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Gibbeous Moon
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Posted - 2010.10.06 18:32:00 -
[1]
I always thought that if a missle could reach something then it would always hit.
Now, I if I am firing at a large (and I mean LARGE) stationary object at about 45 kms then the amount of damage I am doing is about 420 per volley. But if I get closer then I find that the damage is over 600.
Now, the 45km is well within my range and the target doesn't move so I can't understand why I am losing about 30% of my damage just because of the range.
Could someone cast any light onto this for me, please?
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Matalino
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Posted - 2010.10.06 19:27:00 -
[2]
Any chance that when you are closer you are also dealing damage to the object's structure instead to the objects armour. A change in resistances can certainly make the 30% difference in damage.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.10.06 21:56:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Akita T on 06/10/2010 22:00:31
The only possible explanation that comes to mind assuming you did/understood nothing wrong would be NPC defenders... shooting down some missiles at medium ranges but twice as many at ranges above 45km (since they get to shoot twice per volley as opposed to only once), and going to point-blank range should result in all missiles hitting since no NPC defenders get to fire at all. But I am sort of scratching my head about "large stationary objects" (meaning, NPC structures, because all other NPCs are moving) being equipped with NPC defenders.
Care to offer a bit more details about your "problem" ? As in, what are you shooting at (NPC entity name + what mission or where else you found it), what ship are you flying, EXACT amounts of damage dealt (not approximate ones), also if possible individual per-missile damage (ungroup launchers for test purposes, regroup later if you want), are you SURE you're hitting the exact same defensive "layer" (as in, are you dealing with the same resists) or not, and so on and so forth.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Culmen
Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.10.07 02:58:00 -
[4]
There's another simple explination.
Was the entity in structure by the time you got in range?
Some NPC entities have some resists for their shields and armor, which you would have destroyed as you got close.
So by the time you got close, you were shooting it's structure, which has no resists. and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Gibbeous Moon
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Posted - 2010.10.07 05:16:00 -
[5]
Right, thanks.
I am going to have to do some proper logging on this. One volley at short range, one at medium and one at distance.
Don't ask me the name of the mission as I can't even remember my own name at the best of times. But the two things which I was firing at, on different missings, were an Industrial Ship and also one large gas tank thing (in the vain hope that the explosion would damage my real target next to it).
I will give my chap an early morning alarm call, eggs for breakfast and then see what facts and figures I can come up with.
Cheers Gibbeous Moon
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Milan Nantucket
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Posted - 2010.10.08 21:10:00 -
[6]
It's the fuel. See Rocket fuel is explosive and very combustible. It is also a limited resource... so it exploded when the missile explodes... the less fuel there is in the missiles the less damage the fuel does.
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente Amicus Morte Shock an Awe
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Posted - 2010.10.08 23:54:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Milan Nantucket It's the fuel. See Rocket fuel is explosive and very combustible. It is also a limited resource... so it exploded when the missile explodes... the less fuel there is in the missiles the less damage the fuel does.
Just in case a new player reads this : This is baloney, funny and clever baloney but baloney nonetheless Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenĘt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
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Culmen
Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.10.09 02:56:00 -
[8]
Heres one thing that took me by surprise.
Max missile range is not velocity x flight time.
Its actually shorter then that, because the missiles actually have to accelerate.
I don't have the formula handy though.
and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Lost Greybeard
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Posted - 2010.10.09 03:38:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Culmen Heres one thing that took me by surprise.
Max missile range is not velocity x flight time.
Its actually shorter then that, because the missiles actually have to accelerate.
I don't have the formula handy though.
The usual calculation is to subtract 5% from your final range to account for acceleration. I have not seen a really precise evaluation of the velocity profiles, probably because that would be an enormous waste of time. ---
If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous |
Culmen
Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.10.09 03:59:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Lost Greybeard probably because that would be an enormous waste of time.
That differs from EVE as a whole in what way?
Seriously, look up the math behind ship acceleration, integrate it over the time variable and thus calculate time to reapproach a gate, then we can talk about wasting time. and further more why do i even need a sig? |
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.10.09 10:47:00 -
[11]
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1307419&page=1
a more detailed discussion
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Milan Nantucket
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Posted - 2010.10.10 23:06:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Louis deGuerre
Originally by: Milan Nantucket It's the fuel. See Rocket fuel is explosive and very combustible. It is also a limited resource... so it exploded when the missile explodes... the less fuel there is in the missiles the less damage the fuel does.
Just in case a new player reads this : This is baloney, funny and clever baloney but baloney nonetheless
Yes what I said is total baloney and I hope it was funny as that was the intent. The link above explains it.
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Kesshisan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.11 02:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lost Greybeard The usual calculation is to subtract 5% from your final range to account for acceleration. I have not seen a really precise evaluation of the velocity profiles, probably because that would be an enormous waste of time.
If you gave me the acceleration of missiles, I could figure a very close one out for you using simple 1-d kinematics.
For the duration while the missile is accelerating:
Vmax = Vi + a*t1 S1 = Vi*t1 + (a*(t1)^2)/2
For the duration while the missile is at max velocity:
Smax = S1 + Vmax*(t2)
Vi = your ship's velocity while firing the missiles in as (positive if moving towards the enemy, negative if moving away from the enemy.)
To get the actual value you solve for t1 using the first formula and plug the value of t1 for the 2nd formula. After you have S1, you solve for t2 using t1 + t2 = total flight time. Then plug S1 and t2 into the 3rd formula, and you're done.
If you really wanted to, you could do a bit of substitution and end up with a single formula for every missile.
*note* I'm using a formula assuming your target is sitting still, and your missiles are being fired directly at the enemy (ignoring the 2nd and 3rd dimensions.) A 100% accurate way of doing this would need to know if missiles were affected by momentum, along with that information regarding that momentum. Additionally we would need to figure out the path the missile would travel to a moving ship. Because missiles don't predict paths, instead they travel straight to their target at the given moment, you would need some sort of an integral to figure out the distance taken to reach the target. I'm not interested in figuring that out at the moment, so I'll just leave it at simple 1-dimensional kinematics and say "close enough."
Personally, I like the "subtract 5%" way better, even if it is less accurate. :P
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