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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Xessej
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Posted - 2010.08.18 01:50:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: stoicfaux
I know Python is used in the client, but I just can't imagine Python being used on the server side, so I wouldn't think that performance was a major reason for upgrading.
Python is definitely the primary programming language of the server code. According to CCP's own statements only performance critical code is being converted to C++.
I know its crazy but that's is what they've said many times.
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Xessej
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Posted - 2010.08.18 02:06:00 -
[2]
It's kind of amazing that the original designer(s) thought an interpreted scripting language was the way to go in developing a MMO. At this point it is way past time that all new code be in C++ and some team be chugging away at converting the codebase. Unfortunately they seem attached to Python which means they will never achieve the performance they could get.
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Xessej
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Posted - 2010.08.18 05:31:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
A bunch of BS-Liang
Ed: code tags. Also, I don't claim either implementation is necessarily great - in fact I deliberately did a bad job with C++ to illustrate my point.
You intentionally wrote bad code as if that would prove anything. Any code you can write in Python I can write in C++ and it will run faster (Python is written in C++ and is typeless so it has to produce less efficient code than well written C++ that is a simple fact.)
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Xessej
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Posted - 2010.08.18 05:49:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 18/08/2010 05:42:41
Originally by: Xessej
You intentionally wrote bad code as if that would prove anything. Any code you can write in Python I can write in C++ and it will run faster (Python is written in C++ and is typeless so it has to produce less efficient code than well written C++ that is a simple fact.)
Congratulations for completely missing the point. See, the point was that its all about the algorithm. People say "Switch to C++!" like its some magic cure-all but the truth of the matter is that its likely to be an enormous time investment for very little performance gain - if any. And that argument totally neglects how easy it is to maintain one over the other.
You do know that your metrics are meaningless since you are intentionally writing inefficient C++ code and comparing it to efficient (well as efficient as Python can get) Python.
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Xessej
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Posted - 2010.08.18 07:19:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
And if you get hit by a bus and some other poor dev has to decipher your part of the code we'll all be in BIG FAT ASS KICKING trouble down the road.
You armchair programmers and code *****s can say what you want.
Python is easier to maintain after x-years of several people contributing to the code base and that's what counts here for CCP.
Also, from the newest dev blogs it doesn't look like we've got trouble in form of lag because of the programming language or database used by ccp.. we're facing trouble because of the n^(n-1) nature problem by players staying close and poking each other.
<whatever prog language> might work faster, but the cap would be there nonetheless..
I am a developer and project manager with an expertise in saving failed projects. I have refactored entire projects written in Python/Perl/VB into C/C++. It is a major pain but in systems that do not perform and have pervasive execution speed problems it is always the best solution.
CCP is likely trying their best to profile their running code but the simple fact is they cannot put sufficient performance measuring yools on the live server without drastically affecting performance and testing on Sisi will likely never find the problem if they haven't found it already. Sisi is simply too different from TQ to be a reasonable test environment.
Therefore one thing to do is to refactor the whole codebase to gain all the performance gains you can get. If CCP doesn't have the people in house who can do that job there are hundreds of coders in the US and Europe out of work who can. This isn't a job for guys who are primarily graphics or game coders. Eve is fundamentally a mission critical distributed real time application and the only things roughly equivalent are some of the weather sim supercomputers and the high volume financial world. Those are the guys I'd be hiring.
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