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True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
61
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Posted - 2012.08.30 23:30:00 -
[31] - Quote
Bumping to get more peoples attention and feedback! |
Aineko Macx
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
202
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Posted - 2012.09.01 17:22:00 -
[32] - Quote
+1, naturally.
Of course, this is one of many things the long overdue rework of corp roles and management includes. |
True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
The Paganism Alliance
63
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Posted - 2012.09.26 06:18:00 -
[33] - Quote
Bringing this up again as it continues to be a major limiting factor that seriously needs attention |
Dolm Velith
Velith Family Productions
0
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Posted - 2012.11.13 06:37:00 -
[34] - Quote
I know several of the CSM have commented on the state of corp management in the past, I'd love to hear them weight in on this. *hinthintwinkwinksaynomoresaynomore* |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2937
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Posted - 2012.11.15 09:07:00 -
[35] - Quote
Xantos Semah wrote:Obsidiana wrote:CCP does love it when corp treachery makes the news. That said, it only makes the news it it was a huge theft and a trusted individual. Small corp theft and manufacturing job hissy-fits do not make for an interesting read. Yes I know. But whats important here is to make eve hardcore game for its pvp pew pew style but it has to be as easy as possible to be able to steal few bil isk worth of assets. CCP thinks we are iditots so if we like to steal it has to be easy or we would get bored quickly. And its not just about the news, its about the playerbase.
I think you're a bit mistaken. CCP certainly likes the cold dark universe and that is how it should be, but this isn't what the issue here is and the change doesn't prevent thefts or betrayals. Even in the current game you still need to gain enough trust to gain those roles and you get them after you are trusted, but thefts still happen. The new system doesn't alter this. It just allows the corp to function better and get more players involved. The added security also helps new players to be more easily accepted in to player corps, which is something CCP certainly wants to encourage, since being part of a player corp greatly increases the likelyhood of them subbing to the game long term.
I think the real reason CCP hasn't addressed this and might not do it until the whole system is redone is because the whole corporation management and corporation role system is old(poorly documented, not designed to be easily modifiable, with the original programmer propably not working at CCP anymore) and full of similar problems. This makes fixing it a large project with very serious reprecussions for the game no matter how it turns out. It's similar to the POS system in many ways. Everyone knows the system needs to be upgraded, but it's a huge project, with a high likelyhood of serious problems occuring and a painful transition period even in the best of case scenario. This means CCP is reluctant to touch the system and will only do it when a total redesign is going to take place. |
z Flint
Applied Creations
The Fendahlian Collective
8
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Posted - 2012.11.16 16:55:00 -
[36] - Quote
+1 Good Idea!!!!!!!!! |
Sean Parisi
Project Cerberus
Caldari State Capturing
48
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Posted - 2012.11.19 00:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
The current coding that CCP uses for the role interface / corp interface is limited by its original coding. Because of this it is very difficult for them to add more to the interface. I am pretty sure there are plans in order to deal with this and when they tackle updating the corporation interface and completely reworking it - You will be able to do this.
CCP doesn't get off on making it hard for you to do industry. |
True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
The Paganism Alliance
76
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Posted - 2012.11.20 17:11:00 -
[38] - Quote
Sean Parisi wrote:The current coding that CCP uses for the role interface / corp interface is limited by its original coding. Because of this it is very difficult for them to add more to the interface. I am pretty sure there are plans in order to deal with this and when they tackle updating the corporation interface and completely reworking it - You will be able to do this.
CCP doesn't get off on making it hard for you to do industry.
Never implied there was, I just don't think for this particular case they quite understand the negative impact. I understand the limitations based on the original coding (pretty much 9year old code for this stuff), but if they could jerry-rig a change that you don't need "Factory Manager" in order to install jobs and "Rent Factory Slot/Rent laboratory Slot" would only allow you to deliver your own jobs, then it would be a hugely significant change that would allow industrial corporations to actually exist. |
Jean-Pierre Olenarde
Omni Galactic Resource Excavation Inc.
Tri-Star Galactic Industries
32
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Posted - 2012.11.24 01:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
+1 |
Ronan Connor
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.11.27 10:10:00 -
[40] - Quote
+1 to OP
But I fear that it wont have a chance (see Causality Trailer). They want that betrayal to happen to you.
So its not a flaw in ccp's eyes, its a feature.  |
Elinea Marcutz
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2012.12.07 07:20:00 -
[41] - Quote
While betrayal might be a desired outcome on the part of CCP it should NOT be achieved by ****** UI but by hard won spy effort. |
Elinea Marcutz
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2012.12.07 07:25:00 -
[42] - Quote
Holy spam posting. Browser fail, sorry =( |
True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
The Paganism Alliance
80
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Posted - 2012.12.09 20:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ronan Connor wrote:+1 to OP But I fear that it wont have a chance (see Causality Trailer). They want that betrayal to happen to you. So its not a flaw in ccp's eyes, its a feature.
Yeah I get that point, but from really looking into this case I really feel that it's not covered here. if CCP want a corp of players doing science/manufacturing to lure noobies into the game, engage and involve them so those noobies are more likely to make friends, have fun and start paying for the game then this mechanic needs to change.
I would love to be in the position where the game mechanics would allow for my corporation to build a titan and at the same time, allow some 1month old player to ME research his frigate BPO.
This one single change in mechanics can be summerised in a single statement:
Allow a player with the "Rent Factory Slot" or "Rent Laboratory Slot" to install those respective jobs into corporation facilities, without giving them access to deliver/cancel all jobs currently in production by the corporation
It's clear from the limited number of people replying to this post and no massive outcry that most people don't see the pure significance of the current functionality, how many people may have tried eve and quit based on this single mechanic alone.
Simple question:
Are there ANY "Industrial Corporations" in eve, the real answer is no, there aren't any at all. The cloest thing you could find to an industrialist corporation will be a corp made up of half a dozen players who trust eachother due to RL connections, or long eve histories, these guys do T2 invention, build jump freighter, capital ships, whatever. Their other 50 members are miners, maybe doe a little PI and sell it to the corp
Imagine this change in place, you could have serious industrialist corps, imagine a corp with 500 blueprints locked down, labs and factories in system, a single member of the corp can come along, drop the minerals in a hanger, select to build 10 megathrons, deliver and collect his ships and sell them, or have them get sold through the corp and the corp pays them for their effort.
You could have some seriously active and fun corps and if players are kept that engaged, they are more likely to keep playing for longer. |
Zol Interbottom
Nanotrasen Inc
38
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Posted - 2012.12.29 14:18:00 -
[44] - Quote
how about finally getting custom bloody roles and access like every other MMO under the bloody sun
Nivin Sajjad > we fly perpetually networked, neural interfaced spaceships yet can't communicate coordinates to each other without physically passing back and forth little pieces of paper. it's weird |
AnJuan Jackson
SHUN THE NON BELIEVER
Li3 Federation
39
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Posted - 2013.01.03 23:26:00 -
[45] - Quote
I feel that instead of wasting anymore time improving the inventory UI, the corporation management UI needs the next overhaul.
Supporting this reform and any other thoughts like it. In addition I'd like to see POS roles grantable by individual POS.
Please consider improving the UI for management CCP! Better management = less headaches. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
1515
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Posted - 2013.01.04 17:58:00 -
[46] - Quote
Absolutely +1ing this. This is basic common sense.
Mane 614
|
Devon Krah'tor
Magis.Erudire.Ratus.Knoen
49
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Posted - 2013.01.10 00:28:00 -
[47] - Quote
+1 as an obviously needed update, along with the POS system.
However, realize that to go in and deal with that very old code is extremely difficult and time consuming, hence it gets put on the back burner.
Greater.Insight.Skill.Knowledge |
True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
103
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Posted - 2013.01.13 16:34:00 -
[48] - Quote
Would love for some CSM/Dev feedback at this point, this suggestion has pretty much stayed on the top page since I submitted it and even though its a slow burning thing, its still a serious issue. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate
Sailors of the Sacred Spice
577
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Posted - 2013.01.13 17:18:00 -
[49] - Quote
Devon Krah'tor wrote:+1 as an obviously needed update, along with the POS system.
However, realize that to go in and deal with that very old code is extremely difficult and time consuming, hence it gets put on the back burner.
Actually, it's laziness/lack of resources that were instead put into dust/wod...
Leave the old code as is as inaccessible orphan segments, it's a common practice in mmos that contributes to ballooning of client size, an acceptable side effect. Reimburse obsolete assets. Rewrite new POS mechanics from the ground up. I never liked the pudding with chunks floating in it anyway, it doesn't need to be fixed, it needs to be gone.
Standings Improvement Service
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Balder Verdandi
Czerka.
WHYS0 Expendable
116
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Posted - 2013.01.21 06:16:00 -
[50] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:
Actually, it's laziness/lack of resources that were instead put into dust/wod...
Leave the old code as is as inaccessible orphan segments, it's a common practice in mmos that contributes to ballooning of client size, an acceptable side effect. Reimburse obsolete assets. Rewrite new POS mechanics from the ground up. I never liked the pudding with chunks floating in it anyway, it doesn't need to be fixed, it needs to be gone.
^^ This.
The Unified Inventory debacle is proof of this in my eyes. From May to December 2012 we had to deal with how lacking it was.
The excuse CCP Unifex uses that "a POS revamp would require its own release" is just being used to either hold off until this blows over or not do it at all because when they tried to fix the Unified Inventory it took the release of Retribution to fix it. Sounds to me like they now understand that the UI fix was more than they could handle after the fact, and don't want to have another 6 or 7 month window of POS'es being worse than they are now.
Now, if they went to a modular POS setup most of the in game art and mechanics are already here (please see my post on this here) by using Sansha/Gurista/Serpentis/Angel stations for the art and player owned outposts for the mechanics. Examples would be +1 to dock, +5 to use modPOS services, +10 to run jobs from the personal hangar (either NPC station with skills or from the corporate modPOS). Legacy code could eventually be removed as it wouldn't be used anymore, and it solves the security/access/management problems we all are facing now.
Long live the failure of "Unified Inventory"!
Player Owned Station fix dated back to 2006!
|
BrandonKakta
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.01.21 06:45:00 -
[51] - Quote
Screw Infiltration, I want to have a realistic field of options for providing roles to my members.
CCP already mentioned custom corp hangars, we just need corporations to be revamped altogether.
I'm tired of providing someone a role and they only need to utilize a small portion of it. I don't enjoy losing billions of ISK thanks to a easy click-and-drag, that I knew could happen at any moment, when I only want that member to be making ammo. I should be able to see exactly what I want my member to be able to do, and have options to limit it. There is literately so many ways this could be done! Let me explain.
I'm sure a number of you are familiar with "Conditional Formatting" in spreadsheets: well something like that. You stick in "Starbase Fuel Technician", you have options to specify when and/or where the role will work. We could be talking Specific Towers, Systems, Constellations, Regions, Specific Security Status, Minimum/Maximum ISK levels, When a specific member is in that system.... so many things!
When it comes to corp roles, its trust everyone or trust no-one. Some are stupider than the rest. Some only pretend to know what they are doing. |
Eliniale
co-operative resource extraction
45
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Posted - 2013.01.21 11:58:00 -
[52] - Quote
Great idea,
I've seen similar before but this is neatly summed as to what needs to be fixed asap.
I'm running an industrial corp myself, but I'm not willing to allow any acces to pos if i ever do set one up, as it will be a massive security liability.
Naturally I'd like to see more borked corp roles fixed, but if this at the very least gets fixed we can at least start moving forward.
System ideas: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=191928&find=unread |
True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
108
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 15:05:00 -
[53] - Quote
Eliniale wrote:Great idea,
I've seen similar before but this is neatly summed as to what needs to be fixed asap.
I'm running an industrial corp myself, but I'm not willing to allow any acces to pos if i ever do set one up, as it will be a massive security liability.
Naturally I'd like to see more borked corp roles fixed, but if this at the very least gets fixed we can at least start moving forward.
Completely agree with you, there is a great deal that needs to be fixed :) |
Celly Smunt
Viziam
Amarr Empire
65
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 20:51:00 -
[54] - Quote
+100 from me...
seriously this simple change would alleviate many issues
Bumping for love for roles and linked in https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194625 POS revamp thread
Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal.
Perception is unique in that it can be shared or be singular.
Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself.
A sandwich can be a great motivator. |
Eliniale
co-operative resource extraction
48
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 15:14:00 -
[55] - Quote
Bump<3
System ideas: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=191928&find=unread |
True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
129
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 14:00:00 -
[56] - Quote
*Activate CSM Attention module* |
Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers
Project Wildfire
151
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Posted - 2013.02.18 15:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
+1 but only for "cancel" job - changing delivery isn't needed, only cancelling.
Delivery puts the item into a hangar, and there are already ways of securing hangars, so delivery opening it up to theft is fine.
Restricting delivery would just open up a different problem where someone starts a job with a corp BPO and then nobody can deliver it because they've disappeared, and then fixing that starts turning into bigger changes needed to allow directors or some new role to override it.
That's not needed; the smallest and sufficient fix is:
Quote:"only the job installer or a corp director may cancel a corp industry job"
Given that change then everything else can be managed with the existing corp roles, wallet and hangar mechanics, which are clunky but at least get you several gradations of trust.
As it is, there's no way in at all for thievery and drama for most corps that run big industry jobs, since there's no way to give new members a small amount of trust so they can work their way up to the big stuff, as any trust means access to cancelling everything.
As it is we're in the ridiculous situation where we can't even give our newer members access to build frigates using corp bpos since that opens up cancelling everything; we can't let them earn trust on little things, so it ends up taking a very long time to get to know them before we can give out what should be a basic access level. |
True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
130
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 15:27:00 -
[58] - Quote
Ydnari wrote:As it is we're in the ridiculous situation where we can't even give our newer members access to build frigates using corp bpos since that opens up cancelling everything; we can't let them earn trust on little things, so it ends up taking a very long time to get to know them before we can give out what should be a basic access level.
The biggest shame is that it's been like this since POS was introduced, and no one has ever really considered the impact this has on new player retention.
Just imagine is a corp could recruit some guy who's trying out eve, give him access to blueprints and let the guy build frigates and cruisers from the corps BPO's, get people involved in an entirely different aspect of eve that otherwise, requires either their own investment and finding public slots or, creating their own alt corp. |
Celly Smunt
Viziam
Amarr Empire
106
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 03:47:00 -
[59] - Quote
True Sight wrote:The biggest shame is that it's been like this since POS was introduced, and no one has ever really considered the impact this has on new player retention.
Just imagine is a corp could recruit some guy who's trying out eve, give him access to blueprints and let the guy build frigates and cruisers from the corps BPO's, get people involved in an entirely different aspect of eve that otherwise, requires either their own investment and finding public slots or, creating their own alt corp.
I was fortunate in that when I started, I joined a group of folks I played a different game with and therefore had already earned their trust, I (my main) would not be the industrialist I am today if not for early access to build stuff.
i mean it's not really that hard to make it be
CEO & Director = can cancel anything
Regular corp member = can cancel their own jobs only.
is it?
o/
Celly
Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal.
Perception is unique in that it can be shared or be singular.
Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself.
A sandwich can be a great motivator. |
Talleria Lange
Phenox Industries
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 12:09:00 -
[60] - Quote
+1 from me as well.
I have been the CEO of my own small solo corp for a while as well as a part of one mid sized industrial corp. While I did gain their trust over time and am still on good terms with them I have felt that its hard for new players to get involved with industry as the cost of BPOs are too high for a new player to afford with out resorting to selling PLEXs.
If I as a CEO could allow access to use a BPO from the corp hanger but not take it out of the hanger and have it returnd to the same hanger when the job is done but the finished product is delivered to the players personal hanger that would be great. I feel that would help open up more industry corps to new players and get them involved with more than just mining.
I know how boring mining is for a lot of people and I would have liked to get more involved with production sooner. How ever with the trust level you need to achieve in order for a corp to allow you access to their BPOs you would have to be in the corp for close to a year in most cases and generaly longer.
I have no experiance however with POSs on a corp or personal level so I cant say one way or another there but there does need to be a better scalable roll system for corps to use. That way CEOs and Directors have more tools at their desposial for finding out who they can trust.
I dont think CCP will close all the loop-holes for corp theft but maybe make them smaller and give us better tools to work with for corp roll managment.
Talleria Lange CEO Phenox Industries |
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