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Merc Powers
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Posted - 2010.08.18 16:41:00 -
[1]
Spending time and ammo doing lvl4/5's just to get your wrecks salvaged by a NOOB is BS!!!! Whom ever accepted the mission from the agent should be able to agro the Ninja and defend the wrecks. This way the Ninjas also has risk in STEALING wrecks. This will also add added PVP opertunaties in High Sec space. Mission runners run the risk of loosing wrecks or and the Ninjas the risk of being owned..... or not ;-) There is currently no balance.
The practice of salviging other players wrecks are "Legalised Pirating" in High Sec!! No risk to Ninjas only ISK !!
Even the odds, allow mission runners to shoot High Sec  |
Cikulisuy
Amarr
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2010.08.18 16:56:00 -
[2]
without getting into an argument from authority, sure. then when the ninjas kill the mission bears, i will laugh. or you're a troll. either way, have a good life.
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Merc Powers
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Posted - 2010.08.18 17:15:00 -
[3]
It would be funny if a Ninja killed the mission runner, at least he would have EARNED IT..... More fun in High Sec, more posibilities.
Not all players have a corp full of alts to fund playtime/GTC/PLEX. Every salvaged wreck, loot and mission reward helps.
And no that is not what 0.0 is for. You won't see any so called Ninja's there. They ARE to scared,they ARE the Carebears, they WILL be killed, they WILL be part of the profit.
Take the Ninja on or let them take your wrecks. Allow people to protect what they have killed. In nature you own what you can kill and defend. It should be the same in space.
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Solostrom
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Posted - 2010.08.18 17:20:00 -
[4]
Per CCP Mitnal:  Originally by: CCP Mitnal
"Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."
Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu
Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.
Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium
Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.
Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X
Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito
Had a chat with some designers this evening.
Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private.
They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.
(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)
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Merc Powers
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Posted - 2010.08.18 17:29:00 -
[5]
Thank you for the nice "Copy+Paste"
Allow them to take the wreck, BUT give me the option to defend the wreck. IMO I own the wreck, CONCORD/CCP is fine with someone taking it. I am too, BUT allow me to devend it without CONCORD intervention if I choose. It is my mission, I killed the NPC with my ammo and time, let me defend it.
Be a NINJA with balls !!!!!
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Slimy Worm
Cyan Wolf
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Posted - 2010.08.18 19:35:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Merc Powers
Spending time and ammo doing lvl4/5's... STEALING wrecks.
gb2wowkthxbai
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SurrenderMonkey
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Posted - 2010.08.18 19:39:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Merc Powers
IMO I own the wreck,
IMO, 2+2 = 5. See the problem? Your opinion is irrelevant. You don't own the wreckage, and this is by design.
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Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp |
Oliver Stoned
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.08.18 19:59:00 -
[8]
Couldn't CCP just make the wrecks turn blue after 1 hour and be free for all??
Until then it belongs the missioneer?
Time enough for someone to salvage their mission?
Where's that EASY button.
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SurrenderMonkey
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Posted - 2010.08.18 20:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Oliver Stoned
Couldn't CCP just make the wrecks turn blue after 1 hour and be free for all??
Until then it belongs the missioneer?
Time enough for someone to salvage their mission?
Where's that EASY button.
They could, but why would they?
You're acting like the fact that wrecks don't belong to anyone is something that was merely overlooked. It isn't.
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Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp |
AtheistOfFail
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.08.18 20:41:00 -
[10]
Salvage has no value therefore it can not be stolen. If you have a problem with CCP's ingame policies you can...
[ ]Ragequit
[ ]Deal with it
[ ]Keep trolling
if you pick the first one, can i haz your stuff?
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Oliver Stoned
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.08.18 20:57:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Oliver Stoned on 18/08/2010 20:58:21
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey
They could, but why would they?
You're acting like the fact that wrecks don't belong to anyone is something that was merely overlooked. It isn't.
Because CCP is known to give in or compromise on some arguments/debates.
Even as intended or in the game mechanics, you have people that like and hate it.
Example: the Warp to Zero.
That just took time till they caved in.
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Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
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Posted - 2010.08.18 21:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Oliver Stoned
Edited by: Oliver Stoned on 18/08/2010 20:58:21
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey
They could, but why would they?
You're acting like the fact that wrecks don't belong to anyone is something that was merely overlooked. It isn't.
Because CCP is known to give in or compromise on some arguments/debates.
Even as intended or in the game mechanics, you have people that like and hate it.
Example: the Warp to Zero.
That just took time till they caved in.
And that was because servers couldn't hole 49389538593458349583434859348539534958934 bookmarks everyone had. And only because of that.
Read latest "THE WORD" |
Merc Powers
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Posted - 2010.08.19 03:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey
Originally by: Merc Powers
IMO I own the wreck,
IMO, 2+2 = 5. See the problem? Your opinion is irrelevant. You don't own the wreckage, and this is by design.
Funny you must be a Ninja 
All I am asking is to LEGALLY DEFEND it, for the duration of the Mission. Take my wrecks while I mission, by all means. BUT run the risk of being popped yourself, for that duration. I am not asking much. AND I AM NOT ALLONE !!!
Instead of insulting what I have to say, think for yourself and what new doors this could open for Hisec PVP, if your not a Carebear. 
The mechanics behind this is to keep weak players from leaving the game. Ninjas are getting of on people that are RAGING in local about it. TOTAL FAIL !!!!
If Ninjas really want the wrecks, they should work for it. RISK vs. REWARD
NINJAS.... ppppfffttt !!! HISEC HOBO's 
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Azure Blooder
Amarr
A Miner Dream
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Posted - 2010.08.19 03:38:00 -
[14]
If the ninja isn't paying attention, which some arn't, leave the mission and come back, then take whats left of his cargo, go in a station or fight out the 15mins and look you beat the crap out of a ninja. Better yet, get a buddy to salvage as you go killing, that way no ninjas get your stuff. There are many ways to beat a ninja you just have to use your head. Or is your head full of air? Does your hamster have no toes?
Really it's not that hard.
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Knowledge is power
Power is Knowledge
Nether is really important... |
SurrenderMonkey
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Posted - 2010.08.19 03:55:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Funny you must be a Ninja
Actually, I'm not - I'm merely averse to the whiny-crybaby contingent's "Ruin everything" agenda.
Quote:
All I am asking is to LEGALLY DEFEND it, for the duration of the Mission.
Why should you be able to LEGALLY DEFEND what isn't yours?
Quote:
Take my wrecks while I mission, by all means. BUT run the risk of being popped yourself, for that duration.
Why should you be able to endanger someone for taking something that isn't yours?
Quote:
I am not asking much. AND I AM NOT ALLONE !!!
Instead of insulting what I have to say, think for yourself and what new doors this could open for Hisec PVP, if your not a Carebear.
Oh, right, of course. Anyone who disagrees with you isn't thinking for themselves.  This, coming right after your lame attempt to shore up your argument by stating that you're "not allone" [sic].
Quote:
The mechanics behind this is to keep weak players from leaving the game.
The population of the game has steadily grown over time, so your concerns are demonstrably unfounded.
Quote:
Ninjas are getting of on people that are RAGING in local about it.
Don't rage, then. Problem solved.
Quote:
TOTAL FAIL !!!!
I'm sure you'll try harder to do better in the future.
Quote:
If Ninjas really want the wrecks, they should work for it. RISK vs. REWARD
Oh, gawd, this nonsense? "RISK VS. REWARD!" is basically the, "What about the children? Won't somebody think of the children?" of Eve Online. It doesn't mean anything, it's just a one-size-fits-all soundbite that people tack on to any and every argument to make it sound as if they've somehow put some thought and effort into their meandering ramblings.
If you really want "RISK vs. REWARD" in Eve in any honest and consistent fashion, I have some great news! You probably won't have to worry about mission ninja looters... because you probably won't be running missions anymore.
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Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp |
Merc Powers
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Posted - 2010.08.19 05:15:00 -
[16]
SurrenderMonkey : You must be working for CCP. You are right, this is a practice for the Poor Children of EVE, Ninjas.
This practice allow Ninjas to gain, FACT !
I don't own the wrecks, OK, but I do own the mission and the space while I am in it. Let me defend that !!!
It is also great for CCP. WHY ??? I have to get another account to salvage my mission wrecks. HHHmmmm now THAT is why game dynamics like this exists.
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Scorpion Milk
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Posted - 2010.08.19 05:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Merc Powers
SurrenderMonkey : You must be working for CCP. You are right, this is a practice for the Poor Children of EVE, Ninjas.
This practice allow Ninjas to gain, FACT !
I don't own the wrecks, OK, but I do own the mission and the space while I am in it. Let me defend that !!!
It is also great for CCP. WHY ??? I have to get another account to salvage my mission wrecks. HHHmmmm now THAT is why game dynamics like this exists.
Yeah, not like you would ask a friend to help you out , use a tractor beam to pull them towards you since ninjas can't, salvage at the same time, or leave the mission to have the rats attack the ninja. Yup, completely out of options |
Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.08.19 06:44:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Merc Powers
And no that is not what 0.0 is for. You won't see any so called Ninja's there. They ARE to scared,they ARE the Carebears, they WILL be killed, they WILL be part of the profit.
I used to 'ninja' missions in lowsec (not on this character). Warp in, kill the runner, take all the stuff.
Thats not really ninjaing though now is it, that just ganking a mission runner.. You cant really do that in highsec, so you end up with ninjas..
(Yes I have done this to plex runners in 0.0 as well, and yes, its usually a lot harder and not worth the risk)
Replying to threads without reading them since 2008 |
Xorv
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Posted - 2010.08.19 09:08:00 -
[19]
Most Ninja Salvagers steal loot as well, so you get your chance to shoot at them... if you dare. 
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Di Mulle
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Posted - 2010.08.19 09:48:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Merc Powers
I don't own the wrecks, OK, but I do own the mission and the space while I am in it.
You don't "own" a space either.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.08.19 11:42:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 19/08/2010 11:46:00
Originally by: Merc Powers
Even the odds, allow mission runners to shoot High Sec
no, but you could do your missions in low or 0.0, where you are allowed to shoot them.
Originally by: Merc Powers
Take the Ninja on or let them take your wrecks. Allow people to protect what they have killed. In nature you own what you can kill and defend. It should be the same in space.
why? You are already rewarded with the loot + bounty. Your job is done at that point. You may grab the salvage also, if you manage to, but you have no claim on that. Per game rules.
Originally by: Merc Powers
Allow them to take the wreck, BUT give me the option to defend the wreck. IMO I own the wreck
why? There is nothing to defend because there is nothing yours.
Originally by: Oliver Stoned
Couldn't CCP just make the wrecks turn blue after 1 hour and be free for all??
Until then it belongs the missioneer?
uhm... WHY? Wrecks are explicitely made as NOT missioners property.
Originally by: Oliver Stoned
Time enough for someone to salvage their mission?
stop missioning in jita, then you will have all the time you need...
Originally by: Oliver Stoned
Where's that EASY button.
its called missioning. Lets face it, you're all doing missions because its an easy flow of money. There are many, many different ways to earn the multiple of the money you earn with missions at less risk, bot you mission monkeys are grinding motsu and all the other hubs - because IT IS THE EASY ISK BUTTON!
Originally by: Merc Powers
All I am asking is to LEGALLY DEFEND it, for the duration of the Mission.
why should you be able to "defend" whats not yours?
Originally by: Merc Powers
Instead of insulting what I have to say, think for yourself and what new doors this could open for Hisec PVP, if your not a Carebear.
you are an idiot if you shoot someone entering your mission. Nobody does, only people who like loosing their mission ships.
Originally by: Merc Powers
If Ninjas really want the wrecks, they should work for it. RISK vs. REWARD
btw. risk vs. reward is a lie. There is none. There are many ways to earn tons of ISK at almost no risk, just sitting at station and babysitting your buy/sell orders is one of them.
Originally by: Merc Powers
but I do own the mission and the space while I am in it
you dont.
Originally by: Merc Powers
It is also great for CCP. WHY ??? I have to get another account to salvage my mission wrecks.
you dont have to, unless you want ALL for yourself with no sharing. Whats about getting buddies? Letting a noob salvage missions after you for a little money, there are enough noobs loving that because they despise the nature of ninja salvaging for similar reasons you do, just ask in local. If you arent a gready ass who would never share, just whine in forums.
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Captain Yifan
Shadows Of The Requiem
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.08.19 12:40:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Captain Yifan on 19/08/2010 12:44:43
As the poster of the $insert_large_number_here'th thread about ninja salvaging.
OP, you are either a troll, or an idiot, or both. Consider it a compliment if we consider you just as a troll.
Oh, and are you an alt of Paul Clavet faking carebear tears again?
A more serious answer to you:
Salvaging is a competitive business, if you want that piece of salvage, you need to beat the ninja to it. As a mission runner, you already have numerous advantages over a ninja: you know exactly where the wrecks are, you know exactly when they are created, where a ninja have to scan you down to find the wrecks. CCP is stupid but its not going to be stupid enough to give you any more advantage on that matter.
To sum it up, EvE is a competitive PvP multiplayer Role Playing game. You agreed to that the moment you log onto EvE. You sir, are basically complaining that soccer is too hard because you have to fight for the ball against an opponent.
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Jabru
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.19 14:12:00 -
[23]
if i recall correctly once upon a time people didnt get agression for stealing ore from a miners jetcan, then there was this big Ho-Ha about being able to defend that they mined.
So miner shot back and theif swapped ship and killed miner. I doubt you will auctally shoot back if you had agression though.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.08.19 14:40:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 19/08/2010 14:41:21
Originally by: Jabru
So miner shot back and theif swapped ship and killed miner. I doubt you will auctally shoot back if you had agression though.
right.
Like they arent shooting back when one steals their loot (tried it many times with no success) because the mechanic is regularly used for trapping exactly those people who were supposed to being protected with the aggro rule.
Concluding from that, a salvage aggro would change exactly nothing except giving people another way to trap mission runners and kill them.
Facing all that facts, I cannot understand all the whine about the salvage, they wont shot the thief anyways, except for a suicide.
Stop whinage and leave mission hubs instead in order to avoid being ninja salvaged.
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Julia Venatrix
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Posted - 2010.08.19 16:00:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Xorv
Most Ninja Salvagers steal loot as well, so you get your chance to shoot at them... if you dare.
Regrettably, most I've met don't steal loot, but hide behind the skirts of Concord like frightened toddlers.
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Some days you are the pigeon, and some the statue. |
Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.08.19 16:40:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Julia Venatrix
Originally by: Xorv
Most Ninja Salvagers steal loot as well, so you get your chance to shoot at them... if you dare.
Regrettably, most I've met don't steal loot, but hide behind the skirts of Concord like frightened toddlers.
yeah, assumed you would get your new salvage-aggro, there will be a lot more people interested only in aggroing you besides of the regular ninjas, so you wont be able to keep them apart and you wont ever shoot at them anyways.
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Jokerface666
Amarr
Cosmology
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Posted - 2010.08.21 01:37:00 -
[27]
so you'Re saying no ninjas in 0.0 space?
i ninja W-Space while they're killing sleepers... ECM FTW!!!!
BR,
Joker
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