someone put my raven at the same level of the dominix.
Their mission completion abilities and isk/earning are so different its not even funny.
If you go to help channel, and state your caldari isk/hour, most gallente will go "DAM you are lying" or "i can make sandwitches while using the dominix" while most caldari will go "i can do better then that".
The gap between those two ships are so large its not funny at all. Its like comparing a kestrel with a cerberus.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.02 21:05:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Frozean
I feel ashamed that someone put my raven at the same level of the dominix.
Their mission completion abilities and isk/earning are so different its not even funny.
If you go to help channel, and state your caldari isk/hour, most gallente will go "DAM you are lying" or "i can make sandwitches while using the dominix" while most caldari will go "i can do better then that".
This is because people insist on flying the Domi AFK, not due to a lack of performance in the platform. The two are pretty much equal in terms of nukability ù people just don't equip them for the same purposes.
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Serbitar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.02 21:19:00 -
[15]
So for level 4's my best bet is to pretend i have no skills and train up for raven?
I have done most of my mission running so far in a drake so if thats the best option then i am ok with that.
Thanks for the info.
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Maihes Jita
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Posted - 2010.08.02 21:44:00 -
[16]
My small corp and myself actually use pretty much exclusively Command Ships for WHole C3 and we often take them into lvl 4's just because they are more enjoyable. 2 of us use Absolution (Amarr) 1 swaps between Damnation and Absolution depending on what we are doing. Then we also have a Nighthawk and an Astarte pilot. Astarte pilot is the only one that has a T3 that he brings along, but we tend to just stick with the Command Ships.
Only time we pull out our BS's is when we do C4's |
Anfauglith
Retired Soldier Ltd.
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Posted - 2010.08.02 22:50:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Serbitar
So for level 4's my best bet is to pretend i have no skills and train up for raven?
I have done most of my mission running so far in a drake so if thats the best option then i am ok with that.
Thanks for the info.
If you are runnning a drake now I'd just upgrade it to Nighthawk once you are done. Actually prefer it over the battleships. Torp-Golem might be a bit faster, but also cost vs...you get the idea.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.08.03 00:15:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 03/08/2010 00:17:38
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 03/08/2010 00:16:21
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Frozean
I feel ashamed that someone put my raven at the same level of the dominix.
Their mission completion abilities and isk/earning are so different its not even funny.
If you go to help channel, and state your caldari isk/hour, most gallente will go "DAM you are lying" or "i can make sandwitches while using the dominix" while most caldari will go "i can do better then that".
This is because people insist on flying the Domi AFK, not due to a lack of performance in the platform. The two are pretty much equal in terms of nukability ù people just don't equip them for the same purposes.
I'm gonna go with Tippia here. It's been a while since I regularly missioned in a gank sentry domi, but IIRC they were roughly equivalent in efficiency until I faction fit them. Then the Raven really took off while the Domi didn't. Also: the Raven has a better tank... and the CNR is (IMO) just flat better than the Navy Domi/Rattlesnake.
-Liang
Ed: And to the OP: I'd buy a Nighthawk and then train for a CNR or Mach, depending on where your skills lie.
Ed:
Quote:
If you are runnning a drake now I'd just upgrade it to Nighthawk once you are done. Actually prefer it over the battleships. Torp-Golem might be a bit faster, but also cost vs...you get the idea.
It's not "a bit" faster. It's quite a lot faster... so is a CNR. And maybe a Raven too - but I'd have to look at that to be sure.
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Riho
Gallente
Magnificent Beavers
The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2010.08.03 07:34:00 -
[19]
I have used command ships in pve for a very long time.
i have a rail fit astarte (my favorite ship) for serp/gurista missions
i have a arty fit sleipnir for angels
i have a beam abso for sansha/blood missions
allso have used nightmare, raven, domi, mega for missions.
compared to the bs.. i like the CS more. tho killing speed might be bit lower... travel times are faster. never needed faction mods... with an afterburner you can speed tank most stuff.
best combo i found tho was a nightmare + abso(on a maxed out CS pilot alt). use the BS to melt big stuff and CS for smaller stuff. i hardly even had to use a booster on NM.. stuff died too fast
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CAPSLOCKBROKE
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.03 14:20:00 -
[20]
Nighthawk is a pretty solid PvE ship, though its best strength is its massive tank not its dps. This makes it more suited to "harder" PvE like plexes and WH's rather than lvl 4s where a high dps battleship would beat it in ISK/HOUR.
Slep is an awesome PvE and PvP ship.
The rest are mediocre imo except for there intended purpose of Fleet Boosting, in which case they are amazing.
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CAPSLOCK, BECAUSE SOMETIMES REGULAR FONT JUST, ISN'T, GOOD ENOUGH. |
Dzil
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.03 16:39:00 -
[21]
Brosef!
Yea, love my sleipner for l4s/ratting/anomalies. Not needing cap for guns and a 37.5% bonus on shield boosts gives you a lot of room for active tanking, and an AB currently puts my BC class ship up to 480 m/s, mitigating a lot of torp damage.
Don't worry if you don't have the skills for a gang link mod, just toss something like a drone extender into your eighth high.
Retired from corp sales. Time to spend some of this on pretty explosions :) |
Pookoko
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Posted - 2010.08.04 00:58:00 -
[22]
I used to do L4s in BS - Domi, Navy Mega, Maelstrom, Abaddon, but once I got into Command Ship I've been using them for L4s almost exclusively too. I can confirm with the guy above that rail fit Astarte is very good against Serpentis, and can do Angel missions in blaster fit ok too (but Sleipnir for Angels is also fun). You will get more gank out of BS for sure, but when you do a lot of missions it's good to have other ships available that will offer you a change of pace. I've never flown Nighthawk as I can only fly Gallente/Amarr/Minmatar commandships, but from what I can tell Nighthawk should be more than fine for C3 WH anomalies too judging by my experience with them in Sleipnir (sufficient tank for WH anomalies/low-sec PLEX + more DPS than Loki actually).
No matter what you decide to do though, one thing I can say for certain is that you'll never regret having trained BC V once you venture into PvP
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
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Posted - 2010.08.04 14:29:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Pookoko
I can confirm with the guy above that rail fit Astarte is very good against Serpentis
I haven't tried this as I just can't find a fit I'm happy with. Basically anything I can come up with in EFT is outperformed by a NH and/or Sleip (to say nothing of a gank fit sentry Domi). What am I missing here?
Originally by: Pookoko
No matter what you decide to do though, one thing I can say for certain is that you'll never regret having trained BC V once you venture into PvP
This. Oh so much this. CS 5 is more niche but also nothing to really regret.
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Serbitar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.04 18:06:00 -
[24]
Thanks for all the imput, i guess i will just try and build enough isk to try out a few options and see what i like best.
I was thinking of crosstraining Gal because of armour tanking and drones are good for Amarr too?
Then that would open domi?
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
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Posted - 2010.08.04 18:32:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Serbitar
Thanks for all the imput, i guess i will just try and build enough isk to try out a few options and see what i like best.
I was thinking of crosstraining Gal because of armour tanking and drones are good for Amarr too?
Then that would open domi?
If you want to go with a Domi, make sure you can field pretty much max skilled sentry drones. But yeah, all those skills would help Amarr ships.
Shorter term though (based on your other post in the Skills forum) you might want to just train straight for a Nighthawk or a Sleipnir. You'd have to get shield tanking skills up to par for either, but you'd be able to hop in a near-top tier L4 runner in either case and wouldn't have to bother with ship skills.
But it's up to you. I love my Domis dearly but depending on my mood/state of sobriety the NH can still be a better option. For PvE.
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Fistme
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Posted - 2010.08.04 22:05:00 -
[26]
Short Answer: Yes
Battleships do missions much better/fast for cheaper and t3 are more capable than a CS with a smaller sig and faster align/speed.
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Pookoko
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Posted - 2010.08.05 00:29:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Zhilia Mann
Originally by: Pookoko
I can confirm with the guy above that rail fit Astarte is very good against Serpentis
I haven't tried this as I just can't find a fit I'm happy with. Basically anything I can come up with in EFT is outperformed by a NH and/or Sleip (to say nothing of a gank fit sentry Domi). What am I missing here?
No you're right. There is about 100 DPS difference between Sleipnir vs. Rail Astarte in Sleipnir's favour, only saving grace for Astarte being that it can hit at longer ranges with spike ammo (but Sleipnir can close in faster+pops frigs better at mid-range anyhow). Maybe 'very good' wasn't correct assessment, but more like Rail Astarte is naturally suited for Serpentis due to natural resist+range+good damage type against them (like all Gallente T2). I think quite a few Serpentis missions start from range & they do have BS that like to stay in range, but raw DPS and zipping around popping stuff in Sleipnir would be better for. Reason for my original comment was probably that my Sleipnir is currently configured for wormholes and located rather far away from my mission hub so I've been flying Astarte lately. :p
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