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Is is useful to know who your competitors/customers/suppliers are?

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Marshiro	Posted - 2010.09.27 01:55:00 - [1] So, folks have been buying/selling one unit of my stuff to figure out who is behind those orders. That said, is it at all useful to know which toons are behind the trades? Or it is mainly a waste of time behind the legion of alts that make up jita? Has anyone gotten any sort of nice deals and information off knowing the other traders in the market? Nice as it the isk rewards beats the hassle (and time) of...dealing with a unknown hostile! goes to inject interwebz convo lv.1
Rykker Bow Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.09.27 02:25:00 - [2] yes, that kind of info is very useful in trading. Both in determining who the competition is/how they trade and in making business connections. know thy enemy
Oso Jinoki	Posted - 2010.09.27 02:50:00 - [3] Originally by: Rykker Bow yes, that kind of info is very useful in trading. Both in determining who the competition is/how they trade and in making business connections. know thy enemy Unless you're talking about a large hub, and you're just one of thousands of traders (i.e. Jita). There are just too many traders, using multiple accounts, to even try. You might be able to notice a unique trader when large sways happen, but other than that, a single individual is just static in the noise.
Rasz Lin Caldari Racketeers	Posted - 2010.09.27 04:15:00 - [4] Very useful, especially if you know market manipulators and want to hitch a free ride on their backs (and wallets).
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.09.27 06:55:00 - [5] It's useful in smaller markets and expecially outside of Jita. I used to update my orders the moment the 2-3 nasty ones would log off. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Cista2 Hydra Investment Fund	Posted - 2010.09.27 07:02:00 - [6] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I used to update my orders the moment the 2-3 nasty ones would log off. Hehe, that's wicked In Jita I never check who my competitors are anymore. ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / Hydra Fund / LLSE Stock Market
Forum Speaker	Posted - 2010.09.27 08:44:00 - [7] Originally by: Marshiro So, folks have been buying/selling one unit of my stuff to figure out who is behind those orders. That said, is it at all useful to know which toons are behind the trades? Or it is mainly a waste of time behind the legion of alts that make up jita? Has anyone gotten any sort of nice deals and information off knowing the other traders in the market? Nice as it the isk rewards beats the hassle (and time) of...dealing with a unknown hostile! It can be interesting sometimes. We were playing cut 0.01 isk game once at Jita, and somebody messaged me saying it is he who plays the game with me, but he is a manufacturer instead of a trader, and he has very high quantities of this item waiting 6 jump away from Jita. He said he would offer them to me at a very good price, if I was willing to do the hauling. It ended being a good deal for both of us. I got a very good price on the item, and lost a competitor while earning a supplier. He also had a chance to make profit without bothering with cutting prices, hauling items, babystting orders etc.. Sometimes there are good endings in these stories
clixoras	Posted - 2010.09.27 09:07:00 - [8] You'll be surprised how little traders trade even in high volume items outside Jita. For some particular popular item(s) i identified 3 traders (including me) in Rens. The advantage is also that you start to know their patterns (TZ's)*. That said, if you know you're dealing with some russians. You can better move one, these people don't get any sleep and don't care about margins apparantly. * to indentify log behaviour i installed an automated screengrabber program with takes screenshots every x seconds/minutes :)
Rykker Bow Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.09.27 11:59:00 - [9] Edited by: Rykker Bow on 27/09/2010 12:01:50 I'll buy items when I see patterns emerging to see if I can nail down specific traders. Finding a competetors patterns is always fun. Some of the easy patterns to find are the silly traders who always end their prices with a certain number, there was one who did it at .66 for all his items AND would update his items in alphabetical order every time. I'd wait till he updated the first 'A' item and follow right behind him.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.09.27 15:54:00 - [10] I've generally had good luck talking to most traders. There are some good points raised above but I'll add another angle. A great many competitors realize that there is more profit in creating a bigger pie than trying to grab more of a smaller pie for themselves. I have devided markets by station, negotiated minimum prices for a region, and divied up who would sell what items in a station to make it a mini-hub and keep us from needing to update orders. There are the nut-cakes who prefer to make a run at more of a smaller pie though.
Grozen Caldari Bite me inc. SRS.	Posted - 2010.09.27 16:44:00 - [11] Its very usefull yea many times it has helped me with my market manipulation like talking my competitor to hold his price lowering for a bit etc.Also i have a hobby to compile a list of producers on the items i trade i buy 1 and i add them.Then i go look out where their pos and i write up what structures they have there.The list is getting quite big atm and i'm not sure what to do after i breach the 100ppl mark knowledge is power
flakeys DRAMA Inc	Posted - 2010.09.27 18:12:00 - [12] Originally by: Cista2 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I used to update my orders the moment the 2-3 nasty ones would log off. Hehe, that's wicked In Jita I never check who my competitors are anymore. I allways used the same strategy for regional orders.Update about half your orders when competition comes online.Wait till they have updated theirs and log off thinking they have the trade in their pocket for the next X hours and then update all my orders. If one thing is good to get rid of competition it is kowing they spend an hour every night updating to find out the next day only 10 minutes later their orders got outbid.Repeat this for a week and half your competition doesn't even update their orders any more.Had it a few times happening to myself too though and found out it really is a *****
HH44K	Posted - 2010.09.27 19:09:00 - [13] I must comment here. If other trader uses alts to hide if he is on line or off line, these moves do no good for you. Smart trader will use market alt only for buy and sell and for industry he will use the industrial alt. This is like the proxy servers. The trader who buys things and sells things to get name gets only alt name. Industry alt watches market when he logs off trader alt. He sees you change the order. He waits for you to log off. He comes back.
Commander Godsmack	Posted - 2010.09.27 19:36:00 - [14] Edited by: Commander Godsmack on 27/09/2010 19:37:05 Is it just me or have any of you guys noticed that one person that just absolutely has to have a "666" in their stock bid/sell price and even sometimes taking it a step further to have a whole string(s) of 666's - like they trying to send a message or something?
Lucyna Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises	Posted - 2010.09.27 20:40:00 - [15] Knowing who your competitors are is useful for several things, one being you can wardec them :D _________ Eve - for when I'm not playing minecraft ;)
HH44K	Posted - 2010.09.27 20:45:00 - [16] Originally by: Lucyna Knowing who your competitors are is useful for several things, one being you can wardec them :D This why you use market alt only. Dec my trader alt please. You can stare at my avatar on 4-4 guest list for many years.
Gabriel Virtus hirr	Posted - 2010.09.28 09:38:00 - [17] Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 28/09/2010 09:40:00 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha It's useful in smaller markets and expecially outside of Jita. I used to update my orders the moment the 2-3 nasty ones would log off. I thought you claimed that you don't trade? Interesting... @OP - of course this is great information, one reason VV noted, another is that you can pose a significant threat to these institions. A few suicide ganks of a rival competitor when he logs on might make him think twice! -GV
RAW23	Posted - 2010.09.28 09:48:00 - [18] Originally by: Gabriel Virtus Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 28/09/2010 09:40:00 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha It's useful in smaller markets and expecially outside of Jita. I used to update my orders the moment the 2-3 nasty ones would log off. I thought you claimed that you don't trade? Interesting... Again, I would suggest you read more carefully. "Don't trade" is in the present tense, "used to" is in the past tense. There is no conflict at all between saying one does not trade and then talking about what one "used to" do when trading.
Gabriel Virtus hirr	Posted - 2010.09.28 09:50:00 - [19] Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 28/09/2010 09:51:29 Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Gabriel Virtus Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 28/09/2010 09:40:00 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha It's useful in smaller markets and expecially outside of Jita. I used to update my orders the moment the 2-3 nasty ones would log off. I thought you claimed that you don't trade? Interesting... Again, I would suggest you read more carefully. "Don't trade" is in the present tense, "used to" is in the past tense. There is no conflict at all between saying one does not trade and then talking about what one "used to" do when trading. No way bro! cool story! You should check out "sarcasm" in the dictionary. -GV
RAW23	Posted - 2010.09.28 09:53:00 - [20] Originally by: Gabriel Virtus Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 28/09/2010 09:51:29 Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Gabriel Virtus Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 28/09/2010 09:40:00 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha It's useful in smaller markets and expecially outside of Jita. I used to update my orders the moment the 2-3 nasty ones would log off. I thought you claimed that you don't trade? Interesting... Again, I would suggest you read more carefully. "Don't trade" is in the present tense, "used to" is in the past tense. There is no conflict at all between saying one does not trade and then talking about what one "used to" do when trading. No way bro! cool story! You should check out "sarcasm" in the dictionary. -GV If that was supposed to be sarcasm then you really need more practice.
Gabriel Virtus hirr	Posted - 2010.09.28 09:59:00 - [21] Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 28/09/2010 10:02:20 Originally by: RAW23 Again, I would suggest you read more carefully. "Don't trade" is in the present tense, "used to" is in the past tense. There is no conflict at all between saying one does not trade and then talking about what one "used to" do when trading. Quote: No way bro! cool story! You should check out "sarcasm" in the dictionary. -GV If that was supposed to be sarcasm then you really need more practice. Or try to target a more intelligent audience. -GV
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.09.28 10:39:00 - [22] Quote: I thought you claimed that you don't trade? Interesting... Nitpicking every post is the other thing that can make you blind. Anyway "used to trade", as easily verified with eve-search (see the recurring pattern?), refers to about May-Jun 2009 when I made about > 1B with trading, then got bored and stopped. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Dreeepa Amarr German Space Factory	Posted - 2010.09.28 13:18:00 - [23] yawn Can you 2 please get a chatroom instead of spamming your v***** stuff in here. There are some people interested on the actual question, you know? ____________________________________ touch the legacy code, touch the legacy code!!!
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.09.28 13:49:00 - [24] Is is useful to know who your competitors/customers/suppliers are? Competitors - Not really, it doesn't change the fact they will compete with you no matter what, and they come and go so the list is volatile at best. Customers - Oh yeah, if you notice a particular customer always buying a set amount of stuff from you, it is sometimes a good idea to reach out, offer then a small discount and a constant supply. The removal of Sales Tax and Broker fees for that particular quantity of goods, combined with the fact you KNOW you have a sale, not to mention removing possible sales to your competition is worth it's weight in ISK.. Suppliers - Yes, if you always consume a set amount from find a supplier, for the same reasons as above you're their customer so they reap the benefits of you selling direct as well. You can often get materials cheaper simply because they are don't pay sales tax or broker fees. For "budgeting" reasons, knowing your suppliers and customers allows you to know just how much ISK you need and how much you'll make. This is vital for if you find something better, it's easy to judge which one channel you can drop in order to participate in the better income stream. Amarr for Life
Sum Nocte	Posted - 2010.09.28 22:07:00 - [25] Everyone is a potential customer, potential buyer and many are hostile.
Slade Trillgon Endless Possibilities Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.28 22:37:00 - [26] Originally by: SencneS Is is useful to know who your competitors/customers/suppliers are? Competitors - Not really, it doesn't change the fact they will compete with you no matter what, and they come and go so the list is volatile at best. Customers - Oh yeah, if you notice a particular customer always buying a set amount of stuff from you, it is sometimes a good idea to reach out, offer then a small discount and a constant supply. The removal of Sales Tax and Broker fees for that particular quantity of goods, combined with the fact you KNOW you have a sale, not to mention removing possible sales to your competition is worth it's weight in ISK.. Suppliers - Yes, if you always consume a set amount from find a supplier, for the same reasons as above you're their customer so they reap the benefits of you selling direct as well. You can often get materials cheaper simply because they are don't pay sales tax or broker fees. For "budgeting" reasons, knowing your suppliers and customers allows you to know just how much ISK you need and how much you'll make. This is vital for if you find something better, it's easy to judge which one channel you can drop in order to participate in the better income stream. Finding out who your main competitor is can be usefull, in nonregional trade hubs, if the corp/alliance can be pushed out of the area for less isk then you are losing by them being competition. Otherwise, I agree with everything even most of your sentiment about competition. Originally by: Gabriel Virtus Or try to target a more intelligent audience. -GV /facepalm Slade :Signature Temporarily Disabled:

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