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How to make a profit from mining in nullsec without transporting?

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fdk trade State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.07.29 06:06:00 - [1] - Quote We have a 20 people team mining with prefect booster and in a safe place.But there are two problems: 1.We dont have enough transports to deliver high-end minerals to high sec. 2.Thus we are in ISK crisis : no ore trade and no income,only high-end minerals. If mining low-end minerals,we have to cut down miner's income.None of us expect that. Anyone has any ideas? Thank you with all my heart.
Abdiel Kavash Paladin Order Fidelas Constans 763	Posted - 2012.07.29 06:24:00 - [2] - Quote Pair up with your alliance's JF pilots, split the profits.
fdk trade State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.07.29 06:33:00 - [3] - Quote Abdiel Kavash wrote: Pair up with your alliance's JF pilots, split the profits. Thank you for reply. You mean we better insist on mining high-end?
Abdiel Kavash Paladin Order Fidelas Constans 763	Posted - 2012.07.29 06:37:00 - [4] - Quote fdk trade wrote: Abdiel Kavash wrote: Pair up with your alliance's JF pilots, split the profits. Thank you for reply. You mean we better insist on mining high-end? I don't know anything about mining, I can't give you a qualified answer. I know quite a bit about nullsec logistics, and I understood your question as asking about moving minerals from nullsec to highsec to sell. I believe I have answered that. Which particular ore is the most profitable to mine depends on market prices, your JF pricing scheme, method of mineral compression used and the cost of it, etc.
Emma Royd Maddled Gommerils 122	Posted - 2012.07.29 06:41:00 - [5] - Quote Seriously? What did you expect in nullsec, the Mineral Fairies would magically transport your minerals to empire for you? You have a few choices depending on your situation. Build stuff and sell it on the local market for profit, but that takes time, access to factory slots, and blueprints up there, along with management. Does any other corp in the area build stuff? Ask them if they'll buy the minerals, I know when I used to be in nullsec, the corp I was in had a buy back program and it was normally jita -10(ish)% Get friendly with the Jump Freighter Pilots as Abdiel says, and get them to move it down to empire for you, it'll cost you fuel and maybe some extra isk. Read up about mineral compression, ie build modules that take up less space than the minerals they're build from, there's no one module that is perfect, it depends on the minerals you've got. Try looking at http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/compression/ I used to have a spreadsheet which gave me the mineral volume compared to the volume of the compressed ore, but I can't find it, but look at making one, it's easy enough to do.
Droxlyn TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate 94	Posted - 2012.07.29 06:56:00 - [6] - Quote Read this chart and understand it: http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore If you aren't mining Ark, everything is nearly tied. Low-ends and high-ends are equally valuable. Perfect Orca+Perfect Hulk (+3% implant) yields about 160k m3/hour of ore Ark is 44m/hour Scordite and Bistot are both 34m/hour or so. Plagioclase is 33m/hour. The next 5 are about 30m/hour Kernite and Crokite are the lowest reasonable ones at 27m/h and 29m/h. Omber, Gneiss, and Spodumain should be avoided at about 15m/h each. Mercoxit is at about 34m/h for the Skiff pilot. So, really, you aren't losing out much by mining the "low ends" unless you pick Omber, Gneiss, or Spodumain. Good luck! Drox
fdk trade State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.07.29 07:01:00 - [7] - Quote Abdiel Kavash wrote: fdk trade wrote: Abdiel Kavash wrote: Pair up with your alliance's JF pilots, split the profits. Thank you for reply. You mean we better insist on mining high-end? I don't know anything about mining, I can't give you a qualified answer. I know quite a bit about nullsec logistics, and I understood your question as asking about moving minerals from nullsec to highsec to sell. I believe I have answered that. Which particular ore is the most profitable to mine depends on market prices, your JF pricing scheme, method of mineral compression used and the cost of it, etc. Almost as you said.I want to find the best way to make a profit via mining team.
fdk trade State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.07.29 07:13:00 - [8] - Quote Emma Royd wrote: Seriously? What did you expect in nullsec, the Mineral Fairies would magically transport your minerals to empire for you? You have a few choices depending on your situation. Build stuff and sell it on the local market for profit, but that takes time, access to factory slots, and blueprints up there, along with management. Does any other corp in the area build stuff? Ask them if they'll buy the minerals, I know when I used to be in nullsec, the corp I was in had a buy back program and it was normally jita -10(ish)% Get friendly with the Jump Freighter Pilots as Abdiel says, and get them to move it down to empire for you, it'll cost you fuel and maybe some extra isk. Read up about mineral compression, ie build modules that take up less space than the minerals they're build from, there's no one module that is perfect, it depends on the minerals you've got. Try looking at http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/compression/ I used to have a spreadsheet which gave me the mineral volume compared to the volume of the compressed ore, but I can't find it, but look at making one, it's easy enough to do, so if you've got a rorqual then see which ores are better transported down to empire as minerals or which are better as compressed ores. Thank you for reply. Yeah I considered building tech 1 production.In fact we need low-end minerals. If we mine low-end ore,miners get less wages.
fdk trade State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.07.29 07:16:00 - [9] - Quote Droxlyn wrote: Read this chart and understand it: http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore If you aren't mining Ark, everything is nearly tied. Low-ends and high-ends are equally valuable. Perfect Orca+Perfect Hulk (+3% implant) yields about 160k m3/hour of ore Ark is 44m/hour Scordite and Bistot are both 34m/hour or so. Plagioclase is 33m/hour. The next 5 are about 30m/hour Kernite and Crokite are the lowest reasonable ones at 27m/h and 29m/h. Omber, Gneiss, and Spodumain should be avoided at about 15m/h each. Mercoxit is at about 34m/h for the Skiff pilot. So, really, you aren't losing out much by mining the "low ends" unless you pick Omber, Gneiss, or Spodumain. Good luck! Drox Help me a lot. thank you.
Haffsol Froody Guys Spaceships Business 9	Posted - 2012.07.29 07:28:00 - [10] - Quote hmm.... sorry how's that you found youself in this situation? I mean did you bring 20 pilots to live out in null with no clue about the logistic aspects? Quote: .....and in a safe place 20 clueless people mining in null in a safe place? holy gisus!!!

Dave stark Bombardier Inc 305	Posted - 2012.07.29 07:29:00 - [11] - Quote sell them on the local market; if you're not going to transport them anywhere you have nowhere else to sell them. i fail to see how this is even a question... Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold.
fdk trade State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.07.29 07:49:00 - [12] - Quote Haffsol wrote: hmm.... sorry how's that you found youself in this situation? I mean did you bring 20 pilots to live out in null with no clue about the logistic aspects? Quote: .....and in a safe place 20 clueless people mining in null in a safe place? holy gisus!!! There was a corp nearby buying high-ends.
fdk trade State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.07.29 08:02:00 - [13] - Quote Dave stark wrote: sell them on the local market; if you're not going to transport them anywhere you have nowhere else to sell them. i fail to see how this is even a question... Thank you for reply. I tried that but no one bought minerals even my order is 20% low price than jita.Because there are two other mining teams in the region.The price of high-ends jumps down,so we have ISK crisis.
Haffsol Froody Guys Spaceships Business 9	Posted - 2012.07.29 08:04:00 - [14] - Quote Quote: There was a corp that doesn't sound too well. I'd suggest you to gtfo before someone spots you and let you understand the hard way that null sec and safe place aren't words to put too close together. Null sec is very intersting also from an industrial stand but the logistics and all related aspects make it almost unprofitable if you don't have support from an established corp (even if just by buying your stuff). If you want to build that corp from scratch, good luck with that, really.
Dave stark Bombardier Inc 306	Posted - 2012.07.29 08:09:00 - [15] - Quote fdk trade wrote: Dave stark wrote: sell them on the local market; if you're not going to transport them anywhere you have nowhere else to sell them. i fail to see how this is even a question... Thank you for reply. I tried that but no one bought minerals even my order is 20% low price than jita.Because there are two other mining teams in the region.The price of high-ends jumps down,so we have ISK crisis. if it's not profitable; stop doing it. again, if you are unwilling to transport it then the local market is your only option. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold.
fdk trade State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.07.29 08:24:00 - [16] - Quote Thanks for all your advices.I will take a talk with my mates.
Lord Wickham Saints Among Sinners Intrepid Crossing 17	Posted - 2012.07.29 12:44:00 - [17] - Quote mine the lower ends, its only a slight drop in profits and as stated above unless you have endless supply of arkonor scordite plagioglase is exactly the same isk value as bistot crokite. my suggestion is to mine the stuff you need to build dreads/carriers once built you can jump or get them jumped to low sec relatively easy depending on your region ofc. that is if your alliance doesnt want to buy the dreads or carriers. you need to run some numbers tbh its gona cost you isk to get your minerals jumped out, but your also going to take a slight isk loss if you start mining lower end ores which you'll need to do to build anything of worth. you should be able to work out a point in time when it becomes more profitable for you and yours miners to mine lower end ores then get your minerals jumped out. i would say this however a jump freighter can hold 350km3(roughly), in megacyte terms if you filled the JF with it you would recieve a payout of 83billion isk. so you should most definately be able to make use of a JF pilot and if you have to pay him 100mil per run so be it, if you have a cargo worth 10bil isk its only 1% and you've already stated you've tried to sell your minerals on local market at -20% jita. its a no brainer, pay to get your minerals jumped, just make sure you are jumping loads worth it.
DenForX Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 24	Posted - 2012.07.29 17:15:00 - [18] - Quote Just don't haul that much in a single freighter in High sec unless you want to have a big old flashing sign saying "Gank me for profit". Alternatly, contract someone like Red Frog or their alternate hauling services, you may find that paying them gets the job done with an acceptable level of profit.
Zyella Stormborn Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis 32	Posted - 2012.07.29 18:26:00 - [19] - Quote If you are bound and determined to stay out in 0.0, my advice is this: 1) Get someone trained and flying a Rorqual for the compression. Have the team all contribute towards the cost. 2) Get someone (or their alt) trained and flying a jump freighter. Have the team all contribute towards the cost. (Or higher a JF service) 3) Get a few others to be trained in and proficient with a Cyno and scouts (for protection where you land in the JF) 3) Find one of the local corps that are part of the SOV and make a deal with them for protection (or at least to leave you alone). 4) ? ? 5) Profit.
Xuixien Rifterlings Ushra'Khan 73	Posted - 2012.07.29 18:47:00 - [20] - Quote Hello, Just let me know what system you're in and I'll help you get those minerals out. -Xuixien Rabble Rabble!!

Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises 521	Posted - 2012.07.29 21:43:00 - [21] - Quote Depending on where you are, Black Frog might be of use to you, to jump stuff back to Empire. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 893	Posted - 2012.07.29 23:04:00 - [22] - Quote fdk trade wrote: Anyone has any ideas? Simplest would be to manufacture T1 stuff and sell it locally: * Cap Boosters * Scripts * Cyno generators * Salvager I * Small Tractor Beam I * Battlecruisers * Battleships * Carriers & Dreadnoughts * Capital size modules * Capital size ammo * Fighters & Bombers etc.
Traedar InterStellar Trading Syndicate 2	Posted - 2012.07.30 00:35:00 - [23] - Quote Xuixien wrote: Hello, Just let me know what system you're in and I'll help you get those minerals out. -Xuixien It's a trap!
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief 861	Posted - 2012.07.30 01:25:00 - [24] - Quote I just checked the star map for ships destroyed. At a quite rough estimate, 1000 ships were destroyed in null in the last 24 hours. All those pilots need replacement ships. Build them and sell them in null. In general you can get a 30% markup on ship prices over mineral sell price (at least thats what I get in High, I find it hard to believe its worse in null). That extra 30% makes up for the fact that to build ships you need to mine a mix of low ends and high ends. Another odd option: compress the ore and look for a null to high sec wormhole. Use an Orca to move the compressed ore to high through the WH. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/
Werst Dendenahzees GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 102	Posted - 2012.07.30 01:54:00 - [25] - Quote Don't build T1 in null, just JF everything to highsec and then use a freighter or a Red Frog contract to get it to Jita. Compress low ends, refine high ends.
Styth spiting Ion Corp. NightSong Directorate 36	Posted - 2012.07.30 07:46:00 - [26] - Quote If you have perfect orca boosts then get a rorqual setup in your system. Not only do you get better boosts (something like 25%-30% more) but it can compress ores down to a 20/1 compression (1000 arkonor = 16,000m3 compressed = 800m3). You're going to need to haul your own ores, or pay to have them hauled. No one wants to buy nullsec ores in null, let alone from a random system who knows where. So if you're not manufacturing products to sell to corp/alliance mates the only profitable way to do it is to get it to highsec. If you don't have your own JF (a rorqual can be used as a poor mans carrier/jump freighter for jumping) you're going to have to pay someone to move it. Move it to an NPC station and pay red frog. They have good prices compared to others. And if you're not willing to pay 150M +/- to move 1.6B worth of arkonor to high sec (about how much a JF can haul compressed for example) or you're not planning on manufacturing with it you're wasting your time in null. Now you see why the ores are more valuable out there, because there are extra costs to
Heathkit Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation 84	Posted - 2012.07.30 11:13:00 - [27] - Quote This is an example of how mineral volumes are broken in this game. It never makes sense to produce in null, because every product is smaller than the components used to produce it. Your best bet is to keep mining high ends and selling them. If you want to do production, do it near jita like everyone else then ship the finished goods where you want them. One thing you might look at is producing items with a high percentage of high-ends in their construction (do both by volume and by value).
Zicon Shak'ra Vacuo Anomalia 10	Posted - 2012.07.30 12:59:00 - [28] - Quote Traedar wrote: Xuixien wrote: Hello, Just let me know what system you're in and I'll help you get those minerals out. -Xuixien It's a trap! Don't be ridiculous. Ushra'Khan is one of the best logistics groups in EVE.
Cedo Nulli Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 209	Posted - 2012.07.31 04:01:00 - [29] - Quote OP and his unsuspecting crew are going to get demolished .... demolished like justin bieber would be in prison.
fdk trade State War Academy Caldari State 1	Posted - 2012.07.31 07:05:00 - [30] - Quote Thanks,everyone! We decided to give up low-ends mining plan.Yeah selling the high-ends in high sec may get more profit, so we discussed about the transports: fail to find JF,but we do have carriers\black ops\sweet pilots. Then will do these: 1.Keep mining high-ends(have read Bloodtear_Industy_Index_Report_v3, thanks:)) 2.Compress ores and take to high sec by carriers or Prorators. 3.Sell the ores and buy some low-ends,compress. 4.Take the low-ends back to null. 5.Build dreads or carriers.



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