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Rhok Relztem
Caldari
CGMA Synergist Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.13 07:17:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: SleeperAcolyte
We equate plex to RL money because THAT is the only source of creating more plexes. I don't know of any other ingame mechanic that allows you to create a plex without having spent cash to obtain GTC's. Your list covered alot of the plex's properties but as you've pointed out the only way to add to that supply is by spending cash, obtaining GTC's and going through the process to turn them into ingame plexes. I cannot mission and buy a plex with LP, I can't mine/harvest one, I can't run sites and have a plex drop. All other ingame items have a way of creating them within the game itself, therefore PLEX is not a regular ingame item, even if it recieves almost the same treatment.
Even the news articles use plex prices to backtrack real world cost in evaluating heists or other ingame events involving the destruction/theft of lots of isk, even though RMT is technically forbidden and such numbers would be invalid to begin with. Another example is CCP's PLEX for Good campaigns, with ccp promising to provide the equivalent real world value of plex's that are donated to a ccp char (and thus removed from ingame market supply) to humanitarian organisations. THAT is the truth, the reality is that plexes have a real world value, and as a by product of that so does ISK. If I'm not mistaken, that was one of the original intents of plex's to begin with. To undermine RMT and isk sellers by providing a secure & closed loop system of buying isk.
But you know what, thats an entirely different issue all together and only one of the reasons I don't support it. The biggest reason I don't support this is because it breaks the limit on remaps, it doesn't extend it or change it, it completely breaks it. You can have unlimited remaps for as long as your ingame/realworld wallet can allow, THAT is imo the biggest problem. I may agree with you on the value of having a higher amount of remaps to account for newbie mistakes or plan changes or many of the stuff you listed under "pros" in your proposal or by others that supported this. Certainly the need for more remaps is there, I just believe this would be a terrible solution to it, hell its not even a solution its a work around that has a real world value assigned to it.
However should a limit be implemented, I may change my position on this, but until then I cannot support it. In addition, if CCP is using this as the first of possibly more "cosmetic" microtransactions, it does not bode well for the rest of their microtransaction lineup. Because neural remaps are certainly not cosmetic at all, its brain surgery !
The point though, SleeperAcolyte, is that once that PLEX is ingame anyone can use it, not just the person who had the extra cash to buy the GTCs in the first place. Most players who buy GTCs either apply them directly to their account or sell them in the forums or through the conversion feature. Those who sell them rarely use them for their own account. I know. Over a 6 month period this past year, I sold a LOT of GTCs in the Bazaar. I always had a few billion to share among my accounts for implants, highend skillbooks, and expensive ships and mods, and that gave me a HUGE advantage over other players. When this PLEX for Neural Remaps goes live though, I will go to buying PLEX with ISK because $17.50 a pop for a remap to save a few weeks a year in training is not cost effective in my book. I would wager that most sellers of GTCs/PLEX feel the same way.
Along that same vein, how would this break the remap feature? No one in his/her right mind would spend a PLEX for a remap frequently unless 1)you are rolling in cash, or 2)you have been playing & hoarding your ISK for years and are one of the few elite EVE rich. The common player is only going to be able to use maybe a few a year at most.
As for a limit, I added that to the proposal shortly after I posted it and I'd bet CCP has looked at a limit too, although I honestly don't believe it will be needed.
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BlackIce Adder
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Posted - 2010.10.13 07:25:00 -
[62]
Been teetering on the fence on this issue but I like your perspective on it even though I loathe microtransactions.
Supported
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SleeperAcolyte
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Posted - 2010.10.13 08:46:00 -
[63]
Quote:
Along that same vein, how would this break the remap feature? No one in his/her right mind would spend a PLEX for a remap frequently unless 1)you are rolling in cash, or 2)you have been playing & hoarding your ISK for years and are one of the few elite EVE rich. The common player is only going to be able to use maybe a few a year at most.
1) It may certainly seem reasonable to expect people wouldn't spend tons of cash to gain an advantage, but that is not always the case. There are many examples where people have funded capitals, towers, ships and character purchases through real cash and didn't think twice about it. I know a few and I bet you do to, its not that rare a phenomena. Plus you get 2 Plexes for the GTC if I'm not mistaken, so thats already 2 more possible remaps for a single purchase.
2) A plex may be an expensive item, but I'm sure many people have alts that are completely subscribed through plexes including me, so spending them on a semi-regular base does not require you to be filthy rich. Certainly remaps won't be used every other day, but if some eve players can manage to get a plex per month, I would expect them to be able to afford a remap per month, rendering the entire remap system pointless. Certainly you can seperate your plan into month-long remaps, or maybe 2-month long to save isk and you'd still maintain an almost perfect SP/H ratio. That is how the lack of a limit would break this mechanic. It effectively introduces "Power leveling" into eve.
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Manipulator General
o.0
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Posted - 2010.10.13 11:13:00 -
[64]
meh, why not.
Besides, it's not like these proposals every amount to anything. Ever. They're about like entries in the Features & Ideas Recycle Bin subforum.
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Rhok Relztem
Caldari
CGMA Synergist Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.13 12:07:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Manipulator General
meh, why not.
Besides, it's not like these proposals every amount to anything. Ever. They're about like entries in the Features & Ideas Recycle Bin subforum.
LOL True. Actually, since CCP has already stated that PLEX for Neural Remaps WILL be in the winter expansion, this is nothing more than a discussion on the issue as is the 'No...' proposal. Still, it's nice to get a few more supporting it even though the Nays are waaaaay out in front due to fears of an unfair advantage and gaming-breaking MTs to follow. I just don't see either one happening personally.
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SleeperAcolyte
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Posted - 2010.10.13 13:27:00 -
[66]
Well there is the vain hope that some CCP developer will read all this and perhaps take it into account as constructive critique. If not, at least the strong backlash against this may influence future offerings of "cosmetic microtransactions" that modify game mechanics.
I would be much more ok with this with a limit in place, but I'm more worried about these types of situations happening again and having to debate other microtransactions that blur the line between vanity item and modifying existing game mechanics. At the end of the day CCP is going to do whatever it wants and whatever makes business sense.
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wakalaka
Information And Entropy
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Posted - 2010.10.13 13:30:00 -
[67]
Very much like +XP scrolls in other games. Not supported. The whole remap thing is screwed in its basis. Why not remaps every 24h cooldown?
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Xi Dra'Gaan
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Posted - 2010.10.16 13:07:00 -
[68]
Back to the top.  
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Vihura
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Posted - 2010.10.26 15:42:00 -
[69]
Suported
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Wu Jiaqiu
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.10.30 14:47:00 -
[70]
Supported. Because why the hell not? Everyone benefits from this.
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RS Murphy
SniggWaffe
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.10.31 00:34:00 -
[71]
supported
-RS Murphy
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Lord Lewtz
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Posted - 2010.11.02 17:12:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Lord Lewtz on 02/11/2010 17:16:04
I support.
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Mocam
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Posted - 2010.11.03 00:36:00 -
[73]
No.
ISK for remaps I can see but PLEX? No. There is a difference between them though you obviously are too blind to see it.
This is flat out buying a way around game mechanics with cash. Your cash or someone else's. With ISK more could be done with respect to how it operates -- rep at stations, etc... could effect the prices but with PLEX... That's cash & carry.
As for the effect of remaps, I sure as hell know more about this than you do. I misunderstood what "2 free remaps" meant at the start so had to remove a remap across my first year of play. I SAW over 2 million SP come out of my first years training plan so this isn't "trivial". This *IS* buying SP with cash just the same as the "logic" of buying ISK with cash via PLEX comes into play.
So ISK for remaps? I'd support that. How someone got the ISK is their business but PLEX? That I don't support. Try INTERACTING in the game vs just tossing $$ at it to advance faster and buying GTC to immediately swap for remaps isn't "interacting" with anyone beyond CCP.
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DURRRHHH
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Posted - 2010.11.03 01:34:00 -
[74]
I support this, as this will bring up plex prices and therefore get me more money when I put real $$$ into a game.
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Pseudo Ucksth
Collegium Mechanicae
Dominus Bellorum
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Posted - 2010.11.07 19:41:00 -
[75]
Supporting with main
I guess this is more of a symbolic gesture than anything else at this point but hey there you go.
______
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Gelanone
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Posted - 2010.11.08 10:38:00 -
[76]
Supported!
Being able to correct mistakes you've done, and to train the skills you want for whatever new path you want to go in the eve universe is good.
The hysteria with ppl thinking CCP is the big great evil that will abuse Plex/MT's is just hilarious.
Get real ppl.... and its only a game. |
Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente
Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.09 10:13:00 -
[77]
TO be honest i don't see a big deal about this. Yes, plexes will become slightly more expencive because people will buy plexes with ISK to get remaps. That's about it. Might not be a good thing, bu does not look like a disaster to me.
THat being said, i remain neutral, and will not show my support to either proposal or counterproposal.
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.11.11 15:52:00 -
[78]
Ill admit I'm not thrilled with the idea myself. But I do see how this is an obvious business decision that doesn't ruin the game.
I'm supporting because they are allowing people to do this with plex and not just a direct money payment to ccp. I find it unlikely that I will use this feature myself but I probably would have when I first started.
I hope ccp continues to make any microtransactions available through plex as opposed to direct "cash only."
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
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