so you're saying that it should literally cost half a billion to kill an afk mining hulk, one with nothing fitted as far as a tank, absolutely nothing trained as far as tanking skills and no effort taken to mitigate the risk of being blown up

i'm not trying to put words in your mouth but that sounds like what you're trying to say by "it should cost more to kill a ship than what the ship is worth"

Just slapping more EHP is not the answer. All that does is make it easier for players to AFK and bot there way through the game. CCP needs to totally look at barges and exhumers and make them work using existing design parameters and tweaking them as need.

Add a little more PU and CPU, and maybe another rig slot. Then make sure that people wanting to make use of these ships understand that they are industrial ships - not ******* armor clad machines of war. That you as the miner have a choice....either you fit the ship to give it armor to protect it - or you give it better yield capabilities. If you choose to neglect the risk and go for yield...you chose to take the risk - you chose.

Make it quite clear the purpose and use of the ships. If players do not want to listen than it it their fault.

This ideal that mining barges are going to have better yield and armor like a cruiser or BS is - BS. CCP is going to make AFK mining and botting surge like never before. The ones this will hurt are the players that do actually stay at their computers and play the game as intended.

This will also have a huge impact on mineral and ore prices - and make mining even more of a chore than it all ready is. There is a solution - just not the way CCP intends to do it.

so whats the price of a skiff nowadays?

i wanna make a fleet of battle skiffs... (maybe for null sec bait ship)

can someone punch this into EFT and let me know its stats?


low:
dcu II
nano II

mids:
1 mwd
1 long point
1 shield extender
1 invul

highs:
1 nuet

3 warrior II

What's nuetralizer?

also lmao at "mackinaws can't fit tanks"

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16196592/Mackinaw%20-%20New%20Setup%202.jpg

32k ehp against blasters

seriously your only retort to "hey look, a mackinaw/hulk that can fit a tank" is "well it's inconvenient and it reduces my ~isk/hr~ so CCP should fix it so that I don't have to think for myself"

"my hulk should tank like a damnation because it costs as much as one, it should do as much dps as an astarte because it costs as much as one, and it should make no sacrifices in yield because it's expensive"

we trolled a lot about hulkageddon fattening our pockets, but it wasn't true

hulks didn't sell any better during hulkageddon than before

Of course, because every single Goon profits from tech (and not just the alliance as a whole).

But don't take my word for anything, since I'm obviously a Goon pet and bow down to their every bidding.

yeah i'm sure my supercarrier was built by somebody who doesn't give a flying **** about industry

hi we own space

Skiffs have bigger tanks than black ops, discuss

the problem is that in the past, hulkageddons generally involved "more expensive" ships like brutixes, discophoons, torp ravens, armageddons and domis, which were insured so the ganker would only really bear a 10-20m loss

then the nth nerf to all risk in hisec took away insurance for concord kills (since publords need to be safe while botting or being AFK) and people started using the newly buffed destroyers and tier 3 battlecruisers

and now, the n+1st nerf to all risk in hisec is vastly increasing the hitpoints on all barges

and soon, the n+2nd nerf to all risk in hisec will ensure that no freighter is worth ganking because looting it will allow everyone in the game, most of whom had no stake in either the defense or attack on that freighter, to shoot you

and the n+3rd nerf will probably equalize concord response times throughout all of hisec, so a 1.0 rookie system is no safer than a 0.5

let's see

crimewatch, which will prevent you from ganking a freighter or an officer-fit faction battleship because otherwise looting it means that anyone can shoot you and bring all the neutral RR they want and you can't shoot at their RR

this unnecessary change catering to afk miners who feel entitled to profit while only alt-tabbing from their movie to move ore to their orcas

yeah, welcome to a risk-free hisec. a new game enhancement - err, experience!

Yeah, I was confused as to what miners were referring to when they said that mining with a 100K EHP Skiff was 'low-risk activity'.

I was sitting there trying to figure out where the 'low' risk was coming from.....

it was the high-sec belt rats, thats what it was.

Oh wait - belt rats aren't even strong enough to crack the passive regen of an AFK skiff.

So what makes it 'low' risk activity as opposed to virtually 'no-risk' activity?

-Accidentally hitting the self destruction button and not noticing it?

-Accidentally ejecting and someone jacks your Skiff?

-Someone flipping your can? Oh wait, you don't need cans anymore.

if you're afk mining while under a wardec you deserve to be blown up, your corpse paraded through jita and laughed at by everyone

LOL, no silly guy. I'll let you in on a secret:

If wardecced, miners are free to drop corp until the war is over, and mine as the aggressor hadn't wasted millions of ISK.

Try again.

empire freighter alts are so 2007, pubbies will haul your freighter-sized loads for peanuts these days

i sat down and looked at some other ships that are of prices comparable to hulks, let's start

a Vigilant costs about the same as a Hulk in Jita and it has more base HP, but inferior resists (being a faction ship) and at all level Vs, unfit, it has 11k EHP. fit for its most common role, dealing HAC-like damage with dual 90% webs, it will only have 20k EHP. a brick tanked heavy tackle fit would increase its EHP to 63k, but it gives up a substantial amount of DPS. also, with dual fed navy webs, its cost goes up to ~400m. add a faction point (which is not uncommon in these ships) and you're looking at close to 500M.

a Devoter isn't much cheaper than a Hulk (difference is like 20M in Jita) and it only has a few thousand more EHP unfit, although this is due to its resist bonus - which is necessary, considering that it tends to be the primary especially when supers are on the field. fit for its primary role, being a brick tanked bubbler, it can field a massive tank - 215k EHP with Damnation bonuses. it also tends to have an entire blob of ships shooting at it.

both of these ships are used in combat and the vigilant's tanking abilities aren't terribly impressive even compared to a hulk. oh and they're generally not AFK in a belt and they're not that great for making ISK.