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Earthan
Gallente GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.09.13 19:49:00 -
[1]
1-Problem
Imho Eve pvp fights are pretty good and offer good tactical choices at about 20-30 man.
When the fleets goes up to 50 good dps ships and more , the fights start more and more consist of both sides just killign ships in one volley. You dont have time to think , it stops to matter so much if you are good pilot , its not fun for anyone.
2-Proposition
While playing sins of solar empire these last days i really liked the way they solved this problem, even when you got a 100+ ships blob there and you focus on 1 target it still will last a bit:
They intoduced something called shield mitigation , the more ships shoot on same target, the more dmg is absorbed by the shield of a ship , so the mroe you focus the loss return you see.
Im not saying this is exactly the solution but its really workign there, maybe somethign similar.
3-Benefit
Even if you got primaried you still last a bit so its mroe fun for you and those that try to kill you.
Maybe it will be beneficial to split fleet into few squads with target callers , making another layer of tactical complexity, involving more poeple.
Killing will slow down so overall you can think a bit more during battle
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Earthan
Gallente GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.09.13 20:24:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm That is crazy!
So crazy it just might work!
what about armor tankers thou!
:)
I was talking about the orginal idea, ofc for eve it would have ot be both shield/armor/hull mitigation
Its just a concept to work on , you woudl have to balance a lot of things im sure.
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Earthan
Gallente GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.09.13 20:27:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Alara IonStorm That is crazy!
So crazy it just might work!
what about armor tankers thou!
I'm sure they can come up with some kind of sci-fi rp explanation for the armor version.
Would be nice if mitigation fades after a certain amount of time, or does not apply for supercaps though. Would be nice to be able to take down a titan before next DT.
good point. Or take into account ship class for each mitigation level, so you can pour much more dmg on capitals before its starts working
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Earthan
Gallente GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.09.13 21:00:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Nub Sauce Some time ago, I suggested weapons fire interference as a way to prevent instant death when getting attacked by tons of people.
Depending on the size of ship (bigger takes more attackers), after so many ships are firing at it, targetting interference comes into play. The interference doesn't preventing target locks, but the effectiveness of the weapons firing upon the target. Projectile weapons would score lesser hits, missiles would explode off target a bit doing less damage.
Pretty similar to what you are proposing, just a good in-game reason for it to occur.
yep pretty same , i would be as happy with this.
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Earthan
Gallente GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.09.15 19:46:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Nomistrav Stating from actual large fleet combat experience:
A.) We already have a wing/squad broadcast system. In the bottom right corner of your fleet window is what looks like four arrows connected in the center. This is your ability to choose who to broadcast to (everyone, my group, superiors). Depending on whether or not you are a wing or squad commander this applies to you.
B.)Mitigation is unrealistic, as you are all targeting the same target and at different distances/angles. It's like saying you and a friend are both shooting pool balls from different sides of the table. Unless by some astronomical means of physical coincedence (sp) those pool balls aren't going to hit each other and suddenly obliterate one/the other/themselves.
C.) I like where the topic is going, and it would solve a lot of issues (albeit perhaps more than cause physics/realism wise) but it doesn't natural and would require incredible amounts of micromanagement that would add problems. In fact it would probably add more lag with both sides barking out broadcasts (especially spamming them if lag was preventing the command issued)
Mostly the reason 'blob' tactics are in effect is because logistics are fielded and it takes a lot of DPS to counter 20 logistics healing one person. I'll support it if this 'mitigation' were to counter the mass affect of the logistics.
Id ont care so much about realism , you can justify however you want the effect.I mean its unrealistic atm that eveyone is shooting past each other in blobs, we should be shoooting each othe rint he back most of time...
I just know in sins of solar empire that effect works great and adds lots to fun.
The logisitcs have nothing to do with blobs, blobs were long long before the logostocs were even introduced to the game.
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Earthan
Gallente GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.09.15 19:52:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida It works fine in a game like SoSE where you don't have a ton of database queries and server chatter going back and forth .. just imagine the extra information needed for you proposal, lag can be bad as is - this would make it truly epic CCP mentioned something about a field defense shield they were working on, so it would seem that they to are getting fed up with blob-on-blob action and are looking for ways to discourage it.
Originally by: Nuts Nougat I would support the **** out of removing names of anyone not in your fleet (make it like d-scan).
It's an awesome idea but needs more tools for FC's and/or squad/wing commanders, adding the ability to automatically transmit targets for instance. Combined with the equally bad-ass idea of formations and we suddenly have fleets with semi-independently operating squads and wings wreaking havoc across the stars.
Yea that might be problem , the computation power could be unrealisitc for this. But maybe ccp magicians can coem up with something alike but needing little computing power?
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Earthan
Gallente GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.09.15 20:16:00 -
[7]
cap on the number of peopel per allince will never work and any other such ideas, poeple will just form few allinces and use them...
only way imho is to nerf the benefit of focusing fire on one target from to many ships or over a certain levle somehow.
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Earthan
Gallente GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.09.16 19:17:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Earthan on 16/09/2010 19:20:49 Edited by: Earthan on 16/09/2010 19:20:00
Originally by: Nomistrav To sum up my opinion: I like small gang warfare but I love large fleet warfare. Don't give them a reason to absolutely annihilate one or the other, and I'm happy. This damage mitigation talk will indeed make large fleets useless as the micromanagement wouldn't be worth the effort.
I dont think it will make it useless.
I like the thrill of big fleet but i am not to impressed with the tactics that atm you can use in it mostly its shoot x shoot y.
If soemthing along the shield/armor/hull mitigation would be timplemented im pretty sure blobs would still be on , a 150 man fleet would still kill nicely a 50 man fleet, just slower and maybe to be effective owould have to divide into 5-10 squads to maximise firepower.Also both sides would have a chance to think wahts happening and maybe come up with a clever tactic.
Also people getting primaried would have achance to do soemthign before dying , woudl have moire fun out of the game.
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