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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.09.04 20:54:00 -
[1]
This is an official announcement from the current Board of Directors.
If you do not verify your account within the next three months the balance will be written off.
Your compliance with this directive is appreciated, you can verify your account by supplying your LIMITED API KEY or your BLEEP KEY on the ACCOUNT PROFILE page of OUR WEBSITE.
I reiterate that your failure to authenticate your account by supplying one of the above keys will result in the balance being wiped.
This announcement will be repeated on our frontpage, the ingame EBANK chat channel as well as through mails to the supplied email addresses, your suggestions for further avenues of communication will be appreciated.
Yours Sincerely,
Ray McCormack
COO
On Behalf of the EBANK BOD
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EBANK Amarr155
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Posted - 2010.09.04 20:56:00 -
[2]
Confirming the above.
/finger
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EBANK SencneS
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2010.09.04 20:58:00 -
[3]
This is confirmation I agree to this announcement.
Please verify your account/s within the next three months. This is the final time we are requesting this, delays if your verification will result is loss of account.
SencneS
EBANK - Board of Directors.
SencneS
Board of Directors EBANK |
RAW23
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Posted - 2010.09.04 21:12:00 -
[4]
Back to straightforward theft, eh? I guess it's the season for it with Bobby going rogue.
So, what happened with the suspense accounts? Why was that shelved and why have you reverted to the initial plan that you had dropped in the face of so much criticism?
And to return to my unanswered question from months ago, can you even begin to offer an ethical justification for this given that ebank accounts were sold on the basis of it being a safe place to leave isk if you were going to be out of game for some time? If you don't consider this to be outright theft, please explain why not.
Came expecting progress, left with greater contempt for the board than ever before. |
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
|
Posted - 2010.09.04 21:16:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: RAW23
If you don't consider this to be outright theft, please explain why not.
A year and some is not enough time to verify you want your ISK?
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.09.04 21:29:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
A year and some is not enough time to verify you want your ISK?
My people put their ISK in EBANK because they were leaving the game for some extended period. You'd be disappointing those customers. (Note I'm using the most charitable verb I can find for this, others might call it something else.)
Is there any reason to write off the balance in these accounts?
The only circumstance where I might consider it fair is if EBANK was closing down and wished to distribute all its isk among active customers. Is that the plan?
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.09.04 21:38:00 -
[7]
All we have to say on the matter is contained in the first post. The bank and its employees will not be drawn into further discussion. A subsequent announcement will be made on the 19th of Septemeber.
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.09.04 21:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
All we have to say on the matter is contained in the first post. The bank and its employees will not be drawn into further discussion. A subsequent announcement will be made on the 19th of Septemeber.
That would've been 100% convincing if you hadn't just started discussing it yourself 22 minutes before. Even if you don't want to be drawn into a discussion, a short post with an explanation of the reasons why the BoD decided on this course of action would be nice.
Props for the timing of the announcement btw.
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2010.09.04 22:23:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
This announcement will be repeated on our frontpage, the ingame EBANK chat channel as well as through mails to the supplied email addresses, your suggestions for further avenues of communication will be appreciated.
Obviously the ISS News. And maybe in some of the eve newspapers created by the community. I will try not to extend myself much since the money is in your pockets to do what you want with it, including theft, but as per the clauses agreed when people deposited this is what it is. A breaching of contract that results in theft. Only valid justification to do it would be the closure of the institution, let's see what you do next so we know what it is.
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Yendor Widdershins
Gallente
University of Caille
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Posted - 2010.09.04 22:43:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
A subsequent announcement will be made on the 19th of Septemeber.
Any one starting a pool on when the actual announcement will be? I'll take October 22nd for the "We're almost ready to make an announcement" announcement.
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SetrakDark
Northstar Cabal
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.09.04 22:45:00 -
[11]
I can...see...through......TIME!
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Dzil
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.09.04 22:51:00 -
[12]
September 31st
Retired from corp sales. Time to spend some of this on pretty explosions :) |
admiral fovios
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.09.05 03:14:00 -
[13]
Raw, why ask for reasons? We all know the reason. The BoD has been utterly ineffective at restoring the liquidity through investments. Which is particularly unfortunate since we just went through patch where anyone with an ounce of savvy multiplied their money a few times over.
The only workable plan they've come up with in a year and a bit is to write-off as many accounts as they can. "Hrm, we have a 100 accounts which are due 10,000 isk each, but we only have 3,000 isk for each one. We're refusing to just do a cash out because we'll never have our hands on this kind of money and power otherwise, but we suck at investing (which is why we'll never get this money otherwise). Hey, what if we arbitrarely cut those 100 accounts to 30? Nice!"
It's the best idea they've had in a year. Don't gripe at them for employing something which will actually work. If you want to complain about their stealing, their theft occurred when they refused to return money late last year. Old news at this point. Instead, badmouth them for their continued obstinate refusal to give people back their pro rata share of the ruins of ebank.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.05 03:30:00 -
[14]
TBH a line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere.
1. Along time ago EBANK asked for limited API data to verify accounts.
2. A time frame was given until March 20101 (iirc).
3. Major howls of protests from many people stating they didn't trust EBANK with the data.
4. After much discussion the idea of using BLEEP KEY was recommended
5. Although this is a much longer timeframe than would have been helpful this is now implemented.
6. This has covered all concerns over security of information
7. Announcements have been made, and e-mails (according to EBANK) have been sent
It is now time to move on. EBANK is not realistically going to get back to a 2T capital base in a reasonable timeframe. Now that most customer concerns about security have been addressed it is reasonable that account verification be carried out.
Some people are going to lose out, but it is now better to pay out some people than none.
I fully endorse wiping accounts that have not been verified in 3 months. If at that time the verified accounts is less or equal to current assets then the bank can turn on functionality and if people wish to withdraw their cash they may do so, and will likely lead to a mass liquidation.
Time to move on from mud slinging, who is to blame, why people didn't invest in expansions, etc....
Time to get some cash out (if possible).
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Filious Tacabus
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.09.05 08:41:00 -
[15]
I was told you guys would reset pending accounts within a week, there have gone three weeks now. Any eta on this beeing done?
Fili
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.09.05 16:46:00 -
[16]
Anyone know of a decent email shot service?
There are 4,466 unique, seemingly valid email addresses in the lolbank database, which would mean 45 separate messages and the chance of getting my gmail account temporarily suspended if more than 25 addresses per message bounce back.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.09.05 17:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Anyone know of a decent email shot service?
There are 4,466 unique, seemingly valid email addresses in the lolbank database, which would mean 45 separate messages and the chance of getting my gmail account temporarily suspended if more than 25 addresses per message bounce back.
Sending a bulk mail will just result in spam filters being triggered (it's easy to detect your attempt) and your effort will be in vain.
You'd better just setting up a proper email account with smtp and send max 3 recipents at a time. One quick way to do that is to go in one free web hosting that supports ie. smtp and PHP and upload & start a free php mailing script you can find in many places, ie phpclasses.org
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Cobalt Sixty
Caldari
The Price of Darkness
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Posted - 2010.09.05 17:28:00 -
[18]
Originally by: cosmoray
2. A time frame was given until March 20101 (iirc).
I hope this is a typing error, and that this isn't something that could take longer than it could for CCP to rebalance Rockets, boost Assault Frigates, etc, etc, etc.
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.09.05 17:38:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Sending a bulk mail will just result in spam filters being triggered (it's easy to detect your attempt) and your effort will be in vain.
You'd better just setting up a proper email account with smtp and send max 3 recipents at a time. One quick way to do that is to go in one free web hosting that supports ie. smtp and PHP and upload & start a free php mailing script you can find in many places, ie phpclasses.org
Yes, and I am looking for a service that does this for me so I don't have to go to all that bother.
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Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.09.05 18:40:00 -
[20]
Translation:Either confirm you're here playing eve or you'll be stripped of of your assets by e-thieves.
knowledge is power |
Sexy Suzie
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Posted - 2010.09.05 20:40:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
This is an official announcement from the current Board of Directors.
If you do not verify your account within the next three months the balance will be written off.
Your compliance with this directive is appreciated, you can verify your account by supplying your LIMITED API KEY or your BLEEP KEY on the ACCOUNT PROFILE page of OUR WEBSITE.
I reiterate that your failure to authenticate your account by supplying one of the above keys will result in the balance being wiped.
This announcement will be repeated on our frontpage, the ingame EBANK chat channel as well as through mails to the supplied email addresses, your suggestions for further avenues of communication will be appreciated.
Yours Sincerely,
Ray McCormack
COO
On Behalf of the EBANK BOD
Guys why draw this thing out, you like messing with people?
Just take all the isk already and be done with it. Get on with your lives and finally prove to everyone what most people already know- you guys are thieves.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.09.06 02:43:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Yes, and I am looking for a service that does this for me so I don't have to go to all that bother.
I can do that service for you. All I require is your full api key and a unsecured loan of 400B. I hear you guys are into that kind of stuff.
-
It's not "Play through a pre-set story, become stronger, do endgame". Gameplay is open ended, and you make your own story. Unless you're too afraid of 'pvp grief' to do anything relevant |
Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.09.06 03:46:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Yes, and I am looking for a service that does this for me so I don't have to go to all that bother.
I can do that service for you. All I require is your full api key and a unsecured loan of 400B. I hear you guys are into that kind of stuff.
old joke is old. |
Irae Ragwan
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Posted - 2010.09.06 05:24:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Estel Arador
Many people put their ISK in EBANK because they were leaving the game for some extended period. You'd be disappointing those customers.
I don't generally involve myself in the bank debating here, but I could have told you or anyone else who bought into the banking scheme years ago this was unrealistic.
I am by no means implying that the board is holding high the banner of ethics here, but at the end of the day this will always be EVE, not the FDIC insured banking institutions (which, have failed on several occasions themselves) that you might want to compare it to.
My advice to you and anyone else who was sucker enough to leave a large amount of isk with ebank: Cut your losses and count any isk you're refunded as a welcome suprise.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.09.06 07:07:00 -
[25]
I am someone who has never spared a criticism for EBANK even when it was an untouchable group of gods. I have been flamed and even lost something I really valued (friendly talks with Athre).
But now I feel like it's time to say something in defense of them.
While they seem to have preserved something of their old ways (which they risk to dearly pay for later) they are attempting to do what in EvE is unseen: renounce to an already ongoing fantastic chance to scam very big & dump people & do a runner like everyone seem to do nowadays.
Of course their priority is 95% focused on saving the bank (with the 1000 shades of meaning it may have) so they WILL steamroll over any obstacle. But this could lead to the indirect consequence of having depositors being able to withdraw and since this is EvE, this is not something that would normally happen but they are also trying to do that.
Ray looks like a douche and some have doubts about his ability to generate very competitive profits in a normal scenario.
But here's the catch, this is not a normal scenario, he looks like he's one of those very few gifted managers (they are very rare even in RL) who have a keen ability to recover from catastrophes.
To achieve that, a considerable amount of guts and belly hair are required and impopular choices are needed.
Of course, his approach with people is not exactly an example of PR but PR can always come later, once the workhorse is done with the dirty work.
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
RAW23
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Posted - 2010.09.06 07:46:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
I am someone who has never spared a criticism for EBANK even when it was an untouchable group of gods. I have been flamed and even lost something I really valued (friendly talks with Athre).
But now I feel like it's time to say something in defense of them.
While they seem to have preserved something of their old ways (which they risk to dearly pay for later) they are attempting to do what in EvE is unseen: renounce to an already ongoing fantastic chance to scam very big & dump people & do a runner like everyone seem to do nowadays.
Of course their priority is 95% focused on saving the bank (with the 1000 shades of meaning it may have) so they WILL steamroll over any obstacle. But this could lead to the indirect consequence of having depositors being able to withdraw and since this is EvE, this is not something that would normally happen but they are also trying to do that.
Ray looks like a douche and some have doubts about his ability to generate very competitive profits in a normal scenario.
But here's the catch, this is not a normal scenario, he looks like he's one of those very few gifted managers (they are very rare even in RL) who have a keen ability to recover from catastrophes.
To achieve that, a considerable amount of guts and belly hair are required and impopular choices are needed.
Of course, his approach with people is not exactly an example of PR but PR can always come later, once the workhorse is done with the dirty work.
Selective scamming is still theft. It doesn't matter if Ray won't keep the money for himself - at best he is stealing from customers out of misguided good intentions (but since he has never actually articulated why he thinks stealing from customers is ncessary or justifiable its hard to give him too much credit for good intentions). At worst he is stealing from customers in order to burnish the very reputation that you are now complimenting him on. Theft is theft and it doesn't matter whether it takes big steel balls to steal - what matters is that a lot of people seem to have an ethical blindspot that allows them to excuse such actions WHEN it is done by the right people. Let a first time IPO manager try something similar though and watch the fireworks fly. |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.06 16:33:00 -
[27]
After a year most posts are still aimed at the EBANK BOD as a bunch of scammers/idiots/incompotent/....../etc.
I haven't seen any decent proposals in months, the only 1 being the use of BLEEP KEY, and this has been implemented.
The only 2 proposals left on the table are to pay everyone out at a percentage of account value equivalent to capital base, or verify accounts and then payout.
I personally think it is now better to go through account verfication. This means those players still in the game get the money rather than scammers, old BOD ALTS, or people out of the game.
If players are still unwilling to verify their accounts they are writing off their account value and that is their choice.
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Cordin Hamir
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Posted - 2010.09.06 16:51:00 -
[28]
TBH at this stage anything that brings this saga to an end has my vote (if there was a vote that is).
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Helen Hunts
Gallente
Red Dragon Mining inc
Red Dragon Industries
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Posted - 2010.09.06 16:51:00 -
[29]
Since I've done the verification thing long ago, I'm covered.
It's not that difficult, folks.
The notification was put out long ago. The deadline was extended a further 6 months. The transient population of EVE that hasn't had word by now is too lazy to check on their money at least once a year and/or has no friends to give them a heads up about things.
Hey AC, maybe some flashing neon for the site is in order.
_______________________________
Mine da rocks, make more ships.
Pop da rats, make more rigs.
Sell da gear, make more money.
Any Questions? |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2010.09.06 16:53:00 -
[30]
Quote:
Selective scamming is still theft. It doesn't matter if Ray won't keep the money for himself - at best he is stealing from customers out of misguided good intentions (but since he has never actually articulated why he thinks stealing from customers is ncessary or justifiable its hard to give him too much credit for good intentions).
I don't get your point.
I am not defending their actions, just explaining why they do them and how doing different would probably end up without stealing BUT with an even worse evil, complete loss for everyone.
I am an external observer, don't try to put me along with them, not for a single instant.
This is live realpolitique in action, Ray can be labelled as you prefer but he is doing what he's been hired for and if there's anyone able to pull this stunt it's him.
That's all what I felt like to say.
I don't need to repeat my own opinion about the whole mess in every EBANK thread, I hope.
Quote:
At worst he is stealing from customers in order to burnish the very reputation that you are now complimenting him on.
He's dutifully doing an activity none else would take.
I am sort of emphatizing with him here, because despite their operation is vastly NOT what I'd have done and he's not going to be my next fiancee at all doing like that, he's still sharing a sh!t job like me, where at best you are considered useless, at worse a rep monger.
He'll be spent and damned regardless of any outcome, regardless of any choice. He chose to be involved though.
Quote:
what matters is that a lot of people seem to have an ethical blindspot that allows them to excuse such actions WHEN it is done by the right people
There's no blindspot, there's an easy consideration:
- Have them honestly declare how after Ricdic's scam and the known other issues, they declare default, close down and every single despositor loses 80%+ of his money (assuming 20% remains to share).
- Have them make a bad face and get the depositors able to take out more than the 20% they'd otherwise would be able to take.
We are before a rightful approach that will lead to ruin or a pragmatic approach that will save something for someone.
Life is a b!tch, they felt that hard choices are made (read again: T H E Y felt).
I won't share their minset nor their ideas but I can see why they are choosing to do the latter. And yes, not for a single instant I believe it's done out of pure honest desire to help the depositors but to restore the Big Institution with all what it means.
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
RAW23
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Posted - 2010.09.06 17:53:00 -
[31]
Originally by: cosmo
The only 2 proposals left on the table are to pay everyone out at a percentage of account value equivalent to capital base, or verify accounts and then payout.
...
I personally think it is now better to go through account verfication. This means those players still in the game get the money rather than scammers, old BOD ALTS, or people out of the game.
I must have missed the post where they accepted either of these two options. Could you direct me to it please? As far as IÆm aware, they still have no intention of liquidating the business. If they did, then this plan might have some merit from a purely practical perspective. However, since they intend to keep the bank going and return it to profitability this action will have absolutely NO benefit for those account holders still in the game, as opposed to the alternative option of moving non-verified accounts off the books and keeping them on a separate suspense account ledger (as suggested by Mme Pinkerton nearly a year ago). Return to the black will still happen at exactly the same time. The only difference will be that they will refuse to pay out to anyone who returns to the game in more than three months time. If they return the bank to profitability then the only beneficiaries of writing off these accounts will be the owners of the bank. To reiterate: this will NOT speed up the recovery or increase the payouts in any way that would not also be effected by the suspense ledger approach.
Quote:
If players are still unwilling to verify their accounts they are writing off their account value and that is their choice.
This is entirely specious reasoning. If you refuse to pay a ransom to hostage takers this does not shift the responsibility for the well-being of the hostages away from them and on to you. However, with BLEEP finally implemented this is less of an issue. The issue is not so much with those who still refuse to verify their accounts as with those who will not be in the game for the three month window they have set. RayÆs response above about people having had a year to verify their accounts is also bull, as he well knows. Anyone who has been waiting for BLEEP has only just begun to have this opportunity
Originally by: cosmoray
After a year most posts are still aimed at the EBANK BOD as a bunch of scammers/idiots/incompotent/....../etc.
The fact that time has passed makes no difference. I was unaware that there was a statute of limitations on scamming. How long does Bobby have to wait before we canÆt call him a thief anymore. If it was theft when it was first suggested, then it is still theft.
Quote:
I haven't seen any decent proposals in months, the only 1 being the use of BLEEP KEY, and this has been implemented.
There have actually been quite a few suggestions. Some were even taken up by the board, such as liquidation of (some) of the poorly performing assets. However, whatÆs the point engaging with them when nothing they say can be taken at face value. This particular plan was previously set aside in favour of the suspense account approach, as far as I recall (might withdraw this comment if I canÆt find the link). It has now been reinstituted without any attempt at public consultation. Promises have repeatedly been made and deadlines set. They have almost universally been broken. What, for instance, happened to the plan to allow depositors to nominate the Chair? We never heard about that sop to public opinion again. So, there is simply no point engaging with them anymore. Time to call a spade something other than a manually operated ditch digging implement.
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SetrakDark
Northstar Cabal
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.09.06 18:17:00 -
[32]
From various unofficial comments by ray and ac155, I am under the impression that this is in preparation for closing the bank down; I doubt they will confirm or deny this at this point.
If this is part of the final closure, then I have no problems with them using verified accounts. Honestly, similar to Cosmo, as long as somebody gets some money out of this before every depositor leaves the game, I'll be happy.
However, if they intend to stay open, then I'll unleash my usual bile and vitriol.
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Business Classy
Business Class Investments
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Posted - 2010.09.06 18:18:00 -
[33]
Just getting in on an early page, I never do manage to get into these 'naughts ahead of the game...
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.09.06 18:22:00 -
[34]
Edited by: RAW23 on 06/09/2010 18:25:16
Originally by: SetrakDark
From various unofficial comments by ray and ac155, I am under the impression that this is in preparation for closing the bank down; I doubt they will confirm or deny this at this point.
If this is part of the final closure, then I have no problems with them using verified accounts. Honestly, similar to Cosmo, as long as somebody gets some money out of this before every depositor leaves the game, I'll be happy.
However, if they intend to stay open, then I'll unleash my usual bile and vitriol.
Well, if that's the case I'll throw them a party in Jita (cheap domestic sparkling wine only, though, I'm afraid; and I'm from England so that's more a threat than a promise). If they are going to shut up shop then this does need to be done as a suspense ledger would be meaningless without an institution to hold it. But if not ... not. |
RAW23
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Posted - 2010.09.06 20:22:00 -
[35]
Linkage 31st of December 2009
Originally by: Ray
Originally by: RAW23
But since the possibility of zeroing these accounts is still, apparently, on the table, can you explain how it differs from theft.
It's no longer on the table. We'll never write off account balances for inactivity or failure to provide an API key. As you state, we're finalising the entire policy surrounding Suspense Accounts, but that much I can guarantee now.
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Helen Hunts
Gallente
Red Dragon Mining inc
Red Dragon Industries
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Posted - 2010.09.06 20:44:00 -
[36]
Ray, On the EBank site, you might want to eyeball those links in the announcement. Copy-paste from the EVE forum posts leaves in little redirects.
_______________________________
Mine da rocks, make more ships.
Pop da rats, make more rigs.
Sell da gear, make more money.
Any Questions? |
Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
|
Posted - 2010.09.06 20:57:00 -
[37]
Originally by: RAW23
Edited by: RAW23 on 06/09/2010 20:32:17
Linkage 31st of December 2009
Originally by: Ray
Originally by: RAW23
But since the possibility of zeroing these accounts is still, apparently, on the table, can you explain how it differs from theft.
It's no longer on the table. We'll never write off account balances for inactivity or failure to provide an API key. As you state, we're finalising the entire policy surrounding Suspense Accounts, but that much I can guarantee now.
Congrats, you've caught Ray lieing as usual. What will this change? Nothing at all. Why? Because Ray (and the EBank staff) consider themselves above everyone else in EVE.
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.09.06 21:07:00 -
[38]
You guys really should wait until the 19th to get a solid answer. 
Speculate all you like, but the only real answers will come on the 19th.
Amarr for Life |
RAW23
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Posted - 2010.09.06 21:09:00 -
[39]
Edited by: RAW23 on 06/09/2010 21:10:35
Originally by: SencneS
You guys really should wait until the 19th to get a solid answer.
Speculate all you like, but the only real answers will come on the 19th.
So, we should make a note in our diaries for sometime next year? Or do you actually intend to stick to this deadline?
Edit - As to real answers, whatever you post will be valueless as there is no way it can be trusted. There will be no real answers until you DO something.
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Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.09.06 21:11:00 -
[40]
Originally by: SencneS
You guys really should wait until the 19th to get a solid answer.
Speculate all you like, but the only real answers will come on the 19th.
The 19th of when? 2019??? Seriously. None of the EBank staff has held to a deadline. Why in the hell would we believe you now?
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EBANK SencneS
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2010.09.06 21:20:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
A subsequent announcement will be made on the 19th of Septemeber.
Confirming an announcement will be made on the 19th of September, 2010.
Is this official enough for you? Remember what I say I mean, and this is my EBANK character, so you don't get confused about the intentions of this particular post.
SencneS
Board of Directors EBANK |
Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
|
Posted - 2010.09.06 21:25:00 -
[42]
Originally by: EBANK SencneS
Originally by: Ray McCormack
A subsequent announcement will be made on the 19th of Septemeber.
Confirming an announcement will be made on the 19th of September, 2010.
Is this official enough for you? Remember what I say I mean, and this is my EBANK character, so you don't get confused about the intentions of this particular post.
You have until 23:59:59 September 19th to make the announcement.
After that it's pitchforks, torches, and being listed as liars again.
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.09.06 22:52:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Breaker77
You have until 23:59:59 September 19th to make the announcement.
Well that happen to be a 25 hour spread of passing time so I'm going to use.... GMT -12 International Dateline West as the Timezone. 
Amarr for Life |
Amaarrah
|
Posted - 2010.09.11 21:09:00 -
[44]
Ray.
You have asked this before. You did recieve my limited API key. No problem. My patience has been showed for over 1 year, but...
Please explain why you need it AGAIN.
Now, I assume the limited API key I provided is not sufficient. Why? Can third parties abuse it or what?
p.s. Your style of addressing your clients leave room for improvement as well an explanation for the why.
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Shazwa
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Posted - 2010.09.11 21:38:00 -
[45]
yeah you owe me 1bil when I log into ebank it says zero, my patience is running out will even accept 500m but you guys are taking the mic!
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Thrasymachus TheSophist
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Posted - 2010.09.12 01:42:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Thrasymachus TheSophist on 12/09/2010 01:42:34
I think zero-ing out based on inactivity is acceptable if, and only if, you simultaneously provide a cash-out/liquidation option for current shareholders/depositors.
Zeroing people out is a big deal (assuming you care about scamming/honoring your commitments).
I think you can justify it as part of a workout/reorg that involves permitting anyone who wants out to get out, and those who do not respond get zero'd out.
Otherwise, its just theft.
My 2 cents. YMMV.
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foxische
Caldari
Stone Circle
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Posted - 2010.09.12 08:49:00 -
[47]
already added my limited key a year ago, shall I renew it or just do nothing ?
[Service]Personal standing increase (UNIQUE!) + Setting a corporation
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.09.12 09:21:00 -
[48]
Originally by: foxische
already added my limited key a year ago, shall I renew it or just do nothing ?
Just do nothing, your account is validated if you have already supplied your key.
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Netherfiend
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Posted - 2010.09.12 16:46:00 -
[49]
Could you add that to the website ?
Something like : Your API key Status: verfied / not verfied
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
|
Posted - 2010.09.12 17:16:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Netherfiend
Something like : Your API key Status: verfied / not verfied
If you can see your accounts you are verified, if you can't you are not (and will only see the profile page).
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.09.12 17:26:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: RAW23
If you don't consider this to be outright theft, please explain why not.
A year and some is not enough time to verify you want your ISK?
When the original agreement is open ended, and you reduce it, yes. Its absolutely a scam at this point.
You should be ashamed of yourself and your parents are.
When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me. |
Gabriel Virtus
hirr
|
Posted - 2010.09.12 18:12:00 -
[52]
Looks like another EBank investment went bad
It's a good strat to become solvent. Simply make ppl jump through hoops in order to maybe sort of have a chance of getting their isk back. Then put a time-limit on it, and then ban them from selling out their account to another.
You guys do realize that this is just stealing after a while, no? Maybe you should force them to give you their credit card info and billing address.
-GV
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Gabriel Virtus
hirr
|
Posted - 2010.09.12 18:19:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 12/09/2010 18:23:34
Originally by: cosmoray
After a year most posts are still aimed at the EBANK BOD as a bunch of scammers/idiots/incompotent/....../etc.
Maybe because... everything they do looks strikingly similar to scamming?
Originally by: cosmoray
I haven't seen any decent proposals in months, the only 1 being the use of BLEEP KEY, and this has been implemented.
Liquidate the bank and give everytone their current valued isk without API verification. Giving scammers or inactive players some isk is a far better choice than stealing the isk from players that you promised it would be there for.
Originally by: cosmoray
The only 2 proposals left on the table are to pay everyone out at a percentage of account value equivalent to capital base, or verify accounts and then payout.
I personally think it is now better to go through account verfication. This means those players still in the game get the money rather than scammers, old BOD ALTS, or people out of the game.
If players are still unwilling to verify their accounts they are writing off their account value and that is their choice.
If Person A puts a gun to Person B's head and tells you to empty their savings and give them all of their money and Person B does it. Oh well, it was Person B's choice? You do realize how ridiculous that statement is, no?
-GV
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Netherfiend
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Posted - 2010.09.16 09:13:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Netherfiend on 16/09/2010 09:13:02
If the bank becomes Solvent due to writing of an large sum of isk from unverfied accounts, will you allow withdrawes from verfied accounts without restrictions ?
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.09.16 14:38:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Gabriel Virtus
If Person A puts a gun to Person B's head and tells you to empty their savings and give them all of their money and Person B does it. Oh well, it was Person B's choice? You do realize how ridiculous that statement is...
Sure if that was the case... In reality it's more like...
Person B gives Person A some money, Person B walks away. Person A does everything in their power to contact Person B, Person B is not found, Person A sends out notices, fliers, and announces it on a public stage where they meet Person B. Person A gives Person B over a years to come forth, Person B still doesn't show up. Person A WANTS to give Person B the money but Person B is unreachable, and hasn't come forth, or doesn't want the money back, or wants to contribute in a contribution to a bailout effort..
While you can attempt to criminalize the actions by obviously missing the effort, it's just not a nice thing to do..
Good day sir, have a wonderful life viewing everyones actions as criminal, as sad as that appears to me.
Amarr for Life |
Gabriel Virtus
hirr
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 16:10:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 16/09/2010 16:12:36
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: Gabriel Virtus
The truth
Person B gives Person A some money because Person A promises to return that money at any time, with interest, Person B walks away. Person A does everything in their power to contact Person B, Person B is not found, Person A sends out notices, fliers, and announces it on a public stage where they met Person B. Person A gives Person B over a years to come forth, and requires that person B give them extra information not previously required, Person B still doesn't show up. Person A WANTS to give Person B the money and Person B is completely reachable because they know the Person BÆs name and their exact mailing address in order to give them their money back.
I fixed it for you. You can easily send them their isk back back by clicking give money with the character name, which you have.
Originally by: SencneS
While you can attempt to criminalize the actions by obviously missing the effort, it's just not a nice thing to do..
Good day sir, have a wonderful life viewing everyones actions as criminal, as sad as that appears to me.
Just because you are trying to do the right thing, doesnÆt make it A) the right thing or B) righteous. A simple breakdown of what you are doing is blackmailing depositors into giving you information about their accounts in order to receive a small portion of their isk back (after you take out fees of course). If they do not give you this information, you will simply void their account.
The simple truth is that you made a promise to depositors to be a steward of their money, which you failed miserably at, and now you are simply writing off these promises in order to make yourselves think you somehow saved EBank. I think it is your version of reality that is quite suspect, sir.
Furthermore, you do see the irony in you accusing me of viewing everyoneÆs actions are criminal when you make the assumption that anyone that has given you isk to hold in deposits is a scammer unless they prove otherwise? Lol.
-GV
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SetrakDark
Northstar Cabal
R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 16:18:00 -
[57]
poaned
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 16:29:00 -
[58]
Originally by: SetrakDark
poaned
Haha, yeah, in yo face! Oh wait...
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Belloche
Caldari
Heaven's Avatars
Without Remorse.
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Posted - 2010.09.16 17:16:00 -
[59]
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: Gabriel Virtus
If Person A puts a gun to Person B's head and tells you to empty their savings and give them all of their money and Person B does it. Oh well, it was Person B's choice? You do realize how ridiculous that statement is...
Sure if that was the case... In reality it's more like...
Person B gives Person A some money, Person B walks away. Person A does everything in their power to contact Person B, Person B is not found, Person A sends out notices, fliers, and announces it on a public stage where they meet Person B. Person A gives Person B over a years to come forth, Person B still doesn't show up. Person A WANTS to give Person B the money but Person B is unreachable, and hasn't come forth, or doesn't want the money back, or wants to contribute in a contribution to a bailout effort..
While you can attempt to criminalize the actions by obviously missing the effort, it's just not a nice thing to do..
Good day sir, have a wonderful life viewing everyones actions as criminal, as sad as that appears to me.
Why cant you just right click the persons name and select give isk? Is that just too hard? Even if they are not playing, you can still give them their isk. So your attempts to reach them mean NOTHING. If person A wants to give the isk back person A simply GIVES the isk back. CCP never deletes any characters from the game unless they have been biomassed and even then their contract history still exists. I could see a case for where "we tried to give isk to xxxx but the character does not exist" but anything less then that the game has a mechanic for.
Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 18:43:00 -
[60]
Ray I hate to say it but you guys probably would have had a lot more respect from the rest of the playerbase if you had just said "were pocketing the money, so long and thanks for all the fish!" instead of draging this out this long.
honestly right now you guys come acrost as some of the lamest scam artists in EVE history.
seriously you wait a year for most of your account holders to cancle accounts and try to guess when the low period of subscribers is so thoes who simply left on vacation cant get there money or whatever from you?
lame.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
a (Long) Guide to Pi
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.09.16 19:04:00 -
[61]
Edited by: SencneS on 16/09/2010 19:05:40
Well we could just leave all the accounts alone and after the people that are confirmed not to have defaulted or stolen from EBANK have taking most of it. So when they return and request a withdrawal or we attempt this..
Right click on persons - Transfer ISK - Enter the amount of their account and press OK and get this error..
"Not Enough Money"
"Your wallet contains only -1,263,522,763,032.04 ISK, but you require 0.10 ISK to complete this operation"
That's the error from EVE by the way though, I did make up the values. It's not all roses on this side of the fence, there are real issues that need choices that not everyone will like. If you don't like them sorry, but it has to be done, the people that it actually effects, the ones that really do have ISK in EBANK have yet to complain or troll to the extent of those who have ZERO ISK in EBANK or even have an account. If I went to CCP and said "Hey delete every person that doesn't have any ISK in EBANK, and deny them from posting in any EBANK Thread" the threads would be 1 page, house hardly any posts, and zero trolling.
Person B gives Person A some money because Person A promises to return that money at any time, with interest, Person B walks away. Someone comes along, we'll call them party C. Party C comes along and ROBS Person A. Person A attempts to recover the loss but just doesn't get enough in time. Person A does everything in their power to contact Person B, Person B is not found, Person A sends out notices, fliers, and announces it on a public stage where they met Person B. Person A gives Person B over a years to come forth. Person A suspects the Person B is part of Party C and requires that person B give them extra information not previously required to make sure Person B was not part of the original robbery. Person B still doesn't show up. Person A WANTS to give Person B the money but doesn't want to be taken like a fool for a second time.
There is always a reason why actions are taken some are not liked others are. If you focus on just the bad you're just sad..
Amarr for Life |
Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 19:27:00 -
[62]
Originally by: SencneS
Edited by: SencneS on 16/09/2010 19:05:40
Well we could just leave all the accounts alone and after the people that are confirmed not to have defaulted or stolen from EBANK have taking most of it. So when they return and request a withdrawal or we attempt this..
Right click on persons - Transfer ISK - Enter the amount of their account and press OK and get this error..
"Not Enough Money"
"Your wallet contains only -1,263,522,763,032.04 ISK, but you require 0.10 ISK to complete this operation"
That's the error from EVE by the way though, I did make up the values. It's not all roses on this side of the fence, there are real issues that need choices that not everyone will like. If you don't like them sorry, but it has to be done, the people that it actually effects, the ones that really do have ISK in EBANK have yet to complain or troll to the extent of those who have ZERO ISK in EBANK or even have an account. If I went to CCP and said "Hey delete every person that doesn't have any ISK in EBANK, and deny them from posting in any EBANK Thread" the threads would be 1 page, house hardly any posts, and zero trolling.
Person B gives Person A some money because Person A promises to return that money at any time, with interest, Person B walks away. Someone comes along, we'll call them party C. Party C comes along and ROBS Person A. Person A attempts to recover the loss but just doesn't get enough in time. Person A does everything in their power to contact Person B, Person B is not found, Person A sends out notices, fliers, and announces it on a public stage where they met Person B. Person A gives Person B over a years to come forth. Person A suspects the Person B is part of Party C and requires that person B give them extra information not previously required to make sure Person B was not part of the original robbery. Person B still doesn't show up. Person A WANTS to give Person B the money but doesn't want to be taken like a fool for a second time.
There is always a reason why actions are taken some are not liked others are. If you focus on just the bad you're just sad..
Wait, so who's on first?
-----------------/finger
I only post on MD when I'm too drunk too give a ****. |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 19:54:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
Wait, so who's on first?
We are... :( Ricdic already ran home and left us stranded on first, bottom of the ninth with 2 outs..
Amarr for Life |
Mme Pinkerton
United Engineering Services
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 20:06:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 16/09/2010 20:12:22
Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 16/09/2010 20:06:54
As I have not zero, not one, but two EBANK accounts, this thread would be pretty long even if SencneS could get her wish 
Asking for BLEEP/API keys only works as an exercise to weed out inactive customers. Those scammers who have registered their EBANK account with their scam alt are easy to find without use of API keys.
All other scammers who might have been careless enough to have an EBANK account registered with a character that is on the same account as one of their scam alts will either just transfer the scam alt to a new EVE account (costs money  , only a good idea if the EBANK account has a substantial balance) or biomass the tainted character, submit the API key for confirmation of the account and petition the biomassed character back. The second method is free and works reliably.
(edit: of course you shouldn't do that as it creates unnecessary workload for the CCP customer support - but people should know about the possibility as evil scamz0rs might abuse it to fool audits and other API checks)
Citing any concerns about scam prevention etc. as a justification for the API requirements is just stupid.
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.09.16 20:51:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Mme Pinkerton
As I have not zero, not one, but two EBANK accounts, this thread would be pretty long even if SencneS could get her wish
Yes, and you're really the only one that has actually commented on threads that I actually feel for.. You're also not really a troll. Sure we tend to disagree on some thing and it is clear sometimes we view things differently, but at least we know where each other stand. That is the reason for this reply, as our only real vocal customer that has a stake in EBANK your opinion actually matters, at least to me.
Yeah, there is ways for the scammers to get around the Name Check but as you pointed out it's got to be worth the $25 transfer fee, there is a cost associated with it. And believe me when I say the API check did have two factors and the very first being "Did your scam/default any EBANKs Funds?" That was actually the first question, when the API Name check was brought up a secondary effect was see who is active. If anything it killed two birds with one stone, or at least killed one bird for sure, and just broke the legs of the other.
I've said this before in this thread, out of everything we've done since Ricdic for the first time we have cleaned up everything, worked on making ISK, have fully working Books, complete track and accountability to every ISK in EBANK. Account cleanup had to happen eventually, it's just that time. On the 19th when EBANK makes an announcement I'm hopping everyone sees why this HAD to be done.
Out of the entire mess that is EBANK the last part to clean up is the accounts, that's pretty much it. I make no bones about it being a horrific choice, but I stand by the reasons for doing it. We're trying to move on here get the last part of the old horrid system out of the way to finally be able to give the still current, still active customers a sense even a GLIMMER of hope, that it was made right.
Now I know I'll probably get trolled because I like to dream a little and I'm not afraid of trying to make this whole thing not stink so bad but that's just the type of person I am. I want to believe all the choices we made eventually turned out to be the better choice. The damage was done a long time ago, it couldn't get any worse, this is the final hurdle, eventually we just have to jump.
Amarr for Life |
Leneerra
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2010.09.16 21:20:00 -
[66]
As long as you offer a reasonable choice to your customers I am satisfied.
Implementing bleep was a huge step towards this for me.
Allowing liquidation, against a realistic percentage, for accounts would be the final step in this process.
While I think it is wrong to zero the accounts that do not register, I do see some of the reasons for ignoring those accounts. Some people simply left eve and forgot about it, possibly never to return, for whatever reason.
I see no need to pay isk to those dead accounts.
It might even be interesting to check how long those accounts that do not register have been dormant and publish some statistics on that.
I may disagree with your choices, but you (all that remained in e-bank) took a job nobody wanted, and did it (badly ).
Putting in countless hours into a job that mostly got you complaints and little other rewards. If anything your (pig-headed?) perseverance must be admired.
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Vilgan Mazran
Aperture Harmonics
K162
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Posted - 2010.09.16 23:30:00 -
[67]
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
Wait, so who's on first?
We are... :( Ricdic already ran home and left us stranded on first, bottom of the ninth with 2 outs..
Blaming Ricdic is pretty weak considering the complete mess of the ebank deal for the last year has been 100% due to the BoD. I waver on whether or not ebank BoDs are completely dishonest, or just delusional. Regardless, I have a lot more respect for bad bobby than any of the ebank board members. At least he is competent and articulate, if a bit on the dishonest side :P
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Lucyna
Minmatar
Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.09.17 00:04:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Vilgan Mazran
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
Wait, so who's on first?
We are... :( Ricdic already ran home and left us stranded on first, bottom of the ninth with 2 outs..
Blaming Ricdic is pretty weak considering the complete mess of the ebank deal for the last year has been 100% due to the BoD. I waver on whether or not ebank BoDs are completely dishonest, or just delusional. Regardless, I have a lot more respect for bad bobby than any of the ebank board members. At least he is competent and articulate, if a bit on the dishonest side :P
Truthfully, the way I heard it, Ridic was the tipping point, after a long line of bad loans (a lot of which he made) and the mini run on the bank. I really do hate people that are like "Lol scamzorz" when they don't even know what liquidity is, or how hard the honest ones at EBANK are working to get the bank liquid once again.
Bad Bobby compared to the EBANK board... come on, how about you just wait until the announcement?
_________
Eve - for when I'm not playing minecraft ;) |
Dzil
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
OWN Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.09.17 01:42:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Lucyna
I really do hate people that are like "Lol scamzorz" when they don't even know what liquidity is, or how hard the honest ones at EBANK are working to get the bank liquid once again.
Um...
What do you think liquidity is? I thought ebank's problem was more like bankruptcy.
Retired from corp sales. Time to spend some of this on pretty explosions :) |
Britney Skye
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Posted - 2010.09.17 02:25:00 -
[70]
Hey guys! My name is Briney! But you may know me as SencneS that is to capital S's do you notice the cleverness in my main's name! There's a little cute secret in it! You just have to look at it really itsy bitsey close!
Just sound out my SsexSy name on your tongue ssSemncnessSS rAR! I'm so ssenssual. A couple sseemessterss ago I was taking buusssinesss 101 and accounting at my sscchoool and deccided I woul put my SsskillssS to usse. Sso I oppended a video game bank to prepare my sself to be a ssuper ssucessful bussiness woman.
I convinssed all theis boyzzss to give me money but I wass ssoo boorred aafter awwile and me and my ssistass were hyst like lool we dont know what were doing lettss go get a makeover, and tthen we jusst keep all the money they gave to to uss. We dont kno w if they want it back annyway or a sssilly ssscammers.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.09.17 05:03:00 -
[71]
Quote:
Regardless, I have a lot more respect for bad bobby than any of the ebank board members. At least he is competent and articulate, if a bit on the dishonest side :P
Scammers have to look professional, intelligent and polite in order to screw you.
In fact, it's easy to notice that those who don't care to embellish and push you into buying their "box" are probably the more honest ones.
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Lucyna
Minmatar
Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.09.17 05:40:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Dzil
Originally by: Lucyna
I really do hate people that are like "Lol scamzorz" when they don't even know what liquidity is, or how hard the honest ones at EBANK are working to get the bank liquid once again.
Um...
What do you think liquidity is? I thought ebank's problem was more like bankruptcy.
You are right once again, I meant insolvent. Sorry, twas early when I posted it (I think).
Hello.
_________
Eve - for when I'm not playing minecraft ;) |
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CCP Jericho
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Posted - 2010.09.17 08:19:00 -
[73]
Inappropriate post removed.
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Rasz Lin
Caldari
Racketeers
|
Posted - 2010.09.17 11:26:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Mme Pinkerton
Those scammers
Uh, EBANK is/was a scam. People that sank money in it are called victims/stupid. |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2010.09.17 14:45:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Vilgan Mazran
Blaming Ricdic is pretty weak considering the complete mess of the ebank deal for the last year has been 100% due to the BoD.
I guess it comes down to The chicken or The egg.
If Ricdic didn't scam, he wouldn't have cashed in hundred of billions of ISK for RMT and got his accounts banned, which we know for a fact also contains more hundred of billions of ISK and assets.
Without those hundreds of billions of ISK lost due to Ricdic's RMT activities EBANK would still be in debt that's pretty much a given, but I can imagine one scenario.
Ricdic and Hexxx, the CEO and Chairman at that time would have caste a vote to liquidate and close out EBANK. Now Mr.H Would have made off with 100B of fabricated funds but lets assume an auditor on final closure found that.
Ricdic claimed 250B ISK was sold, Yet he also claimed $7000 was sold, at $16 per Billion. (Confirmation by MSN Logs in which he said) So which one is true? 437.5B Which is $7,000 / $16, or the claimed 250B? Well in his interview he changed it to $5000, which would make it 312.5B. We know for a fact, one of his Characters which was banned had 50B ISK Liquid in it. There was also another 20-30B in other characters on the accounts that where banned. So if we average what he claimed, 333.3B + 50 + 25 = 418B Liquid ISK.
That's just ISK, that's not including the PLEX manipulation attempt in which there was LOTS of PLEXes locked up, any materials, POSes, in alliances which EBANK had to struggle to get even a very very small part of the value of eventually scammed out, Mr. H's near 100B ISK fraud. EBANK at the time of the scam was able to pool together near 500B ISK at the drop of a hat, putting it's total liquid ISK available at over 1 Trillion. That's just ISK, 5 Titan BPOs, Tech II BPOs and what we could get hands on, the T1 BPOs alone come to over 40B ISK. I expect if Ricdic hadn't scammed EBANK's NAV would be in and around 1.5 Trillion. That's not including the tens of billions in loans that did get paid back after Ricdic scammed. Also not including the little venture corps that where about 50B, there was a couple of those.
No doubt EBANK had a shortage of value, the defaulted KIA loan was big, since then additional loans have been written off and defaulted. So all up I'd put EBANK's NAV at 1.7B really rough estimate because I'm guessing and theorizing as to how much Ricdic had in assets. So I could be wrong, but I'm pretty confident about the amount of ISK EBANK had at the time. So about 1.7 Trillion vs 2.2 Trillion EBANK had at the time, means it was 500B debt.
Now I totally believe EBANK was used as an ISK Laundering service, at that time Unholy Rage took place banning thousands of accounts. We have no idea how many or how much ISK is locked away in EBANK because of laundering.
Ricdic, Hexxx, I would have for sure, Selene (Who was leaving anyway) LVV (Who was seeking CCP Employement) 5 of the 7 directors would have voted to liquidate and pay our marginal withdrawals. Would have simply liquidated assets, issued people their part of the remaining ISK. This would have dumped billions into dead, inactive, or banned accounts.
However, since Ricdic DID do what he did, EBANK was left with.. 650B ISK. from 1.7 Trillion to 650B all because of Ricdic scamming.
So it comes down to "The chicken or The egg", The Current BOD wouldn't exist, the choices it made wouldn't have happened, and people would be looking at a 75% account balance, instead of a %30. Sorry, Ricdic is to blame for a LOT of the reasons EBANK is in this mess. EBANK wouldn't exist without Ricdic no doubt, but he is also the primary reason it's in this mess. 
Amarr for Life |
Belloche
Caldari
Heaven's Avatars
Without Remorse.
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Posted - 2010.09.17 16:10:00 -
[76]
Are you waiting for the 19th of September to make the official announcement about EBANK because its international talk like a pirate day?
Just wondering what is so special about the 19th and having to wait until then. When I said something out loud about that date the wife told me that day is talk like a pirate day. She knew because its the day after her bday. Just wondering.....
Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Lucyna
Minmatar
Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.09.17 16:11:00 -
[77]
Originally by: SencneS
people would be looking at a 75% account balance, instead of a %30
Is this an official statement regarding the future availability of our frozen account funds?
_________
Eve - for when I'm not playing minecraft ;) |
EBANK SencneS
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
|
Posted - 2010.09.17 16:23:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Lucyna
Originally by: SencneS
people would be looking at a 75% account balance, instead of a %30
Is this an official statement regarding the future availability of our frozen account funds?
Notice the name this is posted with.
No, it is not.
The 75% account balance was if Ricdic didn't scam. The %30 was the assumed number after Ray had finished the audit. The 75% was based off extreme rough guesses of asset value of assets unconfirmed locked away by Ricdic accounts being banned, and the amount of liquid ISK We had available at that time, and was confirmed by latest API Updates.
The 30% is based on Asset Value and ISK available Ray had valued EBANK back after Ricdic had scammed.
Talk like a Pirate day, I actually had no idea it was that day, but now that you say that. I'm going to suggest Ray make the announcement in pirate like speak. yarrr 
SencneS
Board of Directors EBANK |
Lucyna
Minmatar
Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises
|
Posted - 2010.09.17 16:26:00 -
[79]
Originally by: EBANK SencneS
Originally by: Lucyna
Originally by: SencneS
people would be looking at a 75% account balance, instead of a %30
Is this an official statement regarding the future availability of our frozen account funds?
Notice the name this is posted with.
No, it is not.
Alrighty then.
I better warm up my "Yarring" muscles for the fateful 19th.
_________
Eve - for when I'm not playing minecraft ;) |
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
|
Posted - 2010.09.17 16:32:00 -
[80]
Stop messaging me to ask questions, I don't give a stuff about your personal circumstances. Authenticate your account and await further instructions like the rest of the lemmings, k? Any messages sent to me regarding lolbank are being ignored, stop thinking that you're special and deserve a personal response.
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Eve Trollin
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Posted - 2010.09.17 17:46:00 -
[81]
I know two people that convo'd Ray and they got 100% of their balance back. It seems this is the way to go. Quick, easy, and you get all of your isk. |
Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.09.17 21:05:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Belloche
Are you waiting for the 19th of September to make the official announcement about EBANK because its international talk like a pirate day?
Dear god, I never even thought of that. ITLAPD is my most favorite non-holiday holiday.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.18 03:52:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Belloche
Are you waiting for the 19th of September to make the official announcement about EBANK because its international talk like a pirate day?
Dear god, I never even thought of that. ITLAPD is my most favorite non-holiday holiday.
/shrugs
The people who did not realise that are the kind of people who did not get what the parot ment when he kept saying "12 and a half percent"
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Dasola
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.18 11:10:00 -
[84]
Personally its stealing if you just writeoff those inactive accounts? Why, becouse your bank, bank dont do that.
And since they claim to be still running a bank, so how about opening withdrawals right now then? yes you dont get 100% of your isk but im sure 30% is better then nothing. Thats customers choise.
Right now this Ebank thing looks like massive scam. They brake deadlines, promises and even their original tos. Yes new tos is not valid until original one is honored fully.
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Business Classy
Business Class Investments
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Posted - 2010.09.18 12:42:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Steve Thomas
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Belloche
Are you waiting for the 19th of September to make the official announcement about EBANK because its international talk like a pirate day?
Dear god, I never even thought of that. ITLAPD is my most favorite non-holiday holiday.
/shrugs
The people who did not realise that are the kind of people who did not get what the parot ment when he kept saying "12 and a half percent"
I honestly went almost the entire book without realising that, felt pretty stupid towards the end >.<
Still, at least I got the Selachii and the Venturi :D
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Allvan Harl
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Posted - 2010.09.19 04:18:00 -
[86]
Ray and all, thanks for finally getting around to this. Cutting the dead weight away has been long overdue.
As for all the folks complaining about these people who supposedly parked their money in EBANK while they took a break from the game, or those who don't want to turn over their API key, sounds like carebear tears to me. And that's coming from a.....wait for it......you guessed it......someone who is pretty much a carebear.
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Kayleigh Lothian
Minmatar
KIA Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.09.19 10:53:00 -
[87]
Ok, so I authed my account the last time you screamed, the funny thing is that I can not update my profile now because your lovely input form removes the dot between my domain and country in my e-mail address. It will not even allow me to remove the e-mail address.
Is this a way to hinder some people to re-auth or just a bloody bug noone bothering with?
----------------------
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Vilgan Mazran
Aperture Harmonics
K162
|
Posted - 2010.09.19 11:19:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
Regardless, I have a lot more respect for bad bobby than any of the ebank board members. At least he is competent and articulate, if a bit on the dishonest side :P
Scammers have to look professional, intelligent and polite in order to screw you.
The ability to appear professional, intelligent, and competent is not limited to scammers. If the ebank board had shown a bit more competence, I doubt there would be anywhere near the amount of fuss about what has gone on. Fortunately, I hear convo'ing and mailing Ray in game will get you all the isk back if you are persistent. Obviously he will deny this on the forums for PR reasons though.
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Johnny Ringo
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2010.09.19 17:04:00 -
[89]
It's the 19th....
<waiting expectantly for the promised announcement...>
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
|
Posted - 2010.09.19 17:09:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Johnny Ringo
<waiting expectantly for the promised announcement...>
Clearly you don't know how this works. I make an empty promise and set an unrealistic timeframe, you get your hopes up and I then dash them by not fulfilling any of my promises.
Let's skip straight to the part where I ask how you're not yet conditioned to this behavioural pattern?
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Johnny Ringo
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2010.09.19 17:32:00 -
[91]
Optimism is well defined as the triumph of hope over experience.
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Lecherito
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Posted - 2010.09.19 17:38:00 -
[92]
Rofl,
Just logged into my ebank account for the first time in over a year. If memory serves, I left a hundred thousand ISK there for giggles. I'm hoping it's a consequence of my supreme sleep deprivation, but do you truly prevent people from seeing their account balance until *after* they have "verified" their information?? Am I the only one to think that delves into a new existence of unacceptability?
-L
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Lecherito
|
Posted - 2010.09.19 17:41:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Lecherito on 19/09/2010 17:42:46
Edited by: Lecherito on 19/09/2010 17:41:37
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Johnny Ringo
<waiting expectantly for the promised announcement...>
Clearly you don't know how this works. I make an empty promise and set an unrealistic timeframe, you get your hopes up and I then dash them by not fulfilling any of my promises.
Let's skip straight to the part where I ask how you're not yet conditioned to this behavioural pattern?
Stop messaging me to ask questions, I don't give a stuff about your personal circumstances. Authenticate your account and await further instructions like the rest of the lemmings, k? Any messages sent to me regarding lolbank are being ignored, stop thinking that you're special and deserve a personal response.
Ray, you are straight minge. Can we please, as a body deserving far better than what this supreme douche gives us, finally declare Ebank the longest/largest scam in the history of EvE, and be done with it?
-L
*edited for another lovely quotation*
|
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
|
Posted - 2010.09.19 17:58:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Lecherito
Ray, you are straight minge.
Why are you so mean to me, L? Where's the love, bruv?
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Lienzo
Minmatar
Amanuensis
|
Posted - 2010.09.20 23:31:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Lienzo on 20/09/2010 23:32:00
Howdy.
When I tried registering limited API through bleep, I got an error message that says it requires all the characters on an account to reregister. Why do you want this? Bleep keys only last a week by default anyway. Character names don't expire, nor does information for OOG services travel with traded characters.
That certainly wasn't in the TOS first issued to EBank customers the first go round.
-------------------------------------------
"I have not been podded and run out of isk. I am merely camping my hangar." |
Yendor Widdershins
Gallente
University of Caille
|
Posted - 2010.09.21 00:45:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Yendor Widdershins
Originally by: Ray McCormack
A subsequent announcement will be made on the 19th of Septemeber.
Any one starting a pool on when the actual announcement will be? I'll take October 22nd for the "We're almost ready to make an announcement" announcement.
Kudos for making the post on time
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1386720
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Trebor Whettam
|
Posted - 2010.09.21 01:37:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
Selective scamming is still theft. It doesn't matter if Ray won't keep the money for himself - at best he is stealing from customers out of misguided good intentions (but since he has never actually articulated why he thinks stealing from customers is ncessary or justifiable its hard to give him too much credit for good intentions).
I don't get your point.
I am not defending their actions, just explaining why they do them and how doing different would probably end up without stealing BUT with an even worse evil, complete loss for everyone.
I am an external observer, don't try to put me along with them, not for a single instant.
This is live realpolitique in action, Ray can be labelled as you prefer but he is doing what he's been hired for and if there's anyone able to pull this stunt it's him.
That's all what I felt like to say.
I don't need to repeat my own opinion about the whole mess in every EBANK thread, I hope.
Quote:
At worst he is stealing from customers in order to burnish the very reputation that you are now complimenting him on.
He's dutifully doing an activity none else would take.
I am sort of emphatizing with him here, because despite their operation is vastly NOT what I'd have done and he's not going to be my next fiancee at all doing like that, he's still sharing a sh!t job like me, where at best you are considered useless, at worse a rep monger.
He'll be spent and damned regardless of any outcome, regardless of any choice. He chose to be involved though.
Quote:
what matters is that a lot of people seem to have an ethical blindspot that allows them to excuse such actions WHEN it is done by the right people
There's no blindspot, there's an easy consideration:
- Have them honestly declare how after Ricdic's scam and the known other issues, they declare default, close down and every single despositor loses 80%+ of his money (assuming 20% remains to share).
- Have them make a bad face and get the depositors able to take out more than the 20% they'd otherwise would be able to take.
We are before a rightful approach that will lead to ruin or a pragmatic approach that will save something for someone.
Life is a b!tch, they felt that hard choices are made (read again: T H E Y felt).
I won't share their minset nor their ideas but I can see why they are choosing to do the latter. And yes, not for a single instant I believe it's done out of pure honest desire to help the depositors but to restore the Big Institution with all what it means.
Agreed. For the life of me, I can't figure out why Ray decided to get involved in this mess. Many here seem to have forgotten (or never known) that Ray was very critical of E-bank prior to the collapse. Maybe some people need to read [url=http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=986711]this thread[/url].
Obviously people can be free to disagree with the things that Ray says and does, but to call him a scammer is totally off-base. He didn't cause the problem; he warned against it. He was hired on to help fix the mess after the fact.
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Lygos
Amarr
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.09.21 02:52:00 -
[98]
There's only one thing I have ever really wanted to see from banks, and that is a tie in to OOG sales and accounting management. The obvious profit angle in that margin credit lending.
Personally, I wouldn't mind having millions or billions tied up as electronic internet spacebucks at a bank that only had a tiny fraction of the isk reserve on hand. If we had many banks, then risk would be even more distributed.
But a bank is useless without a reason for that bank. Adding just a tiny bit of sugar to the pot in the form of interest bearing accounts shows just how starving this community is for player-led development. What I would love to see are OOG malls for both goods and services, while still recognizing that all in-game bits are property of CCP of course. One step further than that are accounting tools that CCP is disinterested in providing. For example, scheduled and repeating payments tools. Example: payroll. This applies equally well to combat pilots as it does to renters.
I care less about ever seeing the money I put into a bank than I do about having a good time. Ideally, moving into credit markets, I should never even need to be interested in withdrawals if I remain diversified. Just dump some cash with a space teller bot, and then go to Nagamazon who have partnered with one or more banks.
Then again, I may not understand the contemporary CCP like I understood the one that used to inspire me eight years ago. That's fine though.
Hope Ricdic's kid is OK. RL > internet space kredits.
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Articio > Well, at least I don't have to grind back security status.
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