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CCP actually doing something about lag

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Stick Cult	Posted - 2010.08.26 22:40:00 - [31] Originally by: Mire Stoude Lets fast forward a few month months/years. The Forum topic will be, "OH boy CCP fixed lag, we can do 1000 vs 1000 fleet fights!" A week later the topic will be "LAG! OMG! We can't even do a 1800 vs 1800 fleet fight! CCP SUX CCP FIX!" ... and the cycle continues. Your point? Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
Camios Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe	Posted - 2010.08.26 22:44:00 - [32] Edited by: Camios on 26/08/2010 22:45:44 Edited by: Camios on 26/08/2010 22:44:39 The point is that if they don't fix game design we will always have lag, and the game experience will not be better. Thanks to CCP for optimizing and updating their hardware, but everyone knows that this will not end server performanc problems. Tech guys at CCP are doing a good job, I hope that management will make game design play his part. Everybody knows what I am saying.
Stick Cult	Posted - 2010.08.26 22:46:00 - [33] Originally by: Camios Edited by: Camios on 26/08/2010 22:44:39 The point is that if they don't fix game design we will always have lag, and the game experience will not be better. Thanks to CCP for optimizing and updating their hardware, but everyone knows that this will not end server performanc problems. Tech guys at CCP are doing a good job, I hope that game design plays his part. Everybody knows what I am saying. People will always find a way to push the limits. Any limitations to the actual number of pilots you can bring in will just result in MOAR!! whining. Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.08.26 22:47:00 - [34] Originally by: Mire Stoude Lets fast forward a few month months/years. The Forum topic will be, "OH boy CCP fixed lag, we can do 1000 vs 1000 fleet fights!" A week later the topic will be "LAG! OMG! We can't even do a 1800 vs 1800 fleet fight! CCP SUX CCP FIX!" ... and the cycle continues. Just to be fair there was a time when you could actually have a 2000 ship fight all the way to the natural end of one side getting vaporized or running away or whatevah. At the time they hadn't started any new yelling for moar and it was actually kinda rare to see a huge 2000 ship slugfest. This is why we get so much rage from the fleet fight guys because they know it can be achived and they are getting rather impatient to get back into their part of the game. Can't say I blame them even if I do bash the stupid ones who try to bring the whole game down because their part is not working. Originally by: CCP Oveur My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard. Originally by: Ryhss There is no paranoia in Eve, everyone is out to get you....
FreddyMac	Posted - 2010.08.26 22:55:00 - [35] Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails ^ sorry posted with wrong char lol x LOL too funny...
Aphser Amarr Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2010.08.26 23:45:00 - [36] Edited by: Aphser on 26/08/2010 23:45:45 Nice piece of lip service by CCP so far. Alas, a dev blog or 5 do sadly not indicate any real progress on the lag issue and some others like... um... broken mechanics... broken mechanics... or... broken mechanics? But yeah, let's give them the benefit of doubt, I'll believe it when I actually see the result(s). And no, boosting Jita or any other random single system in EVE doesn't really count. Because some of us actually could care less about that particular system than about tomorrow's weather. Really sure though lot of those people unhappy at best with current state will really appreciate the huge effort CCP put in on their behalf by "buffing"... Jita... Especially those in nullsec.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.08.26 23:53:00 - [37] Originally by: Aphser Really sure though lot of those people unhappy at best with current state will really appreciate the huge effort CCP put in on their behalf by "buffing"... Jita... Especially those in nullsec. You do realise that ccp 'buffed' jita because its the only place in eve that consistantly has a large load of players every single day of the week and so made the perfect place to test the new hardware to see if getting even faster hardware would make a difference in solving the lag issue? I mean ccp tried to do it with the help of the actual people who do the fleet fights with the sisi mass testing but they all pretty much said ** off ccp and do it yourself as we can't be arsed. True story. Originally by:** CCP Oveur My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard. Originally by: Ryhss There is no paranoia in Eve, everyone is out to get you....
Stick Cult	Posted - 2010.08.26 23:53:00 - [38] Originally by: Aphser Edited by: Aphser on 26/08/2010 23:45:45 Nice piece of lip service by CCP so far. Alas, a dev blog or 5 do sadly not indicate any real progress on the lag issue and some others like... um... broken mechanics... broken mechanics... or... broken mechanics? But yeah, let's give them the benefit of doubt, I'll believe it when I actually see the result(s). And no, boosting Jita or any other random single system in EVE doesn't really count. Because some of us actually could care less about that particular system than about tomorrow's weather. Really sure though lot of those people unhappy at best with current state will really appreciate the huge effort CCP put in on their behalf by "buffing"... Jita... Especially those in nullsec. The use of Jita as a testing ground is because it can be depended on to have ~a lot~ of people in it, while it's anyone's guess which of a few 100 nullsec systems will have a big battle in more then a few hours prior. The recent change that allowed Jita to hold 10% more people was applied to all of eve, and should be evident in nullsec fights. Jita was used because it can clearly show a change, like a control in an experiment. The new hardware on the Jita node is being tested, and will (most likely) be replacing all of the nodes in Eve soonÖ. Once again, just to see if it works, it's set up in Jita. Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
Aphser Amarr Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2010.08.27 00:04:00 - [39] Edited by: Aphser on 27/08/2010 00:06:00 Bit of an unrealistic testbed if that really was it what's supposed to be, isn't it? Considering there have been no big complaints after Dominion, Apocrypha and Tyrannis release about Jita performance. So ofc, if you want to guarantee a positive result in advance, you pick a system that doesn't have the pointed out issues. But nah, cannot be, who would even think about rigged test results to score a quick PR hit, right? Whatever the reasons for picking Jita of all places, though, fact stands that the most atypical system (own node, system cap of ppl allowed in, etc.) has been picked to do a test for all of EVE. If that really was the original intention (which I'm not sure about), that would only make me more suspicious about the seriousness of CCP's attempts, sorry.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.08.27 00:08:00 - [40] Originally by: Aphser Bit of an unrealistic testbed if that really was it what's supposed to be, isn't it? Considering there have been no big complaints after dominion and Apocrypha release about Jita performance. So ofc, if you want to guarantee a positive result in advance, you pick a system that doesn't have the pointed out issues. But nah, cannot be, who would even think about rigged test results to score a quick PR hit, right? Whatever the reasons for picking Jita of all places, though, fact stands that the most atypical system (own node, system cap of ppl allowed in, etc.) has been picked to do a test for all of EVE. If that really was the original intention (which I'm not sure about), that would only make me more suspicious about the seriousness of CCP's attempts, sorry. Blame your fleet fight mates for not helping out then. Can't run a 'realistic' test if they all are sitting in a corner with scrunched up pouty lips and crossed arms holding their breath till they turn blue between raging on the forums to fix lag. so want to help yourselves? Help ccp fix lag instead of giving me endless amusment on the forums with your rants. Originally by: CCP Oveur My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard. Originally by: Ryhss There is no paranoia in Eve, everyone is out to get you....
Aphser Amarr Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2010.08.27 00:20:00 - [41] Originally by: Zeba [...]Blame your fleet fight mates [...] Fleet fight mates? You are aware about my KB stats? Obviously not... And you are also aware about the (minor?) screwup that happened with the last big lag test on SiSi which made it impossible for a quite a few willing ppl to join SiSi? Or did you conveniently "forget" about that? But yeah, I guess the sudden, barely announced changes done there were totally not CCP's fault as we players run SiSi... oh, wait... Quote: [...] so want to help yourselves? Help ccp fix lag[...] Thx, but no thx. Not my job, I am not a CCP employee and I currently am fine with logging in occasionally to check skillqueue mostly and perhaps have a nice chat or three. Quote: [...]instead of giving me endless amusment on the forums with your rants. Delusional much? Coming from someone with YOUR recent trollc... errr... postcount, that's beyond absurd. I most likely didn't even make 10% of your forum spam, sorry to say...
Stick Cult	Posted - 2010.08.27 00:48:00 - [42] Originally by: Aphser Quote: [...] so want to help yourselves? Help ccp fix lag[...] Thx, but no thx. Not my job, I am not a CCP employee and I currently am fine with logging in occasionally to check skillqueue mostly and perhaps have a nice chat or three. The problem is that this is an MMO, and these issues only show themselves when there are a lot of people around. I'm not saying it's your job to join the Mass Tests, but CCP can't find out the problem without having these big fights they can monitor on Sisi. Instead of spending time on the forums complaining about lag and starting "Let's quit until it's fixed!" campaigns, spend that same time in a Mass Test and do something ~useful~. (Not directed solely at you, but to everyone) The new Thin Clients should help to make Mass Tests obsolete, but they probably won't completely, though they have already helped fix one big factor of module lag (currently not deployed because the fix caused other problems I think, but still). Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.08.27 00:54:00 - [43] Originally by: Aphser Originally by: Zeba [...]Blame your fleet fight mates [...] Fleet fight mates? You are aware about my KB stats? Obviously not... And you are also aware about the (minor?) screwup that happened with the last big lag test on SiSi which made it impossible for a quite a few willing ppl to join SiSi? Or did you conveniently "forget" about that? But yeah, I guess the sudden, barely announced changes done there were totally not CCP's fault as we players run SiSi... oh, wait... Ok didn't bother to check your kb stats for a forum reply so my apologies even though I still didn't check your kb stats because I can't seem to see any relevance in the act. But anyways, yeah sisi can be kinda unstable at times considering they are using test code for the testing. So the odd time it totally lags out using a new batch shouldn't come as a complete suprise to the players who regularly help out with testing there. Either way the devs learn something that can be applied to the next batch of test code even if the players might think its a total wash. Unless you are implying ccp should be able to provide a lag free test enviroment on the test server using test code to find a fix for the lag. Originally by: Aphser Quote: [...] so want to help yourselves? Help ccp fix lag[...] Thx, but no thx. Not my job, I am not a CCP employee and I currently am fine with logging in occasionally to check skillqueue mostly and perhaps have a nice chat or three. Well of course its your right not to help if you don't want to help but just saying that if noone extra helps them then its statistically going to take longer for ccp to find the fix. Outside help from the players who actually do the fleet fights = Faster time to find a fix. Pouting in a corner and demanding a fix nao without lending a hand = Slower time to find a fix. It's your choice afterall so choose well. Originally by: Aphser Quote: [...]instead of giving me endless amusment on the forums with your rants. Delusional much? Coming from someone with YOUR recent trollc... errr... postcount, that's beyond absurd. I most likely didn't even make 10% of your forum spam, sorry to say... Yes because not agreeing with the lobbyist front is trolling. Well maybe it is but not quite in the way you seem to think. Originally by: CCP Oveur My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard. Originally by: Ryhss There is no paranoia in Eve, everyone is out to get you....
yourdoingitwrong	Posted - 2010.08.27 01:02:00 - [44] Edited by: yourdoingitwrong on 27/08/2010 01:03:38 people can make all the rationalizations they want. When a game goes from 1000 person fleet fights with minimal lag to node crashes with 200 something is broken. It cannot be avoided now and there is no way around it. Even the desperate trolling of zeba cant hide the fact that it must be fixed. the issue that no one considers is it may not be fixable to the degree that it once was. So how long can/will ccp string people along in this kind of situation before finally admitting it.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.08.27 01:11:00 - [45] Originally by: yourdoingitwrong people can make all the rationalizations they want. When a game goes from 1000 person fleet fights with minimal lag to node crashes with 200 something is broken. It cannot be avoided now and there is no way around it. Even the desperate trolling of zeba cant hide the fact that it must be fixed. the issue that no one considers is it may not be fixable to the degree that it once was. So how long can/will ccp string people along in this kind of situation before finally admitting it. Wait what? Noone is aware of the crushing fleet fight lag that has been around and loudly proclaimed across the forums for all to see on the first laggy fight after dominion which the devs immediatly acknowledged and started to try to find a solution to that noone outside of a paid employee will help with? The one that ccp is writing blogs about its plans and current tactics to find a solution including the recent inclusion of an actual live server testbed using jita as the test node now that they have made sufficient advancments on the coding front and are now ready to apply it to some smoking hot hardware that can be upgraded to even moar hotter and smokier stuff if the test goes well? Dunno mate. Don't think anyone has heard about that stuff. Care to fill us in? Originally by: CCP Oveur My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard. Originally by: Ryhss There is no paranoia in Eve, everyone is out to get you....
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2010.08.27 01:33:00 - [46] Originally by: yourdoingitwrong people can make all the rationalizations they want. When a game goes from 1000 person fleet fights with minimal lag to node crashes with 200 something is broken. This one time on PostgreSQL camp, I saw someone extend a buffer by 2kB on a machine with 4GB of RAM, and performance dropped to 5%. The catch was that that 2kB pushed one process into swap. At the same time, we'd been optimising code elsewhere to make the most use of the L1/L2 cache (ie: keeping code tight, doing as much as we could in 2kB blocks, ensuring that stuff written to disk was done in quanta matching the disk's native block size). Once that 2kB buffer pushed one block out to swap, we ruined everything - having to load swap meant that the parts of the kernel responsible for handling swap hoarded the on-chip cache, moving blocks in and out from disk chewed up RAM I/O, etc. In our case we simply trimmed the buffer back to its original size and the machine got back to normal operation after a few hours. Then there was that time when I wrote a database management system for a microcontroller (Harvard architecture - program in EEPROM, RAM only for run-time stuff). There were timers for maintenance tasks, and one change I made to the code overran the timer by 1 clock cycle. The entire hardware crashed, and I had to find places to cut 1 clock cycle out of the maintenance task. I couldn't roll back the code because the new maintenance that had to be done was related to the core purpose of the device, which was controlling access to physical resources based on an ACL distributed over the network. It was at this point in time that I found out about "XOR AX,AX" being faster than "MOV AX,0" and managed to trim about 20 clock cycles off the maintenance task. Besides liking the sound of my own typing, what's this all about? Simply, whatever caused the problem with fleet lag in the Dominion rollout was very likely that five cycle task that pushed the duration of some code 1 cycle over the threshold. When the threshold was crossed, all kinds of stuff stopped working properly due to timing constraints. Fixing the problem is a lot harder than simply rolling back and trying again. There will be hundreds of places that the devs will be finding problems, due to legacy code, hastily written stuff with its associated technical debt, and a few extra processes they didn't realise would actually impact upon the combat simulation. Fixing stuff takes time, and fixing the camel's broken back is harder than simply removing that last straw. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Camios Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe	Posted - 2010.08.27 02:05:00 - [47] Edited by: Camios on 27/08/2010 02:07:46 Edited by: Camios on 27/08/2010 02:07:30 Originally by: Stick Cult Originally by: Camios Edited by: Camios on 26/08/2010 22:44:39 The point is that if they don't fix game design we will always have lag, and the game experience will not be better. Thanks to CCP for optimizing and updating their hardware, but everyone knows that this will not end server performanc problems. Tech guys at CCP are doing a good job, I hope that game design plays his part. Everybody knows what I am saying. People will always find a way to push the limits. Any limitations to the actual number of pilots you can bring in will just result in MOAR!! whining. Yes, people will always find a way to push the limits. But the the mechanic of the game can just change so that there is not the need (or it's even better not) to bring all those people in just one solarsystem. It's not possible to stop people to go in a system and causing lag, but it's possible to discourage that with a suitable game mechanic, so that if you do it, you have a strategical disadvantage so that you lose the battle against an opponent that plays differently. Is it that hard? Just tell me why in real life wars forces are spread across a wide frontline, and don't concentrate like they do in EVE.
Jimmmy Jones	Posted - 2010.09.03 00:11:00 - [48] Because real life has much more accurate and effictive massive AOE weapons than eve...? Nobody wants to cluster together if the other guy has no qualms about carpet bombing the entire block, something we cant do in eve. In advance, this is not intended in any way shape or form to be a political commentary on any conflict whatsover.
LOL56 Woopatang Primary.	Posted - 2010.09.03 03:41:00 - [49] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infantry_square The blob IRL.
Spurty Caldari D00M. Northern Coalition.	Posted - 2010.09.03 03:55:00 - [50] Please add overview to the to do list

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