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Dear UI Devs... What were you thinking?

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ShadowandLight Amarr Doom Guard Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.09.07 12:27:00 - [1] Edited by: ShadowandLight on 07/09/2010 12:33:22 There are things in the UI that really annoy the **** out of me. I realize that its hard to balance making the UI easily to manage while packing it full of features. That being said, among other things in the UI that drive me up the wall Why is "Trash it" and "Make Active" next to each other?!? Why would you put 2 commands that have the entirely OPPOSITE effect of one another NEXT to each other? What motivation would cause you to do that other then some sadistic "lets hope the player kills their 2b faction fitted ship by accidents lolroflwtfbbq " I must admit, I am not the most forgiving pilot in EVE regarding CCP's thinking, but jeez man what is going on here. Disclaimer: I have not made the mistake yet of killing a ship by accident... yet... But it will happen one day I am sure And yes this I realize its been like this for years, but it irked me today.... so whatever ------- "The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1 Hoist the Colors!
Swiftgaze Elysium Trading Company	Posted - 2010.09.07 12:34:00 - [2] They weren't thinking at all. Or maybe "hahaha we really managed to pretend we can code a GUI and the manager didn't notice XDDDD" Also, threads of this nature usually end up in Features and Ideas, as a confession of failure. Now and in the future.
OneTimeAt BannedSpank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.09.07 12:34:00 - [3] Great post from a great poster. This is a new discovery and no one has ever thought to discuss it yet. ~
Jacob Holland Gallente Weyland-Vulcan Industries	Posted - 2010.09.07 12:34:00 - [4] What would you put it next to? The Trash It option has to go next to something after all, and whether it's show info or change name or whatever else it might be then the risk of errors exists. -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
Ban Doga	Posted - 2010.09.07 12:58:00 - [5] Originally by: Jacob Holland What would you put it next to? The Trash It option has to go next to something after all, and whether it's show info or change name or whatever else it might be then the risk of errors exists. You should start "Jacob Holland's Marvelous School of Design". Brilliant reasoning there...
Ovella	Posted - 2010.09.07 13:15:00 - [6] Originally by: Jacob Holland What would you put it next to? /me votes for undock button on neocom
Antihrist Pripravnik 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.09.07 13:17:00 - [7] Originally by: Jacob Holland What would you put it next to? The Trash It option has to go next to something after all, and whether it's show info or change name or whatever else it might be then the risk of errors exists. Two separators - one above, one below.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.07 13:24:00 - [8] Originally by: Jacob Holland What would you put it next to? Something else that is also, but not as, destructive ù Reprocess, probably. Before that, repackage. Before that a horizontal spacer. This creates the "reduce/destruct" category of item options. Put the most destructive at the bottom, where it's hardest to reach. The category before that? "Get rid of": show market info, sell, contract. àspacerà Before that, "Construct/Use": Activate, assemble, set name, open fitting screen (why isn't this in the menu?), open cargo, open drone hold, open [whatever] hold. And the ubiquitous "Show info" at the top. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Serpents smile	Posted - 2010.09.07 13:27:00 - [9] Someone please dig up the design Entity made (I haven't got a clue where to look) but that was simply just the way it should be.
Rexthor Hammerfists Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.09.07 13:34:00 - [10] One of my favourite GUI bloopers is that for a titan or blackops ship the "Bridge to" and "Jump to" option are next to each other. There have been plenty incidents where titan pilots found themselfes in the middle of hostile fleets with their own support fleet lightyears away. -
Fujiko MaXjolt Caldari Templar Republic	Posted - 2010.09.07 13:46:00 - [11] Well, a simple fix to your problem could be to make the trash it like the leave fleet - that is, have a sub-item called "confirm" or something...
Alyth Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.09.07 13:55:00 - [12] Originally by: Fujiko MaXjolt Well, a simple fix to your problem could be to make the trash it like the leave fleet - that is, have a sub-item called "confirm" or something... There already is, I went to trash something earlier and got a confirmation box. Just have to turn it's warning back on if it's been disabled.
Letrange Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2010.09.07 14:10:00 - [13] Do not get me started on the corp interface... fumes
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2010.09.07 14:27:00 - [14] Like most things brought up on these forums, this has: 1-Been raised in the assembly hall 2-Passed 3-Taken to the CSM 4-Passed 5-Taken to CCP 6-Ignored in favour of "Pervs in stations" IIRC it was put forward by the CSM in 2008 (2 years ago) and with 16-20 months left before they MIGHT devote resorces to EvE with a but of luck we can get a menu tweak actioned in 5 years. THE ENTITY MENU REDESIGN SKUNK (o)
Htrag The Carebear Stare Hydroponic Zone	Posted - 2010.09.07 14:36:00 - [15] I click Trash by accident fairly regularly when switching ships, then click cancel and move on. Its just "one of those things" we deal with. You know multiple clicks to do one thing, cascading menus that are never in the same place twice, etc.
Serpents smile	Posted - 2010.09.07 14:46:00 - [16] Originally by: Le Skunk THE ENTITY MENU REDESIGN SKUNK Thank you.
Swiftgaze Elysium Trading Company	Posted - 2010.09.07 14:53:00 - [17] Originally by: Letrange Do not get me started on the corp interface... fumes Corp interface at least enables you to use all the functions that the corporation management offers you. Even though they are very limited. Try the market, that's where the GUI stops you from doing the things that you're meant to be able to do.
Kidain Gallente Rule of Five	Posted - 2010.09.07 15:11:00 - [18] Edited by: Kidain on 07/09/2010 15:11:47 whilst I understand the whole "not at the minute but we have hired people" stance this is THE reason EVE pushes more people away than it should. I have had so many friends and relatives look at me playing and say: "Looks nice but looks like hard work controlling that". And it really is. Just the simple act of finding an agent is so long winded and laborious to be embarrassing when you actually stop and think of the number of clicks and sub menus that are involved. They need to sit down and start again OR let the community code some? Lets face it how many people play with the standard UI (GUI) in World of Warcraft or Warhammer? Why not let you change the graphical look and layout like there? -------------------------------------- In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion. - Douglas Adams
Lonzo Kincaid Black Bands	Posted - 2010.09.07 15:12:00 - [19] Originally by: OneTimeAt BannedSpank Great post from a great poster. This is a new discovery and no one has ever thought to discuss it yet. Implying mentioning something once or it being blatantly obvious that it's broken is enough to get it fixed by CCP. ---------------------- Hope that they'll make this game fun again is the only reason i still play.
OneTimeAt BannedSpank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.09.07 15:22:00 - [20] Originally by: Lonzo Kincaid Originally by: OneTimeAt BannedSpank Great post from a great poster. This is a new discovery and no one has ever thought to discuss it yet. Implying mentioning something once or it being blatantly obvious that it's broken is enough to get it fixed by CCP. It's been mentioned far more than once before. ~
Lonzo Kincaid Black Bands	Posted - 2010.09.07 15:25:00 - [21] Originally by: OneTimeAt BannedSpank Originally by: Lonzo Kincaid Originally by: OneTimeAt BannedSpank Great post from a great poster. This is a new discovery and no one has ever thought to discuss it yet. Implying mentioning something once or it being blatantly obvious that it's broken is enough to get it fixed by CCP. It's been mentioned far more than once before. That was my point exactly. ---------------------- Hope that they'll make this game fun again is the only reason i still play.
Hawk TT Caldari Bulgarian Experienced Crackers Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.09.07 15:42:00 - [22] Edited by: Hawk TT on 07/09/2010 15:42:34 It's already in the CSM agenda: UI Improvements, Item #1 & Item #2, Low Hanging Fruit: EVElopedia - CSM - Items in Process The table is sorted by "Score" but you could use Ctrl+F and search for "Trash" ;-) Still waiting for input from CCP... ___________________________________ Science & Diplomacy Manager @ BECKS Circle-of-Two
Razzor Death Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.09.07 15:47:00 - [23] Originally by: ShadowandLight I JUST TRASHED MY ***ING CARRIER happens to the best of us. -------------------------------------------------- I'm posting in your thread and I didn't even read the OP v0v*
Ashira Twilight	Posted - 2010.09.07 15:50:00 - [24] I for one, am glad they at least gave us the repair quote option.
Aessoroz	Posted - 2010.09.07 15:53:00 - [25] So...you ignored the trash it confirmation and deleted your faction fit cnr?
Bad Princess Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.07 16:11:00 - [26] Originally by: ShadowandLight .........Why is "Trash it" and "Make Active" next to each other?!?.......... Men have been asking God a similar question about the female form. "Why is the snack bar so close to the outhouse?"
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.07 16:30:00 - [27] Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 07/09/2010 16:30:17 Originally by: Bad Princess Originally by: ShadowandLight .........Why is "Trash it" and "Make Active" next to each other?!?.......... Men have been asking God a similar question about the female form. "Why is the snack bar so close to the outhouse?" And yet people still snack in the outhouse! -- Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist
Awesome Possum Gallente Isk Relocation Services Stratagem.	Posted - 2010.09.07 17:00:00 - [28] If you're not eating your burritos on the toilet, you're doing it wrong. They should add a submenu to "trash it" or just take "trash it" off the menu entirely and add an actual "Trash bin" to our in-station screen. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
Amerilia	Posted - 2010.09.07 17:06:00 - [29] Originally by: Jacob Holland What would you put it next to? The Trash It option has to go next to something after all, and whether it's show info or change name or whatever else it might be then the risk of errors exists. You simply put the less used things into a "more" submenu... i have seen this in some games, that way you need to open another submenu for the delete stuff.
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp Grenouilles Volantes	Posted - 2010.09.07 17:35:00 - [30] Edited by: Sky Marshal on 07/09/2010 17:45:09 It is not the only UI problem actually, like the one/two pixels to overload a specific module. But it is not enough. They already want to make the UI more annoying, as it is now on Singularity. CCP has a problem with thesaurus. So what were they thinking ? Simple : When we ask for improvements, they understand declination. When we want best, they understand worse. Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist
Mr M Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2010.09.07 17:45:00 - [31] You are about to throw away one unit of Ragnarok. Are you absolutely sure you want to do this? \|Yes\| \|No\| I'd click the No button Eve Tribune\|EVEgeek\|Firebrand Radio
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.07 18:20:00 - [32] Originally by: Mr M You are about to to post in a blatant troll thread. Are you absolutely sure you want to do this? \|Yes\| \|No\| I'd click the No button When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me.
Swiftgaze Elysium Trading Company	Posted - 2010.09.07 20:00:00 - [33] Edited by: Swiftgaze on 07/09/2010 20:00:39 Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Mr M You are about to to post in a blatant troll thread. Are you absolutely sure you want to do this? \|Yes\| \|No\| I'd click the No button Be careful, it's right next to the Yes button. And no, I'm not kidding. That difference of 5 pixels isn't suitable to defend the UI.
Opertone Caldari Metalworks Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.09.07 20:01:00 - [34] Originally by: ShadowandLight Edited by: ShadowandLight on 07/09/2010 14:42:39 Edited by: ShadowandLight on 07/09/2010 12:33:22 There are things in the UI that really annoy the **** out of me. I realize that its hard to balance making the UI easily to manage while packing it full of features. That being said, among other things in the UI that drive me up the wall Why is "Trash it" and "Make Active" next to each other?!? Why would you put 2 commands that have the entirely OPPOSITE effect of one another NEXT to each other? What motivation would cause you to do that other then some sadistic "lets hope the player kills their 2b faction fitted ship by accidents lolroflwtfbbq " I must admit, I am not the most forgiving pilot in EVE regarding CCP's thinking, but jeez man what is going on here. Disclaimer: I have not made the mistake yet of killing a ship by accident... yet... But it will happen one day I am sure And yes this I realize its been like this for years, but it irked me today.... so whatever TY El Skunk for posting a menu that makes sense http://home.wanadoo.nl/ntt/menudesign101.png I petitioned them about this several times... but guess they rank it by importance, or the way hamsters use it based on lifetime statistics.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2010.09.07 22:05:00 - [35] Simplest fix....hotkey one or the other or both....make active or trash it......gasp that would take what? All of 5 minutes to code?
Mister Swift	Posted - 2010.09.08 05:45:00 - [36] Maybe we should donate some reading material to CCP?
Phantom Slave Universal Pest Exterminators	Posted - 2010.09.08 07:18:00 - [37] I actually use a nice little workaround to keep myself from trashing my ships. Click and drag your ship icon out of the window and into your open hangar. Instant ship change without the use of the menu and without the chance of a mis-click on a poorly ordered menu.
Jita Alt666	Posted - 2010.09.08 07:25:00 - [38] CCP have added menu functionality to their list of possible future fixes. Because it is a real potentially useful feature expect it to be broken further before being fixed.
Aera Aiana Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.08 07:47:00 - [39] Quote: Dear UI Devs... What were you thinking? Nothing. Had they hired 10 random people without ever checking their CVs, at least 5 of them would have been able to come up with a better UI than the garbage they gave us. Stuff like asking people if they really want to buy items below market average but not asking them if they really want to cancel an order... I just wonder how much out of touch you have to be with the content you are developing for something like that to happen. Oh look, player just updated her 300M ISK order by 0.01 ISK, let's ask her if she really really wants to do that... Not to mention their fetish for nested context menus.... -
Kestrix	Posted - 2010.09.08 09:14:00 - [40] I'm sure their is not a jet fighter out their that has an eject button right next to the start button. Continueing this line of thought how hard would it be to give the command 'trash it' and other destructive commands a menu all of thier own? This is a lack of thought and or lazyness on behalf of the original programers.
Musical Fist Gallente NAP Coalition	Posted - 2010.09.08 10:50:00 - [41] Originally by: ShadowandLight Edited by: ShadowandLight on 07/09/2010 14:42:39 Edited by: ShadowandLight on 07/09/2010 12:33:22 There are things in the UI that really annoy the ** out of me. I realize that its hard to balance making the UI easily to manage while packing it full of features. That being said, among other things in the UI that drive me up the wall Why is "Trash it" and "Make Active" next to each other?!? Why would you put 2 commands that have the entirely OPPOSITE effect of one another NEXT to each other? What motivation would cause you to do that other then some sadistic "lets hope the player kills their 2b faction fitted ship by accidents lolroflwtfbbq " I must admit, I am not the most forgiving pilot in EVE regarding CCP's thinking, but jeez man what is going on here. Disclaimer: I have not made the mistake yet of killing a ship by accident... yet... But it will happen one day I am sure And yes this I realize its been like this for years, but it irked me today.... so whatever TY El Skunk for posting a menu that makes sense http://home.wanadoo.nl/ntt/menudesign101.png Originally by:** NC's answer to everything Aww so just because you cant handle something you QQ to CCP wanting them to change it -- Recruitment now open!!
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.09.08 11:08:00 - [42] Originally by: Jita Alt666 CCP have added menu functionality to their list of possible future fixes. Because it is a real potentially useful feature expect it to be broken further before being fixed. You cry about comprehension but (intentionally) confuse the words "broken" and "inconvenient". In all seriousness, grow up. When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me.
Judas Scammer	Posted - 2010.09.08 12:03:00 - [43] Edited by: Judas Scammer on 08/09/2010 12:04:12 Originally by: Mister Swift Maybe we should donate some reading material to CCP? Haha Eve UI is just like that teapot on the cover. Also sometimes the UI is also lagging because of server lag(?) so it increases the chance of misclick.
Zongris	Posted - 2010.09.08 13:15:00 - [44] I agree that some stuff could be laid out a little better. Overall, though, I really like the EVE interface. I think some commonly-used stuff (like "make active") should be highlighted in some way. It'd also be great if you could mark stations, so they would appear green or whatever in your overview.
Omenis	Posted - 2010.09.08 20:04:00 - [45] What were the UI devs thinking? To be fair, only they can answer that. But since I'm not fair and also happen to be eerily psychic, I can speak for them, verbatim: The lead UI developers for EVE Online stir restlessly amidst piles of empty Jolt cola cans and candy bar wrappers in a darkened room lit only by the glow of several monitors. UI Dev #1: So, um, what sort of interface style should we use for this new project? UI Dev #2: Well, we want it to be avant garde and spacey, so we need to pick something real cutting-edge, like dBASE IV. UI Dev #1: dBASE IV is pretty sexy, I can't deny, but users might find it hard to adapt to. And you know we've been told over and over again to keep the learning curve as easy as possible. How about something more mainstream, like Lotus 1-2-3? UI Dev #2: Hmm. Lotus. Does have a lot of users, and the spreadsheet format allows us to pack a lot of complex data into small, hard-to-read places. I like it. But aren't the hotkeys a bit too easy to remember for Lotus? UI Dev #1: Ha! You got me there. We need something obscure enough to keep people from accidentally hitting the right hotkeys in combat. Hey, I know! UI Dev #2: What? WHAT?!? Don't hold out on me bro. UI Dev #1: WORDPERFECT!!! UI Dev #2: WOOT!!! The UI devs then dance and cackle with glee, while offering praise and human sacrifices to their dark, horned god. At last, the truth can be told! Your wayward ways displease me.
Lost Greybeard	Posted - 2010.09.08 20:44:00 - [46] Disable the confirmation dialog boxes for most things (I don't need a confirm/deny box for contract cancellation, for instance), but leave them for the things that can cause permanent loss done incorrectly. That way, when a dialog box pops up, you pay attention.
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2010.09.08 20:53:00 - [47] Originally by: Le Skunk THE ENTITY MENU REDESIGN Get rid of all right-clicking. That single flaw is the most annoying part of the entire UI. That and you choose the menu item by pointing to it with the mouse and letting go of the button. Any and all actions should be performed by a button press, never a button release. That mechanic does not merely make people prone to error, it guarantees error. It's a terrible design and the major reason EVE is called Excel in Space by detractors. -- Sent from my douchePhone using Look@MEEEEE!
Kraven90	Posted - 2010.09.08 21:44:00 - [48] how funny, just today i bought myself a shiny Vexor then i was going to assamble it, but my cursor slipped on "Trash This", "oh **** wtf am i doing" i sayd, then trying to press NO i pressed Yes and i was like: O_O I almost wanted to smash my pc because i spent half of my ISK on that ship (yes i'm a poor newbie) sooo yeah they should abolutely do something about the small UI and close buttons. next time i'll move my mouse veeeery slow, just in case, learn from my mistake! LOL
Skydell Caldari Morrigna Order	Posted - 2010.09.08 21:48:00 - [49] Screen res on new computers start at 1024 X 768, they don't end with it. 7 years ago I am sure the 2 pixel sliver of option was nice design work. Maybe its time to redo that the way you redid the fittings screen?
Stick Cult	Posted - 2010.09.08 21:50:00 - [50] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Le Skunk THE ENTITY MENU REDESIGN Get rid of all right-clicking. That single flaw is the most annoying part of the entire UI. That and you choose the menu item by pointing to it with the mouse and letting go of the button. Any and all actions should be performed by a button press, never a button release. That mechanic does not merely make people prone to error, it guarantees error. It's a terrible design and the major reason EVE is called Excel in Space by detractors. I've always chosen the menu item by right clicking, letting go, moving to the item, and clicking it. Also, call me crazy, I like the right click menu. Ok, maybe not in love with it, but it's better than alternatives. It works ~well~, I don't care if something can look shinier than it and do the job worse. That being said, MOVE THE **ING MODIFY AND CANCEL ORDERS BUTTON AWAY FROM EACHOTHER!!! (or add a yes/no dialog to cancel orders) Originally by:** CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2010.09.08 23:24:00 - [51] Check out radial menus. Those work really well in games. -- Sent from my douchePhone using Look@MEEEEE!

CCP Jericho	Posted - 2010.09.09 08:21:00 - [52] Moved from EVE General Discussion to Features and Ideas Discussion.


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