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CCP have surrendered to the BOTs,

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Sinister Mephisto	Posted - 2010.08.12 19:40:00 - [31] Used to have a guy in corp who would leave his alt on most of the time while he had a macro running for him. CCP still hasn't done anything.
JitaPriceChecker2	Posted - 2010.08.12 19:57:00 - [32] How do you know there are PI bots since they are impossible to identify by players ?
stoicfaux	Posted - 2010.08.12 20:07:00 - [33] Edited by: stoicfaux on 12/08/2010 20:06:56 Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 How do you know there are PI bots since they are impossible to identify by players ? It's assumed. Never underestimate the ability of a Russian programmer during winter with too much time on his hands, especially after all the hot Russian women have gone to the US as mail-order brides. This message brought to you by the "Stereotypes Hurt Because They Often Contain One Tiny Iota of Truth" foundation and the "One Man's Truth is Another Man's 'WTF! Are You High or Just That Stupid?'" foundation. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Cyprus Black Caldari 4 wing Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2010.08.12 20:12:00 - [34] Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel CCP IS working on the problem. That's right. CCP IS working on the problem just like they're working on all the other problems in Eve... Oh... right forgot. It'll be at least a year and a half to two years till then. Well I guess watch out botters! Your comeuppance will be here soon... in two years! http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2084/lolveur2.gif
Stick Cult Unspoken Autonomy.	Posted - 2010.08.12 20:17:00 - [35] Originally by: Cyprus Black Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel CCP IS working on the problem. That's right. CCP IS working on the problem just like they're working on all the other problems in Eve... Oh... right forgot. It'll be at least a year and a half to two years till then. Well I guess watch out botters! Your comeuppance will be here soon... in two years! >18 months joke Oh, you! Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
stoicfaux	Posted - 2010.08.12 20:22:00 - [36] Originally by: Stick Cult >18 months joke Oh, you! Oh dear lord, we've gone from 'the server being down is a bad thing' to the 'server will be up is a bad thing'... Eve players are complete ****s. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Stick Cult Unspoken Autonomy.	Posted - 2010.08.12 20:27:00 - [37] Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Stick Cult >18 months joke Oh, you! Oh dear lord, we've gone from 'the server being down is a bad thing' to the 'server will be up is a bad thing'... Eve players are complete **s. Does this have anything to do with my post that you quoted? Originally by:** CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
stoicfaux	Posted - 2010.08.12 20:33:00 - [38] Originally by: Stick Cult Does this have anything to do with my post that you quoted? Not aimed at you specifically. Just observing that you've observed that we've gone from complaining about sever down times (check your sig) due to being tuxforded and due to updates (server move and tyrannis) to essentially complaining about the server being up (but unchanged) for the next 18 months. CCP can't win. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Stick Cult Unspoken Autonomy.	Posted - 2010.08.12 20:35:00 - [39] Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Stick Cult Does this have anything to do with my post that you quoted? Not aimed at you specifically. Just observing that you've observed that we've gone from complaining about sever down times (check your sig) due to being tuxforded and due to updates (server move and tyrannis) to essentially complaining about the server being up (but unchanged) for the next 18 months. CCP can't win. So true... I love Tuxford! But really, if CCP cancels Dust and Incarna to fix everything, people will complain "why don't we have Incarna or Dust? " Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2010.08.12 21:40:00 - [40] Originally by: Stick Cult Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Stick Cult Does this have anything to do with my post that you quoted? Not aimed at you specifically. Just observing that you've observed that we've gone from complaining about sever down times (check your sig) due to being tuxforded and due to updates (server move and tyrannis) to essentially complaining about the server being up (but unchanged) for the next 18 months. CCP can't win. So true... I love Tuxford! But really, if CCP cancels Dust and Incarna to fix everything, people will complain "why don't we have Incarna or Dust? " OH GOD I LOVE TUXFORD TO I WANT TUXFORD TO HAVE MY BABIES OH GOD OH GOD I LOVE HIM SO MUCH AND CCP I LOVE CCP SO MUCH WHY IS EVERYONE SO MEAN TO CCP??? CCP CAN'T WIN EVERYONE IS SO MEAN I BETTER GET ON THE INTERNET AND WHITEKNIGHT THEM ASAP Or, you could discuss the topic of the thread. The fact that bots have and continue to crash the markets in eve and CCP has not made one iota of an effort to implement anything into the game to fix that ...but yeah "they are working on it" --- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved
Draco Carollis Amarr The Dead Canary Mining Corporation Talos Coalition	Posted - 2010.08.12 22:14:00 - [41] Edited by: Draco Carollis on 12/08/2010 22:14:11 Whoops, wrong button...
BOTS Mk1	Posted - 2010.08.12 22:18:00 - [42] Huh? Wha? Did someone call?
BOTS MkII	Posted - 2010.08.12 22:31:00 - [43] Edited by: BOTS MkII on 12/08/2010 22:31:42 Edited by: BOTS MkII on 12/08/2010 22:31:32 If CCP wishes to surrender to us, we would be quite happy to take control. Resistance is futile... EDIT: What is up with my portrait. I'm not that ugly...
Roemy Schneider Vanishing Point.	Posted - 2010.08.12 23:09:00 - [44] gl with that... the null-sec macro raven/drake petitions usually take >2 weeks before being answered. with 300mil/day for each of those, that's >4bil already. QEN mentions 20tril from isk faucets every month.... we don't blow stuff up anywhere near those dimensions. nor do enough rich bittervets quit - no matter how CCP encourages that. if it weren't for CCP's bi-annual interventions (nerfing demand or creating new items to sink money into), we'd be drowning in inflation... stable economy? not at all. also the reason why mining is doomed. unless trit were to become our shadow currency - which it can't be due to macro miners. hulkageddon is basically the only good thing happening to the economy - putting the gist back into logistics
Slade Trillgon Endless Possibilities Inc. Damu'Khonde	Posted - 2010.08.12 23:16:00 - [45] Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 12/08/2010 23:16:51 Originally by: Ryhss Originally by: Victor Fenris Kronsur are full of them. 80 % in locals are bots.. I reported 3 and will see if they get banned... It probably won't happen. I think CCP just bans a few here and there to make it look like they are banning bot/macros. But, even the bot/macros have to pay for their account, that's cash for CCP, so why the futhark would they ban them?! CCP creates and sells the BOTS Dun Dun Dun.... EDIT: I just remembered my first alliance's ticker was BOTS Slade :Signature Temporarily Disabled:
Bomberlocks Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2010.08.12 23:18:00 - [46] Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel Originally by: Miss AmarrPriceCheck Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel CCP deals with these guys on a regular basis. When reported, bots are monitored and eliminated in batches (follow the money, otherwise it's whack-a-mole). I'm not sure if you've noticed, but the amount of isk spamming has also drastically decreased. CCP IS working on the problem. While I'm not at liberty to talk about recent figures, I can assure you the process has been continued and the amount of accounts banned has kept increasing. There's a massive difference between banning some trial account that's spamming rookie help or jita local with isk-for-cash ads, and detecting/banning a mining/ratting/missioning bot. I think most of the bans in the statistics sometimes cited come from the trivial bans of brand new accounts spamming isk ads. It's well known that there are multiple bots out there right now that are entirely safe to use, and CCP should make something like unholy rage - part 2 - a high priority if they want to maintain the integrity of the game. I hope this is in their plans (about 18 months away, to keep with the current meme). Let me rephrase then to make sure. They ban also mining/ratting/missionning bots, even those not involved in RMT (isk selling). They're a bit harder to identify, but they do get banned as well. Non RMTers might get a warning before being banned though. To be fair, I was thinking exactly the same thing you are until I spoke with the GMs. It's not a matter of being willing to ban them, but a question of identifying them. If you suspect one to be macroing, report! They investigate all the cases. So where exactly do I report these Macroers?
Meissa Anunthiel	Posted - 2010.08.13 01:02:00 - [47] Edited by: Meissa Anunthiel on 13/08/2010 01:05:20 Originally by: Cyprus Black Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel CCP IS working on the problem. That's right. CCP IS working on the problem just like they're working on all the other problems in Eve... Oh... right forgot. It'll be at least a year and a half to two years till then. Well I guess watch out botters! Your comeuppance will be here soon... in two years! You succeed at sarcasm, but fail at understanding... GMs are the ones taking care of that problem, and you don't want a GM touching the code. As to where to report them, you do that with the in-game petition system (F12->create a new petition), and file it under "Rules and policies" -> "EULA & Terms of Service" (any GM around can feel free to correct that assertion if it's invalid) member of CSM 2, 3, 4 and 5. Feel free to contact me with queries. Convo, evemail or join the "meissaCSM" in-game channel.
Kewso	Posted - 2010.08.13 01:12:00 - [48] I lubz my macro bot... and my nostromo n52
Zelda Wei	Posted - 2010.08.13 08:42:00 - [49] Edited by: Zelda Wei on 13/08/2010 08:43:21 Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel If you meet BOTs, report them. CCP deals with these guys on a regular basis. When reported, bots are monitored and eliminated in batches (follow the money, otherwise it's whack-a-mole). So it may not seem like they're taking action because they're not banning the account immediately, but they do, and reporting them helps. Also, your statement that they're keeping the botters in the game for the subscription is demonstrably false. Check the dev blog about unholy rage. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but the amount of isk spamming has also drastically decreased. CCP IS working on the problem. While I'm not at liberty to talk about recent figures, I can assure you the process has been continued and the amount of accounts banned has kept increasing. I understand what you say and it has been said many times before. I find the claims somewhat unconvincing, and judging from the number of other player posts so do many others. I don't subscribe to the idea that it is hard to automate bot detection. I think it weighs low on priority because it harms short term revenue in favour of an intangible long term benefit. Have a suspected boting score on each character/account and use a bayesian network to identify suspects for further investigation. Add points for time logged on. Add a report as suspected bot button, add points for each report. Add points for sharing an IP block with known bots, more points for closer proximity. Add point for using anon proxy. Add points for moving all the ISK from the character. Investigate further from the top score, as botting behaviour become better understood, tune points and add more rules. Win the botting war. I've used a very similar approach to identify price & content scraping bots and it works.
Lady Aja Caldari	Posted - 2010.08.13 08:58:00 - [50] HA! @ unholy rage.... anyone with half a brain knows it was a publicity stunt by ccp, they have no intentions of banning rmters this side of 5 years. I see groups of isk farmers/rmters all over the place. and ccp refuses to do anythign about them or the corps helping them out. so Meissa dont talk about ** you have nfi about! Originally by:** Meissa Anunthiel If you meet BOTs, report them. CCP deals with these guys on a regular basis. When reported, bots are monitored and eliminated in batches (follow the money, otherwise it's whack-a-mole). So it may not seem like they're taking action because they're not banning the account immediately, but they do, and reporting them helps. Also, your statement that they're keeping the botters in the game for the subscription is demonstrably false. Check the dev blog about unholy rage. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but the amount of isk spamming has also drastically decreased. CCP IS working on the problem. While I'm not at liberty to talk about recent figures, I can assure you the process has been continued and the amount of accounts banned has kept increasing.
Sarton Wells	Posted - 2010.08.13 09:07:00 - [51] Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia The fact that bots have and continue to crash the markets in eve and CCP has not made one iota of an effort to implement anything into the game to fix that ...but yeah "they are working on it" Care to mention a single mmo where there aren't bots and/or hacks even for a few days?
Darek Castigatus Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel	Posted - 2010.08.13 10:40:00 - [52] Originally by: Lady Aja HA! @ unholy rage.... anyone with half a brain knows it was a publicity stunt by ccp, they have no intentions of banning rmters this side of 5 years. I see groups of isk farmers/rmters all over the place. and ccp refuses to do anythign about them or the corps helping them out. so Meissa dont talk about you have nfi about! Bolded the part of your own advice you really should take yourself. http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php
Jennifer Fenring Amarr	Posted - 2010.08.13 10:52:00 - [53] Is there any list of banned botters? There's games that publish those! I don't think CCP is losing the war vs the botters, it's always been a matter of peaceful coexistence. Unless you sell it for RL money that is.
Richard Christy	Posted - 2010.08.13 11:15:00 - [54] Edited by: Richard Christy on 13/08/2010 11:19:41 Please do not comment on ~~the lack of~~ bot moderation. Originally by: Stick Cult CCP bans them in batches of thousands every few months (Unholy Rage). One instance of a batch ban in how many years? Saying it's every few months is comical. ibtl anyway
Sarton Wells	Posted - 2010.08.13 11:58:00 - [55] If it isn't doable for a huge developer like Blizzard it most certainly isn't doable for anyone else.
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.08.13 12:11:00 - [56] Originally by: Richard Christy Maybe if their logs actually existed, they could flag character activity 23/7, for 6 consecutive days. There's not 90 million people logged in, it's a few tens of thousands. I'm sure it's do-able. Why on Earth would it take that much time? If they're actual botters it's not going to take long at all for a GM to find out. The problem is likely the signal to noise ratio, like i've said before. People who are actively against macros and botters are jamming the system up with false reports, and actually helping the real users of such things. My deepest sympathies. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance	Posted - 2010.08.13 12:48:00 - [57] Bots will never completely go away, but I still have to facepalm how bot friendly CCP made some aspects of the game. Macro or bot mining was always a large problem, even when I started the game, but CCP promised a mining overhaul but never released it. So far, so bad, but what I do not get is PI, when there is one thing is this game that was practically written for them, then it is planetary management. Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
Khavi Kitamatsu	Posted - 2010.08.13 12:59:00 - [58] Now botters can buy fully skilled mining characters to mine for ores(yes let's make it simpler for them to generate ISK) brilliant ideal! Not! Lot's give them PLEX! Now the botters have awesome mining capabilites and never have to pay a cent to mine ore and still make a killing selling ISK outside of game! Pure genius!
Meissa Anunthiel	Posted - 2010.08.13 13:13:00 - [59] Originally by: Richard Christy Edited by: Richard Christy on 13/08/2010 11:29:19 Edited by: Richard Christy on 13/08/2010 11:19:41 Please do not comment on ~~the lack of~~ bot moderation. Originally by: Stick Cult CCP bans them in batches of thousands every few months (Unholy Rage). One instance of a batch ban in how many years? Saying it's every few months is comical. I'm here to report that, at every CSM meeting, we get the report on how that CONTINUOUS process is going. And it's still going strong. The GM report (devblog) on it is more sporadic, but the effort is ongoing. I agree with the other posters (and yourself) that an effort could be made on automatic detection and better enforcement against the non-RMTing macroers, so I'm not going to defend CCP's position on that front beyond what is already going on (and things are going on on both those fronts, just less than I would like). Feel free to hit me up in-game if you want to have a conversation about it. member of CSM 2, 3, 4 and 5. Feel free to contact me with queries. Convo, evemail or join the "meissaCSM" in-game channel.
Khavi Kitamatsu	Posted - 2010.08.13 13:22:00 - [60] Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel Originally by: Richard Christy Edited by: Richard Christy on 13/08/2010 11:29:19 Edited by: Richard Christy on 13/08/2010 11:19:41 Please do not comment on ~~the lack of~~ bot moderation. Originally by: Stick Cult CCP bans them in batches of thousands every few months (Unholy Rage). One instance of a batch ban in how many years? Saying it's every few months is comical. I'm here to report that, at every CSM meeting, we get the report on how that CONTINUOUS process is going. And it's still going strong. The GM report (devblog) on it is more sporadic, but the effort is ongoing. I agree with the other posters (and yourself) that an effort could be made on automatic detection and better enforcement against the non-RMTing macroers, so I'm not going to defend CCP's position on that front beyond what is already going on (and things are going on on both those fronts, just less than I would like). Feel free to hit me up in-game if you want to have a conversation about it. Clearly they don't do enough. In one of the systems I frequent, to fill ore orders, I have to compete with mining bots all the time. They strip the belts clean in that system within 24hrs.

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