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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.07 21:35:00 - [1] Originally by: Vee Raa Darwin rules The final proof that EVE players aren't smarterà As for "onoz, CCP steals our moneys!!", if aystra wants to give the company hand-outs, who are we to say he can't? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.07 21:47:00 - [2] Originally by: DMF KingBob the Car-wreck can be used or disassambled or recycled or maybe repaired and not de-spawn from our world http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/1008/sehrdoof.png àso can the ship wreck. And your image caption is incorrect. It should read "If you're planning a large PLEX transport, you're an idiot ù there is zero need to transport them. Ever." ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.07 21:58:00 - [3] Originally by: Karlemgne That's about $1110 just given to CCP for free. Its actually quite underhanded and gross of ~~CCP~~ aystra Fix'd. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.07 22:10:00 - [4] Edited by: Tippia on 07/08/2010 22:10:46 Originally by: Hulkageddon Jackpot So basically this is what just happened: 1) person(s) A purchase service from CCP (playtime) for real money. 2) this playtime is destroyed in game 3) CCP has thus earned 1200 bucks, and does not need to give service/playtime in return. 4) CCP makes 100% return on these 1200 bucks. That reeks of fraud to me. No. What happened is this. Person(s) A purchase service from CCP (GTC) for real money. Person(s) A choose not to turn GTC into gametime, but into PLEX. Person(s) A choose not to torn PLEXes into gametime, but to place them in a situation where they can be destroyed. PLEXes get destroyed At no point has CCP defaulted on their promise. Would you still think it was fraud if step #3 has said "Perso(s) A right-click→trash the PLEXes" instead? Originally by: DMF KingBob ccp just made that the payed playtime is gone No. Aystra did. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.07 22:27:00 - [5] Originally by: DMF KingBob 6 years of game time payed but not serviced by ccp -.- Again, if that's what the player wants, why should CCP not honour that wish? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.07 22:42:00 - [6] Originally by: iudex Afaik the cargo expander reduces the base speed and therefore makes the ship entering warp even faster. No. Modifying your speed makes no difference in the time-to-warp. Only agility and mass changes have any effect on that. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.07 23:55:00 - [7] Edited by: Tippia on 07/08/2010 23:56:15 Originally by: Sky Marshal Your RL reference is wrong because CCP still have an obligation of service who remains as long as the Plex exist. What trips people up, I think, is that they don't realise that the player can choose to relieve CCP of this obligation at any point. Having a possbility of being lost in a fiery explosion is just a new way of doing that, and nothing that hasn't existed before. Yes, CCP have an obligation to provide you with game time if you choose to cash in on that service, but that's not the only available choice. Why should they have that obligation if you choose not to call them on this promise and instead delete it? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.08 01:33:00 - [8] Originally by: Dzajic PLEX is not "just like any other in game item". It is a very special thingy, bough by real world money, and ultimately only usable to purchase a real world service. The fac that it can be used for a number of different purposes kind of belies this assertion. Quote: There was never and could never be any other reason to PLEX change other than to have them destroyed in game, directly creating money for CCP. There is no change. PLEXes have always been destroyable. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.08 04:00:00 - [9] Originally by: Koyama Ise I'm surrounded by idiots. Morons who can't add one to two. Excuse me while I go kill myself. Stuff! Gimme!! Before it's too late!!! ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.08 15:33:00 - [10] Originally by: Apollo Gabriel What did the game gain from moving them? Really? what was added? the ability to exist in null without a jump clone? That was never really addressed. If the item could be bought with LP I would drop all objections. Now I think NO one would want them buyable with LP, which then argues they are not JUST normal items. The ability to make more ISK from them. It turned them into true trade goods, and with the reward that this brings comes the risk losing them all as wellà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.08 16:20:00 - [11] Edited by: Tippia on 08/08/2010 16:20:46 Originally by: Nye Jaran So CCP, the same company that says "FU players, everything new, nothing fixed for 18 months" just got a nice bit of free cash? No. Quote: A PLEX is a legally binding agreement between CCP and the owner of the PLEX (not purchaser) to credit the owner's account with 30 days of game time when a PLEX is redeemed. "If", not "when". Quote: By allowing them to be destroyed (thus made unredeemable), CCP is purposefully breaching that agreement By the same token, by choosing to destroy the item, the player is purposefully breaching that agreement, thereby absolving CCP of their duty to fork over 30 days of game time. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.08 17:52:00 - [12] Originally by: Nye Jaran Explain no, please? No, CCP has not said "FU players". No, CCP has not said "everything new nothing fixed for 18 months". No, CCP did not get a bit of free cash. Quote: CCP got the money but the owner of the PLEX did not get the game time. CCP got the money, and the owner got exactly what he wanted as well. Quote: No, actually. The owner is not willfully destroying the PLEX, nor is the owner (most likely) intending to destroy it. By allowing players to undock with PLEX, CCP has given implied consent. The owner wilfully chose to employ the PLEX in a way that has a chance of leading to its destruction. He chose not to force CCP to honour the "PLEX for time" agreement, but rather chose to treat it as a trade good and lost it like a trade good. At every step along the way, he could have chosen to hold them to this this alternative use; at every step along the way, he chose a different alternative, thus absolving CCP from the need to give him game time. CCP cannot be held responsible for those choices ù in fact, they upheld their end every time: they gave him the GTCs, just like he asked; they gave him the PLEXes, just like he asked; they transferred the PLEXes to his ship, just like he asked; they exposed him to the risk of having his ship blown up, just like he askedà Every single one of these choices were wilfully made by the player, not CCP. CCP did the only thing they could: they honoured the agreements between themselves and the player. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.08 17:59:00 - [13] Originally by: Sarina Berghil CCP designed for PLEXes to be destroyable, otherwise it wouldn't even be possible. CCP designed for PLEXes to be destroyable if the player holding the PLEX so chooses. Nothing is destroyed unless a player ù someone who has something to lose form said destruction ù chooses to make it happen. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.08 18:20:00 - [14] Originally by: Libin Herobi That's a very complicated way of saying "yes". It's actually a complicated way of saying "so what?" ù if players don't want to give CCP this mythical free money, they can simply choose not to. Hell, that choice is even the default, and they have to go out of their way to make something else happen. What I would like to know, as a point of comparison, is if I pay CCP for one month's subscription and then do absolutely nothing. No training, no ghost-datacorefarming, no active market orders, no S&Ià I don't even log in, and the only thing that happens on the account is that the character gets 30 days older. Have I then been defrauded by CCP, and should CCP be held accountable for letting this atrocity happen? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.09 01:45:00 - [15] I would still like to know this: If I pay CCP for one month's subscription and then do absolutely nothing. No training, no ghost-datacorefarming, no active market orders, no S&Ià I don't even log in, and the only thing that happens on the account is that the character gets 30 days older. Have I then been defrauded by CCP, and should CCP be held accountable for letting this atrocity happen? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.09 02:09:00 - [16] Oh, and btwà Originally by: Aerilis The gift card analogy looks good at first, but you missed a little tiny detail--Company X used to issue gift cards used to be indestructible and unstealable. No. Company X's gift cards were always destructible, with a 100% certainty of success. What they did was give us a new way of destroying them that wasn't 100% infallible. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.09 02:43:00 - [17] Edited by: Tippia on 09/08/2010 02:45:18 Originally by: King Aires Perfect, you entered into an agreement with CCP in this analogy where you paid for 30 days time, and they gave you access to the server for 30 days. This has nothing to do with CCP and their PLEX Scheme. But the effect is exactly the same: CCP has been given $15 "for free" and hasn't provided the service I bought. So why is this any different than if I choose not to redeem the 30 days of a PLEX? Quote: CCP is culpable 100% for any PLEX item lost How can they be that when 0% of the PLEXes are lost unless a player actively chooses to make it happen? Why are they culpable for my choices? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.09 10:34:00 - [18] Originally by: Ascendic Originally by: Aerilis The gift card analogy looks good at first, but you missed a little tiny detail--Company X used to issue gift cards used to be indestructible and unstealable. But then Company X decided to change it so that gift cards were destroyable and stealable, and surrounded their store with muggers. On top of that, they made a deal with the muggers to get half the stolen gift cards back, and let the muggers keep the other half. Nailed it. Not really, no. What he said was incorrect: as mentioned roughly a bazillion times now, the gift cards Company X used to issue were destructible all along. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.09 10:49:00 - [19] Originally by: Aerilis Ok fine. The previous "indestructible" gift cards could only be destroyed by right clicking on a special incinerator in the back of the store, and then clicking OK on a confirmation window. You can patch little holes like this forever, as all analogies are somewhat flawed, but I think I have all the important points covered. The important point is this: This introduces nothing new. Players still have to choose to "give CCP free money". CCP has just given you a destruction mechanism that isn't 100% certain to destroy the item, so if you choose to you can gamble that chance of non-destruction against the chance of earning more ISK. If you want to argue about the horridness of the change, gets your facts about that change right. àand, indeed, as far as the "free money to CCP makes CCP bad" line of reasoning, I still want to know why this particular set of choices is any worse or any different than if I choose not to log in for 30 days, even though I paid CCP for those days? Why isn't this bad behaviour on CCP's part? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.09 17:13:00 - [20] Originally by: King Aires What I said is the simple problem we have here, CCP unilaterally setting up a system of making items worthless. If by "unilaterally" you mean "only by player choice", then yes. Quote: There was no good reason to make PLEX destroyable other than profit. So why didn't you complain about it when PLEXes were introduced? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.09 17:52:00 - [21] Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o Trashing it yourself is completely different from if someone else trashes it or takes it away from you. If you deliberately and in full consciousness destroy your assets, you are free to do so. If you deliberately and in full conciousness put your assets into a ship that can be destroyed, you are free to do so. Quote: If someone else takes it from you without your consent, You consented when you undocked. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.09 21:20:00 - [22] Originally by: Galacticaboom Again CCP finds yet another way to screw over its players, GREAT JOB keep screwing us over and see how much more hostile the player base gets. The only one screwing people over is aystra, and I must say, the hostility seems to be minor. Quote: No sane person would do this, and pretty sure ccp is behind this. No one is THAT stupid to leave with that many plexs. You've never been to Jita, have youà Quote: I mean Seriously NONE of these dropped THATS TOTAL BS and everyone should be screaming about this. RNG is a harsh mistress. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.10 01:07:00 - [23] Edited by: Tippia on 10/08/2010 01:09:19 Originally by: King Aires Again on the support page, incorrect information. I know everyone here keeps saying do not be stupid, do not undock. But what about the new guy, the just starting out person who comes to eve and after reading the support pages, follows CCP's instructions loses his PLEX in his ship. That is just wrong. Yes, but someone who follows CCP's instruction won't lose his PLEX, since those instructions tell him he can't put the things in his cargo hold. So that inaccuracy solves itselfà Quote: The most wrong about this is, every PLEX that is lost, is $17.49 off CCP's liabilities. They directly profit from griefing activities. Again: how is this any different than if someone chooses to rclick→trash the PLEX? Or apply it and not log in? Or biomass the character? All of them are active player choices; all of them result in CCP not having to supply the service in question. Originally by: WhiteSavage Oh so CCP really makes no money off this at all says the guy posting in a thread where someone just lost over a grand of rl money or 6 years of eve subscriptions. No-one lost any money. Someone might have lost some subscription time, but from the sound of it, what they actually lost was some 22B ISKà Quote: Back up your scribble-scrabble of words and explain to us how this is NOT a profit making scheme. It relies 100% on player choice. Sure, it could still be considered a profit-making scheme, but then it's more akin to player charity towards CCP. As sinister plans go, that's a pretty lame one. Originally by: Xul Daethreen I don't see anyone denying that the changes show greed on CCP's part. I could probably go so far as to deny it, since I don't consider it much of a change. If anything, this lets players off the hook more than before if they make poor choices. That said, thoughà Quote: If people choose to give CCP more money, then I say let them. This. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.10 04:08:00 - [24] Originally by: Aerilis In the virtual world, you can very easily make your bear unstealable and indestructible. Which was the case before CCP changed it ànot really, no. People keep referring to this as a change, when it's really not. People were just given more choices on how they wanted to enact the existing mechanics. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.10 16:26:00 - [25] Originally by: WhiteSavage Originally by: Tippia People keep referring to this as a change, when it's really not. People were just given more choices on how they wanted to enact the existing mechanics. Actually now in-game items that are, in exchange for rl money, unlike everything else in this game... give you a preset amount of game-time can be destroyed to the gain of CCP and no-one else. What "now?" This has always been the case. Nothing has changed in that regard. Quote: ...Individual stupidity has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Individual stupidity has everything to do with the decision at hand because the fate of those PLEXes is 100% in the hands of the individual player, as it has always been since PLEXes were introduced. Quote: Why should PLEXES be in-game items in the first place? See? Now you're getting somewhere! If you want to argue about PLEXes, then you need to back to the day they were introduced. The events that spawned this thread are rather irrelevant to that question because nothing has happened that haven't been possible since day one ù it just happened in a particularly funny way. For the "Outrage"-side this entire thread boils down to this: PLEXes as they were first designed, should not have been brought into the game. That is the essence of their argument. You can call it wicked on CCP's part and rant on about drop rates and all of that, but the fact remains that nothing new has happened here ù PLEXes were destroyed, and some silly player absolved CCP from providing 30+ N days of game timeà but that has been possible from the very first day PLEXes were introduced. Hell, it was actually possible long before thatà but never mind. So it can't "suddenly" have become an issue now; it must have been an issue from the very start, so you need to go back and argue exactly that: PLEXes should perhaps not have been introduced at all. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.10 19:59:00 - [26] Originally by: WhiteSavage Interesting point, everyone here who is supporting CCP never logs onto EVE. For the last 2 days ive added you guys to my address book and either you don't play eve, or you are all alts of 1 person :P I sincerely don't believe any one of you could stand up to an actual conversation on the matter... Running out of arguments are we? Nice to see that you've finally brought your argument to its logical conclusion, though. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki

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