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Archbishop
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Posted - 2005.01.04 04:11:00 -
[1]
Suicide attacks in 1.0 space in a case like this are obviously griefing plain and simple. This "hehehe just getting kicks" garbage sounds like some pimply immature loser getting his jollies. As I recall the "LopTop" person mentioned in the first post was also the loser who *****ed about the Tsunami victims and hoped they were in game so he could pod them. A real waste of oxygen.
I hate to suggest TomB wave his infamous nerf bat around again but in this case these griefers will force it. This is the same thing that has happened OVER AND OVER AGAIN in Eve. A system is in place for combat and some idiot comes along and exploits it somehow or finds a way around it and will in the end force CCP to do another nerf. Going all the way back to the original pirates like Setec being nerfed out of Empire we see the behavior of a few losers forcing CCP to make changes. I'm sure the "carebears whining" accusation will be made but in all honesty complaints here are COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED. This is just pathetic griefing behavior and nothing more.
Apparently these losers also have no trouble losing Kestrels to Concord. They brag about being able to create a new character with Kestrel skills at origin. So basically everyday they can go out and grief 4-5 people then just terminate their alt at bedtime, wakeup in the morning get out of their jammies and create another griefer alt, clearly pathetic.
CCP I'd encourage you to make an example of these idiots and just ban them. You've danced around the issue of griefing long enough. You've done NOTHING to get the word out that this type of behavior has consequences. The line between griefing and just doing PvP is pretty clear. It's kind of like obscenity in some ways the way a US Supreme Court justice once described it (sorry I forget which one). He said he couldn't describe it but he knows it when he sees it. Well this is a case like that. I know griefing when I see it and this is it. Make an example of these misfits and clear the air.
Archbishop
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Posted - 2005.01.04 19:20:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
Is it just me, or in most of the cases, isn't it just alts attacking alts?
Not exactly. It's brand new griefer alts destroying experienced high skillpoint player miners. You can't just create a character and fly a mining barge in a day.... a week.... a month. Some of these may be "alts" of other players but they are professional mining characters.
Archbishop 
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Posted - 2005.01.04 19:27:00 -
[3]
I'd encourage people to protest these griefers "first hand". Posting on the forums is one thing. Taking the complaint to CCP's doorstep is quite another.
Compose a complaint letter and mail it to CCP.
CCP hf.
Klapparstigur 28
101 Reykjavik
Iceland
Better yet call them or fax it to them.
Tel: +354 511 4999
Fax: +354 511 4998
Griefing is griefing plain and simple. Look at the way these "people" are abusing others in the game for the sole purpose of riling up the community. Rather then just ganking miners with suicide ships they're bragging about it to inflame public opinion. Just like I posted on Page 2 this is the type of behavior that has appeared TIME AND TIME AGAIN in Eve. The behavior of a few immature players that leads to some nerf coming down on all of us. Time and time again we have seen this.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!
Complain directly to CCP. Don't file a petition, don't complain on the forums, send them a letter, send them a fax, call them, take REAL action. You all pay good money for this game I know I do. I want to have fun.
GRIEFING RUINS GAMES!!!!!
These people need to be banned. I could care less if I ever find out about who they "really are". I just want them gone. They're bad for the game.
Who is their next target? Maybe they'll startup on newbie industrial ships in 1.0 systems next? Their ranks seem to be growing it sounds like all the griefer minded people are joining them. BAN THEM ALL. We do not need their kind of player in this game.
CCP will ignore this until it becomes critical then go overboard with some nerf that affects all PvP not just suicide alts. Don't let them do this. YOU are their customer. DEMAND satisfaction.
I'm faxing my letter today and I'll paste it below. I'd suggest anyone else sending a letter does the same. We can unite against the griefers and take it straight to CCP's doors. Screw the GM's handling this. Go straight to the owners of the company. It's their bottom line.
By the way if anyone is wondering. I've done this once before..... CCP responded nearly immediately.
Archbishop
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Posted - 2005.01.04 19:54:00 -
[4]
This is no different then people like Molly and Tank CEO when they sat in 1.0 space and podded new players do to a glitch in game mechanics. Its no different then Zombie and the Yulai incident.
Its griefing plain and simple. Theres no reason for it. They do it just to rile people up, get a cheap thrill and hurt people.
I agree with Discorporation that CCP will never do away with alts anonymity. What they can do though is lay down the law that ALT GRIEFING IS NOT TOLERATED. Make an example of these people. Ban them. Put out the word that THIS IS NOT TOLERATED. CCP has danced around the issue of griefing long enough.
Archbishop
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Posted - 2005.01.04 20:16:00 -
[5]
I've finished my complaint letter. It'll be faxed in shortly.
Lead Developer
CCP hf.
Klapparstigur 28
101 Reykjavik
Iceland
Mr. Hardarson,
I'm writing today to share my concern with a particular element of the Eve Online gaming community. This community is very small in total size yet has the ability to inflict a large amount of damage to the gaming population. This community is the "griefer".
Griefing in MMOG's is nothing new. Most games have seen scattered incidents of a certain group of players intentionally going out of their way to ruin the gameplay experience of others. I do not believe it is up to 25% of the gaming population as a recent mainstream magazine article said but closer to 2-3% of the population.
I'm not sure if you keep daily track of the Eve-Online forums. I'd imagine not as I'm sure your very busy. Recently a group of players appeared who are in the view of many exploiting a "glitch" in game mechanics. These players are using alt-character "griefer" characters to destroy mining barges and other ships in .9 and 1.0 empire space. As it is possible to create these characters "Kestrel-Qualified" at creation they can literally create new characters each day, spend the day destroying other players and being killed by Concord, then at night simply click 'Terminate' and in the morning do it all again.
These people have gone as far as to post in this thread about thier actions:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139627
The community of Eve has responded overwhelmingly against the actions of these people. It is viewed overwhelmingly as simply griefing behavior.
Eve is a PvP game. I enjoy the combat aspect of it and wholeheartedly favor allowing it to continue to be a focus in the game. Still these type of players serve no purpose other then to intentionally "hurt" other players. They are bad for the game and bad for business. There is just no reason to allow it to continue.
I would like to see CCP take action once and for all on griefing. Lay down the law and state "this type of behavior will not be tolerated". To long the line has been blurred and as we've seen the more immature among us will attempt to find that line and cross it to see how much they can get away with. We've seen time and time again these players act in such viscious ways that CCP has in the end had to come down with game "nerfs" to fix what should've been very small problems initially.
I've played Eve since beta and currently have multiple accounts. It's an incredible game and as someone who has always loved the space genre its the game I've always waited for. I left the game for a time earlier last year and returned. I spend between 10-20 hours a week playing Eve when I'm not working running my medical auditing company. I spend alot of time at home as I'm suffering from health issues. When your unable to get out alot its an incredible outlet and I'm grateful for it. It pains me to see a very small group of players make it less of an experience.
Thank you,
XXXXX NAME DELETED XXXXXXX
Ingame name: Archbishop, PIE Corporation
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Posted - 2005.01.05 03:13:00 -
[6]
Quote:
"More and more as I read this thread I see legitimate concerns about alts and low-risk gankings derailed by every carebear moron with an agenda. While I am not particularly happy with what theyve done, theyve broken no rules and done nothing outside what the game mechanics allow. My concern is simply for the overreaction CCP will obviously have when faced with such collective whining."
Your right and wrong RollinDutchMaster. Like I've said time and time again these few griefers will force CCP to make big changes. I'm surprised you blame the carebears yet again like I see you do in every thread. Why don't you try blaming the people responsible for once? The griefers who do this garbage?
Time and time again we've seen them pull stunts like this and cause a big outcry. Time and time again we've seen it get so bad that TomB comes running with the nerf bat. Yet you blame the people complaining while in the same breath say its a real concern? Which is it? What way would you have people speak out to force change? Maybe another of my protest videos this time on griefers? You need to blame the people who started this. The griefers.
Quote:
"Stop playing the victim and use the tools and experience you have and set a trap for these guys and take some pleasure on dealing some justice."
What trap Ceti? They fire from a bunch of Kestrels the ship is dead in the first wave. They're like pathetic losers using alts so we don't know who they really are. I'd love to find out who they are and go after them I'm sure most of Eve would. But they're just cowardly griefers hiding behind a new alt a day ganking miners. This isn't "PvP" at all its griefing and CCP needs to put a stop to it. I hope they enjoy my faxed letter it'll be sitting on their machine when they walk into their office in a couple hours.
Quote:
"More armor on ships means this simple-minded"
Yes and according to Discorporation they're going to increase the HP on the Mining Barges. I notice it didn't take long for these social misfits to realize "hey we can gank everyone til they fix this".
I've said in the past I believe a persons real character shows thru even in a game. While I may roleplay a religious fanatic Amarrian (in reality Im a moderate liberal) there are still some core morals I have. I wont purposely go out of my way to hurt anyone for the sake of hurting them. I won't just do something completely unethical just because I can. I won't look for ways to exploit problems in game mechanics just to be a complete jerk. I would NEVER grief someone. Now we see these Barge Killers here. Clearly they have no such morals. I mean they have to know how they're affecting people yet they do it anyway. I'd challenge anyone to explain how anyone with a conscious can knowingly go out of their way just to hurt people game or not. Point is they can't. These are dysfunctional people who are out only to hurt people and exploit a deficency in game mechanics. They've contributed NOTHING to the good of the game or its content. They need to be banned.
Archbishop
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Posted - 2005.01.05 03:25:00 -
[7]
Quote:
"Amazingly these guys do have mains, and aren't complete nubs (altho I'm re-evaluating that atm after seing what they are doing)."
Exactly Negotiator. I'm sure they have plenty of isk and have endless Kestrels in stock. I'm also sure they're experienced enough to know what they're doing and how to figure out HP on a ship and design tactics. They've said they know how to create a kestrel-qualified pilot at creation so no skill training time is required.
So I'd like to learn who their mains are. I'd like to see them pay for their crimes. Right now they have no consequences other then Concord ganking their suicide ships daily. Each day they can make a new alt and do it all over again. They've admitted how they do it.
They bring nothing to the game but grief and misery then they brag about how they're hurting people in the forums here. They contribute NOTHING to Eve or its storyline. They're dysfunctional NOTHINGS. They need to be banned.
Archbishop
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Posted - 2005.01.06 02:46:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Archbishop on 06/01/2005 02:47:20
Quote:
"As Discorporation I believe CCP is counting on the HP-increase to fix this. But I agree with many others here that the more appropriate response would be some kind of punishment possibly involving banning to deter people from just moving on to other exploits."
Agreed. Make an example out of them by banning them PUBLICALLY to put the word out that griefing isn't tolerated. That way the next time one of these immature griefers says "hey lets do this" to his equally immature buddy the buddy might say "well hey remember when they BANNED so and so???". Deterence.
Quote:
"Er yes they do, he asking that they remove the 'Make alt, kill stuff, delete alt, rinse and repeat' He's asking that there be consequences for these alts actions, which there currently aren't. Did we loose you somewhere along the way?"
Stront3h is exactly right. There are no real consequences here other then the cost of a Kestrel and not even that if they're buying insurance each time. This is pure griefing plain and simple.
Quote:
"CONCORD can only intervene after the aggression happens (and typically WTFPWNS you 0.00000001 seconds after that). The only way to stop this situation is to boost barge HP or either nerf rockets and light missiles or the ability to make a character that can fly a kessie with rockets and no training time."
Agreed theRaptor from the sounds of this they're killing these barges in one salvo of missiles from several Kestrels. By the time Concord ganks them the missiles are already on their way or have already destroyed the victim.
Quote:
"GM Arkanon posted: But, while attacking another player is not forbidden anywhere in EVE, excessive use of disposable alts (as judged by a GM), the use of exploits or the abuse of trial accounts to grief players for your own profit without risk of retribution will not be tolerated."
GM Arkanon 
Quote:
"Finally, Gamemasters 4 w1n! Have these people been banned as well?
Youre prolly not allowed to tell but it would be nice to know..."
I'm sure we wont know if they were banned. But GM Arkanon has just layed down the law and stated excessive alt use IS GRIEFING and will NOT BE TOLERATED. I am very happy!!!!!
Quote:
"How do we even know that Ryctor and whoever else was involved didn't have a reason to target those that got shot ?
Maybe it was a vendetta and he decided to use alts to get around the sec rating loss part. It's quite lame of course, but you can't call it griefing without knowing why he/others did it..?"
By coming here and bragging about it on the forums its clear they were griefing. Look at their posts. Does this look like a Vendetta? Maybe it was. A Vendetta on responsible game play in Eve. 
Quote:
"They are simply attacking someone in empire. They accept the risks, as they all get blown up by concord. It is within game mechanics."
What risks? A cheap alt and a cheap ship they can recycle the next day? That isn't risk. Real risk would be using thier REAL CHARACTERS to do this not some "alt a day" substitute designed for one thing... griefing.
Quote:
"I fail to see the issue here. My understanding is that as long as the kestrels get destroyed by concord the GM's don't see it as griefing."
Tenaj as GM Arkanon said on an earlier page excessive use of alts for this is griefing and will not be tolerated. The law has been laid down.
Archbishop 
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Posted - 2005.01.06 13:35:00 -
[9]
Quote:
"Under no circumstances is using ho's for killing anything else than griefing and abuse of trial and/or character system by recycling. Under all circumstances, all accounts traced to this account will be banned, usually without warning."
Nice one boss way to go!!!!!
Now perhaps we'll see the idiot lame griefers say to themselves "ah... we better not do this.... remember when they banned so and so.....".
DETERENCE.
As for these "griefers" I've noticed it is very quiet around here. CCP won't tell us but I think its safe to assume they were either put on strict probation with a very short leash or just shown the door and the dev's boot.
Either way I'm happy.
As for the "main" from A.N.U.S. corp who is apparently using a Caracal to blast barges (and losing them frequently) at least he's in a corp that can be declared war on and not using an alt although training Caracal isn't that hard so I assume it is an alt. Either way he's warning people and not griefing at least. I assume Concord is ganking his Caracals too?
Archbishop
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