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New Dev Blog: The API Dev Blog Trilogy - Volume Two

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 10 post(s)

CCP Fallout	Posted - 2010.09.22 15:22:00 - [1] CCP PrismX continues the "API Dev Blog" trilogy with his updates on how the API will switch, in part, from 32- to 64-bit integers with Tyrannis 1.2. You can read about it here. Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us

EliteSlave Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.09.22 15:24:00 - [2] swiftsniping this, I actually look forward to these API changes :D

CCP Prism X Gallente C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.22 15:31:00 - [3] Originally by: EliteSlave swiftsniping this, I actually look forward to these API changes :D I have received reports that this is not a proper swiftsnipe! ~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006. Relocating your cozy, secure container to the EVE cemetery since 2008.

EliteSlave Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.09.22 15:38:00 - [4] Originally by: CCP Prism X Originally by: EliteSlave swiftsniping this, I actually look forward to these API changes :D I have received reports that this is not a proper swiftsnipe! I have received reports that this expansion incursion does not have a proper cyno field effect / jump effect. <3
Jameroz Echoes of Space	Posted - 2010.09.22 15:38:00 - [5] 64-bit in MY EVE?!?!? At times like these you just got to love dynamically typed languages
VaL Iscariot Missions Mining and Mayhem Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2010.09.22 16:03:00 - [6] ಠ_ಠ I AM the facebook of sex
Liol Wongsta The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.09.22 16:05:00 - [7] ಠ_ಠ
ForceM Gallente POS Builder Inc. Silent Requiem	Posted - 2010.09.22 16:10:00 - [8] Originally by: EliteSlave Originally by: CCP Prism X Originally by: EliteSlave swiftsniping this, I actually look forward to these API changes :D I have received reports that this is not a proper swiftsnipe! I have received reports that this expansion incursion does not have a proper cyno field effect / jump effect. <3 i see and aprove what you did there :) ontopic .. any improvement try to EVE gets my aproval -----
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy Spreadsheets Online	Posted - 2010.09.22 16:45:00 - [9] A 64bit integer is required to accurately describe how awesome I am. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe.
Raquel Smith Caldari Freedom-Technologies Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr	Posted - 2010.09.22 16:47:00 - [10] Originally by: CCP Fallout CCP PrismX continues the "API Dev Blog" trilogy with his updates on how the API will switch, in part, from 32- to 64-bit integers with Tyrannis 1.2. You can read about it here. Why not GUIDs? Also, How about a DTD for the API? -- Creator of The Ruby API Library
Hiro Logos	Posted - 2010.09.22 16:55:00 - [11] Edited by: Hiro Logos on 22/09/2010 16:55:57 Originally by: Raquel Smith Why not GUIDs? Every time you waste a GUID, God kills a kitten. Also, GUIDs don't index well in databases.

CCP Prism X Gallente C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.22 17:06:00 - [12] Originally by: Hiro Logos Every time you waste a GUID, God kills a kitten. Also, GUIDs don't index well in databases. For the sake of the discussion: One can make a case for using GUIDs, a very low fill factor and good maintenance processes and thus avoiding page splits like there's no tomorrow at the cost of ridiculous wastes of space. If that's something that your application usage pattern would gain from doing I wouldn't say you shouldn't do it because it uses GUIDs. Your statement is however completely right. This and many other factors contribute to us avoiding them like the plague. I just wanted to (post more) mention that there is never any silver bullet in this world. There's always a case for the usage of tools or else they wouldn't exist. ~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006. Relocating your cozy, secure container to the EVE cemetery since 2008.

Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.22 17:09:00 - [13] Will we have access to EFT and EVEMON after this is released, and if not will they be modified or an ingame equivilant be created! Also I play on a laptop will the jump to 64bit create more client side lag! -- Alara's Law! As an online discussion on EVE ships grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Dominix approaches 1
kano donn Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2010.09.22 17:17:00 - [14] sry i know nothing about API but reading that post i saw a little comment... dust 514 will introduce a new type of character. what do you mean by that?
Tsabrock Gallente Circle of Friends	Posted - 2010.09.22 17:21:00 - [15] Edited by: Tsabrock on 22/09/2010 17:22:59 Originally by: CCP Fallout CCP PrismX continues the "API Dev Blog" trilogy with his updates on how the API will switch, in part, from 32- to 64-bit integers with Tyrannis 1.2. You can read about it here. Tyrannis 1.2? I assume then that these changes will take place before Incursion then? Also, what else might we see in Tyrannis 1.2? Perhaps some of the much-needed improvements to Planetary Interactions? p.s. What ever happened to the rest of the overhaul of the Salvage system, that was detailed a couple years ago? --- If you've read something I posted and want to contact me, EVE-Mail me, or contact me via EVE Gate.
Drakarian Dreddit	Posted - 2010.09.22 17:22:00 - [16] Bigint ftw! In all the db's I design I always use Bigint for the keys. Doesn't mater if it's just a lookup table, you have piece of mind that you'll never have to worry about doing migrations to different field types, and from the application perspective it's easier to code if everything is Int64.

CCP Prism X Gallente C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.22 17:31:00 - [17] Edited by: CCP Prism X on 22/09/2010 17:34:41 Edited by: CCP Prism X on 22/09/2010 17:32:38 DUST 514 was only mentioned to explain why we are doing this. I am absolutely not working on DUST 514 and will not comment a single bit on that as it would all be conjecture or, at the least, subject to change. I will however state that I was only referring to the player characters of DUST 514 not any new character types in EVE. I would like to ask you to please stick to discussions regarding the API. I really cannot comment on the work of my co-workers or imply what it is they are doing. It wouldn't be proper of me. I can be improper in all sorts of other ways but I do not promise work into the hands of others. I hope you understand. Edit: Removing a redundant "However". By golly do I like that word! ~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006. Relocating your cozy, secure container to the EVE cemetery since 2008.

Tribal Solidarity Sacred Templars Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.22 18:36:00 - [18] Originally by: Jameroz 64-bit in MY EVE?!?!? At times like these you just got to love dynamically typed languages Looooooooool. Yeah, sometimes I'm very happy I write Python.
Lutz Major Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo	Posted - 2010.09.22 18:39:00 - [19] Quote: Look out for the incoming final volume of the API Dev Blog Trilogy in the near future. This will detail the new additions as well as updates that make everybody's life easier! Do we get blueprint attribute support? Do we? Do we?
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.09.22 18:53:00 - [20] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Will we have access to EFT and EVEMON after this is released, and if not will they be modified or an ingame equivilant be created? You have to ask the DEveloper/Coder/Maintainer of those software (CCP didn't make them) to get an answer on that. This Blog is a heads-up for exactly those guys and all the others like EveMEEP, the Killboards, Eve-Metrics ect pp.. Originally by: Alara IonStorm Also I play on a laptop will the jump to 64bit create more client side lag? It's won't add lag in measurable amounts as: 1) this mostly affects the database itself 2) if your client does query something from the db that was 32bit and is now 64bit it for sure wont have anything to do with fleet-fights
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2010.09.22 18:56:00 - [21] Nice blog! Even I understood a bit, and that should say something already :-)
T'Amber Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.09.22 19:08:00 - [22] SHARE TRACKING THROUGH API. pees? [SoE:UTU] Win a rare ship for 10mil
Firartix	Posted - 2010.09.22 19:12:00 - [23] Getting more space for item storage and stuff sure is nice but, i'm a little concerned about something... What about the lag and stuff ? I mean the current lag is more related to combat stuff (therefore i guess not too much to that kind of change) - but in general ? Won't having twice longer numbers slow average operation time on... uh...... other stuff ?
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.09.22 19:32:00 - [24] Originally by: Tres Farmer Answers Thx! -- Alara's Law! As an online discussion on EVE ships grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Dominix approaches 1
Shirley Serious Amarr The Khanid Sisters of Athra	Posted - 2010.09.22 21:15:00 - [25] \o/ I think this answers a question I asked in probably the wrong forum. Yaay for PrismX Yes. Yes, I am.
Selene D'Celeste Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six	Posted - 2010.09.22 22:38:00 - [26] Nothing groundbreaking, but good for forward-thinking in design. ______________________________
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.09.22 22:40:00 - [27] Very nice - I'm glad to see some maintenance being done to give you guys some breathing room. Good job - and thanks for the updates! -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Taedrin Gallente White Haven Corp	Posted - 2010.09.22 22:57:00 - [28] Horray for Prism X - need moar tech blahghs! ---------- Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident" Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.

CCP Explorer	Posted - 2010.09.22 23:24:00 - [29] Originally by: Tsabrock Originally by: CCP Fallout CCP PrismX continues the "API Dev Blog" trilogy with his updates on how the API will switch, in part, from 32- to 64-bit integers with Tyrannis 1.2. You can read about it here. Tyrannis 1.2? I assume then that these changes will take place before Incursion then? Also, what else might we see in Tyrannis 1.2? Perhaps some of the much-needed improvements to Planetary Interactions? p.s. What ever happened to the rest of the overhaul of the Salvage system, that was detailed a couple years ago? Indeed, according to current plans then this change will be deployed in Tyrannis 1.2 in late October, about a month before the EVE Online: Incursion expansion is released. Tyrannis 1.2 will only contain a 64-bit Inventory System (as well as other wider data types as detailed in CCP Prism X's dev blog). There are more details about the Inventory System in the "Apocrypha 1.3" subsection of this dev blog. If all goes according to plan then the only immediate impact of Tyrannis 1.2 to players is the change to the EVE API and SDE. The purpose of this engineering change is to future-proof EVE. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games


CCP Explorer	Posted - 2010.09.22 23:29:00 - [30] Originally by: Firartix Getting more space for item storage and stuff sure is nice but, i'm a little concerned about something... What about the lag and stuff ? I mean the current lag is more related to combat stuff (therefore i guess not too much to that kind of change) - but in general ? Won't having twice longer numbers slow average operation time on... uh...... other stuff ? We have been and will continue to performance measure this change. The EVE Database, EVE Server, the operating system and computers we use are already all 64-bit so we are expanding to the "native" computational unit. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games


CCP Explorer	Posted - 2010.09.22 23:34:00 - [31] Originally by: Shirley Serious I think this answers a question I asked in probably the wrong forum. You probably asked in the right forum there. We are not running out of space right now but we regularly recycle itemIDs, which we want to stop doing. Also, with Incarna we know we will be risking running out of 32-bit space, therefore we are deploying this now to enable Incarna. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games

Zendoren Aktaeon Industries	Posted - 2010.09.23 00:57:00 - [32] Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: Shirley Serious I think this answers a question I asked in probably the wrong forum. You probably asked in the right forum there. We are not running out of space right now but we regularly recycle itemIDs, which we want to stop doing. Also, with Incarna we know we will be risking running out of 32-bit space, therefore we are deploying this now to enable Incarna. So is this a step towards a way to distinguish BPOs and BPCs?
Lucyna Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises	Posted - 2010.09.23 05:36:00 - [33] Originally by: Zendoren Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: Shirley Serious I think this answers a question I asked in probably the wrong forum. You probably asked in the right forum there. We are not running out of space right now but we regularly recycle itemIDs, which we want to stop doing. Also, with Incarna we know we will be risking running out of 32-bit space, therefore we are deploying this now to enable Incarna. So is this a step towards a way to distinguish BPOs and BPCs? This. We want to see more functionallity of reporting the game how it currently is. We want contract API, we want distinguishing of BPO and BPC, we want better wallet reporting, like shares, etc. _________ Eve - for when I'm not playing minecraft ;)
Snorre Sturlasson	Posted - 2010.09.23 05:57:00 - [34] This is a good decision. I wondered already how CCP managed itemids with only 32bit. Remind that 32bit including only numbers from 0 to 4.2billion (unsigned). If one think about only the countless transactions every day in Jita it's not really much.
Xavier Linx	Posted - 2010.09.23 08:07:00 - [35] Few things make me as happy as seeing work done on the Eve API. Keep up the good work.
Bozenski	Posted - 2010.09.23 08:25:00 - [36] Included in this reply, free of any additional charge, is the standardized look of approval for your copy/pasting needs: =D
Mono Loco	Posted - 2010.09.23 11:10:00 - [37] Correct me if I am wrong, but as long as you (CCP) don't use IDs above the Int32-space applications won't break (?). So lifting all applications to tyrannis 1.2+ static exports and code changes may be delayed without breaking functionality until you (again CCP) run out of Int32-space for itemz?

CCP Prism X Gallente C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.23 12:49:00 - [38] Originally by: Mono Loco Correct me if I am wrong, but as long as you (CCP) don't use IDs above the Int32-space applications won't break (?). So lifting all applications to tyrannis 1.2+ static exports and code changes may be delayed without breaking functionality until you (again CCP) run out of Int32-space for itemz? As I said in the blog it's application specific. I cannot really comment on code I do not know. For example if you're working in a strongly typed language and your code is fetching an Int16 from a rowset and that ordinal is actually an Int32 in the SDE you will get errors regardless of the actual value. On the API side all values are returned as XML elements. If the application is working with them all as strings and never casts them to anything you'll get no conversion exceptions. If you cast a value from a string to an x-bit type everything will be alright as long as the numeric representation of the string fits into those x-bits but as soon as it does not you'll get a conversion exception. And that's the reason for this blog and why it is dedicated to this change alone. It's not up to us whether anything breaks or not. All we can do is give you timely heads-up. ~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006. Relocating your cozy, secure container to the EVE cemetery since 2008.


CCP Explorer	Posted - 2010.09.23 13:18:00 - [39] Originally by: Mono Loco Correct me if I am wrong, but as long as you (CCP) don't use IDs above the Int32-space applications won't break (?). So lifting all applications to tyrannis 1.2+ static exports and code changes may be delayed without breaking functionality until you (again CCP) run out of Int32-space for itemz? Adding to CCP Prism X's reply above, then I would recommend that 3rd party application developers update their apps as soon as possible. You can update your apps right away even if you are then for a short period of time using wider data types then we are actually returning from the API. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games

Mynxee	Posted - 2010.09.23 20:42:00 - [40] Nicely written blog, PrismX! Life In Low Sec
Receg Varion Galactic OWN Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.24 07:31:00 - [41] ಠ_ಠ ----- We all have a photographic memory, it's just some of us don't have film.
Hel O'Ween Men On A Mission	Posted - 2010.09.24 10:12:00 - [42] Good blog. And very good that we get a notification of such changes before they get released. This surely safes us from "WTF?" moments that happened when the wallet journal refID changed to 64 bit unnoticed in Apocrypha. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager
Usul Atreides	Posted - 2010.09.24 19:26:00 - [43] The forum compels me to disapprove. I shall obey. ಠ_ಠ
Yalluto Gallente Ascenda Group	Posted - 2010.09.25 03:12:00 - [44] What is the standardized look of approval, I need that for my copying/pasting needs :) I'm really glad that I stumbled upon this dev blog before starting my API app, will save me much time when I'm writing from scratch.
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.09.28 06:38:00 - [45] Edited by: Verite Rendition on 28/09/2010 06:39:35 Thanks for the heads up. Just to be clear, when you say that locations are considered item IDs, does that include SolarSystemIDs as used by MapSolarSystems and the like? Basically I need to know whether future solar systems, constellations, and regions (if you do a Black Rise again) are going to be 32bit INTs, or if I need to tweak the influence map to use and store 64bit INTs there. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Null-Sec Player Influence Map http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Veritefw/FWinf

CCP Prism X Gallente C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.09.28 11:56:00 - [46] Edited by: CCP Prism X on 28/09/2010 11:56:46 Originally by: Verite Rendition Edited by: Verite Rendition on 28/09/2010 06:39:35 Thanks for the heads up. Just to be clear, when you say that locations are considered item IDs, does that include SolarSystemIDs as used by MapSolarSystems and the like? Basically I need to know whether future solar systems, constellations, and regions (if you do a Black Rise again) are going to be 32bit INTs, or if I need to tweak the influence map to use and store 64bit INTs there. In the SDE's mapSolarSystem the locationIDs will remain as 32-bit integers as mentioned in the Dev Blog. We will also ensure the data in that specific table will remain 32-bit. But as soon as the table has to accommodate shipIDs as locationIDs it will obviously return them as 64-bit, even though I just promised you that systemIDs will never exceed the 32-bit range, as other rows have to support 64 bit ints. Makes sense? Edit: For proper closing of bold tag. ~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006. Relocating your cozy, secure container to the EVE cemetery since 2008.

Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.09.28 21:14:00 - [47] Originally by: CCP Prism X Edited by: CCP Prism X on 28/09/2010 11:56:46 Originally by: Verite Rendition Edited by: Verite Rendition on 28/09/2010 06:39:35 Thanks for the heads up. Just to be clear, when you say that locations are considered item IDs, does that include SolarSystemIDs as used by MapSolarSystems and the like? Basically I need to know whether future solar systems, constellations, and regions (if you do a Black Rise again) are going to be 32bit INTs, or if I need to tweak the influence map to use and store 64bit INTs there. In the SDE's mapSolarSystem the locationIDs will remain as 32-bit integers as mentioned in the Dev Blog. We will also ensure the data in that specific table will remain 32-bit. But as soon as the table has to accommodate shipIDs as locationIDs it will obviously return them as 64-bit, even though I just promised you that systemIDs will never exceed the 32-bit range, as other rows have to support 64 bit ints. Makes sense? Edit: For proper closing of bold tag. Yep. That's just the answer I needed. Thanks Prism X. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Null-Sec Player Influence Map http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Veritefw/FWinf
Gehnster Gallente Domini Umbrus	Posted - 2010.09.30 16:02:00 - [48] Any plans to change the format of the API to not have the root element inside of the root element anywhere?
Bloody Bolt	Posted - 2010.10.04 14:30:00 - [49] I liked the most this part: "free of any additional charge, is the standardized look of disapproval for your copy/pasting needs: ಠ_ಠ"

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