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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Veronica HawtDeals
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Posted - 2010.10.07 17:01:00 -
[31]
+1 Support |
Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.10.07 17:33:00 -
[32]
Wow, I like how you got nearly all your pro and con points wrong or simply fail to understand how the things you are writing about actually work.
--Submit your bug reports via mental telepathy this will streamline CCP ignoring them.-- |
Xi Dra'Gaan
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Posted - 2010.10.07 21:43:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Bhattran Wow, I like how you got nearly all your pro and con points wrong or simply fail to understand how the things you are writing about actually work.
Wow! I'm amazed at your superior reading comprehension and complete understanding of how things actually work.
+1 - Supported
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Spyke BlackIce
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Posted - 2010.10.07 22:36:00 -
[34]
This whole matter is insane.
Got my support though.
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2010.10.07 23:57:00 -
[35]
There should be some ways to enhance your players skills somewhat faster by work in the game. Using months subscribed as the primary metric of how many sps characters have in the account is ok, but hardly any lofty ideal. Its more a lesser evil choice. Going to a 100% advancement by pve achievement (grind) wouldn't be something I suggest, but allowing those who so choose to leap forward a few months a year (20 to 30%) hardly would throw out the primary time metric.
Wisdom and skills are developed by time and effort...seems to be a good role play and competitive mix to me...(and the game is nicely competitive between people with vastly disparate skills already...some vitaly important roles can be played by very low sp characters .
As I buy plex for 4 accounts each month with isk I've earned in game, the plexes are phychologically no different to me. On a logical basis, other people should be able to over come their opposite phychological bias and realize that each and every item that can be aquired with isk in the game is essetially a micro transaction already.
$ already translates directly to any item or privalege that can be bought with isk...that should be pretty clear to anyone thiking about it. It matters not if its a plex or 350 million isk that need to be transferred to a NPC or another player to get something.
So.. to me it boils down to
Is it a good idea for players to be able to earn a re-map ?
and
Should we keep the game with its economy at the center of allowing a sandbox of many different ways to earn isk according to play prefference...or should all new things of value force characters to perform specific PVE "missions" with un-trnaferable rights to the price ?
I think its a good idea to have a way to earn extra re-maps and I really like the idea that the game doesn't force us into specific channels and "bind on contact" dynamics.
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So'Lar Wynde
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Posted - 2010.10.08 05:36:00 -
[36]
After reading everything that I could find about this I've come to the conclusion that the majority of the protest is either based on fear of change, fear that someone out there may gain a slight advantage on them and therefore they are being treated unfairly, or it is simply the OMG! Stampede! factor where everyone gets caught up in the push.
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ifollowed through
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Posted - 2010.10.08 06:07:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
As I buy plex for 4 accounts each month with isk I've earned in game,
you'll not be able to afford when this comes in, GTC / plex prices are already rising, folk aren't taking less than 700 mil for a GTC right now and that's only going to a lot worse
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Jon'Do Smith
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Posted - 2010.10.08 06:11:00 -
[38]
+1 support
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F'elch
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Posted - 2010.10.08 09:37:00 -
[39]
Supported.
Bring it on. Let people throw their money away.
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ifollowed through
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Posted - 2010.10.08 12:38:00 -
[40]
huh, So'Lar Wynde, Jon'Do Smith, F'elch aren't a'lts o'f e'ach o'ther at'all eh ?
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Bluefix
Gnu Terror Corps
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Posted - 2010.10.08 12:58:00 -
[41]
not supported
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So'Lar Wynde
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.08 13:19:00 -
[42]
Originally by: ifollowed through huh, So'Lar Wynde, Jon'Do Smith, F'elch aren't a'lts o'f e'ach o'ther at'all eh ?
Jon'Do is a member of my alliance, the other, F'elch, I've never met. Just because the names have an apostrophe in them doesn't automatically make them alts. I've seen hundreds of such names so by your reasoning, they must belong to someone with a huge bank account and a computer complex to multibox them all.
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Shaddak Da'Khan
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Posted - 2010.10.08 13:46:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Shaddak Da''Khan on 08/10/2010 13:48:24 LMFAO Can I join the alt mega guy?!
edit - forgot the support
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Onyth
Had Holdings
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Posted - 2010.10.08 16:09:00 -
[44]
NO, thums down, .... Just no. Plenty of reasons have been given by plenty of players.
This looks to much like a stepping stone to more plex transactions we do not want. CCP should spend their time fixing problems rather than making more! I would make a proposal for someone in the CSM to slap the one at CCP who came up with this crappy idea though.
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.10.08 17:20:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Xi Dra'Gaan
Originally by: Bhattran Wow, I like how you got nearly all your pro and con points wrong or simply fail to understand how the things you are writing about actually work.
Wow! I'm amazed at your superior reading comprehension and complete understanding of how things actually work.
+1 - Supported
It is such a burden being surrounded by people who don't understand that, thank you for your compassion, if only more people could recognize how difficult their ignorance makes the world.
--Submit your bug reports via mental telepathy this will streamline CCP ignoring them.-- |
Kinta Huron
ANZAC ALLIANCE IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.08 20:49:00 -
[46]
Supported.
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Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2010.10.09 00:16:00 -
[47]
NOT supported
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Rhok Relztem
Caldari CGMA Synergist Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.09 00:19:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kinta Huron Supported.
Thanks for the support Kinta. Would you do me a favor though... edit your post and tick the support checkbox.
If any of you others who have supported this come back to read the comments, pleae do likewise...
- Greken?
- Crazy Katie
- Nicien
- Duke Hamilton1
- Apollo Gabriel
Thanks
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Jumpgate Slate
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Posted - 2010.10.09 06:37:00 -
[49]
+1
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Te'Cumseh Nadowa
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Posted - 2010.10.09 21:01:00 -
[50]
Hell yes!
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Cupio Mortem
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Posted - 2010.10.10 08:26:00 -
[51]
People get famous by making a ****-ton of isk, then worry people might catch up, so spew BS arguments in hopes they get their way. Luckily CCP is smart enough to ignore things like this. Plus I always cheer for the underdog. This won't help any underdog catch up nearly as much as the people "on top" fear it will (even full on implementation of microtransactions wouldn't, seeing as the PLEX market pretty much allows me to do whatever I want right away anyway), but I'm all for making them shift uncomfortably in their seats watching it be implemented, wishing they had shut their mouths in the first place when the world doesn't collapse.
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0oO0oOoOo0o
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Posted - 2010.10.11 00:18:00 -
[52]
I support this adea. Also I don't get your arguement, that this will be an advantage for some. If someone didn't start 2003, he already has a big disadvantage, that can't be countered with this plex feature.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2010.10.11 01:11:00 -
[53]
Support, it's a means whereby a new player can try catch up. $35 for a couple extra remaps (on top of the bonus newbie remap) should be enough to get someone competitive in a year in small ships, which is still too long in my opinion, and $35 ain't much.
Now if only we can get rid of learning skills too.
Plex for remap is possibly the only microtransaction possible that 1) will be of greater advantage to newer players than older and 2) won't radically change game mechanics or structure.
Waiting a year and a half to be competitive in a battleship or HAC is not fun. Ideally, CCP would change the game structure to be more newbie friendly, but that would lead to ragequits above and beyond this, so this is probably the best possible option.
Still against shiny ship microtransactions or direct SP microtransactions.
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Mike deVoid
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2010.10.11 22:41:00 -
[54]
-------- Is this a rhetorical question? |
helmut cheddar
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Posted - 2010.10.12 00:47:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney Support, it's a means whereby a new player can try catch up. $35 for a couple extra remaps (on top of the bonus newbie remap) should be enough to get someone competitive in a year in small ships, which is still too long in my opinion, and $35 ain't much.
Now if only we can get rid of learning skills too.
Plex for remap is possibly the only microtransaction possible that 1) will be of greater advantage to newer players than older and 2) won't radically change game mechanics or structure.
Waiting a year and a half to be competitive in a battleship or HAC is not fun. Ideally, CCP would change the game structure to be more newbie friendly, but that would lead to ragequits above and beyond this, so this is probably the best possible option.
Still against shiny ship microtransactions or direct SP microtransactions.
you make it sound like this covers every noob, it only covers noobs with spare cash or spare time, those without either are just **** out of luck i guess.
not supported
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Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.10.12 07:39:00 -
[56]
PLEX for remap is just trading an in-game item for in-game benefits. Would you be mad if it was CNR for remap? Or 350M ISK fee for remap? If you want to whine about microwhatever, whine about PLEX for $15.
One more available remap would solve my big skill dilema, and being able to remap for PLEX would at least give me some incentive to make ISK (no wars lately = boring). Players who have the skills (no, not the ones you buy with SP) to make ISK wouldn't have to wait three months to be able to fly a ship they could buy a dozen of right now. ___________ EVE is dying! Now for real! |
SleeperAcolyte
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Posted - 2010.10.12 09:24:00 -
[57]
Quote: PLEX for remap is just trading an in-game item for in-game benefits.
NO, plex is not a normal ingame item, it can be bought with real world currency. THAT, is the difference. If it was a mission reward or some type of ingame event, I wouldn't mind.
People are confusing 2 different problems, the NEED for more remaps to make up for newbie mistakes and such and microtransactions in general. Making remaps a microtransaction item is a BAD solution to a legitimate problem. Like many said, it fixes an ingame mechanic by assigning a dollar amount to the solution. There are plenty of ways to address the problem with fixes to ingame mechanics or really any variety of events.
I took the time to plan & carefully do my remaps, others didn't and are now at a distadvantage, but thats what eve is about, to plan ahead or suffer the consequences. To simply pay 15$ to catch up is just lame. I understand alot of people that wasted their remaps would look at this as a chance to finally fix their newbie mistakes. But it also allows people to plex their way through repeated unlimited remaps to retain the maximum SP/Hour, circumventing a game mechanic that has made everyone equal, that is that SP cannot be bought with isk/real cash. After this, those that have the pockets will be able to do so.
Remaps are limited, plexing for them will be unlimited (or at least they don't seem to have announced an assigned limit to it). Better solutions perhaps reducing the interval for remaps ? adding a 3rd one ? Allowing a 1-time ingame event for it ? Hell I would be ok with this if they actually limit how many times you cap pay for it with a plex, its "somewhat" fair if you can still earn that isk and get the same treatment, but for the average person, he will never be able to compete with someone that WANTS to pay to have an almost perminant ingame advantage in SP/Hr.
Not supported. But I would support a different fix for remaps if you want to create such a proposal.
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JcJet
Caldari Pretenders Inc Tower of Dark Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.12 13:32:00 -
[58]
No. ---
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Rhok Relztem
Caldari CGMA Synergist Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.13 03:51:00 -
[59]
Originally by: SleeperAcolyte
Quote: PLEX for remap is just trading an in-game item for in-game benefits.
NO, plex is not a normal ingame item, it can be bought with real world currency. THAT, is the difference. If it was a mission reward or some type of ingame event, I wouldn't mind.
People are confusing 2 different problems, the NEED for more remaps to make up for newbie mistakes and such and microtransactions in general. Making remaps a microtransaction item is a BAD solution to a legitimate problem. Like many said, it fixes an ingame mechanic by assigning a dollar amount to the solution. There are plenty of ways to address the problem with fixes to ingame mechanics or really any variety of events.
I took the time to plan & carefully do my remaps, others didn't and are now at a distadvantage, but thats what eve is about, to plan ahead or suffer the consequences. To simply pay 15$ to catch up is just lame. I understand alot of people that wasted their remaps would look at this as a chance to finally fix their newbie mistakes. But it also allows people to plex their way through repeated unlimited remaps to retain the maximum SP/Hour, circumventing a game mechanic that has made everyone equal, that is that SP cannot be bought with isk/real cash. After this, those that have the pockets will be able to do so.
Remaps are limited, plexing for them will be unlimited (or at least they don't seem to have announced an assigned limit to it). Better solutions perhaps reducing the interval for remaps ? adding a 3rd one ? Allowing a 1-time ingame event for it ? Hell I would be ok with this if they actually limit how many times you cap pay for it with a plex, its "somewhat" fair if you can still earn that isk and get the same treatment, but for the average person, he will never be able to compete with someone that WANTS to pay to have an almost perminant ingame advantage in SP/Hr.
Not supported. But I would support a different fix for remaps if you want to create such a proposal.
Right there is the problem. Players such as yourself equate PLEX to RL money. Nothing could be further than the truth. GTCs are bought with money, NOT PLEX (NOTE that when you 'purchase PLEX' from the EVE website, you are actually only purchasing multiples of a GTC). Those GTCs can be used in one of three ways...
- It is used from the player's account management area to add time to his/her subscription OUTSIDE of the game.
- It is sold OUTSIDE of the game in the Official Forum - Timecode Bazaar - for ISK (the ISK is of course then used INGAME).
- It is converted to PLEX from INSIDE of the game which is then used or sold INSIDE the game (but the GTC is purchased OUTSIDE of the game).
You cannot buy a GTC ingame nor can you buy PLEX directly with money ingame. You buy PLEX with ISK. PLEX properties include:
- Sell and buy it on the market FOR ISK and haggle over the price.
- Anyone, even the poorest EVE player in RL, can buy a PLEX.
- Store it in a hangar, container, or cargo hold.
- Transport it within a ship.
- Trade it for another ingame item.
- Put it into a contract or use it as payment for a contract.
- Give it to another player, to a corporation, or to an alliance.
- Transfer it to an alt.
- Lose it if your ship is destroyed while it is in the cargo hold.
- Salvage it.
- Use it to pay a ransom
If you will notice from that list, a PLEX is JUST LIKE ANY OTHER GAME ITEM, and just like any and all other game items, you cannot buy it with real money INGAME. You CAN however, just like the GTCs, buy a ready-made character with skill training in various amounts and with that character, you may also get any game item in that character's hangar if so agreed. Also notice that selling GTCs in the forums is the same as buying ISK WITH RL MONEY. That is a lot closer to buying an advantage than is using PLEX for a Neural Remap.
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SleeperAcolyte
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Posted - 2010.10.13 06:40:00 -
[60]
Quote: Right there is the problem. Players such as yourself equate PLEX to RL money. Nothing could be further than the truth. ....
We equate plex to RL money because THAT is the only source of creating more plexes. I don't know of any other ingame mechanic that allows you to create a plex without having spent cash to obtain GTC's. Your list covered alot of the plex's properties but as you've pointed out the only way to add to that supply is by spending cash, obtaining GTC's and going through the process to turn them into ingame plexes. I cannot mission and buy a plex with LP, I can't mine/harvest one, I can't run sites and have a plex drop. All other ingame items have a way of creating them within the game itself, therefore PLEX is not a regular ingame item, even if it recieves almost the same treatment.
Even the news articles use plex prices to backtrack real world cost in evaluating heists or other ingame events involving the destruction/theft of lots of isk, even though RMT is technically forbidden and such numbers would be invalid to begin with. Another example is CCP's PLEX for Good campaigns, with ccp promising to provide the equivalent real world value of plex's that are donated to a ccp char (and thus removed from ingame market supply) to humanitarian organisations. THAT is the truth, the reality is that plexes have a real world value, and as a by product of that so does ISK. If I'm not mistaken, that was one of the original intents of plex's to begin with. To undermine RMT and isk sellers by providing a secure & closed loop system of buying isk.
But you know what, thats an entirely different issue all together and only one of the reasons I don't support it. The biggest reason I don't support this is because it breaks the limit on remaps, it doesn't extend it or change it, it completely breaks it. You can have unlimited remaps for as long as your ingame/realworld wallet can allow, THAT is imo the biggest problem. I may agree with you on the value of having a higher amount of remaps to account for newbie mistakes or plan changes or many of the stuff you listed under "pros" in your proposal or by others that supported this. Certainly the need for more remaps is there, I just believe this would be a terrible solution to it, hell its not even a solution its a work around that has a real world value assigned to it.
However should a limit be implemented, I may change my position on this, but until then I cannot support it. In addition, if CCP is using this as the first of possibly more "cosmetic" microtransactions, it does not bode well for the rest of their microtransaction lineup. Because neural remaps are certainly not cosmetic at all, its brain surgery !
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