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Quentin Marshall
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.07.26 20:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
So if I am afk mining, it would seem that the Retriever is a better option to do it than the Covetor given that it has a bigger cargohold. Would people agree or disagree?
Retriever: Ore hold: 30,000 m3 Covetor: Ore hold: 7,000 m3
Also, why did they decide to add an ore hold for the new patch? Was it to help minimize the can flipping that would occur with jet can mining? |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
269
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Posted - 2012.07.26 20:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
disagree, because by the time you fill the 7k ore hold the asteroids have popped and you need to target new asteroids and start your strips again. also the covetor has a higher yield.
next stupid question? Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
General Koen
ExoNova Academy
1
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Posted - 2012.07.26 20:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
For AFK mining bigger cargo is always better. Make sure to tankfit it. ;) |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
269
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Posted - 2012.07.26 20:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
General Koen wrote:For AFK mining bigger cargo is always better. Make sure to tankfit it. ;)
yep 30k cago is going to help afk mine when you've only got 7k worth of ore targeted! Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
857
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Posted - 2012.07.26 20:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:General Koen wrote:For AFK mining bigger cargo is always better. Make sure to tankfit it. ;) yep 30k cago is going to help afk mine when you've only got 7k worth of ore targeted! So do not target 7k cu m of ore. Survey scanners are your friend. Also note that now any ship can be an ice miner. You make it a bonused ice miner by adding the ice mining rig. And ice roids rarely pop.
So the real afk mining option will be a well tanked up ice mining vessel. Ice and ice products are going to fall in price...... http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Quentin Marshall
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.07.26 21:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
General Koen wrote:For AFK mining bigger cargo is always better. Make sure to tankfit it. ;)
Yeah, my preference is for afk and I will sacrifice some of the extra yield that a covetor gives. Regrettably the 2nd poster doesn't know how to target roids that will yield more than 7k yield. LOL. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
269
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Posted - 2012.07.26 21:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Quentin Marshall wrote:General Koen wrote:For AFK mining bigger cargo is always better. Make sure to tankfit it. ;) Yeah, my preference is for afk and I will sacrifice some of the extra yield that a covetor gives. Regrettably the 2nd poster doesn't know how to target roids that will yield more than 7k yield. LOL.
considering the op doesn't know what ship to use for what job... Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
122
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Posted - 2012.07.26 21:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:yep 30k cago is going to help afk mine when you've only got 7k worth of ore targeted!
You probably want to leave Caldari space. Or search for less populated systems. |
Styth spiting
Ion Corp. NightSong Directorate
36
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Posted - 2012.07.27 06:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Quentin Marshall wrote:General Koen wrote:For AFK mining bigger cargo is always better. Make sure to tankfit it. ;) Yeah, my preference is for afk and I will sacrifice some of the extra yield that a covetor gives. Regrettably the 2nd poster doesn't know how to target roids that will yield more than 7k yield. LOL. considering the op doesn't know what ship to use for what job...
Well you obviously know less then the original poster so just keep your ignorant comments to yourself.
The Retriever is the best full on afk mining barge because of its low price. Naturally the yield isn't very high but the ship/fittings can be paid off with roughly 1/2 hour of mining. And with the ore hold increase you can get away with only looking at your screen every 15 - 30 minutes (based on roid field).
The mackinaw is the best idling barge. it has a huge ore hold and 2nd best mining yield, but requires 7 - 8 hours of mining to pay off. And if you are simply idling (still paying attention to screen but doing other things) you can use mining drones II to increase your yield.
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Draconyx
Oort Cloud Industries The OORT Cloud
4
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Posted - 2012.07.27 07:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Third best yield Best to worst
Hulk - Covetor - Mackinaw - Retriever - Skiff - Procurer
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Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
277
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Posted - 2012.07.27 07:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Styth spiting wrote:Dave stark wrote:Quentin Marshall wrote:General Koen wrote:For AFK mining bigger cargo is always better. Make sure to tankfit it. ;) Yeah, my preference is for afk and I will sacrifice some of the extra yield that a covetor gives. Regrettably the 2nd poster doesn't know how to target roids that will yield more than 7k yield. LOL. considering the op doesn't know what ship to use for what job... Well you obviously know less then the original poster so just keep your ignorant comments to yourself.
haha, amusing.
considering the size of the ore bay is largely irrelevant to afk mining due to the fact that most asteroids in high sec pop rather quickly it's astounding how ignorant other players are.
you're only going to be able to go afk for great stretches of time mining ice, otherwise the only benefit of using the mackinaw/retriever is the time between docking up to dump ore. you're still going to have to be at the computer to change asteroids etc; as such if you've not got a phobia of jetcans a covetor or a hulk is the superior choice.
also in it's current state; unless you need tank (mining in null (which you should in a fleet for bonuses etc meaning you should be using a hulk)) then the mackinaw isn't worth it's price tag after yesterday's nerf. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
31
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Posted - 2012.07.27 07:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yield
Hulk - Covetor - Mackinaw - Retriever - Skiff - Procurer
Tank
Skiff - Procurer(?)- Mackinaw - Retriever - Hulk - Covetor
Ore Hold
Mackinaw - Retriever - Skiff - Procurer - Hulk - Covetor
(Not overly sure on placement for procurer, as I have seen very little stats for it). Is the Covetor really the softest tank of them all?
I think I agree with what many others are predicting. The Mack will be the new high sec AFK, solo and dual miner of choice, The Hulk will be the multi-account or ship / orca miner of choice, and the Skiff will be the low sec and 0.0 beastly tank miner.
I may actually try out a pair of macks for myself and my alt in place of my Hulk / Orca, see how it turns out. |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
31
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Posted - 2012.07.27 08:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dave stark wrote: *snip* also in it's current state; unless you need tank (mining in null (which you should in a fleet for bonuses etc meaning you should be using a hulk)) then the mackinaw isn't worth it's price tag after yesterday's nerf.
Ah. What nerf did the mack take? I have not been keeping up to date.
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Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
277
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Posted - 2012.07.27 08:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Zyella Stormborn wrote:The Mack will be the new high sec AFK, solo and dual miner of choice.
not unless there are some changes for it on sisi today.
the ore bay has less than 1 cycle of extra room over the covetor, and with the requirement being exhumers I it's only 1% yield improvement, and when you're popping roids in 2 cycles with or without an extra 1% yield it's irrelevant. even at exhumers V it's only a 5% yield improvement, again almost unnoticed when asteroids pop so quickly. in high sec you won't even need the extra tank the mackinaw offers, a flight of t2 drones is more than sufficient for dealing with 0.7 and higher belt rats.
the mackinaw is woefully under performing for it's price tag at the moment. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
277
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Posted - 2012.07.27 08:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zyella Stormborn wrote:Dave stark wrote: *snip* also in it's current state; unless you need tank (mining in null (which you should in a fleet for bonuses etc meaning you should be using a hulk)) then the mackinaw isn't worth it's price tag after yesterday's nerf. Ah. What nerf did the mack take? I have not been keeping up to date.
the mack had it's ore bay dropped from ~37k to ~31k, and to compound issues the ret went from like ~25k to ~28k, the difference is less than 1 cycle of ore. the only upgrade is the tankability of the ship; which in high sec is irrelevant for belt rats. as pointed out the payback time for a ret is tiny therefore why risk an expensive ship when the ret is practically the same ship for a fraction of the price? Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Draconyx
Oort Cloud Industries The OORT Cloud
4
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Posted - 2012.07.27 09:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Zyella Stormborn wrote:Dave stark wrote: *snip* also in it's current state; unless you need tank (mining in null (which you should in a fleet for bonuses etc meaning you should be using a hulk)) then the mackinaw isn't worth it's price tag after yesterday's nerf. Ah. What nerf did the mack take? I have not been keeping up to date. the mack had it's ore bay dropped from ~37k to ~31k, and to compound issues the ret went from like ~25k to ~28k, the difference is less than 1 cycle of ore. the only upgrade is the tankability of the ship; which in high sec is irrelevant for belt rats. as pointed out the payback time for a ret is tiny therefore why risk an expensive ship when the ret is practically the same ship for a fraction of the price?
I still don't see what the problem is, if you are in null you can use a Mack for the extra tank if you solo or 1 to 3 ships. Anything above that use a Hulk + hauler For high-sec dweller the retriever will become the ship of choice for 1 to 3 ships. it is a lot cheaper.
By the Way the the Hulk and the Mack are even for ICE so the Mack will win that fight and the retriever is only 2 pieces of ice behind per hour so once again the retriever is great for high-sec ice mining.
So if you are in High-sec use retrievers for ice and ore unless you have dedicated hauler and have 3 or more miners And for Null it is the Mac with the exact same setup.
This is not a problem if anything people should be happy. Although I still believe the MACK needs a little more CPU for a proper fit. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
278
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Posted - 2012.07.27 09:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
Draconyx wrote:By the Way the the Hulk and the Mack are even for ICE so the Mack will win that fight and the retriever is only 2 pieces of ice behind per hour so once again the retriever is great for high-sec ice mining.
the hulk and mack are not equal for ice.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Draconyx
Oort Cloud Industries The OORT Cloud
4
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Posted - 2012.07.27 09:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Draconyx wrote:By the Way the the Hulk and the Mack are even for ICE so the Mack will win that fight and the retriever is only 2 pieces of ice behind per hour so once again the retriever is great for high-sec ice mining. the hulk and mack are not equal for ice. in fact, they are not equal for anything.
Go fit them up on the test server you will find they are the same. OR let me save you the hassle,
Hulk cycle 236.01s or 14 cycles an hour and 3 blocks per cycle = 42 Blocks Mack cycle 170.01 or 21 cycles an hour and 2 blocks per cycle = 42 Blocks Ret cycle 178.96 or 20 cycles an hour and 2 blocks per cycle = 40 Blocks Those are without fleet bonuses.
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Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
278
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Posted - 2012.07.27 09:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Draconyx wrote:Dave stark wrote:Draconyx wrote:By the Way the the Hulk and the Mack are even for ICE so the Mack will win that fight and the retriever is only 2 pieces of ice behind per hour so once again the retriever is great for high-sec ice mining. the hulk and mack are not equal for ice. in fact, they are not equal for anything. Go fit them up on the test server you will find they are the same. OR let me save you the hassle, Hulk cycle 236.01s or 14 cycles an hour and 3 blocks per cycle = 42 Blocks Mack cycle 170.01 or 21 cycles an hour and 2 blocks per cycle = 42 Blocks Ret cycle 178.96 or 20 cycles an hour and 2 blocks per cycle = 40 Blocks Those are without fleet bonuses.
go and see any of the other threads, me and others have done the maths; and all agree on our maths, that the hulk mines more than the mackinaw, which mines more than the skiff. fleet bonuses do not favour one ship over another. the simple fact is the exhumer bonus for hulks outweighs the third ihu of the mackinaw. the hulk out mines every ship on every ore every time.
the hulk will pull in 75 ice per hour, the mack pulls in 69 ice an hour, and the skiff pulls in 63 ice per hour. the current mackinaw pulls in 75 ice per hour as well. ice yield is unchanged if you bother swapping ship, if you don't then you'll mine less ice. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Draconyx
Oort Cloud Industries The OORT Cloud
4
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Posted - 2012.07.27 09:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Draconyx wrote:Dave stark wrote:Draconyx wrote:By the Way the the Hulk and the Mack are even for ICE so the Mack will win that fight and the retriever is only 2 pieces of ice behind per hour so once again the retriever is great for high-sec ice mining. the hulk and mack are not equal for ice. in fact, they are not equal for anything. Go fit them up on the test server you will find they are the same. OR let me save you the hassle, Hulk cycle 236.01s or 14 cycles an hour and 3 blocks per cycle = 42 Blocks Mack cycle 170.01 or 21 cycles an hour and 2 blocks per cycle = 42 Blocks Ret cycle 178.96 or 20 cycles an hour and 2 blocks per cycle = 40 Blocks Those are without fleet bonuses. go and see any of the other threads, me and others have done the maths; and all agree on our maths, that the hulk mines more than the mackinaw, which mines more than the skiff. fleet bonuses do not favour one ship over another. the simple fact is the exhumer bonus for hulks outweighs the third ihu of the mackinaw. the hulk out mines every ship on every ore every time. the hulk will pull in 75 ice per hour, the mack pulls in 69 ice an hour, and the skiff pulls in 63 ice per hour. the current mackinaw pulls in 75 ice per hour as well. ice yield is unchanged if you bother swapping ship, if you don't then you'll mine less ice.
Well guess what your math is wrong or what you are using for numbers is different then what test server is using. Cause those numbers listed above come right off of fitted ships on the test server. If you don't believe me then go check for yourself. I don't know why your numbers aren't coming up the same but right now on SISI the Mack and the Hulk are putting out the same Yield of ice per hour.
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Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
278
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Posted - 2012.07.27 09:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
Draconyx wrote:Dave stark wrote:Draconyx wrote:Dave stark wrote:Draconyx wrote:By the Way the the Hulk and the Mack are even for ICE so the Mack will win that fight and the retriever is only 2 pieces of ice behind per hour so once again the retriever is great for high-sec ice mining. the hulk and mack are not equal for ice. in fact, they are not equal for anything. Go fit them up on the test server you will find they are the same. OR let me save you the hassle, Hulk cycle 236.01s or 14 cycles an hour and 3 blocks per cycle = 42 Blocks Mack cycle 170.01 or 21 cycles an hour and 2 blocks per cycle = 42 Blocks Ret cycle 178.96 or 20 cycles an hour and 2 blocks per cycle = 40 Blocks Those are without fleet bonuses. go and see any of the other threads, me and others have done the maths; and all agree on our maths, that the hulk mines more than the mackinaw, which mines more than the skiff. fleet bonuses do not favour one ship over another. the simple fact is the exhumer bonus for hulks outweighs the third ihu of the mackinaw. the hulk out mines every ship on every ore every time. the hulk will pull in 75 ice per hour, the mack pulls in 69 ice an hour, and the skiff pulls in 63 ice per hour. the current mackinaw pulls in 75 ice per hour as well. ice yield is unchanged if you bother swapping ship, if you don't then you'll mine less ice. Well guess what your math is wrong or what you are using for numbers is different then what test server is using. Cause those numbers listed above come right off of fitted ships on the test server. If you don't believe me then go check for yourself. I don't know why your numbers aren't coming up the same but right now on SISI the Mack and the Hulk are putting out the same Yield of ice per hour.
my math is not wrong; nor are the other peoples, and it has been verified on sisi by other people. considering you're the only one not getting the same numbers as the rest of us, i think you should go and check.
again, due to the fact that the hulk gets an ice bonus per exhumer level and the mackinaw doesn't get a bonus of the same magnitude it means that they can't pull in the same ice/hour. again, go and check. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Draconyx
Oort Cloud Industries The OORT Cloud
4
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Posted - 2012.07.27 09:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:
my math is not wrong; nor are the other peoples, and it has been verified on sisi by other people. considering you're the only one not getting the same numbers as the rest of us, i think you should go and check.
again, due to the fact that the hulk gets an ice bonus per exhumer level and the mackinaw doesn't get a bonus of the same magnitude it means that they can't pull in the same ice/hour. again, go and check.
I am looking at it right now just double checked it. The times are correct. don't know what to tell you. Where you putting upgrades in all the low slots for both ships ? Hulk has 2 where the Mack has 3 ?
Maybe they changed something sense your number were verified on SISI.
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Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
278
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Posted - 2012.07.27 10:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
Draconyx wrote:Dave stark wrote:
my math is not wrong; nor are the other peoples, and it has been verified on sisi by other people. considering you're the only one not getting the same numbers as the rest of us, i think you should go and check.
again, due to the fact that the hulk gets an ice bonus per exhumer level and the mackinaw doesn't get a bonus of the same magnitude it means that they can't pull in the same ice/hour. again, go and check.
I am looking at it right now just double checked it. The times are correct. don't know what to tell you. Where you putting upgrades in all the low slots for both ships ? Hulk has 2 where the Mack has 3 ? Maybe they changed something sense your number were verified on SISI.
ship bonuses are unchanged, i have sisi open right now. all ships fitted for max yield. (yes 3ihu for the mack, and 2 for the hulk, both have an ice rig, max skills and 3% yeti implant and orca bonuses) Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1195
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Posted - 2012.07.27 10:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Draconyx wrote:Dave stark wrote:
my math is not wrong; nor are the other peoples, and it has been verified on sisi by other people. considering you're the only one not getting the same numbers as the rest of us, i think you should go and check.
again, due to the fact that the hulk gets an ice bonus per exhumer level and the mackinaw doesn't get a bonus of the same magnitude it means that they can't pull in the same ice/hour. again, go and check.
I am looking at it right now just double checked it. The times are correct. don't know what to tell you. Where you putting upgrades in all the low slots for both ships ? Hulk has 2 where the Mack has 3 ? Maybe they changed something sense your number were verified on SISI. Dont try and argue with Dave Stark,
He has proven on multiple occasions that he is as smart as a bag of spanners My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
278
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Posted - 2012.07.27 10:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Draconyx wrote:Dave stark wrote:
my math is not wrong; nor are the other peoples, and it has been verified on sisi by other people. considering you're the only one not getting the same numbers as the rest of us, i think you should go and check.
again, due to the fact that the hulk gets an ice bonus per exhumer level and the mackinaw doesn't get a bonus of the same magnitude it means that they can't pull in the same ice/hour. again, go and check.
I am looking at it right now just double checked it. The times are correct. don't know what to tell you. Where you putting upgrades in all the low slots for both ships ? Hulk has 2 where the Mack has 3 ? Maybe they changed something sense your number were verified on SISI. Dont try and argue with Dave Stark, He has proven on multiple occasions that he is as smart as a bag of spanners
he's not trying to argue, he's just presented an incorrect fact. feel free to disprove the maths that i've done. this isn't a matter of opinion or principle, it's mathematical calculation. it is, or it is not. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Draconyx
Oort Cloud Industries The OORT Cloud
4
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Posted - 2012.07.27 10:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
And it all comes down to what are your cycle times ?
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Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
278
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Posted - 2012.07.27 10:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
Draconyx wrote:And it all comes down to what are your cycle times ?
I am showing
Hulk = 236.01 Mack = 170.01 these are the cycle times i, and others, are getting. varified here. and here. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Draconyx
Oort Cloud Industries The OORT Cloud
4
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Posted - 2012.07.27 10:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
Well those where your old numbers I was curious if they are the same now. Cause
Ship was refitting and I even put in Yeti 3% to see if the 5% were bugged but.
So I am now getting under "Activation Time / duration" Hulk - 240.98 T2 Ice Harvester + (2) Ice Harvester Upgrades Mack - 173.59 T2 Ice Harvester + (3) Ice Harvester Upgrades And Yes I have Exhumers 5.
Have no idea why you are getting different numbers, other then maybe there is a bug. So CCP what should we be getting ?????
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Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
278
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Posted - 2012.07.27 10:34:00 -
[29] - Quote
Draconyx wrote:Well those where your old numbers I was curious if they are the same now. Cause Ship was refitting and I even put in Yeti 3% to see if the 5% were bugged but. So I am now getting under "Activation Time / duration" Hulk - 240.98 T2 Ice Harvester + (2) Ice Harvester Upgrades Mack - 173.59 T2 Ice Harvester + (3) Ice Harvester Upgrades And Yes I have Exhumers 5. Have no idea why you are getting different numbers, other then maybe there is a bug. So CCP what should we be getting ?????
you haven't rigged the ship, and you're not in a fleet with an orca bonus.
even with those fits, you're getting 3 more ice per hour with a hulk. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Draconyx
Oort Cloud Industries The OORT Cloud
4
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Posted - 2012.07.27 10:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:
you haven't rigged the ship, and you're not in a fleet with an orca bonus.
even with those fits, you're getting 3 more ice per hour with a hulk. 44.8 vs 41.4
Well I said I wasn't in fleet from the start and as far as the rig well it might be listed on the market but you can't purchase it yet. Which tells me you were getting the same numbers as me when you went to the test server.
3 more ice an hour, really you are going to go there, why am I not surprised. that is one more cycle, It managed to squeeze before the 3600 sec mark. Over time will it make a difference, yes. Enough to merit switching from a Mack to a Hulk. Nope. Not when you look at the cost and the cargo holds it doesn't. So in short they are very close when it comes down to it.
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