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GTar	Posted - 2010.09.15 14:51:00 - [1] Does anyone know for cirtain that Innerspace by www.lavishsoft.com is legal to us with eve clients ? They state that they have asked CCP , and it is legal. I filed a petition about it, but that could take forever :P /GTar
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.15 14:59:00 - [2] Highly unlikely. Also, in before lock/edit/delete/nuke/nerfbat. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Lost Hamster Hamster Holding Corp	Posted - 2010.09.15 15:04:00 - [3] Definitely not.

CCP Zymurgist Gallente C C P	Posted - 2010.09.15 16:15:00 - [4] I suggest asking the GMs by submitting a petition under Rules & Policies -> EULA and Terms of Service for an official answer. In the mean time just play it safe and do not use it Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact Us

Cryten Jones Gallente Eldritch Storm The Matari Consortium	Posted - 2010.09.15 16:22:00 - [5] This is the quote that they are using to validate. Have to say that if it's real then fair play, seems to just make life easier, you still have to be there after all. Quote: Hello there, To make a long story short, automation of gameplay is not permitted; players must be manually issuing the commands to control their character(s) at all times. Our stance on programs such as Synergy and hardware/software combination such as the G15 keyboard is that they can be legitimately used as long as gameplay isn't automated. Synergy allows you to move your mouse cursor to multiple different monitors which are hooked up to different computers and we do not have any qualms with players using the program for this purpose. If Synergy was used in some way to control your accounts for you without a need for you to be at your keyboard, then that would not be allowed, but I am not aware of such a functionality with this program. If Synergy is used in conjunction with some other program to automate gameplay, it would not be permitted. G15 "macros" which allow you to group different commands into one keypress are allowed. For example, setting your G1 key to press F1, F2, F3 and so on for you with one key press is allowed (although this specific command is not as useful as it was before now that we have weapon grouping). An exceedingly complex G15 macro which would effectively automate gameplay, such as mining, without a need for the player to be present at his keyboard would be against the EULA, regardless of whether the player utilizing said macro is sitting at his keyboard at the time! Lastly, multiboxing is allowed, and programs designed for multiboxing in mind which allow a player to manually issue the same command to multiple game clients at the same time are allowed. In the same vein as what has been stated above, the player must be manually sending the commands; if a program is automating those commands for you, then it would be considered a breach of our EULA. I hope this clears up this matter. Best regards, Senior GM Lelouch EVE Online Customer Support Quote: -CJ Originally by: Nogap toosmall and your understanding of probability is on par with a radish.
ceaon	Posted - 2010.09.15 16:48:00 - [6] that is a awesome software to have multiple clients on same screen make clients switching very fast http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEvezuymfsc Originally by: CCP Adida The male thread was locked because the discussion turned into transsexuals and man boobs.
Widemouth Deepthroat	Posted - 2010.09.15 17:05:00 - [7] funny you click that link to lavishsoft and it talks about multilbox botting. Should be banned for poast such a thing.
ceaon	Posted - 2010.09.15 17:12:00 - [8] Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat multilbox botting where ? Originally by: CCP Adida The male thread was locked because the discussion turned into transsexuals and man boobs.
Cryten Jones Gallente Eldritch Storm The Matari Consortium	Posted - 2010.09.15 17:14:00 - [9] Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat funny you click that link to lavishsoft and it talks about multilbox botting. Should be banned for poast such a thing. With a name like that mate you are lucky not to get banned yourself :-) -CJ Originally by: Nogap toosmall and your understanding of probability is on par with a radish.
Barakkus Caelestis Iudicium	Posted - 2010.09.15 17:18:00 - [10] That's pretty kewl, I might actually get that for EQ2 instead of using my laptop for my second account. Originally by: CCP Dropbear rofl edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.15 17:25:00 - [11] Originally by: Cryten Jones This is the quote that they are using to validate. Have to say that if it's real then fair play, seems to just make life easier, you still have to be there after all. Quote: [stuff] The same quote also explains why Innerspace doesn't stand a chance in hell to be legit. According to their own wiki, it can be used to script and automate gameplay, it can be used to provide additional UI, and it can be used to create plug-ins and add-ons, three things explicitly forbidden by the EULA and ToS. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
ceaon	Posted - 2010.09.15 17:29:00 - [12] Originally by: Cryten Jones This is the quote that they are using to validate. Have to say that if it's real then fair play, seems to just make life easier, you still have to be there after all. Quote: [stuff] The same quote also explains why Innerspace doesn't stand a chance in hell to be legit. According to their own wiki, it can be used to script and automate gameplay, it can be used to provide additional UI, and it can be used to create plug-ins and add-ons, three things explicitly forbidden by the EULA and ToS. g11 and g15 have the option to repeat the same action multiple times Originally by: CCP Adida The male thread was locked because the discussion turned into transsexuals and man boobs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.15 17:38:00 - [13] Originally by: ceaon g11 and g15 have the option to repeat the same action multiple times That's something rather different than automating (much less scripting) gameplay, and it's allowed for that reason. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.09.15 17:44:00 - [14] Originally by: GTar I filed a petition about it, but that could take forever :P Originally by: CCP Zymurgist I suggest asking the GMs by submitting a petition Wise words, file another petition about it. Suggestion: Remove the "new topic" button from everywhere apart from the list of topics section within a subforum. That'd save those with chronic hand/eye coordination some face.
ceaon	Posted - 2010.09.15 17:48:00 - [15] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: ceaon g11 and g15 have the option to repeat the same action multiple times That's something rather different than automating (much less scripting) gameplay, and it's allowed for that reason. so why this soft should not be allowed ? is a perfect tool to avoid the annoying alt tab between game clients also helps allot because CCP is to lazy to code the window mode borderless Originally by: CCP Adida The male thread was locked because the discussion turned into transsexuals and man boobs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.15 17:49:00 - [16] Originally by: ceaon so why this soft should not be allowed ? Like I said: because it's not limited to just doing the same thing as a G11/G15. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
ceaon	Posted - 2010.09.15 17:51:00 - [17] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: ceaon so why this soft should not be allowed ? Like I said: because it's not limited to just doing the same thing as a G11/G15. from your logic knifes should be banned because they are not limited to cut bread also allow to kill ppl Originally by: CCP Adida The male thread was locked because the discussion turned into transsexuals and man boobs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.15 17:58:00 - [18] Originally by: ceaon from your logic knifes should be banned because they are not limited to cut bread also allow to kill ppl àI take it you'll be surprised to learn that they are banned, then? Look, it's very simple: that program lets you do things that are against the EULA. It therefore breaks the EULA. What else it can do that doesn't break the EULA is of little to no importance ù what matters is that it does it at all. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
ceaon	Posted - 2010.09.15 18:05:00 - [19] Originally by: Tippia àI take it you'll be surprised to learn that they are banned, then? i can buy a knife anytime and i have several type on the kitchen how is that banned ? look they give away knifes even whit the newspaper Originally by: Tippia Look, it's very simple: that program lets you do things that are against the EULA. It therefore breaks the EULA. What else it can do that doesn't break the EULA is of little to no importance ù what matters is that it does it at all. wow you are smart that program lets you do things that are against the EULA if that is true but you dont use the program do things that are against the EULA why should be a player banned ? Originally by: CCP Adida The male thread was locked because the discussion turned into transsexuals and man boobs.
Cryten Jones Gallente Eldritch Storm The Matari Consortium	Posted - 2010.09.15 18:10:00 - [20] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: ceaon from your logic knifes should be banned because they are not limited to cut bread also allow to kill ppl àI take it you'll be surprised to learn that they are banned, then? Look, it's very simple: that program lets you do things that are against the EULA. It therefore breaks the EULA. What else it can do that doesn't break the EULA is of little to no importance ù what matters is that it does it at all. But by this statement the G15 should also be! The key here is that 'because it can' is not the same as you CHOOSING to do so. This is a very fine line I know but that would be why the OP posted. I personally have no intention of automating anything, like the others here is's about the ability to multi-box in a better way then offered by the current client. To be honest I am not that fussed either way. Just want to know if I am allowed to use the multi-screen features of this product or not. Also, the petition option is a bit of a cop-out from CCP as we are not allowed to discuss that on the forums so the answer is a one-2-one thing. Can't we just can a direct answer yes or no ? -CJ Originally by: Nogap toosmall and your understanding of probability is on par with a radish.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.15 18:11:00 - [21] Originally by: ceaon i can buy a knife anytime and i have several type on the kitchen how is that banned ? Try taking them on board an airplaneà Quote: wow you are smart I know. Quote: that program lets you do things that are against the EULA if that is true àthen you're not allowed to bring it into the game, no matter what else it does, just like you can't bring that knife on board an airplane, no matter how much you just say you just use it to cut bread. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Cryten Jones Gallente Eldritch Storm The Matari Consortium	Posted - 2010.09.15 18:16:00 - [22] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: ceaon i can buy a knife anytime and i have several type on the kitchen how is that banned ? Try taking them on board an airplaneà Quote: wow you are smart I know. Quote: that program lets you do things that are against the EULA if that is true àthen you're not allowed to bring it into the game, no matter what else it does, just like you can't bring that knife on board an airplane, no matter how much you just say you just use it to cut bread. Humm, sure I took a knife on a plane not so long ago. They just asked me to not use the 'cutting people' features by way of placing it in the hold Anyway, not interested in your point of view to be honest. Official answers are required not guess work. -CJ Originally by: Nogap toosmall and your understanding of probability is on par with a radish.
Barakkus Caelestis Iudicium	Posted - 2010.09.15 18:19:00 - [23] Originally by: Cryten Jones Originally by: Tippia Originally by: ceaon i can buy a knife anytime and i have several type on the kitchen how is that banned ? Try taking them on board an airplaneà Quote: wow you are smart I know. Quote: that program lets you do things that are against the EULA if that is true àthen you're not allowed to bring it into the game, no matter what else it does, just like you can't bring that knife on board an airplane, no matter how much you just say you just use it to cut bread. Humm, sure I took a knife on a plane not so long ago. They just asked me to not use the 'cutting people' features by way of placing it in the hold Anyway, not interested in your point of view to be honest. Official answers are required not guess work. -CJ He enjoys being a contrarian regardless if he's right or not and will argue his point until you give up or nerd rage at him. Originally by: CCP Dropbear rofl edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.15 18:20:00 - [24] Edited by: Tippia on 15/09/2010 18:24:39 Originally by: Cryten Jones Humm, sure I took a knife on a plane not so long ago. They just asked me to not use the 'cutting people' features by way of placing it in the hold àand I'm sure they'll let you use Innerspace as long as you're not logged in as well. Quote: Anyway, not interested in your point of view to be honest. Official answers are required not guess work. So don't post it on the forums and wait for that petition. v0v Originally by: Barakkus He enjoys being a contrarian regardless if he's right or not and will argue his point until you give up or nerd rage at him. Tbh, it has less to do with being contrarian and more to do with people presenting horrid (or no) arguments. If you really want to get me going, post something I agree with but do it in a horribly stupid wayà àthat kicks me into "if you're going to agree with me, don't make 'my side' look pants-on-head *****ed" mode, which isn't a pretty sight. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki*
Cryten Jones Gallente Eldritch Storm The Matari Consortium	Posted - 2010.09.15 18:21:00 - [25] Originally by: Barakkus He enjoys being a contrarian regardless if he's right or not and will argue his point until you give up or nerd rage at him. He's in for a long night then :-) -CJ Originally by: Nogap toosmall and your understanding of probability is on par with a radish.
Cryten Jones Gallente Eldritch Storm The Matari Consortium	Posted - 2010.09.15 18:24:00 - [26] Originally by: Tippia So don't post it on the forums and wait for that petition. v0v Err......I didn't..... -CJ Originally by: Nogap toosmall and your understanding of probability is on par with a radish.
ceaon	Posted - 2010.09.15 18:25:00 - [27] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: ceaon i can buy a knife anytime and i have several type on the kitchen how is that banned ? Try taking them on board an airplaneà Quote: wow you are smart I know. Quote: that program lets you do things that are against the EULA if that is true àthen you're not allowed to bring it into the game, no matter what else it does, just like you can't bring that knife on board an airplane, no matter how much you just say you just use it to cut bread. wow spin to lvl 5 in order to get banned you need to break the EULA resizing the game client dont break the EULA Originally by: CCP Adida The male thread was locked because the discussion turned into transsexuals and man boobs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.15 18:25:00 - [28] Originally by: Cryten Jones Err......I didn't..... Pah! Details! But yes, sorry for that memory lapse on my part. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Cryten Jones Gallente Eldritch Storm The Matari Consortium	Posted - 2010.09.15 18:29:00 - [29] No problem. I am way too busy laughing my backside off that the text I copied from the site in question as been removed from my post because it's a GM response. I mean...come on! a) It is already in the public domain b) If the official answer is to ask the GM's but we can't then post that answer for every one else to read..... -CJ Originally by: Nogap toosmall and your understanding of probability is on par with a radish.
ceaon	Posted - 2010.09.15 18:39:00 - [30] Edited by: ceaon on 15/09/2010 18:40:51 Originally by: Tippia According to their wiki, it hooks into DirectX (not allowed) directx is not a CCP product try harder Quote: to read/write mouse and key events (not allowed), to alter the game UI (not allowed), run bots (not allowed) and create third-party addons (not allowed). is does that by default or players have to make thins changes ? Originally by: CCP Adida The male thread was locked because the discussion turned into transsexuals and man boobs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.15 18:48:00 - [31] Originally by: ceaon directx is not a CCP product EVE is, and hooking into it through DirectX isn't allowed. Quote: try harder Wow. You really do want this botting tool to be legal, don't youà Quote: is does that by default or players have to make thins changes ? Doesn't particularly matter for its overall legalityà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
ceaon	Posted - 2010.09.15 18:53:00 - [32] Originally by: Tippia EVE is, and hooking into it through DirectX isn't allowed. the EULA dont say about that Originally by: Tippia Doesn't particularly matter for its overall legalityà it does if the software dont make by default so the software is not build on purpose to do that Originally by: CCP Adida The male thread was locked because the discussion turned into transsexuals and man boobs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.15 18:59:00 - [33] Edited by: Tippia on 15/09/2010 19:01:21 Originally by: ceaon the EULA dont say about that True. It's just the GMsà and actually the EULA as well, in a somewhat circumscribed way. Quote: it does if the software dont make by default so the software is not build on purpose to do that The purpose of the software is to create bots. They're quite open about that. àso, yeah. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
ceaon	Posted - 2010.09.15 19:01:00 - [34] Originally by: Tippia The purpose of the software is to create bots. if bots are not created there is nothing against EULA Originally by: CCP Adida The male thread was locked because the discussion turned into transsexuals and man boobs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.15 19:02:00 - [35] Originally by: ceaon if bots are not created àyou don't need the software in question. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
ceaon	Posted - 2010.09.15 19:08:00 - [36] Originally by: Tippia you don't need the software in question. for multiple borderless windowed clients you need the software in question Originally by: CCP Adida The male thread was locked because the discussion turned into transsexuals and man boobs.
GTar	Posted - 2010.09.15 19:10:00 - [37] I know Im not allowed to write the response from the EVE GM, but all i can say is its allowed to use the innerspace software for now ! This link is to EVE forum, and it came from innerspace support staff. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1291641&page=10#274 Short story is that using G15, Synergy or Innerspace only makes manual inputs go to another client/pc. All automation is offcause against the EULA. /GTar
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.15 19:13:00 - [38] Originally by: ceaon Originally by: Tippia you don't need the software in question. for multiple borderless windowed clients you need the software in question Not really, no. Oh, and for the record, Innerspace doesn't let you multibox ù it's third-party software that lets you load apps that interact with the game. Since even the first step in that chain is against the EULA/ToS, you're in trouble even before you load the multiboxing addons. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
ceaon	Posted - 2010.09.15 19:16:00 - [39] Originally by: Tippia Oh, and for the record, Innerspace doesn't let you multibox http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEvezuymfsc Originally by: CCP Adida The male thread was locked because the discussion turned into transsexuals and man boobs.
Cryten Jones Gallente Eldritch Storm The Matari Consortium	Posted - 2010.09.15 19:18:00 - [40] Edited by: Cryten Jones on 15/09/2010 19:18:39 Edited by: Cryten Jones on 15/09/2010 19:18:21 Originally by: Cryten Jones This is the quote that they are using to validate. Have to say that if it's real then fair play, seems to just make life easier, you still have to be there after all. Quote: GM correspondence removed. Zymurgist Quote: -CJ Even more LOL as the text removed is the same text that is in this post on our very own forums! -CJ Originally by: Nogap toosmall and your understanding of probability is on par with a radish.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.15 19:18:00 - [41] Originally by: ceaon Originally by: Tippia Oh, and for the record, Innerspace doesn't let you multibox http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEvezuymfsc àusing a plugin. Innerspace is just the platform to create that app. Originally by: GTar I know Im not allowed to write the response from the EVE GM, but all i can say is its allowed to use the innerspace software for now ! This link is to EVE forum, and it came from innerspace support staff. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1291641&page=10#274 The problem is that they're conveniently misrepresenting what that quote says and what their software does. GM Lelouch says that "If [software] was used in some way to control your accounts for you without a need for you to be at your keyboard, then that would not be allowed, but I am not aware of such a functionality with this program." For Synergy, it might be true that this functionality doesn't exist; for Innerspace, it does, which squarely places it in "not allowed" territory. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
ceaon	Posted - 2010.09.15 19:33:00 - [42] Originally by: Cryten Jones Edited by: Cryten Jones on 15/09/2010 19:18:39 Edited by: Cryten Jones on 15/09/2010 19:18:21 Originally by: Cryten Jones This is the quote that they are using to validate. Have to say that if it's real then fair play, seems to just make life easier, you still have to be there after all. Quote: GM correspondence removed. Zymurgist Quote: -CJ Even more LOL as the text removed is the same text that is in this post on our very own forums! -CJ LOOOOOOOOOL awesome fail Originally by: CCP Adida The male thread was locked because the discussion turned into transsexuals and man boobs.
ceaon	Posted - 2010.09.15 19:39:00 - [43] Edited by: ceaon on 15/09/2010 19:42:36 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: ceaon Originally by: Tippia Oh, and for the record, Innerspace doesn't let you multibox http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEvezuymfsc àusing a plugin. Innerspace is just the platform to create that app. Originally by: GTar I know Im not allowed to write the response from the EVE GM, but all i can say is its allowed to use the innerspace software for now ! This link is to EVE forum, and it came from innerspace support staff. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1291641&page=10#274 The problem is that they're conveniently misrepresenting what that quote says and what their software does. GM Lelouch says that "If [software] was used in some way to control your accounts for you without a need for you to be at your keyboard, then that would not be allowed, but I am not aware of such a functionality with this program." For Synergy, it might be true that this functionality doesn't exist; for Innerspace, it does, which squarely places it in "not allowed" territory. no you are wrong if there is no action against the EULA there are no reason for ban one can build a bot that make a alliance whit over 9000 bots to take sov in 0.0 but if you (the player) dont start the bot there is no reason for ban, if you have this eve_bot_9000 application open while you play eve is not against the EULA Originally by: CCP Adida The male thread was locked because the discussion turned into transsexuals and man boobs.
TigerXtrm	Posted - 2010.09.15 20:22:00 - [44] There is a GM quote on their website (including a source link, so you can verify) where it says that multiboxing is allowed. So yes, this software is legal until another GM tells you otherwise. End of story.
Cambarus Dead poets society The Laughing Men	Posted - 2010.09.15 21:17:00 - [45] Edited by: Cambarus on 15/09/2010 21:20:04 I petitioned this a while ago, and asked the senior GM who responded to post on the forums to confirm it: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1291641&page=10#274 EDIT: for those too lazy to read: It's allowed. The important bit: Originally by: GM Lelouch Lastly, multiboxing is allowed, and programs designed for multiboxing in mind which allow a player to manually issue the same command to multiple game clients at the same time are allowed. In the same vein as what has been stated above, the player must be manually sending the commands; if a program is automating those commands for you, then it would be considered a breach of our EULA. I hope this clears up this matter. Best regards, Senior GM Lelouch EVE Online Customer Support
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.15 21:33:00 - [46] Edited by: Tippia on 15/09/2010 21:35:31 Originally by: TigerXtrm There is a GM quote on their website (including a source link, so you can verify) where it says that multiboxing is allowed. So yes, this software is legal until another GM tells you otherwise. End of story. Originally by: Cambarus I petitioned this a while ago, and asked the senior GM who responded to post on the forums to confirm it: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1291641&page=10#274 Again, the problem is that multiboxing isn't what this software does ù it's what one particular plugin for it does. That quote they're using (which has already been repeated numerous times) is rather judiciously interpreted to say that if part X is allowed, then all of it is allowed. As it happens, that is actually something the exact same GM quote says is not true. So,, sure, it's legal until a GM says otherwise ù it's just that the exact same quote they're using as a justification can be said to be a GM saying otherwise. The important bit: Originally by: GM Lelouch If Synergy was used in some way to control your accounts for you without a need for you to be at your keyboard, then that would not be allowed, but I am not aware of such a functionality with this program. Synergy (in this case) is allowed because it offers no capacity or functionality to automate/bot, all it does is let you multibox. Innerspace, on the other hand, does provide that capacity and functionality and it does more than let you multibox, which means that this particular statement proves absolutely nothing about the legality of Innerspace ù in fact, it rather suggest that it isn't legal. Yes, with the right addons, you can use Innerspace to multibox, but that doesn't mean that Innerspace as a whole is legal, since it lets you do so much more. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Cambarus Dead poets society The Laughing Men	Posted - 2010.09.15 21:49:00 - [47] Originally by: Tippia Again, the problem is that multiboxing isn't what this software does ù it's what one particular plugin for it does. That quote they're using (which has already been repeated numerous times) is rather judiciously interpreted to say that if part X is allowed, then all of it is allowed. As it happens, that is actually something the exact same GM quote says is not true. So,, sure, it's legal until a GM says otherwise ù it's just that the exact same quote they're using as a justification can be said to be a GM saying otherwise. The important bit: Originally by: GM Lelouch If Synergy was used in some way to control your accounts for you without a need for you to be at your keyboard, then that would not be allowed, but I am not aware of such a functionality with this program. Synergy (in this case) is allowed because it offers no capacity or functionality to automate/bot, all it does is let you multibox. Innerspace, on the other hand, does provide that capacity and functionality and it does more than let you multibox, which means that this particular statement proves absolutely nothing about the legality of Innerspace ù in fact, it rather suggest that it isn't legal. Yes, with the right addons, you can use Innerspace to multibox, but that doesn't mean that Innerspace as a whole is legal, since it lets you do so much more. Are we talking about ISboxer here? Haven't used it in ages but IIRC it doesn't let you use macros (at least not the sort that are against the EULA). If we're talking about a different plugin then the point is moot, because saying innerspace isn't allowed because one of its plugins can be used to macro is like saying windows isn't allowed because certain programs written for it allow you to, well, macro.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.15 21:58:00 - [48] Originally by: Cambarus If we're talking about a different plugin then the point is moot, because saying innerspace isn't allowed because one of its plugins can be used to macro is like saying windows isn't allowed because certain programs written for it allow you to, well, macro. Windows isn't a botting framework, though, unlike Innerspaceà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Cambarus Dead poets society The Laughing Men	Posted - 2010.09.15 22:03:00 - [49] Edited by: Cambarus on 15/09/2010 22:03:28 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Cambarus If we're talking about a different plugin then the point is moot, because saying innerspace isn't allowed because one of its plugins can be used to macro is like saying windows isn't allowed because certain programs written for it allow you to, well, macro. Windows isn't a botting framework, though, unlike Innerspaceà The point remains the same. Unless either ISboxer or innserspace are on their own usable as a game-automating macro the point is moot. Neither program can be used to macro, so they do not violate the EULA. Period. EDIT: Unless of course you download and use whatever addons there are to automate gameplay, but that should go without saying.
Barakkus Caelestis Iudicium	Posted - 2010.09.15 22:03:00 - [50] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Cambarus If we're talking about a different plugin then the point is moot, because saying innerspace isn't allowed because one of its plugins can be used to macro is like saying windows isn't allowed because certain programs written for it allow you to, well, macro. Windows isn't a botting framework, though, unlike Innerspaceà Yes it is...it's a framework for whatever you want a computer to do Just like Linux and that mac crap. Originally by: CCP Dropbear rofl edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
Siiee Recycled Heroes	Posted - 2010.09.16 00:42:00 - [51] Fraps hooks directX, The My Eve section of the forum is really just a honeypot so CCP can round up all those ebil system hooking hackers for mass bannings in the future You heard it here first.
Zonlith Nitsujsoft Enterprises	Posted - 2010.09.16 01:10:00 - [52] Wait for a GM to say something, but for the most part I don't see why it would be illegal used it in Everquest for the longest time could press a G-Key and it would bring a second, third, or fourth client to the foreground and drop those clients in the background to 5 fps. Looking at it now its come along way. Lax is a good guy always has been and the program with no plugs does not do very much save for what has been already said here. Personalty as much as I love it I would remove the link and await a GM's response, but I don't see why they would say you couldn't as long as you don't attempt to write a bot or something similar to those means. If the GM's say yes please respond to this post I am curious myself and well have not really tried to promote it for eve just because I didnt know myself, but I can say it was GREAT for Everquest and any issues I ever had were responded promptly by Lax himself. Three years using it and I can say nothing bad about it.
Methis Gelen	Posted - 2010.09.16 02:35:00 - [53] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 15/09/2010 21:35:31 The important bit: Originally by: GM Lelouch If Synergy was USED in some way to control your accounts for you without a need for you to be at your keyboard, then that would not be allowed, but I am not aware of such a functionality with this program. Synergy (in this case) is allowed because it OFFERS no capacity or functionality to automate/bot, all it does is let you multibox. (no, you misread what the GM typed - he said 'used' - not 'offers'. This is an important point) Innerspace, on the other hand, does(you mean CAN) provide that capacity and functionality and it does more (again here you confuse the word 'does' with the more appropriate term 'can do') than let you multibox, which means that this particular statement proves absolutely nothing about the legality of Innerspace ù in fact, it rather suggest that it isn't legal. Yes, with the right addons, you CAN use Innerspace to multibox, but that doesn't mean that Innerspace as a whole is legal, since it lets you do so much more. I've capitalized the important bit. The fact that the ability EXISTS is not important - it is whether that ability is USED. The GM stated himself if it were USED in such a fashion, it is not allowed. People who use Isboxer just for the amazing screen switching and mouse broadcasting are fine. It basically is just a way to run synergy on a single screen/box. Innerspace CAN be used to run bots - however it's not as simple/easy as it used to be. As long as you don't use the bits of innerspace that are against the EULA you are fine. This has been stated multiple times in multiple links in this very thread. Isboxer = fine (as verified by GMs) Certain G15 keyboards CAN be used to repeat actions w/out human interaction. Using the keyboard for its normal functions, and just having one plugged into your computer is not against the EULA. USING one for that function is.
King Pleasure	Posted - 2010.09.16 02:38:00 - [54] Just don't come crying when your fleet of macro miners get banned for using third party software that only 'can' be used for botting.
Cambarus Dead poets society The Laughing Men	Posted - 2010.09.16 02:42:00 - [55] Originally by: King Pleasure Just don't come crying when your fleet of macro miners get banned for using third party software that only 'can' be used for botting. That's just it, it CAN'T. Neither ISboxer nor InnerSpace are macro programs, the complaint here is that there are certain, separate, plugins FOR inner space that can be used to macro, which is meaningless, because there are separate programs FOR windows that let you macro. Doesn't make the base program illegal.
King Pleasure	Posted - 2010.09.16 02:55:00 - [56] Originally by: Cambarus Originally by: King Pleasure Just don't come crying when your fleet of macro miners get banned for using third party software that only 'can' be used for botting. That's just it, it CAN'T. Neither ISboxer nor InnerSpace are macro programs, the complaint here is that there are certain, separate, plugins FOR inner space that can be used to macro, which is meaningless, because there are separate programs FOR windows that let you macro. Doesn't make the base program illegal. Okay, that's wonderful. I wasn't arguing with you about the validity of the program and personally, were I to use a program like Innerspace, I'd use it with the knowledge that it isn't directly supported or sanctioned by CCP and that they can and very well might ban me for using it. I'd also keep in mind that in doing so they'd be perfectly within their rights. That they choose not to ban people for using Synergy (or even Innerspace) at the moment is no guarantee that they won't decide to start banning people for using it in the future, nor is it a guarantee that they will find what you're using it for acceptable. And, as such, again, just don't come crying when your fleet of macro miners get banned for using third party software that only 'can' be used for botting.
Cambarus Dead poets society The Laughing Men	Posted - 2010.09.16 04:47:00 - [57] Originally by: King Pleasure Okay, that's wonderful. I wasn't arguing with you about the validity of the program and personally, were I to use a program like Innerspace, I'd use it with the knowledge that it isn't directly supported or sanctioned by CCP and that they can and very well might ban me for using it. I'd also keep in mind that in doing so they'd be perfectly within their rights. That they choose not to ban people for using Synergy (or even Innerspace) at the moment is no guarantee that they won't decide to start banning people for using it in the future, nor is it a guarantee that they will find what you're using it for acceptable. And, as such, again, just don't come crying when your fleet of macro miners get banned for using third party software that only 'can' be used for botting. I've petitioned it, as have others. We have official statements from a senior GM stating that multiboxing programs are allowed. Also stop saying that these programs 'can' be used for botting, because they 'can' not. You need to go out and actually download something separate in order to be able to use it for botting, it's literally exactly the same as saying that windows should not be allowed because you can download third party software for it (note that from a ccp POV, windows IS a third party program, just sayin) PS while CCP is technically allowed to ban you for anything (and that includes not having a reason at all), having petitons in your petition history and official posts on the forums saying something is allowed is a pretty good way of making sure you don't get banned for it. Also qq some more for not being able to afford more than one account :D
King Pleasure	Posted - 2010.09.16 05:04:00 - [58] Originally by: Cambarus Also qq some more for not being able to afford more than one account :D I think everyone knows what they say about assumptions. So I'll leave it at that.
Cambarus Dead poets society The Laughing Men	Posted - 2010.09.16 05:35:00 - [59] Originally by: King Pleasure Windows is the operating system. It's endorsed by CCP for use with EVE. Same with Snow Panther (or whatever the Mac OS is called). Sure, if you want to be semantic about it you could, perhaps call them third party software but there is a fairly big difference between software around which EVE has been created and software that allows you to install modules which can circumvent the designed in-game experience and by extension, 'can' (just because I know you love it so much) be used for automation and more often than not is. It was an extreme example, but a valid one nonetheless. The issue here is that we're not even talking about a program that CAN be used to macro, because neither ISboxer no innerspace come with that functionality. Claiming that they're illegal because there are other, completely separate program that you can download in order to macro is irrelevant. THAT program is illegal, but without actually having a macro-whatever program installed there is no threat of automation, and isboxer is just a keycloner, which CCP have said is legal. Point is: The programs in question are not against the rules. Being able to add things to said programs that would allow them to break rules does not change this. The whole point of the OS comparison was to illustrate how absurd the base idea is by applying it to a more widely used system. A similar example would be a g15 keyboard, some variations of which CAN be used for macroing purposes, but that have still explicitly been OKed by CCP, because unless you actually use it to break the rules, it's not against them.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2010.09.16 09:23:00 - [60] Why are people worried about Innerspace being against the EULA? If it is one must ask one's self, "Is its use enforceable by CCP?". The answer of course is "No". If you use it purely as a convenience for multiple clients in no way will CCP ever know. So why not save yourself some trouble, stop asking if it's legit and just use it. Really, CCP isn't going to show up to your house and beat you senseless. They'll never know. And Tippia, using your logic for Innerspace being in violation of the EULA, so is your computer since it can be used to automate aspects of the game, create additional UI, etc, etc, etc. Perhaps using a computer to play is in violation?
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.09.16 11:21:00 - [61] Originally by: Cambarus Also qq some more for not being able to afford more than one account :D If you paying RL cash for your accounts then your not doing it right.
Dizzy Lizzie	Posted - 2010.09.16 11:26:00 - [62] I am confused, all this program looks like it is doing is setting up mutliple screens for you. Kind of like a mini VPS but all under the same single OS platform. I don't see how that is not allowed as long as you not botting.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.09.16 12:49:00 - [63] hot damn, I want that! I wanna 4box missions loldpsvaporizestuff 4 turret ships each with 1 remote rep, rofflecopter would be great for suicide ganking too, perfectalpha every time!

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