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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
509
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Posted - 2012.07.31 14:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why not go to a wormhole if you want to spend all day scanning systems with cov ops ships and warping to gank people?
Wormholes have very little pvp and the pvp they have is rarely what anyone would consider a good fight. The lack of local has allot to do with that.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
509
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Posted - 2012.07.31 14:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Cearain wrote:Why not go to a wormhole if you want to spend all day scanning systems with cov ops ships and warping to gank people?
Wormholes have very little pvp and the pvp they have is rarely what anyone would consider a good fight. The lack of local has allot to do with that. I am fairly certain the wormhole pilots would not agree with you. There is more to a good fight than running across someone making horrible choices. People making bad choices in wormholes soon find themselves outside the WH in a med clone. The people who are cunning or clever tend to have the choice on whether to stay. Quite an effective filter, really.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but they are not entitled to thier own facts. Fact is wormholes have drastically less pvp per pilot and per system than low and null sec.
But what you consider is a bad choice is your opinion. What you call good choices is probably what I would call tedious risk aversion for fear of losing your ship. @ 90% of eve thinks that makes for boring gameplay so they stay out of wormholes.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
510
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Posted - 2012.07.31 18:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Cearain wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:Cearain wrote:Why not go to a wormhole if you want to spend all day scanning systems with cov ops ships and warping to gank people?
Wormholes have very little pvp and the pvp they have is rarely what anyone would consider a good fight. The lack of local has allot to do with that. I am fairly certain the wormhole pilots would not agree with you. There is more to a good fight than running across someone making horrible choices. People making bad choices in wormholes soon find themselves outside the WH in a med clone. The people who are cunning or clever tend to have the choice on whether to stay. Quite an effective filter, really. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but they are not entitled to thier own facts. Fact is wormholes have drastically less pvp per pilot and per system than low and null sec. But what you consider is a bad choice is your opinion. What you call good choices is probably what I would call tedious risk aversion for fear of losing your ship. @ 90% of eve thinks that makes for boring gameplay so they stay out of wormholes. .... The reality of the situation is that outside of wormholes .....
We are now in the part of "nerf local thread" where lots of carebears tell us how pvp works and why nerfing local will only make pvp (something they don't actually do) better.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
510
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Posted - 2012.07.31 18:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Cearain wrote:We are now in the part of "nerf local thread" where lots of carebears tell us how pvp works and why nerfing local will only make pvp (something they don't actually do) better. Ad hominem, got it. I must be a carebear, so anything I say must be clueless garbage. For someone interested in facts, you seem quite ready to jump onto assumptions when it suits your needs. I would respect your view more if you just stated you disagree. You are entitled to your opinion. Taking cheap shots discredits your argument more than you realize.
I do not consider calling someone a carebear an attack. Its just that you play the game different than pvpers. It would be the same thing if I started telling everyone how industry would be better if this or that change were made. (BTW I don't do industry)
There is a reason why so much more pvp happens in null and low sec than in wormholes and local has allot to do with that. Explaining that to someone who doesn't pvp is not a task I am going to take on again. These "nerf local" threads pop up like mushrooms and every time there are people who don't pvp telling us how it will help pvp.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
510
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Posted - 2012.07.31 18:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Cearain wrote:I do not consider calling someone a carebear an attack. Its just that you play the game different than pvpers. There is no ' you' defined in this context. Your assumption that I lack PvP experience because I disagree with you is my point. You have no way of knowing what I know about the game. Don't make assumptions so quickly.
Is this you?
http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=43276
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
510
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 19:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Cearain wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:Cearain wrote:I do not consider calling someone a carebear an attack. Its just that you play the game different than pvpers. There is no ' you' defined in this context. Your assumption that I lack PvP experience because I disagree with you is my point. You have no way of knowing what I know about the game. Don't make assumptions so quickly. Is this you? http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=43276 More specifically, that is one of my alts. ...... I have no interest in providing details on alts, ....
I'm sure you don't.
Like I said, lots of "lets nerf local" threads filled with posters with similar killboards to yours telling everyone how pvp works and how nerfing local will improve pvp. I think allot of pvpers just get tired of explaining how local helps people find good fights, avoid blobs, and generally leads to more pvp. But whatever carry on.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
516
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Posted - 2012.08.03 13:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:Lets keep away from personal attacks and actually talk about the thread, your attempts to derail the OP by selecting particular aspects of Nikk's threads are an obvious and childish way of changing the subject.
Pointing out that he has no experience in pvp and therefore has little understanding of how local works to promote pvp is not a personal attack. Iits just a fact. Its also a fact that the nerf local threads are almost always supported by people who have very little pvp experience other than a few whose killboards are full of ganking transports and pve ships.
Again this is not a personal attack it is just pointing out a fact. look for yourself.
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:You disagree and you use WH's as an example of how no local decreases PVP. But you are just taking one aspect of WH's and applying the answer you want to hear as a conclusion. When I look at the data I see something completely different, WH's have major barriers to PVP that I will list.
- No local means that PVP engagements take dedicated effort to find targets. (your only point)
And people who have little experience in pvp rarely understand the significance of this.
But that is not my only point of nerfing local will hurt pvp. There are pleny of reasons why. Read all the other nerf local threads to see how it will lead to blobs and a reduction in skill of piloting. Its just a bad idea and its always mainly people who don't do pvp or people who just gank carebears that want it changed.
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:
- Nonstatic/collapsing entries into systems prevents quick reinforcements
This is good and bad. often times knowing a side will get reinforcements deters pvp.
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:
- Lack of stations to provide medical clones for quick reshipping
LOL this is a non issue. its not like people move their clone facitlity to the system everytime they fight.
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:
- Extreme difficulty of logistics to replace lost ships quickly
Isnt' this your first point? I don't know that the difficulty is that extreme either. Few fights involve multiple reships anyway. Sso this is minor at best.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
516
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 13:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:
- Lack of population due to the difficulties of living in a WH
Drastically less pvp per person. so this is taken into account. The biggest difference is no local. And most people dont like it. so why force it on the rest of eve?
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:
- Lack of targets due to corps not being online (many corps only play during one TZ, this means that you may find an inhabitated WH but all the natives are offline)
Oh the other areas of space people never sleep or work?? Nice difference between wormholes and other places.
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:
- No cyno fields to allow for hotdrops
This promotes pvp as much as it hurts. People who don't pvp may not understand that. But constant hotdrops is not something that really promotes pvp.
So after going through your quibbling points the main reason we don't have pvp in wormholes is the no local.
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:
Have a nice day,
Gerrick
You too.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
521
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Posted - 2012.08.06 14:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Cearain wrote:Pointing out that he has no experience in pvp and therefore has little understanding of how local works to promote pvp is not a personal attack. Iits just a fact. Its also a fact that the nerf local threads are almost always supported by people who have very little pvp experience other than a few whose killboards are full of ganking transports and pve ships.
Again this is not a personal attack it is just pointing out a fact. look for yourself. This alt actually has decent combat experience. I am the guy flying that logi keeping the other ships alive. I am the guy in a cloaked scout warning and advising my fleet on enemy presence. I am the support guy. It says more about the limits to your own experience that you seem to assume PvP cannot exist without more kill mails and losses.
Ah I see at first you didn't want to discuss what combat experience you had. Nor did you want to post with your main. You just wanted us to believe that some other character had all this pvp experience. Ok right not the first.
But now all of a sudden you are the logi pilot and you have "decent combat experience" with this character. Except when we look at your killboard we see you never lost a ship with a remote repper fit to it. Hmm.
I guess all your "combat experience" is being a cloaky scout for your carebear buddies.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
521
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 14:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:Cearain wrote:Pointing out that he has no experience in pvp and therefore has little understanding of how local works to promote pvp is not a personal attack. Iits just a fact. Its also a fact that the nerf local threads are almost always supported by people who have very little pvp experience other than a few whose killboards are full of ganking transports and pve ships.
Again this is not a personal attack it is just pointing out a fact. look for yourself. I will stop you right there, Nikk makes some very good points, you also seemed to ignore one of the points of my post in order to make it so you don't sound completely ignorant. He flies logistics and covops scouts. I can imagine that his scanning skills are pretty decent too....
Yeah we may need to "imagine" quite a bit about his pvp. He claims he gets allot of combat experience as a logistics pilot. In my experience logistics are called primary quite quickly. Yet he never lost a ship with a repper fit to it.
As for skipping arguments I pretty much addressed everything you said and now you just sort of drop that. I don't blame you, because the arguments you made were bad.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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