| Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Denidil
Gallente
Rape Pillage and Burn
   |
Posted - 2010.08.06 22:57:00 -
[1]
[I'm not sure if this has been proposed before, if it has i couldn't find it]
Reduce standard belt ores volumes by 80% - this still makes them viable for lowbies mining in frigate or their first mining barge.
the volume removed from them should be moved into belts that must be scanned down.
gravimetric site belts in every system.
the belt must be depleted before respawn (aka all the ores, not just the higher value ones).
essentially all the upgraded 0.0 system grav sites, except appropriate for highsec.
these belts would have tougher rats than the normal ones.
ice belts (in all systems) would all be scan down and move once every few hours (random 3-6 hours)
exhumers and mining barges would have +20 cpu, +1 PG and +1 high slot
the orca and the rorqual should probably get that too.
|
Niyrah
|
Posted - 2010.08.06 23:54:00 -
[2]
I like your first idea with a few tweaks better than this one. I would humbly ask you to modify it to include BS rats in low sec, cruisers in 0.5 - 0.8, and frigs in 0.9 - 1.0....also take the asteroids out of 0.9 - 10.0 and replace them with tiny tiny roids for the noob frig miners.
Macros would adapt in a scannable roid field world. But good train of thought here
|
Denidil
Rape Pillage and Burn
|
Posted - 2010.08.07 01:18:00 -
[3]
actually my two proposals in concert would work better. and your modification steals too much of lowsec's thunder.
|
Niyrah
|
Posted - 2010.08.07 02:11:00 -
[4]
tbh, lowsec doesn't really have thunder...that's kind of the problem which CSM is working to solve. They are even writing a proposal to CCP on how they would improve low sec....most systems are completely empty. No fun.
|
Intar Medris
Amarr
evil kitty industries
Evil Kitty Federation
|
Posted - 2010.08.07 03:45:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Intar Medris on 07/08/2010 03:45:32
Why is that everyone seems to want to punish the miners that actually put an effort into mining. Every solution like this to attack macros only punishes the miners that don't. All CCP needs to do is flag accounts active for superhuman lengths of time. And if someone is caught macroing CCP should 0 SP their ass and delete all their ingame assets first offense. On the second offense a loss of 30 days game time, and third permaban. Stiffen the penalty for macroing and soon enough macroers will just about cease to exist.We all know their is no way possible that a player could sit there damn near 23 hours a day and not be a macro.
Flame me I dare you. |
Denidil
Gallente
Rape Pillage and Burn
|
Posted - 2010.08.07 04:49:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Intar Medris
Edited by: Intar Medris on 07/08/2010 03:45:32
Why is that everyone seems to want to punish the miners that actually put an effort into mining. Every solution like this to attack macros only punishes the miners that don't.
because you haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about. this doesn't punish miners one little bit, it makes them spend a few minutes probing down the belt just like those of us that mine in 0.0 do already.
this only "punishes" those people to lazy to take 3 minutes to probe down an easy-to-detect grav site.
since you seem to think otherwise you surely are capable of backing that assertion up. so how does making you spend a few minutes probing punish you? it makes it much more difficult for macros.
|
Intar Medris
Amarr
evil kitty industries
Evil Kitty Federation
|
Posted - 2010.08.07 05:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Denidil
Originally by: Intar Medris
Edited by: Intar Medris on 07/08/2010 03:45:32
Why is that everyone seems to want to punish the miners that actually put an effort into mining. Every solution like this to attack macros only punishes the miners that don't.
because you haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about. this doesn't punish miners one little bit, it makes them spend a few minutes probing down the belt just like those of us that mine in 0.0 do already.
this only "punishes" those people to lazy to take 3 minutes to probe down an easy-to-detect grav site.
since you seem to think otherwise you surely are capable of backing that assertion up. so how does making you spend a few minutes probing punish you? it makes it much more difficult for macros.
This would just force the macroer to actually play the game long enough to probe down the sites. Then all they have to do is BM the site. Macros win again.
Flame me I dare you. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.08.07 08:32:00 -
[8]
The basic idea isn't bad but there are problems with implementing it.
1) Quote:
Reduce standard belt ores volumes by 80% - this still makes them viable for lowbies mining in frigate or their first mining barge.
Not really, the asteroids would disappear in a very short time after DT and the newbies would have nothing to mine.
2) why only in high sec? If you do that you should do it in all systems.
3) Quote:
ice belts (in all systems) would all be scan down and move once every few hours (random 3-6 hours)
We currently don't have moving belts because redrawing and reselecting a new locations for every asteroid in every belt (ore even 80% of the high sec belts) every few hours will use a lot of the server power.
If the sserver was to use several pre-definite positions for the belts and cycle between them in a few days/weeks dedicate miners would have mapped them all and cycle between them till they find the set in use.
|
Guilliman R
Northstar Cabal
R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2010.08.07 10:30:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Guilliman R on 07/08/2010 10:30:14
Macros cant work with 3d space camera moving and probe moving/adjusting. They will need a real person to probe belts 24/7. It's not the same as scanning the screen looking for words, actually physically moving objects (probes) trough 3d space isn't something 99% of the macros in the world can do. They would need very high advanced AI to do so, and that would cost the RMT's a ****ton of money. Proof me wrong if I am.
There for I support this.
Newbies should just probe like everyone else then, or do something else.
___
Space for Rent, free beer for signature, preferably with colours! (no pink) |
Bhattran
|
Posted - 2010.08.07 10:57:00 -
[10]
No.
You force newbies, especially the clueless to probe out belts as all the static ones will be ate by macros and other lazy a@$ punks in retrievers/covetors/hulks in newbie starter systems. Just because you say the little static ore will remain for newbies doesn't make it so, try playing the game more.
You basically destroy the usefulness of GSC, setting up strings of them in belts for miners to mine into as they move along. That is a basic tactic of players on their own, those who don't have an orca, etc.
Forcing the roids to be depleted is another tactic of play how I want you to, bad idea. People may well move on to other in system sites, or other systems over seeing their profit per hour drop to 1/2 or less mining the crap ore. OR you make it so only those in select time zones or no job/life can mine the 'good' ore and the crap is left for everyone else.
You make the rats tougher, so now the newer players and possibly regular mining barges can't cut it out there, a retriever has crap slots, covetor isn't much better, who knows about a mining cruiser or frigate cause all the static ore was ate by previous players.
-------------------------------------------------------
5 minute forum time delay is a crime against humanity. |
|
|
Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2010.08.07 12:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Bhattran
No.
You force newbies, especially the clueless to probe out belts as all the static ones will be ate by macros and other lazy a@$ punks in retrievers/covetors/hulks in newbie starter systems. Just because you say the little static ore will remain for newbies doesn't make it so, try playing the game more.
You basically destroy the usefulness of GSC, setting up strings of them in belts for miners to mine into as they move along. That is a basic tactic of players on their own, those who don't have an orca, etc.
Forcing the roids to be depleted is another tactic of play how I want you to, bad idea. People may well move on to other in system sites, or other systems over seeing their profit per hour drop to 1/2 or less mining the crap ore. OR you make it so only those in select time zones or no job/life can mine the 'good' ore and the crap is left for everyone else.
You make the rats tougher, so now the newer players and possibly regular mining barges can't cut it out there, a retriever has crap slots, covetor isn't much better, who knows about a mining cruiser or frigate cause all the static ore was ate by previous players.
That's funny and here I was thinking this was a multiplayer game.
|
ihcn
|
Posted - 2010.08.07 16:34:00 -
[12]
Edited by: ihcn on 07/08/2010 16:34:11
I like this idea.
-Mining becomes a little more of a thinking game
-Macros won't be eliminated, but the people running them have to put more effort in, which makes it worth that much less
-More realistic
-Hisec and lowsec grav sites are currently useless
The only drawback I can see is that it takes a bit more learning in order to mine, but there's already a tutorial dedicated to scanning when players start the game.
|
Bhattran
|
Posted - 2010.08.07 19:16:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Guilliman R
Originally by: Bhattran
No.
You force newbies, especially the clueless to probe out belts as all the static ones will be ate by macros and other lazy a@$ punks in retrievers/covetors/hulks in newbie starter systems. Just because you say the little static ore will remain for newbies doesn't make it so, try playing the game more.
You basically destroy the usefulness of GSC, setting up strings of them in belts for miners to mine into as they move along. That is a basic tactic of players on their own, those who don't have an orca, etc.
Forcing the roids to be depleted is another tactic of play how I want you to, bad idea. People may well move on to other in system sites, or other systems over seeing their profit per hour drop to 1/2 or less mining the crap ore. OR you make it so only those in select time zones or no job/life can mine the 'good' ore and the crap is left for everyone else.
You make the rats tougher, so now the newer players and possibly regular mining barges can't cut it out there, a retriever has crap slots, covetor isn't much better, who knows about a mining cruiser or frigate cause all the static ore was ate by previous players.
That's funny and here I was thinking this was a multiplayer game.
What is funny is how people selectively pick out one thing in a lame attempt to disregard every other idea/point made, that or they really aren't capable of handling the act of reading comprehension so on seeing their trigger they respond.
-------------------------------------------------------
5 minute forum time delay is a crime against humanity. |
rootimus maximus
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2010.08.07 20:00:00 -
[14]
|
Mr LaForge
|
Posted - 2010.08.07 20:56:00 -
[15]
I support this on the condition that at least half of the belts can be scanned out with the D-scanner.
|
Denidil
Gallente
Rape Pillage and Burn
|
Posted - 2010.08.07 22:41:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Mr LaForge
I support this on the condition that at least half of the belts can be scanned out with the D-scanner.
that would defeat the purpose, macrominers would be able to macro that. make them easy to scan down with the probes but make them require probes. it doesn't take much to get ability to launch 4 probes.
|
wr3cks
Reliables Inc
Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2010.08.07 23:34:00 -
[17]
Not supported.
In particular, I think the fitting for hulks is extremely well-balanced. If you want to AFK while 3 battleships in nullsec wail on you, you're gonna have to pay for some deadspace loot. And you're going to need decent to good shield and cap skills. As it should be.
The real problem with the mineral market is macro miners. Lowbies mining in retrievers will never make jack until that's fixed (though they're never gonna be rich).
|
Sepheir Sepheron
Caldari
Legion..
|
Posted - 2010.08.08 00:13:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Denidil
actually my two proposals in concert would work better. and your modification steals too much of lowsec's thunder.
lowsec's thunder 
|
Denidil
Gallente
Rape Pillage and Burn
|
Posted - 2010.08.08 04:29:00 -
[19]
Originally by: wr3cks
Not supported.
In particular, I think the fitting for hulks is extremely well-balanced. If you want to AFK while 3 battleships in nullsec wail on you, you're gonna have to pay for some deadspace loot. And you're going to need decent to good shield and cap skills. As it should be.
The real problem with the mineral market is macro miners. Lowbies mining in retrievers will never make jack until that's fixed (though they're never gonna be rich).
the fitting changes are designed to allow the fitting of a probe launcher, the hulk doesn't need it's tank buffed, and that isn't in the proposal.
i do have a deadspace fitted hulk that can laugh at 3xBS all day long, so i know how to fit them.
some of the lesser-tanked mining barges and exhumers might need a slight tanking boost to deal with this, but only if they need it [T1 minin barges probably do.. the skiff/mackinaw might, the hulk should only get the CPU/PG/High slot for the probe launcher]
|
Denidil
Gallente
Rape Pillage and Burn
|
Posted - 2010.08.15 16:34:00 -
[20]
more comments pls.
|
|
|
Skitter Brightblade
|
Posted - 2010.08.16 20:04:00 -
[21]
I have to agree with Intar Medris.
I'm one of those miners that actually works at mining. I have on a rare occasion, spent 12 hours of my saturday, sitting at my comp mining. Never used a macro in my life, don't even know how to set one up or want to try.
When I get together with my corp mates for a mining op for a large amount of the more common minerals to build stuff with, I don't want the asteroid belts ****ed with. We mine 0.5 systems such as Hek and I don't want to see things change.
|
Stupid McStupidson
Gallente
Hoek Lyne and Sinker
|
Posted - 2010.08.17 18:39:00 -
[22]
Ehh. There's already a huge number of high sec belts that are wiped out hours after they re spawn. Lowering their yields would only make this worse. You'd be surprised at what macros are capable of nowadays. No, I don't use them, but I have looked at them.
Within a few months from in-game mechanic changes, they've written a way around them. It's analogous to counterfeiting currency. Plus, as stated before, the macroers would manually find 4-5 belts you describe, and then execute their macro. Just come back in an hour or three, and it's done.
I still favor the belt mechanic changes CCP mentioned a fanfest or three ago. It doesn't really do much to thwart macroers, but it would be a nice change. Each rock would have a variable and somewhat random amount of minerals, as opposed to asteroid type A having a fixed ratio of minerals. You would have to use your scanner to 'investigate' the rocks if you are cherry-picking for a certain mineral.
It also proposed that mining skills and equipment would effect the ratio and types yielded from mining. It wouldn't just be mass-consume all veld for 'n' amount of trit. Chribba would be safe though, as there likely would still be rocks named 'Veldspar'.
|
Valeriene
|
Posted - 2010.09.19 10:57:00 -
[23]
The reduction of the belts by 80% would put things back in par with the old days before the updates which as everyone knows was a total nightmare coming on to find practically every system in hi sec gone to macroers.
Best not to mess with the current amounts in the roids as it gives players who either solo mine or mine in small groups i.e 2 or 3 personal accounts the chance to upgrade to larger better equipped ships and what the hell is with everyone wanting to shut down hi sec leave us alone stop picking on us care bears you dont live in hi sec we do.
|
Intar Medris
Amarr
Production Industry Mining Profiteers
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2010.09.19 16:24:00 -
[24]
I can this about your idea. Having recently moved out to null and having to scan down hidden belts it is a *****. If this is a way to cause more people to stop mining it would be very effective. For one the scanning interface is incredibly broken. You have no grid to help judge where your probes are positioned. Also smaller things like ships are easier to scan out than a belt with rocks the size of a small moon. Till scanning is fixed all this idea would cause is frustration not make mining anymore interesting.
Flame me I dare you. |
Haiden Po
|
Posted - 2010.09.19 16:45:00 -
[25]
I like the idea, but...
Any changes to the mining dynamic without careful consideration can cause a large decrease in output. This would have an adverse effect on item cost and production.
08-1.0 rats=frigates
05-07 rats=destroyers and frigates
Retrievers and covetors should handle these ok. Hulks would have no problem with them. Players can tag team-1 guard and one miner.
Since every macro miner I've seen flees when they begin to take damage just infest more belts with a couple frigates more often. The macros may end up fleeing more than mining.
Too bad we couldn't warp disrupt (only warp disrupt) a macro miner without concord repercussions.
I think we can get by without the cpu, power grid, and high slot buffs.
But a plug in aimed at mining drone efficiency would be nice.
I also believe all ice belts located in sec 05 or above should be scanned down. |
MNagy
|
Posted - 2010.09.20 00:02:00 -
[26]
I don't think this would solve the macrominer issue.
1. They would just move to a static ice field.
2. They would just accept a mission and mine all the ore that is usually in that field cause sometimes that is a lot of ore.
3. Scan a site - bm it - send macro miners there - done for the day.
The other thing I see happening is the macro miners would still take out the regular fields - thus leaving nothing for the newbies.
-Just my thoughts.
|
Orange Lagomorph
|
Posted - 2010.09.20 05:38:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Orange Lagomorph on 20/09/2010 05:39:07
Originally by: ihcn
-More realistic
Pardon? More realistic?
You realize that in our solar system, the first asteroid was discovered in 1801? That's 209 years ago.
An interstellar civilization would be able to locate any asteroid belt(s) in a solar system with the equivalent of a toaster and tin foil. They tend to stay in the same place, too, so once found (which they could do with a telescope from 1850), they're found for good.
"Scanning down" asteroid belts is not realistic, at all. They're as visible as most planets, moreso in some cases.
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |