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CCP Tanis	Posted - 2010.10.07 15:54:00 - [1] Howdy folks, When you complete a dungeon, send an EVE-MAIL to the character with the system name that coordinates with it: CharacterName: Watcher(Poitot) CharacterName: Watcher(F67E-Q) CharacterName: Watcher(MHC-R3) In order for your information to be valid and for us to actually read the feedback you give, please follow the below format. Failure to do so will mean there is a good chance we will not read what you give us. Subject: ("Dungeon Name") ("Number of People to complete") ("Hard/Moderate/Easy") Example: (Age of Doom) (7) (Moderate) Your overall rating for this site ( 1 - crap, 10 - totally awesome)?: How long did it take?: What reward do you think would be fair for this level of difficulty?: What did you find good about this dungeon?: What did you find bad about this dungeon?: Do you feel your group was coordinated?: How do you feel about the NPC behavior?: What ships did you have in your fleet?: Were you using PvE or PvP fit ships to attempt/complete this dungeon?: General Feedback (keep it short and sweet): Information on how to log into Singularity can be found on this EVElopedia page. Thank you for helping us test Incursion. We look forward to reading your feedback! ____________________________ I break thingsÖ CCP Tanis - EVE Quality Assurance\|EVE Live Team CCP Games

Reptzo Channel 4 News Team	Posted - 2010.10.07 22:43:00 - [2] Out of curiosity, why no cap ships? Yah they will make some of it easier, but at the same time, it makes the group a huge target for pvp. Its a good double edged sword.
Dinkelsen Onyx Commando	Posted - 2010.10.08 06:53:00 - [3] Something came to my mind after sending the feedback mail: We were doing a Site in F67E-Q and while we were struggling to keep our spider tank operational I didn't have the impression that we were doing that much damage. Still, in time we finished the first wave (after which I had to leave but I heard that they quit that site) It seemed to me that the Sanshas, despite having titanesque hitpoints, didn't do much to repair themselves. Either I didn't notice or the amount of self/remote is more or less insignificant. A battleship I mistakenly hit a few times still had its shield damage when I switched back to it. Strange behavior for a shield tank, or maybe they are passively tanked? Regards, Dinkelsen
Tas Caern	Posted - 2010.10.08 07:26:00 - [4] I was involved in the testing early on the 7th in Poitot(afraid I didn't catch any site names but did want to leave my general impression as I was running in a guardian and was quite hectic. ran 2 separate sites, 1st was quite light (frigs only) they still took some time to die but fleet was 6 combats and 2 logi's so it wasn't a big deal, but they still managed to take out some chunks of armor so these are not your papa's sansha. (all of the ships seem to be listed as prototypes and do mad damage) So we flew into a larger site and promptly the 1st ships in the site were primary and died (the logistics) we tried again with 10 (7 combats 3 logi's) same result, finally got upto 15 (4 logi's and 11 combats) and aligned to the gate before all going in... we were stable most of the fight... close in NPC group liked to neut, two further groups are set up to snipe. AI seems a modified Sleeper AI, they don't just give aggro to 1 ship they seem more random, they will focus on 1 ship for 10-20 seconds then randomly spray damage across half the fleet then focus fire on a different ship (driving your logi pilots mad) getting in range of 1 sniper group will pull you quite far from the other group which will continue to hang around 130+ away from your warp in. Site finally seemed over when CCP Soundwave finally magically popped all but 1 of them and soon with him dead we thought we were done... (had been in the site for more than 40 minutes) Noooo.. a new wave popped up and we made a valiant effort to keep up but most of us warped out. Site was excellent, AI was Excellent, music was Excellent I give it a 5 for the one reason below... Takes way too long.. 2 paladins and several Abbas, Megas, domi's and legions (and 3 guardians) all had to focus fire on 1 NPC to make it drop which still took almost a minute apiece, these things are tanked like crazy, and they do damage on par with capsuleers <--ok but scary. It seems unfair to let them intsa-target, pour out 1000+ dps per ship and tank nearly 2000+ dps. (did a similar site later in the day with 50+ during the lag test and they dropped like flies, but how many 50 man fleets are gonna do this in HS?) Reward was given for completion of the objective.. no bounties, nice system actually and makes sure everyone in fleet gets a payout, but 15mil for almost 2 hours of shooting was poor Sansha are still doing EM/Therm damage so a heavy PVE tank will likely work best, just bring a good RR-Gang and stay on the ball and everyone should live, all in all with a bit of tweaking this should turn out quite well. Nice job... can't wait to see the mothership ;p
DarkKnight jr Minmatar CompleXion Industries CompleXion Alliance	Posted - 2010.10.08 11:05:00 - [5] Hope to have the test server working for me soon. Is there any way that there is going to be another test day or 2 coming up?
gfldex	Posted - 2010.10.09 12:05:00 - [6] I did a couple of sites in the last few days. Pilots where random and some had to be told what focus fire means. So I can't possibly tell you if the reward in reasonable by any means. What I can see are a few problems. If the guy that is dual boxing logistics crashes you will have 5 petitions in your queue. Is that intentinal? A related problem is the guy who has to leave early. If that happens you have to go 100% corp tax and then distrubute the money by hand. Possible but ugly. On top of that, if the right pilot has to go AFK (logistic/rapier) you can't just all align and warp out. Are you supposed to lose ships in that situation? And yes that's a big problem. I know that you Icelanders are just ignore death and live on. Anybody else on the planet is reproducing with the help of small children, the most destructive force on the planet. The other major issue is that you wont be able to get it ballanced. If a corp/alliance is able to do the domi+rapier thing they will go through those sites hot knife style. So it's either ridiculous ISK for your trusty vets or it's not beeping worth it for your small corp of friends. Big pirate corps are gonna like it because they can make very nice ISK without borking their standings. It's going to be a big boost to lowsec and Jita for sure.
iudex	Posted - 2010.10.09 13:13:00 - [7] General feedback: it looks nice so far, but nothing for the casual player. I tried almost all sites (scanned ~10 systems in Amarr space) and it seems none of them is solo-able. Some can be tanked with a cheating Tengu (faction stuff + crystal set + blue pill) but the Tengu doesn't have enough firepower to take down a Sansha all alone, so I gave up trying this. For group play the Widow is my favourite ship, as jamming seems to be quite useful and the Widow does nice damage as well. It seems that the reward allocation works like in Faction Warfare plexes, everyone on the grid gets a payment, not sure though, if the payment decreases with the number of people on the grid. If not, there will be huge blobs, if yes there might be a new profession: The reward thief What does a reward thief do ? He gets a reward without having contributed anything to the fight. He will usually use a ship with a cloaking device, preferably a covops, so that you don't even see him warping in. He will sit cloaked on the grid and wait till a team cleans a site and completes it's task there. When the last ship is about to die, the reward thief will uncloak (in case the reward are not give to cloaked ships) and get a part of the reward, just for being there. What are you going to do against reward thieves CCP ? __________________________ http://eveboard.com/pilot/iudex
iudex	Posted - 2010.10.10 01:12:00 - [8] Some additional thoughts: please make the tests under realistic conditions, if you ask for completion times and fair rewards. The real incursion sites have a resistance malus, which makes tanking much harder than in Poitot and the other testing systems, that don't have such a malus. Also please fix the drones finally. I've bug-reported this, it was reproduced by BHs, an issue was created 5 days ago. Yet the drones still seem to do too much damage (not in the designated, unrealistic test-sites but on the real incursion systems as shown on the map). For example you see a wreck of a killed Sansha BS in this SCREENSHOT. The BS was downed very fast by a solo Golem. When 4 of 5 drones died, it took ages to get the shields of another BS to 30%, so it must have been the (still) bugged drones, I don't see another explanation. Which means we have unrealistic conditions here, and the difficulty will be completely different on TQ compared to either the unrealistic testing sites like Poitot or the drone-bugged realistic incursions. __________________________ http://eveboard.com/pilot/iudex
Tamahra Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch	Posted - 2010.10.10 06:26:00 - [9] Originally by: iudex The reward thief What does a reward thief do ? He gets a reward without having contributed anything to the fight. He will usually use a ship with a cloaking device, preferably a covops, so that you don't even see him warping in. He will sit cloaked on the grid and wait till a team cleans a site and completes it's task there. When the last ship is about to die, the reward thief will uncloak (in case the reward are not give to cloaked ships) and get a part of the reward, just for being there. What are you going to do against reward thieves CCP ? This is indeed a serious concern. CCP, do you have plans to counter reward-thieves?
Kanatta Jing	Posted - 2010.10.10 07:16:00 - [10] Wow, It takes less then a minute to loose a battleship. I think my dual armor reps activated maybe twice. Any gang that can tackle an incursion like that can probably rofl stomp your average gate camp.

gfldex	Posted - 2010.10.10 13:37:00 - [11] Originally by: iudex The reward thief The reward thief doesn't matter because the reward is fixed. No matter how many ppl are on grid, you will get 10M for completion per player. What means we will see PvE blobs. o.0
Doctor Ungabungas Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.10.11 06:31:00 - [12] Originally by: iudex Yet the drones still seem to do too much damage (not in the designated, unrealistic test-sites but on the real incursion systems as shown on the map). What makes you think that your 'real incursion systems' are using the same incursion dungeons as the ones we were actually asked to test? The dungeons at the 'real incursion systems' are just placeholders for the actual dungeons we are testing in the 3 designated systems.
Kanatta Jing	Posted - 2010.10.11 11:01:00 - [13] So... The Sansha now use Juggernaut Torpedo's?
iudex	Posted - 2010.10.11 11:47:00 - [14] Edited by: iudex on 11/10/2010 11:49:08 Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas What makes you think that your 'real incursion systems' are using the same incursion dungeons as the ones we were actually asked to test? The dungeons at the 'real incursion systems' are just placeholders for the actual dungeons we are testing in the 3 designated systems. The "real incursion systems" can be found on the map with the incursion tags, it is a cluster of connected systems, with a starting area, different "incursion awareness" states (e.g. "assault" and "vanguard") and a headquarter system with a "True power provisional HQ" plex. They are not just placeholders but a finished system, the dungeons all contain the incursion rats. Once I finished one of the plex sites, the red "system influence" bar (you can see it in this screenshot) moved one tick to the right, so the real incursion system is fully operational, only the rewards seem to be placeholders. What you get in Poitot and the other two masstest-sites are some of the dungeons that can be found in the "real" incursion systems. They have the same names and the same number and type of rats (for example "Nation mining colony" with 5 cruisers and 3 frigs). Only that in the real incursion systems your ship is a bit handicapped (you can see the handicap showing below the red bar) inter alia by reduced shield and armor resistances. That's why the testing conditions are not realistic in Poitot. __________________________ http://eveboard.com/pilot/iudex
Chruker	Posted - 2010.10.11 16:32:00 - [15] I had quite an issue with keeping my spider tank running, since the rats used ECM jamming. Despite raising the basilisks sensor strength from 19 to ~80 a single rat was still able to jam me. So I guess the NPC jamming is still still ignoring the sensorstrength-vs-jam-strength... isnt it about time to that fixed? ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi
Catari Taga Centre Of Attention Middle of Nowhere	Posted - 2010.10.11 16:52:00 - [16] Originally by: Chruker I had quite an issue with keeping my spider tank running, since the rats used ECM jamming. Despite raising the basilisks sensor strength from 19 to ~80 a single rat was still able to jam me. So I guess the NPC jamming is still still ignoring the sensorstrength-vs-jam-strength... isnt it about time to that fixed? Unless you had been perma jammed it's working as intended since jamming is chance based. You can jam 200 sensor strength with one ECM mod on a Rifter if you get lucky. --
Chruker	Posted - 2010.10.11 17:12:00 - [17] Originally by: Catari Taga Originally by: Chruker I had quite an issue with keeping my spider tank running, since the rats used ECM jamming. Despite raising the basilisks sensor strength from 19 to ~80 a single rat was still able to jam me. So I guess the NPC jamming is still still ignoring the sensorstrength-vs-jam-strength... isnt it about time to that fixed? Unless you had been perma jammed it's working as intended since jamming is chance based. You can jam 200 sensor strength with one ECM mod on a Rifter if you get lucky. The part that is wrong is that modules that are suppose to reduce the chance of being jammed, have zero effect in this when its an NPC that does the jamming. That just seems wrong. A battlecruiser was jammed the same amount as the basilisk. ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2010.10.11 18:19:00 - [18] NPC jammers are not using your sensor strength at all when rolling for success/failure. It's not right or wrong, it's just different. -- Thanks CCP for cu
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2010.10.12 07:25:00 - [19] yes its lazy ccp programming id like to see the jam chance the same as the player on player experience
Kanatta Jing	Posted - 2010.10.12 11:05:00 - [20] I don't think your supposed to be able to do the incursions without ship loss.

Imagonem Black Bag Ops	Posted - 2010.10.12 11:39:00 - [21] Incursions sounds rather deadly, I've been meaning to fiddle with it but havent gotten the time. tbh sofar the reports on npcs indicate they need to get even smarter. Breaking a spiderchain behaviour needs to up even more, I think it'll be awesome when people run into 5 incursion bs +2 falcons and they hurt and tank/rr like capsuleer faction fit nightmares. It shouldnt be a safe PvE endevour, it should require you to be on the ball or find yourself having dropped the soap in a sansha prision facility
Arkady Sadik Minmatar Electus Matari	Posted - 2010.10.13 07:12:00 - [22] As far as deadly goes: 3 BS + 2 logi had no problem at all (no one went below 80% armor) with the 5-10 ship sites we tried. Went for a 10-20 site. First tried to split us, which wasn't possible with that setup. The second had our two logis jammed most of the time, so we died in a glorious fire. These sites require a lot more thinking to get "right" than normal missions, but they still only require thinking in fits (e.g. you need something tacklerish for the fast Sansha ships). But once you have good fits, it seems these sites are not that difficult to do. Nice to have them, though.
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2010.10.13 23:33:00 - [23] Originally by: Arkady Sadik As far as deadly goes: 3 BS + 2 logi had no problem at all (no one went below 80% armor) with the 5-10 ship sites we tried. Went for a 10-20 site. First tried to split us, which wasn't possible with that setup. The second had our two logis jammed most of the time, so we died in a glorious fire. These sites require a lot more thinking to get "right" than normal missions, but they still only require thinking in fits (e.g. you need something tacklerish for the fast Sansha ships). But once you have good fits, it seems these sites are not that difficult to do. Nice to have them, though. there needs to be 1-3 man accessible ones even in low sec and 00 And there needs to be more randomness to them
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.15 16:29:00 - [24] Originally by: Chruker I had quite an issue with keeping my spider tank running, since the rats used ECM jamming. Despite raising the basilisks sensor strength from 19 to ~80 a single rat was still able to jam me. So I guess the NPC jamming is still still ignoring the sensorstrength-vs-jam-strength... isnt it about time to that fixed? Tests have shown that they actually have fixed thatà or, indeed, that it never really was the case. Whether they've "fixed" what those tests show and returned NPCs to a state where sensor strength no longer is a factor is a matter of future tests. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Hasnpbeard	Posted - 2010.10.15 17:13:00 - [25] For Incursion, the missing ewar icons for "NOS/NEUT" on the overview turn out to be a real inconvenience if things stay as they are on Sisi, with a cloud of rats that potentially nos you, it is really a pain to look around which of them might are actually doing it. Of course the reason this becomes important in the first place, is that the NOS amount seems laughably out of balance. I would suggest either of both gets fixed.
Freyya Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2010.10.15 22:09:00 - [26] Edited by: Freyya on 15/10/2010 22:13:19 Edited by: Freyya on 15/10/2010 22:10:52 I can confirm that, after testing a 0,5 system incursion, the rats are insanely overpowered. 10 Frigs took down my navy domi in ohhh...less than 2 minutes? FRIGS CCP..FRIGS? 2010.10.15 21:58:00 Victim: Freyya Corp: Advanced Planetary Exports Alliance: Intergalactic Exports Group Faction: Unknown Destroyed: Dominix Navy Issue System: Ihal Security: 0.5 Damage Taken: 84092 Involved parties: Name: Sansha Juggernaut Torpedo / Sansha's Nation (laid the final blow) Damage Done: 84092 Destroyed items: Khanid Navy Cap Recharger, Qty: 2 Large Trimark Armor Pump II, Qty: 2 Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I Hobgoblin II, Qty: 5 (Drone Bay) Valkyrie II (Drone Bay) Bouncer II, Qty: 5 (Drone Bay) Corpum A-Type Energized Reactive Membrane Sensor Booster II Sisters Core Scanner Probe, Qty: 9 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Warrior II, Qty: 2 (Drone Bay) Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I, Qty: 2 Imperial Navy Cap Recharger Dropped items: Khanid Navy Cap Recharger Drone Link Augmentor I, Qty: 2 Valkyrie II (Drone Bay) Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane, Qty: 2 Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Hammerhead II, Qty: 5 (Drone Bay) 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I, Qty: 2 Warrior II, Qty: 3 (Drone Bay) Large Armor Repairer II Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Sisters Expanded Probe L That mixed in with a slave set (2 low grade, 3 high grade, no omega) and an EHP of 155K (in a nerfed offensive/defensive system i might add) i'd say something is a bit skewed. I understand Incusion is for group PVE but c'mon? 10 Frigs? My cap was dry in about 40 secs, 3 of my 5 t2 valkyries where oneshotted 10 seconds after launch.... Just make sure those Sansha frigs will drop BPC's because if non NPC Sansha frigs are overpowered like that i want one too! Ohh and I didn't even get to kill one let alone target for more than 10 seconds aswell... ___________ NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth Pink is the color of passion xxx Shadow
Reddx Panther	Posted - 2010.10.16 01:05:00 - [27] Ran a few ungated Incursion sites in the 'vanguard state' Ilonarav system with my alt in a Nighthawk. The rats showed a bit of AI and didn't like my drones at all, which is nice, but at the end of the day they will still stay on grid and die like sheep, so why the hassle? They should warp away or something. No sane combat pilot would stay around in a frig without point and backup and aggress a command ship. But then all the rats do. Sigh. A few message boxes and a progress bar in local don't really convey much in terms of story yet, so what remains is asteroid belts with a few guaranteed re-spawns. Some designer guys had the grand idea to spray some OMG-space-sauce aka 'nebula' into the grids. Please add an option so that we can deactivate those 'nebulas', they are an eyesore and make my graphics adapter go crazy. Made then the mistake to warp into a gated plex where my Nighthawk didn't do any damage and got ****d within a few moments. Yawn. It's worse than jumping into a sizeable 0.0 gate camp with a destroyer, wtf. Well, if you want to read some of my suggestions and expectations about the incursion feature, here they are - Jump gates to incursion systems should be 'shut down' by big concord or local faction armadas, them warning or prohibiting you to jump through (faction standing/ship types) - agents-in-space where you can get missions for your ship/SP/fleet competence level (level 1-5 agents), please no anonymous message box pop-ups from the unknown game designer entity, but adequate instructions and warnings about the more dangerous plexes - stations are camped by sizeable Sansha fleets, docked pilots can't safely exit station like during regular wardec (big pain for corps that have lots of assets stashed in an incursion system, they'll be all over the rats to get the incursion to move away) - stabilized wormholes/jump gate into sansha 0.0 space that can be used by characters with high sansha faction standing to join the incursion as bad guys - delayed, non-lethal concord intervention similar to faction warfare in incursion systems to encourage pvpers to come through sansha jump gates Hope it gets much better.
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2010.10.16 01:40:00 - [28] The rats are over powered. Yes, this is for team work, but these rats are going to kill newer players too quickly. At a minimum, warp scrams on the rats should be removed for the sake of younger players that would like to join their corp on an adventure. As for solo players, or people that dislike wasting time waiting on others to get thier **** together, this feature will be ignored. The Real Space Initiative - V6 (Forum Link)
Alyth Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.10.16 18:04:00 - [29] Originally by: Freyya Edited by: Freyya on 15/10/2010 22:13:19 Edited by: Freyya on 15/10/2010 22:10:52 I can confirm that, after testing a 0,5 system incursion, the rats are insanely overpowered. 10 Frigs took down my navy domi in ohhh...less than 2 minutes? FRIGS CCP..FRIGS? snip That mixed in with a slave set (2 low grade, 3 high grade, no omega) and an EHP of 155K (in a nerfed offensive/defensive system i might add) i'd say something is a bit skewed. I understand Incusion is for group PVE but c'mon? 10 Frigs? My cap was dry in about 40 secs, 3 of my 5 t2 valkyries where oneshotted 10 seconds after launch.... Just make sure those Sansha frigs will drop BPC's because if non NPC Sansha frigs are overpowered like that i want one too! Ohh and I didn't even get to kill one let alone target for more than 10 seconds aswell... Sounds about right to me, they seem to be wanting them to emulate players. 10 player frigs with neut and nos (and jugger torpedos by the looks of things :p) would prolly drop a PvE fit domi in about the same amount of time tbh. Remember, Sansha ships get the 100% damage to lasers role bonus on top of skill bonus so its equivalent to being hit by ~8 turrets per ship. 80 small lasers do a lot of damage very quickly
Doctor Ungabungas Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.10.17 02:38:00 - [30] Originally by: Reddx Panther Ran a few ungated Incursion sites in the 'vanguard state' Ilonarav system with my alt in a Nighthawk. The rats showed a bit of AI and didn't like my drones at all, which is nice, but at the end of the day they will still stay on grid and die like sheep, so why the hassle? They should warp away or something. No sane combat pilot would stay around in a frig without point and backup and aggress a command ship. But then all the rats do. Sigh. If you were able to solo any of the sites at all in any configuration, you are not playing the same 'dungeons' that everyone else is. (ie: Poitot etal).

Freyya Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2010.10.17 10:23:00 - [31] Originally by: Alyth Originally by: Freyya Edited by: Freyya on 15/10/2010 22:13:19 Edited by: Freyya on 15/10/2010 22:10:52 I can confirm that, after testing a 0,5 system incursion, the rats are insanely overpowered. 10 Frigs took down my navy domi in ohhh...less than 2 minutes? FRIGS CCP..FRIGS? snip That mixed in with a slave set (2 low grade, 3 high grade, no omega) and an EHP of 155K (in a nerfed offensive/defensive system i might add) i'd say something is a bit skewed. I understand Incusion is for group PVE but c'mon? 10 Frigs? My cap was dry in about 40 secs, 3 of my 5 t2 valkyries where oneshotted 10 seconds after launch.... Just make sure those Sansha frigs will drop BPC's because if non NPC Sansha frigs are overpowered like that i want one too! Ohh and I didn't even get to kill one let alone target for more than 10 seconds aswell... Sounds about right to me, they seem to be wanting them to emulate players. 10 player frigs with neut and nos (and jugger torpedos by the looks of things :p) would prolly drop a PvE fit domi in about the same amount of time tbh. Remember, Sansha ships get the 100% damage to lasers role bonus on top of skill bonus so its equivalent to being hit by ~8 turrets per ship. 80 small lasers do a lot of damage very quickly Ohh i understand they want them to behave like players but the main gripe is this; Show me any 10 player bomber fleet (since the sansha frigs are obviously bombers) that can shoot lasers, jug torps, jam, neut AND scram without running out of cap in 10 seconds. It's not so much a fleet of 10 flimsy bombers you're looking at, it's more like 10 battlecruiser tanked ships with torps and lasers and neuts and scrams and jams. I went in fully expecting to lose the (PVP/PVE fitted) navyD, but not to 10 frigs that act like battlecruisers. If i fitted for Sansha's purely my tank would have lasted longer but i'd still have ran out of cap and would be unable to target anything. ___________ NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth Pink is the color of passion xxx Shadow
gfldex	Posted - 2010.10.17 12:57:00 - [32] Originally by: Freyya I went in fully expecting to lose the (PVP/PVE fitted) navyD, but not to 10 frigs that act like battlecruisers. If i fitted for Sansha's purely my tank would have lasted longer but i'd still have ran out of cap and would be unable to target anything. The only way to force players to come with a group to group content is sick damage or neuts and sick damage. If you assume you can tank bombers with a BS you are a bad player and thus supposed to lose your ship.
Freyya Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2010.10.17 14:02:00 - [33] Originally by: gfldex Originally by: Freyya I went in fully expecting to lose the (PVP/PVE fitted) navyD, but not to 10 frigs that act like battlecruisers. If i fitted for Sansha's purely my tank would have lasted longer but i'd still have ran out of cap and would be unable to target anything. The only way to force players to come with a group to group content is sick damage or neuts and sick damage. If you assume you can tank bombers with a BS you are a bad player and thus supposed to lose your ship. You quoted the part that was easiest to answer and you still fail in giving a good answer.... I WENT IN EXPECTING TO LOSE IT. Nowhere do i state i thought i could tank bombers y'know.. I also didn't actually know the frig rats behave like bombers but that aside; 10 Player bombers are a pain with torps but you can kill them fairly easy since they are flimsy and can't do anything else but stay and shoot to die or shoot and warp off. Sure you can lose your ship but not before killing a couple of them and buying yourself more time. NPC bombers should really be the same instead of OMGWTF they can do everything at once and tank like t2 battlecruisers while stomping you in the face with an anvil! Giving NPC's above god stats is not the only way to get people in a group you know.. You could also just give them skilled player like ships and stats so you get a mixed NPC fleet with some for DPS, some for ewar, some for RR. Not all fitted the same and do everything at the same time. ___________ NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth Pink is the color of passion xxx Shadow
Khadann Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.17 14:45:00 - [34] I did not tried it but based on the current comments, i already feel i won't use this feature if it is even harder to beat NPCs. I thought the point of incursion was to make easier grouping, public fleets, casual players grouping with experienced players from other corps... Fun and non boring experiences :) Reading these comments, i just feel like this feature won't be for me ... And remind maybe EVE is not for me neither (as a casual player) : I have a BC, but a bad fitted one and clearly, from what i have read, i will for sure lose my BC :( I just want to group with people easily and enjoy a little bit of advanced PVE content The first day i have seen the annoucement of incursion, i almost thought this feature could be instance based, with a 'super' jump to instantly play PVE or something like this. Sre such choice would have scared old players... Anyway i had hope for this next extention, but i guess i won't stay more than 2 months and then make a 5 months break, as usual :( SOrry for the off topic Hya!
bassie12bf1	Posted - 2010.10.18 16:30:00 - [35] Well I have not participated in any tests so far, but I must say, I really like the Graphical Features that are available system wide, and I hope such will become available outside those systems.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2010.10.18 16:36:00 - [36] Just from the latest test - some frig sites. We were rifter, punisher, thrasher and ishkur. It was really easy going. We killed the sansha frigs in less than 10 minutes. And everyone in fleet got 10 mil isk reward. The reward goes only to the fleet that did the most damage. So ... no cloaky isk reward thief Of course all is work in progress I guess and still heavy balancing. But it is looking not too bad so far. Gang together with some folks in cheap destroyers and have some pew pew fun at the small sites. Though I had the impression that it was too easy this time now.
Spc One Gallente	Posted - 2010.10.20 03:51:00 - [37] Edited by: Spc One on 20/10/2010 03:52:55 I tryed battleship one (Nation commander). There isn't a ship in eve capable of tanking this i get wrecking hits about 4500 in about 74% to em resistance and 68% to thermal with golem. Npc's also, track disrtupt, ecm, web, scramble, nos .. etc etc. ____________________________________________________________________________ Angel 0/A
Pytria Le'Danness	Posted - 2010.10.20 06:47:00 - [38] Edited by: Pytria Le''Danness on 20/10/2010 06:49:31 I was headed to Brarel yesterday but run into a possible bug that needed looking into, so I arrived way too late to take part. Since I was there already I tried to look at the various sites and effects of Sansha incursions. First impression: wait, they generate a cyno block? And that is wrong because ...? In essence some people might be interested in keeping the Sansha there in order to prevent hot drops or capital assaults on POS. There's also mention of a war tax and offensive and defensive modifiers, but I could not quickly discern what effect that had. I also saw no difference between systems where the incursion bar was fully or just partially red. Some more information might be needed. Having the incursions have some effect on the "regular population" is a good idea IMO, because it might cause them to become involved while they normally wouldn't. I was in fact hoping that FW would have such an influence and cause industrialists or other non-combatants to take an interest in the action as well. However this only works if it involves everyone. I haven't been to high sec on SiSi yet, but if a low sec incursion has influence on nearby high sec worlds industrialists might be inclined to finance combat corps to get rid of the pests. Or simply move to greener pastures. Will the incursions help low sec? I don't know yet. Anyway, so I took my ancient mission Domi I found in the area into one of the Sansha sites (of which there are plenty, easily half a dozen and more per system). The names are not very descriptive so I took one that sounded less dangerous than the others. My Sansha-tanked Domi (~90k hp vs Sansha) died in less than a minute (I got off four salvoes, so it was less than 30 seconds) to two BS and a handful of small fry - I took screenshots (which didn't help surviving of course) but the overview got cut off so I cannot tell how much ships there were - eight or so. I knew I was probably going to lose the ship but that amount of firepower appears to be overpowered, especially since no information is available about how dangerous the idividual sites are. Of course the knowledge on how to tank them and the relative danger will quickly appear on the relevant web sites, but if these incursions happen anywhere where new players can reach them I'd definitely add some warning messages before entering, akin the DED warnings on the static complexes. The popup describing the mission did not mention anything. I cannot really judge the difficulty since I was unable to even dent one of the target's shields - this Domi usually one- or twoshots the Serp BCs, yet the Sansha BS shield was barely touched when I died. Some of the ships were doing some EWAR though, I am not sure if that affected my shooting. Considering that the site had a gate and thus tactically clever warp-ins do not work I am a bit disappointed. Like the Sleepers the new Sansha seem to rely on overwhelming damage and overpowered EWAR combined with a super tank instead of a clever AI or intelligent selection of ship types. If the goal was to make the PvE fights against them more like PvP you should supply something that requires tactical thinking - in PvP if you shoot or ECM the logistics you break the best PvP group, but with the Sleepers (and most likely the new Sansha) the only real option is brute force since even the "support ships" are brutal and tough all at once. I am also concerned about the use of public beacons in low sec. Seeing how dangerous and tough the New Sansha are I expect these fights to last for a while. This is the perfect opportunity for pirates to come by and get some juicy kill mails, made easier by the fact that the targets are already in over their heads. Unless the Sansha switch targets REALLY fast when someone new drops into the site the pirates can easily interfere with the operation.
GodsVervloek Invictus Australis BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.10.20 21:18:00 - [39] I tried to get a fleet together, but apparently my timezone only had 50 people online and they weren't anywhere near the incursion site I chose. Can't recall the name but it had a few frigs, cruisers, and about 10 BS. So I setup an active shield tank Loki (Tengu skills not mirrored yet), PVE fit, 220mm AC's and Warrior drones. I managed to kill 1 frig, and fled with my ship on fire. I tried to keep my transversal up so the BS won't hurt so much, but one BS managed to take about 45% of my shield in one hit. Drones got instapopped, and I had a hell-of-a time tracking that one frig. Seeing how difficult these NPC's are and that the location is visible to everyone in EVE (pirate picnic), I don't see many carebear fleets suiciding themselves trying to get to a low-sec site. I hope we'll have the same range of sites spawning in high-sec, otherwise we have level 5 missions all over again, i.e. very few people do them cause the risk FAR outweighs the reward.
Undiscovered Glitch Gallente 1-EYE	Posted - 2010.10.21 18:55:00 - [40] I participated in a test yesterday and was going to submit my feedback today. Unfortunately, the character to send the EVEMail to does not appear to exist on SiSi anymore. Am I correct? If so, where do I send the feedback?

Noxford	Posted - 2010.10.21 23:01:00 - [41] I can't believe people are in here complaining about something that will stimulate group pve. That's really good for the pvper. :) Getting intel on a guy soloing a plex who warps off and cloaks... is total blueballs. PvE fleets wont be able to be undetected and evasive. Why exactly are we complaining that we cant SOLO them? Is there anything other than the learning curve that is actually HARD in EVE? Seriously. It's nice to see something worth doing other than ****ing Sanctums.
Spc One Gallente	Posted - 2010.10.22 02:14:00 - [42] Yea well even a 10 man fleet couldn't handle this "anomaly" ____________________________________________________________________________ Angel 0/A
ExoriGreg	Posted - 2010.10.23 17:07:00 - [43] Are there any incursion dungeons still alive in Poitot? I couldn't scan any today.
Jason Dunham	Posted - 2010.10.23 19:38:00 - [44] Honestly, the incursion system is a cool concept, but in practice only extremely large alliances who control the systems in which the incursions occur will run them. The risk for the incursion missions is about 10 times that of a lvl 5, throw in the sleeper style aggro, and they are almost un-doable. Before I learned about incursion, I was going to ask ccp for harder missions, something I couldn't solo. However, switching aggro makes logistics almost impossible, and if there's a good chance of losing ships, the rewards are going to need to be much more significant to be worth it. The concord rewards after the missions are laughable, especially since you are likely to lose several ships trying to get a good setup to run them. I will never run missions in lowsec, I don't care how much ccp loves pirates, in a pve ship I will not enter lowsec or nullsec. Those are strictly pvp regions, I don't enjoy giving other people easy kills. I mission to fund pvp, so I will not participate in incursion at all. Overall, a cool concept, but CCP made a feature that maybe 10% of players can participate in, congrats. My suggestion remains, just make realistic fits for the ships that we're fighting, decrease the number (or keep it the same, makes it harder) and leave aggro the way it is. That way logistics will be required to keep the tank alive, and more dps will be necessary to break the npc's tanks. It's not that hard of a concept, and then pve could be used as practice for pvp fleet ops. It's a win win situation, afterall, why would the huge pirate organizations fit their ships so badly and be so easy to kill? Jason Dunham
Kanatta Jing	Posted - 2010.10.24 04:38:00 - [45] Incursions in 0.0 will be done by the 0.0 corps that have access to that space. Low sec Incursions will be done by people with corps large enough to temporarily secure the space. High sec Incursions will be limited to people with large enough corps to do the sites and arrive first. This may not include you personally but it caters to well more then 10% of EVE.
Spc One Gallente	Posted - 2010.10.24 08:07:00 - [46] Let me remind you that maximum ship allowed in incursions is a Elite Battleship. So incursion is super ultra extremely hard, 70/70 plex if you ask me. ____________________________________________________________________________ Angel 0/A
Kanatta Jing	Posted - 2010.10.24 10:47:00 - [47] True, ganking in an Incursion is going be tricky.
McFly Peanut Factory	Posted - 2010.10.25 21:36:00 - [48] I ran a couple of the "bomber" plexs and found that the key to surviving is signature. My guardian was able to ab/sig tank the dps incoming from the bombers. Battleships on the other hand that were with us would almost instamelt. So logistics ships like an ArmorHAC Guardian setup are very survivable to keep the DPSers on the field. We had a Paladin drop from full health to structure in a few seconds, thankfully the guardians were able to get reps on him (he didnt broadcast) in time and pulled him back up. 2 guardians were even able to keep a shield tanked basilisk up against the Incursion Frigs almost effortlessly. In my opinion to complete the incursions the best setup would be a loki bonused small armorHAC gang with 1 Guardian for every 2-3 HACs. Webs and Light Drones also help a lot. A couple of Webs makes hitting the frigates very easy. So as long as ur logistic Pilots are paying attention and people broadcast I don't see any reason this couldn't be taken to the larger sites.
Soldarius Independent Coalition DEM0N HUNTERS	Posted - 2010.10.27 00:38:00 - [49] Originally by: Freyya Edited by: Freyya on 15/10/2010 22:13:19 Edited by: Freyya on 15/10/2010 22:10:52 I can confirm that, after testing a 0,5 system incursion, the rats are insanely overpowered. 10 Frigs took down my navy domi in ohhh...less than 2 minutes? FRIGS CCP..FRIGS? 2010.10.15 21:58:00 Victim: Freyya Corp: Advanced Planetary Exports Alliance: Intergalactic Exports Group Faction: Unknown Destroyed: Dominix Navy Issue System: Ihal Security: 0.5 Damage Taken: 84092 Involved parties: Name: Sansha Juggernaut Torpedo / Sansha's Nation (laid the final blow) Damage Done: 84092 Destroyed items: Khanid Navy Cap Recharger, Qty: 2 Large Trimark Armor Pump II, Qty: 2 Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I Hobgoblin II, Qty: 5 (Drone Bay) Valkyrie II (Drone Bay) Bouncer II, Qty: 5 (Drone Bay) Corpum A-Type Energized Reactive Membrane Sensor Booster II Sisters Core Scanner Probe, Qty: 9 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Warrior II, Qty: 2 (Drone Bay) Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I, Qty: 2 Imperial Navy Cap Recharger Dropped items: Khanid Navy Cap Recharger Drone Link Augmentor I, Qty: 2 Valkyrie II (Drone Bay) Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane, Qty: 2 Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Hammerhead II, Qty: 5 (Drone Bay) 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I, Qty: 2 Warrior II, Qty: 3 (Drone Bay) Large Armor Repairer II Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Sisters Expanded Probe L That mixed in with a slave set (2 low grade, 3 high grade, no omega) and an EHP of 155K (in a nerfed offensive/defensive system i might add) i'd say something is a bit skewed. I understand Incusion is for group PVE but c'mon? 10 Frigs? My cap was dry in about 40 secs, 3 of my 5 t2 valkyries where oneshotted 10 seconds after launch.... Just make sure those Sansha frigs will drop BPC's because if non NPC Sansha frigs are overpowered like that i want one too! Ohh and I didn't even get to kill one let alone target for more than 10 seconds aswell... Well, looking at that it did take over 80k damage to kill you, and that does not take into account the damage reductions due to resistances. Those frigs were using faction torps (Sansha Jugs). To me, that means stealth bomber-like frigs. But that km doesn't make much sense. A torpedo is not an invloved party, its a round of ammunition. An no faction torp does 80k damage after resistances. I know its SiSi. But could you give some more details? Were frigs using lasers, torps, or both? Perhaps they are some sort of faction bomber? "When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk."
iudex	Posted - 2010.10.31 16:54:00 - [50] Edited by: iudex on 31/10/2010 16:57:57 Originally by: CCP Tanis ... What reward do you think would be fair for this level of difficulty? ... This and this in the CONCORD LP store. __________________________ http://eveboard.com/pilot/iudex

Kanatta Jing	Posted - 2010.11.01 05:40:00 - [51] Plain old +# implants aren't actually fun. A complete selection of "confiscated" pirate ship BPC's might be that extra hammer needed to cut down T2 prices once and for all though.
iudex	Posted - 2010.11.02 18:10:00 - [52] Plain old you say ? I've been looking for them for years, will pay 5 or 10 billion for one ... Another thing I'd like to see as reward are some special skillbooks, that are very expensive and/or rare, to add a little uniqueness to our characters. How about the missing DED skillbook, or one that adds +1% shield or armor HP per level. I hope they don't simply put something in the stores, that is already in game, such as a concord modified invulnerability field, with the same stats as the Gurista or Caldari Navy ones. __________________________ http://eveboard.com/pilot/iudex
Soden Rah Gallente Rapier Industry and Technology Second Sun Rising	Posted - 2010.11.02 22:46:00 - [53] Edited by: Soden Rah on 02/11/2010 22:48:29 Originally by: Freyya Edited by: Freyya on 15/10/2010 22:13:19 Edited by: Freyya on 15/10/2010 22:10:52 I can confirm that, after testing a 0,5 system incursion, the rats are insanely overpowered. 10 Frigs took down my navy domi in ohhh...less than 2 minutes? FRIGS CCP..FRIGS? 2010.10.15 21:58:00 Victim: Freyya Corp: Advanced Planetary Exports Alliance: Intergalactic Exports Group Faction: Unknown Destroyed: Dominix Navy Issue System: Ihal Security: 0.5 Damage Taken: 84092 Involved parties: Name: Sansha Juggernaut Torpedo / Sansha's Nation (laid the final blow) Damage Done: 84092 Destroyed items: Khanid Navy Cap Recharger, Qty: 2 Large Trimark Armor Pump II, Qty: 2 Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I Hobgoblin II, Qty: 5 (Drone Bay) Valkyrie II (Drone Bay) Bouncer II, Qty: 5 (Drone Bay) Corpum A-Type Energized Reactive Membrane Sensor Booster II Sisters Core Scanner Probe, Qty: 9 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Warrior II, Qty: 2 (Drone Bay) Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I, Qty: 2 Imperial Navy Cap Recharger Dropped items: Khanid Navy Cap Recharger Drone Link Augmentor I, Qty: 2 Valkyrie II (Drone Bay) Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane, Qty: 2 Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Hammerhead II, Qty: 5 (Drone Bay) 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I, Qty: 2 Warrior II, Qty: 3 (Drone Bay) Large Armor Repairer II Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Sisters Expanded Probe L That mixed in with a slave set (2 low grade, 3 high grade, no omega) and an EHP of 155K (in a nerfed offensive/defensive system i might add) i'd say something is a bit skewed. I understand Incusion is for group PVE but c'mon? 10 Frigs? My cap was dry in about 40 secs, 3 of my 5 t2 valkyries where oneshotted 10 seconds after launch.... Just make sure those Sansha frigs will drop BPC's because if non NPC Sansha frigs are overpowered like that i want one too! Ohh and I didn't even get to kill one let alone target for more than 10 seconds aswell... This is what happens when you send a pvp'er to do a carebear's work. I am not suprised you were taken out by 10 frigs, I wouldn't be suprised if you were taken out by 3. this is PVE. loose the plates and the trimarks (ccc's are the way to go here). ditch the faction eanm's and go with active hards for sansha resits, (em thermal). your facing npc's which ignor all cap warefare, so fit guns (autocanon good on the domi, dont get bonused but they are easy to fit and don't use cap) and vamps not energy destabalisers. something like this [Dominix Navy Issue, weird sansha fit improved a bit] Large Armor Repairer II Large Armor Repairer II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Khanid Navy Cap Recharger Khanid Navy Cap Recharger Khanid Navy Cap Recharger Imperial Navy Cap Recharger Sensor Booster II Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L Drone Link Augmentor I Drone Link Augmentor I Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Valkyrie II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Bouncer II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Warrior II x2 now as this is suposed to be for groups and not soloable, then you should be loseing at least one if not both local reppers and going with RR instead, probably also so ECCM instead of the sensor booster. your galente so a DCU II probably aught to be on there... and what you get is something which reps 1283 (em/therm) dps cap stable, instead of 228 dps for 2 mins 18 seconds, which is what yours does. the armour EHP is only relevent in pve if its less than what the rats can do before your reppers (local or remote) kick in, any more is meaningless. As I say, send in the carebears..
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2010.11.03 05:07:00 - [54] Originally by: CCP Tanis ... What reward do you think would be fair for this level of difficulty? ... Tens of millions of ISK? Possibly hundreds? From what I've seen of the sites so far, you'd need to give something very, very substantial to convince people to run the substantial risk of loss and frustration that these sites entail. Else just like your other criminally abandoned pet project factional warfare, people will try out the new features for a while, realise they're not worth the time and then largely ignore them. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.03 11:17:00 - [55] Sounds like these new sites are intended to be run by tech 3 battleships which arent in game yet..... Thoughts well given ongoing low sec ner***e recently esp in non fw areas This will be a bigger isk printing machine for 00 alliances or under used. Low sec will remain high risk low return ( perhaps if ccp makes 0.1 and 0.2 about 50% more benefical than 0.3 and 0.4) just to split low sec up could have some intersting strategic outcomes to And high sec will continue to be risk free. Nothing about incursions signals anything other than 00 blobbage and everything else will be nuked
Pytria Le'Danness	Posted - 2010.11.04 13:10:00 - [56] Originally by: HeliosGal Sounds like... I would not say that, a challenge is something that EVE needs lately. What I don't like about the Sansha and Sleeper is the false advertising. Sure, the AI has improved a bit, but it's still far from being called anything but "dumb". The only reason Sleepers are dangerous is due to their superior firepower combined with extreme tank, something no player ship can combine. And while encouraging group PvE is a laudable thing (especially if it teaches you the PvP basics as well) I see PvE as something I do when I cannot get a group together. It's a step in the right direction, but IMO wearing the wrong boots of superpowers that can only be countered by a PvE fitted blob.
Ex Mudder Gallente Oberon Incorporated	Posted - 2010.11.12 06:55:00 - [57] Wtf? I had to equip my scorpion with 2 Miner IIs to complete a site. There were 6 of us in BSs, and we each lost 1 and reshipped. I think the system wide penalties are overkill tbh. And ofc the place you have to take the ore is 85 km from the rock you mine it from. Fwiw, my Scorp did a much better job than my Raven. This site really needs a HAC gang.
Neutrino Sunset Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse True Reign	Posted - 2010.11.13 01:41:00 - [58] This won't be an isk machine for nullsec alliances since running these in nullsec will have practically zero reward. The reason for that is that the cyno jam effect will require nullsec alliances to clear the incursion as quick as they can, and because the payout scale requires you to use small fleets of a specific size and spend hours clearing an anomally to get any reward that will mean that nullsec alliances obliged to use larger fleets to clear the incursion quickly will get no post mission payout, and the supercarrier BPO only drops in lowsec.
xo3e The Deliberate Forces HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.11.13 11:49:00 - [59] Edited by: xo3e on 13/11/2010 11:51:04 ololo only those who were taking part in killing supercarrier boss may open its loot container. yo dawg! we heard you like world of warcraft please tell me.. is this game named "KIND FAIRIES ONLINE" ? where is the goddamnd dark and grim future where even my beloved grandmother can steal my precious loot? whats wrong with you CCP? maim, kill, burn!
Takseen	Posted - 2010.11.13 11:57:00 - [60] Originally by: xo3e Edited by: xo3e on 13/11/2010 11:51:04 ololo only those who were taking part in killing supercarrier boss may open its loot container. yo dawg! we heard you like world of warcraft please tell me.. is this game named "KIND FAIRIES ONLINE" ? where is the goddamnd dark and grim future where even my beloved grandmother can steal my precious loot? whats wrong with you CCP? Clearly you need to work a bit harder, by first infiltrating a corp that runs Incursions, gaining their trust, helping them kill the boss, and then stealing the loot and running like hell.

Kralin Ignatov Gallente Macabre Votum	Posted - 2010.11.13 20:17:00 - [61] Subject: ("National Commander Stronghold) ("18") ("Moderate") * Your overall rating for this site ( 1 - crap, 10 - totally awesome)?: 9 * How long did it take?: 45min * What reward do you think would be fair for this level of difficulty?: One currently provided, perhaps even a 20% increase * What did you find good about this dungeon?: Lots of damage and tank thrown around. Good challenge * What did you find bad about this dungeon?: sniper rats where annoying as hell, and mwding rats where difficult to control. (i.e. cant be countered w/ neuts or scrams) * Do you feel your group was coordinated?: Yes, all were on coms, in proper ships (armor fleet, t3 + logi + bs), and broadcasting * How do you feel about the NPC behavior?: more pvp-like then i have seen before. Although rats would switch targets a little early sometimes (nearly killed a scorp, but didn't feel like it i guess) * What ships did you have in your fleet?: armor logis(4), t3(lokis for webs), RR bs and a few armor hacs * Were you using PvE or PvP fit ships to attempt/complete this dungeon?: The only thing pve about our ship fits were lack of neuts, lack of disruptors / scrams, and cap rechargers instead of boosters I believe if can shut down RR, ECM, or MWD'n by neuting the sansha rats, and can shut down their MWD's w/ scrams, i believe you will see a lot more pvp-esque fleet setups. right now there is no point to fit either. ______________________ There once was a killboard for BoB, then there was no BoB. - killboard.net
Doctero Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2010.11.13 23:56:00 - [62] Originally by: Kralin Ignatov Subject: ("National Commander Stronghold) ("18") ("Moderate") * Your overall rating for this site ( 1 - crap, 10 - totally awesome)?: 9 * How long did it take?: 45min * What reward do you think would be fair for this level of difficulty?: One currently provided, perhaps even a 20% increase * What did you find good about this dungeon?: Lots of damage and tank thrown around. Good challenge * What did you find bad about this dungeon?: sniper rats where annoying as hell, and mwding rats where difficult to control. (i.e. cant be countered w/ neuts or scrams) * Do you feel your group was coordinated?: Yes, all were on coms, in proper ships (armor fleet, t3 + logi + bs), and broadcasting * How do you feel about the NPC behavior?: more pvp-like then i have seen before. Although rats would switch targets a little early sometimes (nearly killed a scorp, but didn't feel like it i guess) * What ships did you have in your fleet?: armor logis(4), t3(lokis for webs), RR bs and a few armor hacs * Were you using PvE or PvP fit ships to attempt/complete this dungeon?: The only thing pve about our ship fits were lack of neuts, lack of disruptors / scrams, and cap rechargers instead of boosters I believe if can shut down RR, ECM, or MWD'n by neuting the sansha rats, and can shut down their MWD's w/ scrams, i believe you will see a lot more pvp-esque fleet setups. right now there is no point to fit either. First good post in this thread so far. Nice work. And that last bit is right on. Rats should be vulnerable to ALL forms of ewar, then pve and pvp fits can be one and the same.
Pytria Le'Danness	Posted - 2010.11.14 15:01:00 - [63] (Override Transfer Array) (12) (Moderate) Your overall rating for this site ( 1 - crap, 10 - totally awesome)?: 3 How long did it take?: roughly 90 mins What reward do you think would be fair for this level of difficulty?: 20-25M ISK per pilot, say 250M in total What did you find good about this dungeon?: What did you find bad about this dungeon?: the control array jumping around was VERY annoying Do you feel your group was coordinated?: could have been better How do you feel about the NPC behavior?: unable to judge What ships did you have in your fleet?: mainly armor BS, 2 Guardians, some odds and ends Were you using PvE or PvP fit ships to attempt/complete this dungeon?: more PvE than PvP General Feedback (keep it short and sweet): I joined the fleet late so they might have had killed some ships already. Add some minutes then. Some sort of control array kept repairing/buffing the resists of the Sansha ships and needed hacking - I saw no hint about that but was told by the fleet. Once hacked you had a few minutes to kill ships until the dingus appeared some 100km away again. Although we had more than a dozen ships the area took very long and several ships died (shield tankers or people who broadcasted late). Killing the Sansha was also tough, any L4 mission would have melted under our firepower in a few minutes. I was also at times webbed, neuted, ECM'ed and generally subjected to a plethora of EWar - I want a player ship that EWars, tanks and does damage like that. I cannot speak much for the AI as I mostly watched my fleet. I was targetted a few times but managed to speed-tank even without the second Logi when needed. After a while the NPCs left me alone again except for one cruiser which locked me for a long time although he was 90km away. Overall I found the site boring. Shoot. Hack. Shoot more. Drive a few 100km, hack again. Shoot more. Repeat for over an hour - and this was supposed to be a "moderate" site. I liked that the incoming damage was manageable, but we had a pretty strong fleet - what happens if you are suboptimal? If these missions happen in low sec or 0.0 add the risk of player pirates to this. Reward: 302 LP per pilot. No loot, no bounty. Underwhelmage. Salvage not attempted.
Hazavwa	Posted - 2010.11.15 01:01:00 - [64] Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness (Override Transfer Array) (12) (Moderate) Your overall rating for this site ( 1 - crap, 10 - totally awesome)?: 3 How long did it take?: roughly 90 mins What reward do you think would be fair for this level of difficulty?: 20-25M ISK per pilot, say 250M in total What did you find good about this dungeon?: What did you find bad about this dungeon?: the control array jumping around was VERY annoying Do you feel your group was coordinated?: could have been better How do you feel about the NPC behavior?: unable to judge What ships did you have in your fleet?: mainly armor BS, 2 Guardians, some odds and ends Were you using PvE or PvP fit ships to attempt/complete this dungeon?: more PvE than PvP General Feedback (keep it short and sweet): I joined the fleet late so they might have had killed some ships already. Add some minutes then. Some sort of control array kept repairing/buffing the resists of the Sansha ships and needed hacking - I saw no hint about that but was told by the fleet. Once hacked you had a few minutes to kill ships until the dingus appeared some 100km away again. Although we had more than a dozen ships the area took very long and several ships died (shield tankers or people who broadcasted late). Killing the Sansha was also tough, any L4 mission would have melted under our firepower in a few minutes. I was also at times webbed, neuted, ECM'ed and generally subjected to a plethora of EWar - I want a player ship that EWars, tanks and does damage like that. I cannot speak much for the AI as I mostly watched my fleet. I was targetted a few times but managed to speed-tank even without the second Logi when needed. After a while the NPCs left me alone again except for one cruiser which locked me for a long time although he was 90km away. Overall I found the site boring. Shoot. Hack. Shoot more. Drive a few 100km, hack again. Shoot more. Repeat for over an hour - and this was supposed to be a "moderate" site. I liked that the incoming damage was manageable, but we had a pretty strong fleet - what happens if you are suboptimal? If these missions happen in low sec or 0.0 add the risk of player pirates to this. Reward: 302 LP per pilot. No loot, no bounty. Underwhelmage. Salvage not attempted. Reading this i think i may have been in this fleet as a guardian pilot, if not then this is the exact same experience that i came out with. I have done some of the other incursions and they were very very awesome, 9 out of 10 But when we came to this one, i felt we spent alot of time trying to figure out what needed to be done next, i feel that the structure that needs to be hacked should maybe only need to be hacked once and then let us get on with killing those sansha's Because at the moment, it is hack a structure, and then try and kill a sansha before the structure spawns again some 100km away, repping its team to indestructible again. and it was just to repetitive and at such a slow rate. Kinda took the fast pace and fun out of it which the other ones i've tried all have. From what i've played so far the incursions are defiantly fun. Its nice to jump into a system and say 'hey.. any gangs' and then just join up and have fun. Could maybe do with 20% more loyalty point reward to make them even nicer Maybe even making the lowsec incursions give different loyalty points with the sansha supercarrier in the store. That way its not first to grab wins. And keeps the carrier for the people willing to risk lowsec. Could role play it with concord willing to give you some special loyalty points on the side for risking your ship in the pirate infested lowsec regions of space. just an idea anyways
Al'kanree	Posted - 2010.11.15 08:43:00 - [65] (Override Transfer Array) (12) (Moderate) MHC * Your overall rating for this site ( 1 - crap, 10 - totally awesome)?: 5 * How long did it take?: roughly 70 mins * What reward do you think would be fair for this level of difficulty?: 20-25M ISK per pilot, say 250M in total * What did you find good about this dungeon?: * What did you find bad about this dungeon?: crazy * Do you feel your group was coordinated?: yep * How do you feel about the NPC behavior?: incredible * What ships did you have in your fleet?: 4 dominix RR in atillery, 2 oneiros solo RR, 2 other BS and 2 T3 * Were you using PvE or PvP fit ships to attempt/complete this dungeon?: PVP for RR * General Feedback (keep it short and sweet): I am not very happy with the neutralizer you don't have enough choice about weapon. That will be Artillery, Drone or Missile. With my Armageddon (laser) I have always out off capa during the fight and normaly I was stable a 45%. Without Capa the laser and hybrid doesn't work " tank CCP for Amarr and Gallente, Every player will become minmatarr ". The NPC make a incredible Alpha when they change target very hard for BB RR to switch for RR (time to look and put the RR). Fitting of the fleet was about increadible buffer armor omni tank and a lot of RR. I hope the income will be heavy because it's really hard work. I believe also that will be to easy for pvp to come and make a carnage in this beacon. You come in the system with 5 bomber with bomb capa or other and make a carnage on the people make the beacon "Easy kill"
Firartix	Posted - 2010.11.15 19:10:00 - [66] Yohey. Idiot remark of the day: the devguy post said to "send AN EVE-MAIL", not post here :s I tried the Incursion system in a real incursion system yesterday, and was really disappointed by one aspect. It's not jamming, neuting, painting, webbing, or anything like that that is my concern but more raw dps output. As a logi pilot and w-space player, i came with idea that spider-logi was pure win against this, much like old w-space - but using PvP like fits (ECCM, more energy transfer, more focus on the tank). The best fit i could come up with is for the Guardian: <High slot> 4x meta4 armor RR 2x meta4 energy RR <one to make it capstable with logi 5, second for anti-nos support> <Midslot> 1x T2 AB <speed tanking> 1x Radar ECCM <anti-jamming> <Low Slot> meta3 damage control <because meta4 or T2 won't fit because of CPU usage> 800mm armor plate meta4 thermic armor hardener meta4 em armor hardener <pretty much omni-tank> meta4 kinetic hardener <Rigs> Ancilliary Current Router (PG Rig) thermic pump 23kEHP with 100% assault resist malus applied, around 520m/s, 70m sig radius. Resists are 75+ omni with malus. This went down rather easy during fleet incursion runs, and i went in solo on an Assault (Overwhelmed Civilian Facility) site to check how long can that buffer last. 18:44:31 Notify Speed changed to 511 m/s 18:44:59 Combat Renyn Meten hits you, doing 347.3 damage. => last hit 28s for 23kEHP on a speedy and small ship... (should've been less, one of the BS missed its first shot - talking about which they had 80%+ accuracy overall) This seems like about the same damage than on a C6 Magnetometric. I did some with my corp before, and we could only do them with 2 or 3 spider logis, and that was in a Cataclysmic Variable (meaning 2x repaired amount).... besides, i'm pretty sure the DPS was slighty lower. So, how come an ASSAULT site can do that much damage? To me this means next-to-zero cruiser and frigate survivability, no matter what kind of backup you have. I saw this when we tested those in fleet: spider tanked BS had something like 75% survivability overall whereas everything from logi to stealth bomber or HAS was pretty much dead. I seriously don't like this because this would mean you have to capitalize onto using a single ship class and nothing else (besides I cannot fly BSses, but that's a different story :P) I'm telling this because from what i understood this is much like an attempt to bring PvP like gameplay to PvE, <Important note: i'm a total pvp noob> and from what i heard so far, almost any ship in PvP has a, be it tricky, specialized use and can be useful. Besides, if assault class do that much DPS... then Headquarters class looks completely impossible to me. I mean, 30 people instead of 15 means 2 times more DPS to me. And i feel like even a BS won't survive that kind of stuff... and they're meant to subcapital ships. How ironic, there's cyno jammers all over the place. So like.... i seriously don't get the whole Incursion tactics stuff... is it meant only for BS ?
Pytria Le'Danness	Posted - 2010.11.16 07:04:00 - [67] Edited by: Pytria Le''Danness on 16/11/2010 07:05:16 Originally by: Firartix Yohey. Idiot remark of the day: the devguy post said to "send AN EVE-MAIL", not post here :s I know, but that post was for the staged incursion tests a while ago. There is no "Watcher (0LTQ)" to send mail to. Besides this hopefully helps other people to avoid the same errors. Anyway, another run yesterday. I forgot to note down the name of the site and did not copy my logs over. (Something where you had to stuff civilians into a freighter) (8-13) (Hard) Your overall rating for this site ( 1 - crap, 10 - totally awesome)?: 7 How long did it take?: more than an hour What reward do you think would be fair for this level of difficulty?: 20M+ per pilot, based off L4 pay. Should probably be more for being in 0.0 What did you find good about this dungeon?: It was a good challenge and having an actual task besides blowing NPCs up is fun What did you find bad about this dungeon?: The main danger still seems to be super powered NPCs. They have massive DPS (and OOC omni damage as well) and no real weakness, so brute force seems to be the only way to win. Also the time needed to complete the site was too long. Do you feel your group was coordinated?: Good for such a rag-tag fleet. Voice, broadcasts, coordinated ship setups. How do you feel about the NPC behavior?: still undecided, see below What ships did you have in your fleet?: Mainly RR armor BS, 2-3 Logistic, some T3, odds and ends Were you using PvE or PvP fit ships to attempt/complete this dungeon?: PvE except for the RR General Feedback: The incoming DPS was extremely heavy, especially after NPC respawn. Sometimes NPCs seemed to focus fire, sometimes spread the love. I guess it's random. When a Paladin was primaried two Guardians could not keep it alive, and the sheer amount of NPCs was not helping as well. This was a "moderate Sansha presence" according to the Incursion Meter mind you. Do you need a whole alliance for a hard one? I arrived late when the fleet had already fought a wave and killed (and lost ) some ships. It still took over an hour to clear the site and we took some heavy losses while doing so; on TQ we would have required several warp-outs and probably lengthened the time to finish. As it was several pilots had to leave over the course of the fight. To coordinate the required amount of pilots and keep them around for that time will be another challenge. It was challenging and fun, but the latter only because losing a ship does not matter on SiSi - on TQ running this site would have been a desaster. In the end the reward was 18M per pilot plus some LP (I forgot to check). Completing the site took the Incursion Meter from 100% to 98%. Of course right now we do not know the rules, what happens when and what to do - this will improve over time. But TQ will also feature roaming pirate gangs - and the site was so tough that there is no room for mistakes or a Stealth Bomber lobbing a Torpedo at some key ship. I doubt the NPCs switch targets fast enough to prevent some easy ganks.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.11.16 10:26:00 - [68] Edited by: Tippia on 16/11/2010 10:28:33 I'm mainly wondering how representative we should consider the current SiSi build when it comes to things like frequency and spread of the incursions, and of the sites within those infestations? Is this something you're going to balance further, or can we expect to see more of them on TQ (since TQ has more hardware to handle them), or is the occurrence of incursions more tied to occupancy and population (ie the more populated an area, the higher the chance and number of incursions and/or sites)? The questions of fairness of the difficulty and level of rewards will kind of depend on how much competition there will be for these sites ù if there's only a handful of them, people might want to take into account the likelihood of "winning" one when considering if the rewards are worth it. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Pytria Le'Danness	Posted - 2010.11.17 21:31:00 - [69] More sites today, with a bit overkill on the logistics side: 2 x Guardian, 3 x Oneiros, several BS, Loki, ECM Tengu. Sansha Nation Commander - easy as pie except for one time where something two-shotted a BS out of the sky - it might have been the newly spawned Sansha commander. And that was WITH some reps on the BS. Mining site: no problem at all Overwhelmed civvie facility: same as in the post above, except my Guardian was shot down in two salvoes by a Romi Thalamus that did 50k damage in those two shots. Before it could easily tank being primaried although I am not sure if my transversal was good at that time (yes, I was still moving at full speed, not stuck or something. Just not sure about the direction). I am not sure if there is some freak combination that makes the NPCs do excessive damage at times. More tomorrow when I am somewhat awake again.
Alghara	Posted - 2010.11.18 07:41:00 - [70] National Commander Stronghold We have try to make this site with 0 losses and with standard fitting (no rig T2 or special ship like paladin t3 etc). Fleet type 5 dominix RR and 2 typhoon. After 10 minutes the sansha have break RR fleet (ECM on two dominix). The alpha was too heavy for RR. We lost 3 dominix and one typhoon when we have try to warp out. Conclusion : when you began to loose some crucial ship (logistic exemple). the loose is very heavy on the fleet, when you try to warp out with BS. Focus very good from sansha, heavy DPS and the scramble from Sansha work very well. lol

RedClaws Amarr Black Serpent Technologies R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.11.18 08:19:00 - [71] I see a lot of people here talking about 20m an hour isk rewards. I feel that is quite low since you can do a lot of other things by yourself that make more isk (lvl4's or high lvl anomalies). The effort of getting a group together and the larger chance of ship loss should be reflected in the isk/hour. I'd say 60 an hour, minimum.
Pytria Le'Danness	Posted - 2010.11.18 12:35:00 - [72] Originally by: RedClaws I see a lot of people here talking about 20m an hour isk rewards. I feel that is quite low since you can do a lot of other things by yourself that make more isk (lvl4's or high lvl anomalies). The effort of getting a group together and the larger chance of ship loss should be reflected in the isk/hour. I'd say 60 an hour, minimum. After checking the logs I tend to agree. Maybe not that exact number, but more than 20M/hour is appropriate IMO. Here is the log of the combat leading to the Guardian loss: [ 2010.11.17 20:26:37 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Romi Thalamus aims well at you, inflicting 1650.3 damage. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:37 ] (combat) Romi Thalamus misses you completely. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:37 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Romi Thalamus lightly hits you, doing 418.0 damage. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:42 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Romi Thalamus hits you, doing 479.7 damage. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:42 ] (combat) Romi Thalamus misses you completely. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:42 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Romi Thalamus barely scratches you, causing 368.0 damage. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:47 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Romi Thalamus barely scratches you, causing 372.9 damage. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:47 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Romi Thalamus strikes you perfectly, wrecking for 2746.0 damage. As you can see there is no massive 50k hit, but a hard hit followed by a wrecking hit. The "Romi"s had attacked me before and did similar damage but without that wrecking we were able to rep it up. But in this case I went from "not being targetted" to "in pod" in literally ten seconds, much too fast for the other logistics to react. So it was simply bad luck - and given that this stroke of bad luck can happen any time no matter how strong the fleet is the payment needs to reflect that added danger. On TQ this would have been a loss of roughly 150-200M. I cannot see many people risking their money after the novelty factor wears off when there are so many other SAFER means to earn that money. Add to that a hefty bonus for being in low- or null-sec. I also dislike the CONCORD LP being dependent on the actual completion of the Incursion. This might mean you never get the benefit of those LP - but I cannot judge that yet as the Incursions currently never finish. That reminds me - what are the rules for the influence changes? We cleared several sites and managed to push back the meter by 1-2% each. Both changes were quickly reset by the Sansha just being there. Of course this is the test server and not many people are around, but how many Incursions will be active at any one time on TQ? If they are that dangerous as they are right now I cannot see many people fight them after the "yay, new stuff!" effect wears off.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.11.18 13:41:00 - [73] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 18/11/2010 13:41:45 I have got some very strange results checking the resists in a system under a incursion. Apparently the negative effect upon my resists is 10% of the unresisted damage I have, i.e. if I have a 50% damage after the incursion effect my resists are reduced to 45%, while if I have 10% resists my resists are reduced to 1%. From the resists of the ship I used to test: Shield Normal Incursion system reduction in resists absolute numbers EM 36.25 29.875 10%63.75 -6.37 Expl 62.5 58.75 10%37.5 -3.75 Kin 56 50.5 b]10%44 -5.5[/b] X Ther 67 63.7 10%33 -3.3 something wrong here, probably I misread my resist and it was 55% Armor: Normal Incursion system reduction in resists absolute numbers EM 50 45 10%50 -5 Expl 10 1 10%90 -9 Kin 25 17.5 10%75 -7.5 Ther 45 39,5 10%55 -5.5 the thread about resists is here but hopefully this thread is read more often by Devs. (Currently the bug report system is not working, so no bug report, and then I don't know if it is a bug or some kind of intended feature)
Zetheral Paxton Industries -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.11.19 01:03:00 - [74] Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness After checking the logs I tend to agree. Maybe not that exact number, but more than 20M/hour is appropriate IMO. Here is the log of the combat leading to the Guardian loss: [ 2010.11.17 20:26:37 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Romi Thalamus aims well at you, inflicting 1650.3 damage. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:37 ] (combat) Romi Thalamus misses you completely. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:37 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Romi Thalamus lightly hits you, doing 418.0 damage. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:42 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Romi Thalamus hits you, doing 479.7 damage. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:42 ] (combat) Romi Thalamus misses you completely. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:42 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Romi Thalamus barely scratches you, causing 368.0 damage. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:47 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Romi Thalamus barely scratches you, causing 372.9 damage. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:47 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Romi Thalamus strikes you perfectly, wrecking for 2746.0 damage. As you can see there is no massive 50k hit, but a hard hit followed by a wrecking hit. The "Romi"s had attacked me before and did similar damage but without that wrecking we were able to rep it up. But in this case I went from "not being targetted" to "in pod" in literally ten seconds, much too fast for the other logistics to react. So it was simply bad luck - and given that this stroke of bad luck can happen any time no matter how strong the fleet is the payment needs to reflect that added danger. On TQ this would have been a loss of roughly 150-200M. I remember this lost, and yea it was over before we even knew what happened. One sec we had 5 logi then down one with no warning. Now we were doin an assault site, and if my interpretation of how we are supposed to do this site is correct then we shouldn't have been doin an assault site till we got the influence down by say 20%-25%. With that much lower influence we would have a better tank, thus making the Sansha hit softer. Even still this is a problem that CCP needs to look at. If logis are needed for these site, but they get one shot then how are we supposed to run them? As far as rewards go, atm you need to also look at what you can get from Concord LP, which on Sisi is a ton of hard wires and meta 2 cap mod BPCs (single run and 5 run). The production of these modes will greatly increase the over all income of the incursions, granted you have the ability to produce them. Still I agree that the overall isk reward should be increased. The reward from LP is delayed and it takes 37k LP to get a single run BPC ad 150k LP to get a 5 run. After a few days of running sites I only had about 16k LP in "limbo". With there being little loot and salvage, that means that only the person who is given the final item is the one truly getting rewarded, which at least for large null sec alliances will probably be an officer who will donate it the alliance. Making it so the LP and ISK are the only income from these sites and as said before running sanctums or havens makes money and it is something that can be done solo. Personally I will be running the sites for the LP to get meta cap mods (to help sell to corp/alliance members), and the fact that they are fun and challenging. Zeth I wish the cake wasnt a lie.....
Pytria Le'Danness	Posted - 2010.11.19 08:41:00 - [75] Originally by: Zetheral If logis are needed for these site, but they get one shot then how are we supposed to run them? Exactly my opinion. I don't mind danger and a challenge, but if a badly rolled die messes up hours of "work" when there are other options around to make money that are easier and safer the attendance will be very small. Good point about running other sites first, but on SiSi the incursions keep growing since there's too few people fighting them, and the Vanguard-class stuff was boring with our fleet
Al'kanree	Posted - 2010.11.19 12:41:00 - [76] I have also some general interrogation. When CCP introduct Dominion is for increase the number of player in 0.0. Now it's already really difficult for a small alliance to keep one place in 0.0 with new sov. For small alliance TCU and Ihub and SBU very difficult to destroy. The game mechanic is very bad to easy to put some sbu and the resistance before the onlining is to high for this module. Now with incursion. We have some incursion where this alliance have a chance to don't use sov and pay more isk and to have a lot of difficulty to remove the invasion. In the same time the NPC cost nothing, you have better income, the station can't be conquerable. You have also very good moon. The only reason not to have some sov it's to build super-capital or JB. Now with incursion you increase again the problem with sov because you need to pay more it's they are some incursion in your system. I don't now if they are really some interest to stay in 0.0 no NPC ????
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy Spreadsheets Online	Posted - 2010.11.20 08:08:00 - [77] What kind of incursion/invasion force doesnt have scout parties? Why not create scouting incursions which dont necessarily show up in journal but is crafted toward being soloable?
Pytria Le'Danness	Posted - 2010.11.20 08:39:00 - [78] Originally by: Jason Edwards Why not create scouting incursions which dont necessarily show up in journal but is crafted toward being soloable? The belt rats serve that purpose. There were a few rats in the belts that could be taken down with a solo battleship. You even get potential LP for it and it weakens the Incursion (or so it seems, the Incursion meter had a small animation showing "player progress" but the value stayed at 99%, rounding issues I guess)
Vidar Kentoran Minmatar Eighty Joule Brewery	Posted - 2010.11.20 19:33:00 - [79] Edited by: Vidar Kentoran on 20/11/2010 19:34:10 Haha 60M/hour? If Assault and Headquarters sites don't come out to at least 100M/hour after you account for grouping overhead etc, no one will ever want to touch this **** except when it's screwing up important systems. It shouldn't feel like a chore to do these things, they should be fun and you shouldn't have to worry about the reward being terrible. Vanguard sites can be more like 60-80M/hour, Assault 80-100, and Headquarters 100-120 for it to make any sense to do them. (Note that I'm including the value of LP rewards in this, obviously) Hell, it's relatively trivial to hit 80-100M/hour ratting anomalies with 2 characters, especially if one of them is in a Marauder and you pull in all the battleship loot. If this stuff is substantially worse than anomalies the whole expansion will be a total waste of time.
Me ofcourse	Posted - 2010.11.22 10:34:00 - [80] Name of site: The Kundalini Manifest Number of people to complete: 170+ difficulty: Hard Rating for site: 7 How long it take: 1 hour form up, another hour fighting Reward for site: 200 million to 400 million isk total Good about dungeon: finaly saw the mothership Bad about dungeon: mothership was too fast NPC Behavior: cruel :P (rather decent, good scripting) ships in fleet: everything but cap ships Ship used: PVP Battleship logi ship Feedback: If we are allowed to bring cap ships into the site, then yes the tank on the mothership is good (just add an armour tank as well on it) also keep the mother ship orbiting around the beacon about 100 KM out, that should keep it hard enough for everyone while providing difficulty to the site. PS: this is a late reply cause this was my first test so i didnt know what to do, only found out that i have to post this on the forums (sent an evemail to CCP Konfit instead on that night)

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.11.22 20:07:00 - [81] Originally by: Vidar Kentoran Haha 60M/hour? If Assault and Headquarters sites don't come out to at least 100M/hour after you account for grouping overhead etc, no one will ever want to touch this **** except when it's screwing up important systems. [à] Hell, it's relatively trivial to hit 80-100M/hour ratting anomalies with 2 characters, especially if one of them is in a Marauder and you pull in all the battleship loot. Soà 60M/h is worse than 40û50M/h (which is what you're getting with those anomalies)? Also, what grouping overhead? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Jean Roden Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2010.11.23 11:24:00 - [82] Why there are Alliance Tourment ships on the market?... is it a cruel joke of CCP.. to show +50k players that there are just 20 or less ships out there... and there are awesome
Lallante Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.11.26 05:23:00 - [83] Really enjoying the carebears going in with ragtag t1 fleets not on comms and getting slaughtered then whining the sites are too hard on here. Also the guys going in solo and dying in 30seconds and ranting. It seems a near-PvP fit fleet works best here. I have little doubt they are not too hard. It would definitely be better if NPCs were properly affected by ECM, neuts, scramblers etc AND warped out if the situation looked impossible (except if to do so would abandon high value ships). Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku
Lallante Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.11.26 05:34:00 - [84] Originally by: Zetheral Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness After checking the logs I tend to agree. Maybe not that exact number, but more than 20M/hour is appropriate IMO. Here is the log of the combat leading to the Guardian loss: [ 2010.11.17 20:26:37 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Romi Thalamus aims well at you, inflicting 1650.3 damage. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:37 ] (combat) Romi Thalamus misses you completely. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:37 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Romi Thalamus lightly hits you, doing 418.0 damage. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:42 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Romi Thalamus hits you, doing 479.7 damage. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:42 ] (combat) Romi Thalamus misses you completely. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:42 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Romi Thalamus barely scratches you, causing 368.0 damage. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:47 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Romi Thalamus barely scratches you, causing 372.9 damage. [ 2010.11.17 20:26:47 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Romi Thalamus strikes you perfectly, wrecking for 2746.0 damage. As you can see there is no massive 50k hit, but a hard hit followed by a wrecking hit. The "Romi"s had attacked me before and did similar damage but without that wrecking we were able to rep it up. But in this case I went from "not being targetted" to "in pod" in literally ten seconds, much too fast for the other logistics to react. So it was simply bad luck - and given that this stroke of bad luck can happen any time no matter how strong the fleet is the payment needs to reflect that added danger. On TQ this would have been a loss of roughly 150-200M. I remember this lost, and yea it was over before we even knew what happened. One sec we had 5 logi then down one with no warning. Now we were doin an assault site, and if my interpretation of how we are supposed to do this site is correct then we shouldn't have been doin an assault site till we got the influence down by say 20%-25%. With that much lower influence we would have a better tank, thus making the Sansha hit softer. Even still this is a problem that CCP needs to look at. If logis are needed for these site, but they get one shot then how are we supposed to run them? As far as rewards go, atm you need to also look at what you can get from Concord LP, which on Sisi is a ton of hard wires and meta 2 cap mod BPCs (single run and 5 run). The production of these modes will greatly increase the over all income of the incursions, granted you have the ability to produce them. Still I agree that the overall isk reward should be increased. The reward from LP is delayed and it takes 37k LP to get a single run BPC ad 150k LP to get a 5 run. After a few days of running sites I only had about 16k LP in "limbo". With there being little loot and salvage, that means that only the person who is given the final item is the one truly getting rewarded, which at least for large null sec alliances will probably be an officer who will donate it the alliance. Making it so the LP and ISK are the only income from these sites and as said before running sanctums or havens makes money and it is something that can be done solo. Personally I will be running the sites for the LP to get meta cap mods (to help sell to corp/alliance members), and the fact that they are fun and challenging. Zeth Bull**. The logs demonstrate about 600dps being applied to the logi (6000 total), admittedly 1/3 of the damage is done by a wrecking hit at the end but the reason the logi died is pilot error of the other logis not repping in time and a fit with not enough EHP. Logis should ALWAYS lock each other - total delay from dmg to repping should be sub 10 seconds anyway. All the complaints thus far can be summed up as "learn to fit your ships and fly in a gang and come back". People made identical comments about 10/10 complexes back in the day, which are now efficiently soloed by a triple boxer. Lall - THE Vocal Minority - Reikoku**
Chancellor November Gallente Everset Dropbears Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.11.28 15:43:00 - [85] Originally by: Jean Roden Why there are Alliance Tourment ships on the market?... is it a cruel joke of CCP.. to show +50k players that there are just 20 or less ships out there... and there are awesome I'd like to know if they'll vanish from the market list once the last of them has 'popped' - no point in listing them, if there are none in the game... --CN
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2010.12.07 08:31:00 - [86] rewards seem a little low but this is probably more an isk sink than anything else.
LordElfa Gallente Revan's Fist	Posted - 2010.12.13 18:17:00 - [87] Edited by: LordElfa on 13/12/2010 18:20:31 I participated in one of these a few days ago and peed a little. Null will get cleared for a return to business as usual, high sec will get cleared so mining and mission running can resume and low sec will not get cleared because of a lack of cooperation by all parties involved. Sounds like Eve to me.
Chruker	Posted - 2010.12.14 01:45:00 - [88] Originally by: LordElfa Edited by: LordElfa on 13/12/2010 18:20:31 I participated in one of these a few days ago and peed a little. Null will get cleared for a return to business as usual, high sec will get cleared so mining and mission running can resume and low sec will not get cleared because of a lack of cooperation by all parties involved. Sounds like Eve to me. Incursions havent been on sisi for 3+ weeks, so where did you play? :-) ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi
Quxon	Posted - 2010.12.14 13:45:00 - [89] Originally by: LordElfa ...high sec will get cleared so mining and mission running can resume... Perhaps. Since it looks like that mostly a specialized 40-50 man corp will be able to reap the biggest rewards out of Incursions. And the rest in that region, participating or not, will mostly experience drawbacks and risks and not much more. It's more then likely that over time High Sec'rs will simply jump region whenever an Incursion hits. Thinking: why bother risking for nothing but making it easier for some specialized corp that takes most of the rewards anyway? If that specialized corp takes most of the rewards they might as well do all the work for it as well. Thing is, while on Sisi everyone might be OK with joining fleets with total strangers and taking much bigger risks then usual, that certainly isn't the case on TQ. Somehow having 100 isk ships and podding is banable changes things. You think Hulkageddon would work on Sisi? Hence, taking Sisi user (team) experiences as justifiable input for what is suspected to happen on TQ wouldn't be my recommendation. With zill to nothing bounty, loot and salvage and the rewards greatly favouring those that are trained and specialized corps most High Sec'rs will learn to see Incursions as temporary cost and risk factors best left to the regional avoidance list. Easiest way for them to answer the ever lasting call for best isk per hour. Also, avoid Agents that might send you to such regions, just like Agents that might send you into Low Sec. Might be attractive for POS Griefers and Ninjas though. Summarization: Null = wallet dictates Low = KB dictates High = spreadsheet dictates
Douken	Posted - 2010.12.15 00:32:00 - [90] Dungeon? Boss Fight? wtf is this? WoW? Seriously...

Scorson Spanish Conquistadors CONQUISTADORS	Posted - 2010.12.15 09:42:00 - [91] Nice thoughts! I think that you shouldn't think about loot/salvage as reward because it will be very hard to extract, also I use to win about 20M isk per hour in lvl4 missions() so 25M for such a risk and so many time isn't appealing... The idea of LP instead of isk is a good one, specialy if it is Concord LP wich would be difficult to adquire and with that buy special items not avaliable otherway. Another thing i wish to say is that isn't so easy to form a 10 pilots fleet that all are expierienced with a lot of SP well placed.. if this is enjoyable only by veterans, we loose some potential here. Finally.. Dominix is better at active shield tanking, specially using faction booster, I use Kaikka X-L and get almost 900 points according EFT.. ()Tengu+/Maelstrom-
Logicycle	Posted - 2010.12.15 11:01:00 - [92] Originally by: Douken Dungeon? Boss Fight? wtf is this? WoW? Seriously... LoL
Joss56	Posted - 2010.12.15 12:31:00 - [93] Quote: AI seems a modified Sleeper AI, they don't just give aggro to 1 ship they seem more random, they will focus on 1 ship for 10-20 seconds then randomly spray damage across half the fleet then focus fire on a different ship (driving your logi pilots mad) This Excellent news, this give a chance for pve fit ships to handle with gankers with no other tactics than just ehp/firepower+logis, they must be very well prepared and ready to be the target of sanchas and be abble to deal with in the same time. An excellent challenge for brained and skilled pvp pilots and a chance to promote/encourage pve players to bring they're love boats. Hope it stays like, excellent job CCP thanks
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance	Posted - 2010.12.17 19:21:00 - [94] Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 17/12/2010 19:21:10 My general feedback about the fight against the Kundalani Manifest is, that it relies to much on having a big enough blob with enough logistics to kill the boss. The very old tank and spank in a new form. Personally I think it would be better to make tactics, or rather use of the environment more important. Examples could be: Weaken the Supercarriers tanking ability by luring it into an acid-cloud. Or weaken the target abilities by hacking into one of the structures in the same area. Anything else but: Bring a blob and bring even more logistics. Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
Kalle Demos Amarr Hysteria Nexus	Posted - 2010.12.17 19:24:00 - [95] I was in a Guardian with Grail Set It was a nice fleet fight, one thing I was hoping the NPCs todo the following. Neut Jam EW - All types of EW I would have preferred AoE damage as my drones freely managed to rep freely without any damage throughout the fight. Needs pod aggro too and AoE that requires pilots to move AoE EW too, otherwise it WILL be as simple as warp in, shoot and watch for target calling. Overall 7/10 but definitely needs more EW / AOE (assuming there wasnt any). Other than that, it was great! Originally by: Kool StoryBro <--- Originally by: CCP Spitfire Spam post removed. Random forum moments ftw
Fran Drescher	Posted - 2010.12.17 22:43:00 - [96] Were do i go and what kinda ship should i fit for tonight's test. Says this thread has details about tonight's test every were yet i see no details?
Chruker	Posted - 2010.12.17 22:58:00 - [97] Originally by: Fran Drescher Were do i go and what kinda ship should i fit for tonight's test. Says this thread has details about tonight's test every were yet i see no details? The test is already done. ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi
Silent Twilight Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.18 02:09:00 - [98] Why, oh why the ability to command all the drones in space to return/be scooped to drone bay/return and orbit was removed? Seriously, it makes changing drone groups very annoying. Guns can be switched on and off and reloaded in groups, so why can't drones? Moreover, changing gun ammo in a group takes two clicks and 10 seconds max, but to return drones that are far away you have to wait for them to fly all the way back, which is not a joke in case of Ogres. Removing of simultaneous return command increases the delay even more by the amount of time needed to execute commands to every single drone, which is quite a bit of clicks and dragging of mouse pointer across the screen back and forth. Simply put, let's not change drone control to Dronetary Interaction.
Samuel Caldara	Posted - 2010.12.18 17:22:00 - [99] Well, I'd love to be there but the link to download the mac patch for SiSi isn't working.... (hint hint)
Hiram Alexander Caldari	Posted - 2010.12.18 19:01:00 - [100] Originally by: Silent Twilight Why, oh why the ability to command all the drones in space to return/be scooped to drone bay/return and orbit was removed? Seriously, it makes changing drone groups very annoying. Guns can be switched on and off and reloaded in groups, so why can't drones? Moreover, changing gun ammo in a group takes two clicks and 10 seconds max, but to return drones that are far away you have to wait for them to fly all the way back, which is not a joke in case of Ogres. Removing of simultaneous return command increases the delay even more by the amount of time needed to execute commands to every single drone, which is quite a bit of clicks and dragging of mouse pointer across the screen back and forth. Simply put, let's not change drone control to Dronetary Interaction. They haven't been removed - unless I've completely misunderstood what you meant, in which case you have my apologies... Here's a screenshot of where the commands have been moved to. Normally, I use CTRL+SHFT+A,S, or D - depending on whether I want them to Attack, come back to the Safety of my drone bay, or return and orbit in a Defensive position 'til I'm sure about aggro... --HA

Derek Vanzant	Posted - 2010.12.19 15:21:00 - [101] FIX THE DAMN MAC CLIENT FOR SISI AND I WOULD TAKE PART IN YOUR TESTS!!!!!! (caps intentional)
Viktor Del'Grande	Posted - 2010.12.19 17:39:00 - [102] Subject: ("Nation Commander Outpost") ("Number of People to complete: 1") ("Moderate") * Your overall rating for this site ( 1 - crap, 10 - totally awesome)?: 4 * How long did it take?: 50-60 min * What reward do you think would be fair for this level of difficulty?: 30-40 Mio * What did you find good about this site?: Only 2-3 Neuters/Jammers * What did you find bad about this site?: Always scrammbled * Do you feel your group was coordinated?: yes .. i was alone ;) * How do you feel about the NPC behavior?: The NPCs acted like sleepers. They were not as dump as standard NPCs. * What ships did you have in your fleet?: Tengu (Maxed skills) * Were you using PvE or PvP fit ships to attempt/complete this site?: Wormhole Fitting. Tank: 600Dps Omni Tank / 400 Dps Damage * General Feedback (keep it short and sweet): If you stand still with only 4-5 frigs left, my tnk nearly broke. I needed to speedtank most of the missles. The "Niarja Myelen" were the keypoint to break. All frigs had a hard tank. Kinetic missles were the best compared to EM-Missles (probably because of the Tengu Bonus). Needed approximatly 20-24 Missles per Frig. Since i was nearly 1 hour scrambled and in K-Space 0.0 i dont think i would do it on TQ. Scrammbled by NPCs + Neuts/Reds => You are for sure doomned. System Difficulty was moderate. System: 8V-SJJ (Syndicate).
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2010.12.19 21:30:00 - [103] Noticing that all the sites have a ridiculously high damage output, don't let ships such as carriers or dreadnoughts that could handle such DPS in through the gates. I'm assuming that both of these issues are bugs and will be addressed soon. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Paridoth Trannyz Republic Alliance	Posted - 2010.12.20 00:42:00 - [104] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Noticing that all the sites have a ridiculously high damage output, don't let ships such as carriers or dreadnoughts that could handle such DPS in through the gates. I'm assuming that both of these issues are bugs and will be addressed soon. lol
Alexandra Pizdicea	Posted - 2010.12.20 00:50:00 - [105] i've read all posts so far, haven't tried the anomalies myself yet but it really seems its another waste of time and effort from ccp in curent form, as people won't risk it for puny rewards and under threat of surprise pvp while doing the sites ... i myself usualy run solo , either for pvp or pve and would love to get a shot at these things but , as i stated before, would be insanity to try it ... beeing scambled , jammed and taking an hour to break through ( asuming you use a super expensive all pve setup ) or just dieing in 2 minutes with a decent setup that could handle pvp too ..
Silent Twilight Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.20 02:10:00 - [106] Originally by: Hiram Alexander They haven't been removed - unless I've completely misunderstood what you meant, in which case you have my apologies... Here's a screenshot of where the commands have been moved to. Normally, I use CTRL+SHFT+A,S, or D - depending on whether I want them to Attack, come back to the Safety of my drone bay, or return and orbit in a Defensive position 'til I'm sure about aggro... --HA Many thanks for the tip. Didn't know about those shorcuts. I was used to right-clicking the group name/drones in space tab and then selecting an option, so when that disappeared I had no idea those options had beed relocated, not removed completely.
Zakru Anul Spectres of the Deep	Posted - 2010.12.20 03:28:00 - [107] òYour overall rating for this site ( 1 - crap, 10 - totally awesome)?: Was fun. nice 10 for the system they use and the good face off with npc targets. òHow long did it take?:1 hour with 40 poeple. òWhat reward do you think would be fair for this level of difficulty?:it was ok. could of been a tad more thou but i don;t know what you get from LP store yet. òWhat did you find good about this site?:Nice song. great lay out of things to look at other then space,stars and targets òWhat did you find bad about this site?:Accl gates = Bla òDo you feel your group was coordinated?:for a random mix of poeple on test. we did well. òHow do you feel about the NPC behavior?: as it should be. changing targets to support ships makes it much less dull and keeps you active. òWhat ships did you have in your fleet?: a mix of command, T3 and Golems and so . òWere you using PvE or PvP fit ships to attempt/complete this site?: sure most where PVE fit. òGeneral Feedback (keep it short and sweet): To stand up to this with any real chance you need a PVE fit. but this leads to issues with where they take place. all good you round up 35 members of your allainces to do this site, only to be forced in to hiding from the 50 man gank fleet that came in to kill you for the lawls. i would just give it some thought. Remeber. this is eve, the joy of your cookie is taking it from someone else.
Tortarga	Posted - 2010.12.20 10:01:00 - [108] Edited by: Tortarga on 20/12/2010 10:06:17 From running a few of the larger sites, as long as you bring enough logistics, you'll be fine. Agree that its tank and spank, just with rotational tank. Logis are going to get primaried most because of the RR, so they can be left to rep themselves, occasionally switching to the top damage dealer and no one else ever gets touched. Haven't tried taking in a Scorpion yet, they might be even bigger agro magnets and could work just as long as theres webs to stop the rats running away. I don't think the rewards for the lower tier sites are large enough to justify running them. For people only doing Incursion most of the income will be from meta 2 cap mods. This favours high sec mega corps which can regularly form large fleets to blitz the assault and headquarters sites for max LP or 0.0 alliances who get an incursion in their own backyard and can farm them without fear of intruders. Also these two entities would actually be able to complete the boss fight to cash in the LP. Incursions in low sec won't be run at all and smaller corps will be better off finding a nice wormhole or doing levels 4s instead of running vanguard sites and the occasional assault and then gambling that the incursion gets finished. The way Incursions are currently there will be an initial popularity as corps try out something new, but it won't be worth it for most and will most likely go the way of FW.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2010.12.20 10:15:00 - [109] Originally by: Paridoth Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Noticing that all the sites have a ridiculously high damage output, don't let ships such as carriers or dreadnoughts that could handle such DPS in through the gates. I'm assuming that both of these issues are bugs and will be addressed soon. lol What? ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Viktor Del'Grande	Posted - 2010.12.20 10:39:00 - [110] Edited by: Viktor Del''Grande on 20/12/2010 10:46:23 Originally by: Tortarga Edited by: Tortarga on 20/12/2010 10:06:17 From running a few of the larger sites, as long as you bring enough logistics, you'll be fine. Agree that its tank and spank, just with rotational tank. Logis are going to get primaried most because of the RR, so they can be left to rep themselves, occasionally switching to the top damage dealer and no one else ever gets touched. Haven't tried taking in a Scorpion yet, they might be even bigger agro magnets and could work just as long as theres webs to stop the rats running away. I don't think the rewards for the lower tier sites are large enough to justify running them. For people only doing Incursion most of the income will be from meta 2 cap mods. This favours high sec mega corps which can regularly form large fleets to blitz the assault and headquarters sites for max LP or 0.0 alliances who get an incursion in their own backyard and can farm them without fear of intruders. Also these two entities would actually be able to complete the boss fight to cash in the LP. Incursions in low sec won't be run at all and smaller corps will be better off finding a nice wormhole or doing levels 4s instead of running vanguard sites and the occasional assault and then gambling that the incursion gets finished. The way Incursions are currently there will be an initial popularity as corps try out something new, but it won't be worth it for most and will most likely go the way of FW. You got the point! Personally i think, that the highsec incursions will make a lot of people angry, because of the system effects, especially the reduced bounty and the reduced resists. If they hit the missionrunner constelations, prepare for the rise of threadnoughts ;) Question to CCP: Are you sure you want incursions in starter systems like Bournyes (Gallente starter system)? EDIT: Take in account that 75-80% of the Eve populations lives in highsec. There comes the most of CCPs income. If it hits these people to hard, it may have the effect as NGE had to SWG (if it turns out really bad). I dont hope so, i hope it will enrigh the experience of Empiredwellers, but i doubt so ...

Sigras	Posted - 2010.12.20 11:55:00 - [111] Where do i cash in the concord LP?
Tysliss	Posted - 2010.12.20 12:01:00 - [112] Edited by: Tysliss on 20/12/2010 12:01:32 Concord stations like normal LP. Bear in mind though that you only get the LP once the sansha boss SC has been defeated and the incursion completed.
Zetheral Paxton Industries -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.12.20 18:31:00 - [113] Originally by: Viktor Del'Grande Edited by: Viktor Del''Grande on 20/12/2010 10:46:23 Personally i think, that the highsec incursions will make a lot of people angry, because of the system effects, especially the reduced bounty and the reduced resists. If they hit the missionrunner constelations, prepare for the rise of threadnoughts ;) Question to CCP: Are you sure you want incursions in starter systems like Bournyes (Gallente starter system)? EDIT: Take in account that 75-80% of the Eve populations lives in highsec. There comes the most of CCPs income. If it hits these people to hard, it may have the effect as NGE had to SWG (if it turns out really bad). I dont hope so, i hope it will enrigh the experience of Empiredwellers, but i doubt so ... The Incursions are supposed to encourage group work by making it harder or impossible (or less profitable) to do anything else. If the carebears want their full bounties then they will have to group up and take out the Sansha or dock up and wait for them to leave. If the high sec dwellers cannot (or will not) group up to finish the site then that is their problem. The point of the Incursion is add dynamics to the game. Sansha invading high sec is a great addition and will make the game more enjoyable to play. If you are so worried about your wallet taking a hit because you are not able to run missions or mine for a a while then that not CCPs fault, thats your own. Also the high sec sites are easier and less intrusive then the null/low sec sites. So even carebears should be able to do them. Zeth I wish the cake wasnt a lie.....
Sigras	Posted - 2010.12.20 21:09:00 - [114] im doing high sec incursions, but I get the LP every time a beacon is done right?
Tortarga	Posted - 2010.12.20 23:54:00 - [115] Edited by: Tortarga on 21/12/2010 00:02:46 Edited by: Tortarga on 20/12/2010 23:55:13 Originally by: Zetheral The Incursions are supposed to encourage group work by making it harder or impossible (or less profitable) to do anything else. If the carebears want their full bounties then they will have to group up and take out the Sansha or dock up and wait for them to leave. If the high sec dwellers cannot (or will not) group up to finish the site then that is their problem. The point of the Incursion is add dynamics to the game. Sansha invading high sec is a great addition and will make the game more enjoyable to play. If you are so worried about your wallet taking a hit because you are not able to run missions or mine for a a while then that not CCPs fault, thats your own. Also the high sec sites are easier and less intrusive then the null/low sec sites. So even carebears should be able to do them. Zeth Players who don't know each other won't work together in RR fleets. Once a PUG fleet gets concorded for fireing on someone then repping a criminal everyone else will wise up. When an incursion hits high sec the vast majority will just move a couple of systems over and continue as per normal. Small corps that don't have a chance at defeating the boss won't spend any serious time on an incursion, so everyone will just wait for the large dedicated corps to mop up. Which I thinks perfectly fine if you're in such a mega corp.
Tedric Genco	Posted - 2010.12.21 00:38:00 - [116] I've spent 3 or so evenings on SISI and used the Scout, Assault and Headquarters sites. My gut feeling is that the difficulty vs reward is not sufficient. Considering a Tier 2 BS with a full set of TII fittings is about 100M, you would need to clear a couple of Scout or Vanguard sites without getting popped to make any isk. This is NOT as easy as it looks. Unless you have a Tier 2 or better BS you are likely to be sort of alpha-ed to death in the Assault and Headquarters levels. I say sort of, because it takes several seconds between 'i'm being hit' to everyone else locking you and RR or logistics repping you. this is the reason why 90% of people will loose their ship. Logistics can lock upto 10 ships, but a good portion of those will be other logistic ships, as they have the weakest tank, so you HAVE TO save quickly (first). Your fleet will be either shield or armor based, mixed tanks do not work, which is a real shame. Most fleets will be armor based, mostly because lasers do not require ammo. Shield based fleets will probably fare better because the basilisk can field 4 reps+1cap transfer, guardians are limited to 3 reps+1cap. Personally, i see armor tank fleets will become the norm. With the sites as they stand now, CCP is likely to get a small explosion in pettitions from people who 'were in their prized ship that got popped after 15 seconds'. Once that surge is over, as other people have said, people will leave the area until 'it blows over'. The only people to really get something out of these will be 0.0 alliances, who will develop a way to farm them. Why 0.0? because the have very high SP players with significant amounts of isks to play with. My gut feeling is that the damage dished out for Assault and Headquarter sites needs to be reduced by about 20% overall OR the Player Count vs payout Ratio needs to be tweaked up. i.e. increase the number of players by atleast 1/3, to allow for resonable payout. tedric.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2010.12.21 02:20:00 - [117] Originally by: Tedric My gut feeling is that the difficulty vs reward is not sufficient. Pretty much this. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Hazavwa	Posted - 2010.12.21 16:01:00 - [118] Originally by: Tedric Shield based fleets will probably fare better because the basilisk can field 4 reps+1cap transfer, guardians are limited to 3 reps+1cap. You sure about guardians having 3 reps and one cap....... Because last time i checked my guardian has 4 large reps and 2 large cap xfers :D
Tedric Genco	Posted - 2010.12.21 23:26:00 - [119] Originally by: Hazavwa Originally by: Tedric Shield based fleets will probably fare better because the basilisk can field 4 reps+1cap transfer, guardians are limited to 3 reps+1cap. You sure about guardians having 3 reps and one cap....... Because last time i checked my guardian has 4 large reps and 2 large cap xfers :D Hmmm. logs onto EVE, looks, comes back hmmm. your right, the guardian does have more available high slots, but to fit a forth TII large rep you have to find some CPU from somewhere, it is rather tight. tedric.
Sigras	Posted - 2010.12.22 06:56:00 - [120] everyone uses the 'solace' thats why theyre like 8 mil in jita

Pytria Le'Danness	Posted - 2010.12.22 09:06:00 - [121] I've flown both Guardians and Basiliks in these sites now and feel as if it does not matter which type of tank you use. Armor tanking might be a bit easier due to the higher EM resists on armor, but overall it felt rather similar. FYI, on both ship types I use a combo of 4x tank and 2x energy xfer to build up a cap chain with other logistics. An AB2 to lessen the incoming damage and as much tank as I can squeeze in makes up the rest of the fit. The lowest level incursion was easy to beat, but when we moved on to the next stage (probably too early since we got bored running the same mission over and over again) we got hit by a deadly combination of neuts, scrams, webs and ECM. We had four Basilisks on the field (later five) and lost three of them in a minute since the NPCs ECMed one, neuted the other and then primaried the logistics one after the other. I don't know the fits of the others but I had as much tank as I could with (I think) maxed skills. I started aligning as soon as the first Basi popped yet was unable to warp out in time. We had good coordination and I had at least one Basilisk supporting me but the NPCs broke through that regardless. I am not sure if we made a mistake or were simply unlucky (I think the biggest mistake was to move to a "silver" system too early) but the risk/reward ratio is still way off IMO. Another problem I have is that there are three missions that I've seen so far: the one where you have to hack a constantly jumping object, the one where you have to collect civilians ("Overwhelmed Civilian Facility) and one that requires some mining which is quite annyoing since mining ships & Sansha incursions do not mix well. Overall it was fun and interesting the first two or three times, but now it's boring (one reason why we moved to the "silver" system). At first I thought I'd go and look for a specialized corp dealing with incursions, but running the same mission over and over again doesn't appeal much to me. So... please add moar mission types.
Raysuli	Posted - 2010.12.23 15:02:00 - [122] (Distress Beacon) (1) (Easy) Rating 5 ~10 mins The 50k ISK feels about right, good for peeps who usually fly Lvl 2 Missions It's soloable in a assault frig, but really annoying because of the jammers. It doesn't force you to cooperate, but it would be a lot smoother with 2 or 3. But too easy for the 3-5 recommended people. (Hot knife and butter comes to mind). I soloed in a wolf, so yeah i was coordinated. The Jel Rhomben are too stupid, they orbited at around 12k, where they coulnd't really hit me anymore, but i had to overheat my web to get them. (or get a fed navy web...). But that's a solo issue again. One Wolf. PvE Fit. 200mm Guns, AB, Web. Very easy site, but a bit boring. For a solo pilot the jams are annoying as hell, which is a good thing, imo. If there was any other objective besides killing the rats, that would be nice. Protect the Orca for example...
AllY M You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2010.12.23 18:45:00 - [123] Subject: ("Override Transfer Array") ("9 Players") ("Moderate") Your overall rating for this site ?: 7 How long did it take?: 45~ Minutes What reward do you think would be fair for this level of difficulty?: Double the current ISK reward (30 Million ISK from 15 Million ISK per person) simply because of the now age-old argument that you could make more running level 4's in the relative safety of high security space than running incursions in lawless space. The risk vs reward rears it's ugly head again. A balance between a reward that is more profitable than the equivalent safe security activity but no so profitable as to make all similar activities obsolete. What did you find good about this site?: A good combination of sleeper AI (destroy enemy drones and switch targets often) and electronic warfare. What did you find bad about this site?: That the logistics tower moved 150~ KM away periodically. It doesn't make the complex harder it just makes it take longer. Do you feel your group was coordinated?: Yes, myself and a friend were on voice communications doing it together. How do you feel about the NPC behavior?: It's a fantastic improvement from say sanctums but little improvement on the sleeper AI. Will see if the AI is any different once we get around to the assaults. What ships did you have in your fleet?: 4 Machariels, 3 Guardians, 2 Rapiers (with 1 Gang-Boosting Loki and 1 Gang-Boosting Legion) Were you using PvE or PvP fit ships to attempt/complete this site?: The fits were specifically made with incursions in mind and utilised no warp disruption modules. Stasis webifiers and target painters were of course used on the rapiers (so PVE fit ships). General Feedback (keep it short and sweet): This site in particular was good fun the first time around, albeit a little easy for our fleet composition (no ship went below 80% armour). I doubt it would end up being fun after more than half a dozen completions. More variation in this site would be fantastic, say for example randomly throwing a extra triple battleship spawn at the logistics array when they are being hacked (make it random though so those who are running don't know if it'll happen the first time they hack it or the last time). Would love to see rewards boosted for Vanguards since they seem like the middle ground (i.e. the kind of content most people will be able to get to grips with) and more vanguard types added, i.e. five like the HQ sites have. Although there is still some time left to go until the TQ release so there may be more sites yet to be introduced.
AllY M You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2010.12.23 18:57:00 - [124] Subject: ("Nation Commander Outpost") ("9 Players") ("Moderate") Your overall rating for this site ( 1 - crap, 10 - totally awesome)?: 8 How long did it take?: 1 Hour 20 Minutes ish What reward do you think would be fair for this level of difficulty?: Again, double the current ISK reward would be a much preferable reward. The LP reward is good in my opinion. Not the huge amount you can receive from Faction Warfare missions but still good. What did you find good about this site?: The damage output was a lot more challenging than the other two vanguard sites. I had to focus a lot more of my attention on the logistics this time. What did you find bad about this site?: It took my quite a long time the first time to complete it but with subsequent tries or if a team with more players working together in unison were to attempt it then it would likely take a lot less time and be worth the reward offered. Do you feel your group was coordinated?: As well co-ordinated as a single man group can be How do you feel about the NPC behavior?: Same as before - challenging in the same way sleepers are. What ships did you have in your fleet?: 5 Machariels, 3 Guardians, 1 Rapier (with 1 Gang-Boosting Loki and 1 Gang-Boosting Legion) Were you using PvE or PvP fit ships to attempt/complete this site?: Again, PVE ships were used with incursion centred fittings. General Feedback (keep it short and sweet): Can't wait for assaults
Devedse	Posted - 2010.12.27 09:06:00 - [125] I have a few points to make, I did the incursion where we needed to hack a structure. (with about 20 people) 1. I didn't get attacked once in my ishtar. 2. It took more then an hour to complete but that was mostly because no one knew you had to hack the structure and their whole fleet was invulnerable, (so I suggest we get some signs like "hack the structure"). 3. Energy neutralizers don't help at all, I later switched to a megathron with 8 energy neutralizers and the rats still kept activating their MWD's (a cruiser) and their shield boosters. 4. I didn't get a payout but I'd say that in high sec the payouts should be at least 50 mil an hour for the moderate ones. I think it's going to be very hard to form a group for this. As most people know in 0.0 it takes ages to form up a fleet sometimes. For these incursions with inexperienced pve guys it will take even longer. I just don't think much people will PUG in this because there's a huge risk of loosing your ship because of the inexperience of the other players. Example: Logi dies -> everyone else is scrammed -> 10 man fleet whipes -> 1 billion in losses.
d3vo	Posted - 2010.12.27 23:08:00 - [126] So... I noticed frigs can jam at 150km away upon spawning? Also, in the journal there is a tab named "Global Report". Shouldn't it be "Universal Report" or something? nom nom nom
Fird	Posted - 2010.12.28 05:04:00 - [127] You can keep your incursions. It's a waste of time imo.
bartard frisky	Posted - 2010.12.31 08:28:00 - [128] Far far far too tough as it stands. Weaken them a teeny tiny bit, or make it more realistic (IE:Not infinite cap) Put an incursion fleet search thing in the fleet finder, and Local NPC back up (If it's in hi-sec, a good deal. Only a little in lo-sec, none in null maybe a little for sov, but thats over complicated) And i'll actively participate without fear of losing everything I own.
Arthainas Amarr Black Hand Templars The Veyr Collective	Posted - 2010.12.31 12:53:00 - [129] What I think is funny is the people who are complaining about incursion not being soloble. Ummmmm Duh? CCP said this was PVE content for fleets your not suppose to be able to solo it, so the diffculty they have to have has to be high to encourge people to work together to get though the sites.
Learaths	Posted - 2010.12.31 16:58:00 - [130] Can I convince CCP to drop an Incursion on Jita? Epic.

Mr morris Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.01 03:28:00 - [131] National Commander Outpost- completed with 2 (undisclosed) ships. Site rating 7.5. Time to kill all spawns- appox. 90 minutes. Significant npc behavior improvement, would still like to see them get smarter. Used one logi & one dmg, both with big active pve'ish tanks. Took a few days and many lost ships to get the right ships fit the right way. Like the new & improved sansha and hope they continue to get smarter. Vanguard sites are nice & good to learn with. Assault site completed with 4x guards & 8x expensive mostly faction dmg ships, crossfit pvp/pve. Site rating- 9 Everyone loved the experience. Logi pilots were strained to the max, just right imho & dmg dealers were always feeling like they could die at any second ( a few did). Best ever pve environment, can't wait to try the big boss with a proper fleet. Mr Morris is sold in game on boyout offer.
chaosjj	Posted - 2011.01.01 20:25:00 - [132] will 2 million sp's be rewarded to all participants?
xavier69 Gallente Stark Enterprises LLC	Posted - 2011.01.02 08:31:00 - [133] Edited by: xavier69 on 02/01/2011 08:33:43 Quote: The reward thief What does a reward thief do ? He gets a reward without having contributed anything to the fight. He will usually use a ship with a cloaking device, preferably a covops, so that you don't even see him warping in. He will sit cloaked on the grid and wait till a team cleans a site and completes it's task there. When the last ship is about to die, the reward thief will uncloak (in case the reward are not give to cloaked ships) and get a part of the reward, just for being there. What are you going to do against reward thieves CCP ? I guess they could give raid leaders only looting rights to avoid ninja looters and reward thieves i mean eve is not a pvp oriented game... we all like fluffy carebears and reach arounds from the devs and forbid anyone comming in and taking away our hard earned FUN maybe we can get mods next that come with us when we get podded ... ? i mean come on right one cally launcher is 300m We should be able to take that with Us right ? ROFL HAHAHA I LAF AT U CCP SEE what you have started CCP you have turned a hard core pvp game into spaceship WOW XOXOXOXO
Steo	Posted - 2011.01.02 14:11:00 - [134] Is there a guide up on what to do to get ready for this? I have the test client installed. Where do I go in the Eve universe to take part? Is there a channel I need to join for the test
Nicholi Onformaris Caldari Pilgrims of new Genesis C.H.A.L.I.C.E.	Posted - 2011.01.02 23:08:00 - [135] I'm not normally one to troll forums but this crap about how only the people involved with the kill are allowed to open the wreck is utter bull****. This game isn't WoW, customers are not suppose to be 7-9yr olds running around crying that someone stole their goods. This is EVE, its a cold hard universe, not the "happy gumdrop forest" that is WoW. I am a carebear with teeth and even I'm angry at this! Carebears need to cry, its how we loose weight! Let the trolling continue. Nemo Me Impune Lacessit!
Akira Katsurou	Posted - 2011.01.03 03:36:00 - [136] What system is the test incursion going to be in?
Jottunn	Posted - 2011.01.04 14:49:00 - [137] Not being able to cloak+lowsec/nullsec pvp consequences applied to incursion sites would be an idea to please some people.
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.01.04 20:34:00 - [138] Originally by: Mr morris National Commander Outpost- completed with 2 (undisclosed) ships. Site rating 7.5. Time to kill all spawns- appox. 90 minutes. Significant npc behavior improvement, would still like to see them get smarter. Used one logi & one dmg, both with big active pve'ish tanks. Took a few days and many lost ships to get the right ships fit the right way. Like the new & improved sansha and hope they continue to get smarter. Vanguard sites are nice & good to learn with. Assault site completed with 4x guards & 8x expensive mostly faction dmg ships, crossfit pvp/pve. Site rating- 9 Everyone loved the experience. Logi pilots were strained to the max, just right imho & dmg dealers were always feeling like they could die at any second ( a few did). Best ever pve environment, can't wait to try the big boss with a proper fleet. Mirroring this sentiment. The vanguard sites are very challenging for a fleet and takes some good player skills to complete with the logi pilots being the key to the whole shebang. Then we tried an assault site with the same group and got hammered. The only real hangup I can see coming in high sec incursions as the sites are just as hard is that there is going to be massive greifing using the rr gcc aggro mechanic to destroy logis left and right in public fleets with concord. This will pretty much leave any high sec sites to be run only by corps that can't get concord aggro for shooting fleet members. Dunno if this is a good thing or not tbh but I suppose to be fair it will encourge joining a corp over just staying in the noob corp or making a one man corp. Originally by: Nicholi Onformaris I'm not normally one to troll forums but this crap about how only the people involved with the kill are allowed to open the wreck is utter bull****. This game isn't WoW, customers are not suppose to be 7-9yr olds running around crying that someone stole their goods. This is EVE, its a cold hard universe, not the "happy gumdrop forest" that is WoW. I am a carebear with teeth and even I'm angry at this! Carebears need to cry, its how we loose weight! Let the trolling continue. There is no loot and the wrecks do not have any salvage. There is only the site completion rewards of isk and concord lp which is not even available to use until the entire incursion is completely defeated. So the only way to get the rewards is to be part of a group(don't have to be fleeted) that ran the majority of the site so you can't just uncloak to quickly shoot a rat or come in at the end with a larger gang and run off or destroy the competing gang then expect a portion of the rewards.
Santaa Klauss	Posted - 2011.01.04 22:15:00 - [139] after reading through this thread I have found a few points that stand out to me. -Risk/Isk factor is jacked up, rewards need to be greator -Sansha are immune to neuts -Accessability limited to few parties -Needs more randomization, its too repeatative -Needs to feel like pvp First thing that needs to be done is for the Sansha ships to act like player controled ships. This means for all the sansha ships are vulnerable to all forms of EWAR. Another factor that is, in my opinion, the greatest flaw so far is the risk/reward factor. With the incursions, if the reward is too little, it will feel like a chore to clean up a mess. No excitement or pioneering feeling that your hardwork will be repayed with treasure. I propose a system that will properly balance the risk/reward factor. 1. Greatly increase the Reward by a substatial amount. One that will make all players of eve droll over. 2. Greatly increase the difficulties of AI 3. Deploy penalties and scalings for the performance of the fleet. This includes -Rewards based on time completed, as well as the current factor of the number of people participating -Penalties for not completing, perhaps certain checkpionts (randomization factor) -Penalties in rewards for fleet members exploding. I feel that these changes will greaten the depth that Incursions will bring out. And reward skillful performences. While pushing people for great rewards.
Xylorn Hasher	Posted - 2011.01.07 14:36:00 - [140] Originally by: Scorson Nice thoughts! I think that you shouldn't think about loot/salvage as reward because it will be very hard to extract, also I use to win about 20M isk per hour in lvl4 missions() so 25M for such a risk and so many time isn't appealing... ()Tengu+/Maelstrom- I think you ( and many others too ) forgot that Incrusions aren't designed as new option to make ISK. Incrusions are designed to be a threat to players by locking down entire solar systems and be more like frontlines. They are more like "mandatory" to do than just a new option for quick ISK in my opinion. Perhaps we will all suffer when ( i hope ) trade hubs or our assets will be locked inside Incrusion system. For example Jita, Perimetter, New Caldari invaded in the same time will actually FORCE players to do something about that than complaining about ISK/hour amount.

Pytria Le'Danness	Posted - 2011.01.07 15:26:00 - [141] Comments on the last mass-test, roughly 80 players against a Sansha mothership boss. Although the incursion strength was very low (5% at most) the incoming damage was incredible. Again I took a logistics slot and had a Guardian with as much tank as I could cram in while still serving its original purpose. We paid special attention to the logistics (we had about 8 of them, mainly Guardians) yet despite all our effort lost a lot - myself I lost three. One was due to bad coordination, but the other two died almost instantly to something (I didn't check the killmails and SiSi is down atm). Especially the last loss was rather disconcerting as I was already receiving repairs and STILL died in one blow. One second I was at full armor, next I was in a pod. Lag might have been involved but lag wasn't much of an issue earlier. Another Guardian died while I had three (somewhat staggered) reppers on him. On TQ this would have been a catastrophe - Logistics do not grow on trees. The roughly 20M reward that was talked about does not halfway cover the losses this fight would have caused. I can live with ship deaths due to Logistics being neuted or jammed - this basically means that you should've brought more Logistics. But if a Logistic ship is being insta-killed even while receiving repairs I don't know a way to counter that. I've seen POS fights where the gunners tried their best to insta-kill attackers and failed due to superior Logistics, but aparently those Sansha easily surpass the damagr output a crewed death star can produce. And this raises the question: why should anyone risk their Logistic ship for an uncertain reward if the alternative (for instance high sec L4s) is much easier and safer?
Pytria Le'Danness	Posted - 2011.01.07 15:38:00 - [142] Originally by: Xylorn Hasher I think you ( and many others too ) forgot that Incrusions aren't designed as new option to make ISK. But EVE being as it is the ISK/hour is THE major measuring tool that will be applied onto the Incursions after the "Ohh, new and shiny!" effect wears off. If that holy number is lower than safer ISK faucets no one will use this feature, and all dev time will be wasted. Just look at faction warfare. It's a really nifty feature that could create a lot of opportunities, but since there is little money coming out of it only a miniscule part of the EVE population is actually using it - last I checked it were roughly 800 active pilots with around 40k pilots online. That's a mere 2% acceptance! EVE being as it is I guess most people will simply move to another system if an Incursion hits their money making constellation. It might work better if the disadvantages would affect traders as well, but right now only ratters and mission runners are affected (lower bounties, lower resists, lower damage). I was hoping for rising broker & manufacturing fees and/or taxes, as this would encourage traders to pay combat corps to clear the system they have all their stock in. This would have created some more interaction and increased the rewards for those who actually risk their ships, but CCP decided to just punish the ratters. Well, maybe it's a stealthy way to reduce the ISK influx into the economy.
Chakula	Posted - 2011.01.08 07:23:00 - [143] Well i didnt test it out. but what i can discern from all this, is that incursions are: -unfair -they suck up your expensive ammo -not meant for players under 5 to 10 mill SP. -yea EXTREMELY unfair. MY reaction: not a good approach to inviting more players into the eve universe. haters are gona hate, especially corps at war dishing it out when all of sudden: ALLLAAAARRRRMMMMMM RESISTANCES ON SHIPS DROP BY 50%. UH OHHHHH and yea, wtf am i reading? people getting ****d by 10 frigs? 10 players taking 2-5 minutes destroying a BS with upgraded sleeper tech? this sounds awesome in some ways, but seems like it will end up being a huge ISK vacuum and will lose popularity in 3-4 months.
EnslaverOfMinmatar Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2011.01.08 07:28:00 - [144] How much isk will CCP give to players for testing this stuff? uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
bgummer Gallente Malicious Destruction	Posted - 2011.01.08 14:55:00 - [145] Spent some time playing with incursions last night, had a small gang of 3 drakes 1 basilisk and eos with a shield tank (in the end we where really surprised how well the eos did) we set the drakes up with a large shield transporter and best active tank we could with named tech 1 hardware. had to use a few hardwires to get everything fit and stable. we had the eos setup with the siege warfare mods ( siege spec at 3 on test) 2 large shield transporters and a large energy transporter. with this setup we had no issue tanking all the damage, damage output was a touch on the low side as one drake pilot (me) is gallante spec and im flying a drake with bare min missile and shield skills. we did 6 nation commander outposts, only losses where 7 hobgoblins 2's. took us about 30 mins to do each site. if we where to field a full squad of 10 im guessing these sites wouldn't take more than about 10 mins and that would be over 100 mil every ten mins coming into the group. so i have to say as far as group combat for making money, this just may end up being a lot more of a faucet than you guys may think. solo the rewards aren't very good (granted your a total baller if your soloing vanguard sites lol) one last point, both the spider tank and eccm are worth there weight in robotics as these rats are some super high damage jam happy fools. more on the other sites when we learn how to farm them. Anything worth doing, is worth over doing.
Ja'Karrah	Posted - 2011.01.08 15:55:00 - [146] Edited by: Ja''Karrah on 08/01/2011 16:00:43 CCP keep up the good work. These sites should not be easy. Like another pilot posted Incursions should be mandatory for system upkeep or else too many Sansha will fill up gates and stations auto-piloting in High sec will be a no no. IMO they should have bounties so the people that want to clear the gates have rewards to keep the general public safe in the systems. That would somewhat solve the average new guy or solo pilots concerns for not being able to participate in the invasion. Im not sure if you receive higher concord standing/sec status for doing so but that would be nice. As for the ISK/per hour Its the dumbest complaint I ever heard... You want to make more ISK faster get a bigger fleet or go buy a more expensive fit for your PvE fits. In a 7 man fleet I can keep constant tank at 6.5k dps omni tank incoming and around 4.5k dps outgoing. these fits are available its just that you need to put some time and effort into this. I absolutely do not agree with Sansha having infinite cap and not properly using sensor strength to jamming strength. Also fitted ships solely for this purpose while speed tanking (Guardian/Basi) should not be 1 shot that is a little ridiculous. I thought you were going to make the rewards more for less people in a fleet and less rewards for fleet blobs please tell me why I wouldn't be able to log on alts have them join the fleet and receive the benefits of a site without un-docking from station or even going to the site on the last wave in a rookie ship and put some aggro on the final Sansha on site? BAM i just doubled my isk/hour?!?!? Did you guys all gripe and troll this hard when wormholes came out
bgummer Gallente Malicious Destruction	Posted - 2011.01.09 19:47:00 - [147] one thing we where wondering. after two nights of doing sites we noticed the corp didn't get a percentage of the isk payouts. is this intentional or a bug? really seems with as much of a group thing this is that the corp would get a percentage. anther issue already raised in this thread is non corp gang members accidentally shooting the logi (we used one logi and a spider tank setup) there needs to be someway for a group to get around this, perhaps no concord if your standings are set to +10, or perhaps and option in that situation where the logi pilot can tell concord that it was a mistake and not aggressive before they show and pwn everyone. in our testing last night we where able to concord the whole group with one shot due to the spider tank. with a way around this issue i can totally see some actual pugging going on in eve. Anything worth doing, is worth over doing.
caladoor	Posted - 2011.01.10 18:25:00 - [148] Didnt get to do a real site but there were a large group of NPC's spawned at the Read the rules beacon. It was nice to see how the new AI worked i lost several ships in short order and watched a few carriers go boom as well. I am really looking forward to the Incursion i am wondering why the Incursion rats can't have a small chance to drop True Sansha Loot?
Tomaso Yoshitome	Posted - 2011.01.11 16:30:00 - [149] I think these Incursion sites go a long way to redress the balance between the power of NPC's and capsuleers, i've long thought it ridiculous that a single capsuleer battleship can wipe out entire fleets of NPC's in level 4 missions or similar. To anyone complaining about losing their faction fit battleship to like 10 frigates, consider if you took that same battleship up against 5 or 6 player piloted succubus or similar, you'd likely get ****d. Having properly tough NPC's, where you have to use proper tactics in co-operation with others to prevail goes a long way to redress this balance.
Zelphinine	Posted - 2011.01.11 20:01:00 - [150] Friend and I tested some incursion sites and something that we noticed was that turret tracking seems to be off. For example I was using rails (optimal range 62 km, tracking 0.013) against a target painted cruiser orbiting at 60 with transversal of 0.005 and I was getting a lot of misses - probably 25-35% of the time. I don't use turrets a lot (mostly missiles and drones) but this certainly seemed off, and my friend flying a tachyon-fit Paladin who's gunnery spec also commented about how he was missing a lot. Likewise, the Sansha frigates orbiting at 10 km were regularly missing my stationary Dominix. While I can't complain about NPCs missing me, we came away with the distinct impression that there was something weird going on with the tracking calcs. Has anyone else seen this?

Ailers Roe	Posted - 2011.01.13 05:17:00 - [151] I have completed an Incursion site mish but can not send the eve mail...please help. When I address the eve mail to watcher poitot it says no contact...fun game but i would like my sp's...Thanks Roe
Kilwerkz	Posted - 2011.01.13 21:40:00 - [152] Running Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Intel Pentium D CPU 3.00GHz GeForce 7600 GT 4.0GB RAM FPS, all I know is it was slow... compared to TQ its a 5 No T3 graphic problems No Crashes No Disconnects The remap caused a blank screen No problems with the incursion feature. Over all the test seemed to work well...the jumps were good even with a warning that it would take 2m 30s to jump the jump took place much quicker. The voice commands worked very well. I had trouble locking a target the overview was too slow. The overall experience was awesome to watch. The only thing that would make it better was a better ship and better skills... Thanks for the experience. I recommend that all Eve Players have a go at the test server...and get involved with a CCP test.. I learned some valuable lessons..
Soldarius Caldari Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.01.30 08:30:00 - [153] Little more up-to-date feedback: Ran 6 of the Scout-level sites solo in an active-tanked Rocket Hawk. At least one of each, all completed. Found them all to be of moderate difficulty for a solo short-range AF. [list] I would give all these sites a high rating. Once I had what I felt to be an optimal fit, time required took about 10-15 minutes. Cash reward is pitiful and completely insufficient. I actually lost money due to the repairs required after overheating my T2 webifier. Darn MWD frigates orbit at 12km. Put the standard bounties on the ships and it would be much better. 50 LP is also crap. Although with a fleet of 5 these sites would go much faster and the LP rewards would pile up faster as well. So I can live with that. The number of ships and their capabilities are challenging for a solo AF, but not OP. I enjoyed the challenge and am thrilled to find a use for my AF. There is no reason to do these site, other than to remove the Sansha presence so as to get back to making isk with other activities. CCP, you've busted out the stick. Give me a carrot! As I was solo, there was no coordination issues. NPC behavior was very close to that of players. They demonstrated tactics appropriate to the weapons and capabilities of their ships. 1 ea active-tanked Rocket Hawk, initially with a shield boost amp. But later removed the amp and replaced it with a T2 webifier, which I frequently overheated for the extra range. Definitely a PvP fit. I honestly don't think a buffer fit Hawk would have survived any of these sites. Those dps frigates can hit very hard (about 25% of total shield) when they get a low transversal. Comments: Reports of severe and all encompassing EWAR NPC pwnage in these sites are not supported by my experience. Certain ships had ECM and neut, just like a player ship. Others were dps and speed-tanked. Some were tacklers with webs. None of them attempted to warp scramble or disrupt. Proper fit, target selection, and tactics all go a long way towards being successful in Incursion sites. While I was able to eventually run down and kill the MWD dps frigates (they would sometimes cap out by using their MWD too much) without a web in favor of more tank (shield boost amp), a webifier was a big help. I used my spare utility high for a small Nos. This was easily the most important single module on my ship, as my capacitor had this gut-wrenching tendency to run out in about 20 seconds under full load and neuting. Sadly, with only 4 mids and little fitting resources to spare, I could not fit a cap booster. I found these easy sites to be a good challenge for a single AF pilot. Multiple pilots would simply rip these sites apart. I will have to try some of the Vanguard sites next time to get a better feel for the jump in difficulty before giving my opinion on the difficulty spread/slope/curve. Originally by: CCP Shadow ...I cannot guarantee (my) sobriety or decency.


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