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FIRST GENERAL
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
180
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 18:49:00 -
[31] - Quote
Xuixien you're not constructive at all and hiding your metagaming attemps under a veil of personal attacks is a feeble attempt at discrediting the points that are made in this thread just because you personally don't like capitals.
Also we already have spies in all of the major minmatar corps - we have had them in place for some time, deal with it. |

Xuixien
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
83
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 18:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
FIRST GENERAL wrote:Xuixien you're not constructive at all and hiding your metagaming attemps under a veil of personal attacks is a feeble attempt at discrediting the points that are made in this thread just because you personally don't like capitals.
Also we already have spies in all of the major minmatar corps - we have had them in place for some time, deal with it.
You can tell he's a MAN because his name is in CAPS. Rabble Rabble!! |

Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Republic University Minmatar Republic
108
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 18:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
Yes, disarm yourselves of capitals so the local pirates can steamroll you even more often. |

Maglor Shaye
Alekhine's Gun Drunk 'n' Disorderly
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 18:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
At the risk of horribly deviating from topic, but for reasons it would not be polite to get into I feel the need to ask. Xuixien, how old are you? |

Xuixien
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
83
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:Yes, disarm yourselves of capitals so the local pirates can steamroll you even more often.
Why wouldn't the restrictions to capitals in FW space not apply to pirates in FW space? Rabble Rabble!! |

Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
91
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
Caps can be fun, I see no problem with them being deployed even frequently in FW. I am one of those people who flies everything from Merlins to T3s and Caps. To have my ship choice limited because I am in FW is silly. Plexes do that quite well already. If I want to fight frigs and dessies, I go into a minor plex.
Cynojammers would be a fun mechanic to use in FW, but it will probably never happen. CCP loves the null bears too much. Is sexy time? |

Maglor Shaye
Alekhine's Gun Drunk 'n' Disorderly
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:14:00 -
[37] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:Yes, disarm yourselves of capitals so the local pirates can steamroll you even more often. Why wouldn't the restrictions to capitals in FW space not apply to pirates in FW space?
I agree with you Nexxala, but what is being advocated in this thread is having everyone's ship choice limited because you are in faction warfare, which is certainly outside the bounds of the consequences of joining militia hinted at earlier as a rationale for the restrictions. |

Amymuffmuff
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:21:00 -
[38] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Hey guys, my name is FIRST GENERAL, all in caps because not only am I a GENERAL, but I'm the FIRST general. I'm THE MAN.
I know your on my side and everything but please grow up. We are meant to be the "better" side and this hardly makes us seem that way.
Plus. How dares you attempt to take my shiny triage away from me! I love getting my pilots capitals blown up and throwing them into battle with lots of glorious glee. Plus im very lazy so it means i don't have to move until i want to. 
<3 Capital one. Props for this post.
I appreciate that we don't want cap fights becoming the only thing but it would never be that way anyway. You don't have to engage if you don't want to. I personally think it should stay as they are useful to all sides.
Plus. I do like the idea of a temporary cyno jammer, if any are to be used, that has to be destroyed by the hostiles before they can jump there own items there. Iron Oxide. 2IC & Diplomat Minmatar Milita KB & TS Lead Admin Queen of the Channel Operators Amarr Surplus Equipment Manager-á |

FIRST GENERAL
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
180
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
Why should there be caps in FW:
- Eve is a sandbox and people need to be able to fly whatever they please - Plexes already restrict shiptypes and favor combat for different shiptypes and shipclasses thus making 'entry-level' pvp happen - FW happens in low-sec : why should FW people, who have to fight non-FW entities on a consistent basis have their wings clipped and be prevented from using capitals in fights against those entities? - A great many FW capital pilots hugely enjoy the capital fights regardless of the fact whether its Dread slugfests or Triage finesse
Should people think that caps don't belong into FW, which by the way happens nearly exclusively in lowsec, then it would be silly to allow them into lowsec at all and then you'd need to man up and ban capitals/supers from lowsec entirely. Or why would you put arbitrary restrictions on people who chose to be aligned with a certain empire faction and have them fight Gunfights with sticks ands stones and on the other hand not put those same restrictions on any people living in lowsec? |

Amymuffmuff
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
16
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Capitol One wrote:Xuixien wrote:Hey guys, my name is FIRST GENERAL, all in caps because not only am I a GENERAL, but I'm the FIRST general. I'm THE MAN. I'm not ISD, but please stay on topic. The less insults and more content we provide the better :) But FIRST GENERAL really likes his caps!
Get over it. Its his name.
So what? Iron Oxide. 2IC & Diplomat Minmatar Milita KB & TS Lead Admin Queen of the Channel Operators Amarr Surplus Equipment Manager-á |

Ya Nor
Alekhine's Gun Drunk 'n' Disorderly
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:33:00 -
[41] - Quote
What's wrong with keeping things they way they've always been? We drop caps, they drop caps, suddenly some outside entity drops supers, we all die... rinse and repeat. Capital pilots know the risks, and are willing to take them. If you don't want to, then don't.
Cyno jammers, low-sec bubbles (srsly, wtf?) or w/e else, its all filler and mundane. There are more important things to fix, and, to be perfectly honest, until the actual Capital pilots start complaining, stfu. |

Maglor Shaye
Alekhine's Gun Drunk 'n' Disorderly
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:37:00 -
[42] - Quote
FIRST GENERAL wrote:why would you put arbitrary restrictions on people who chose to be aligned with a certain empire faction and have them fight Gunfights with sticks ands stones and on the other hand not put those same restrictions on any people living in lowsec? I wouldn't, however if we take on faith the assertion that the goal of those advocating the "wing-clipping" is a more level playing field between the better resourced and newer players. Capitals are easily attainable to many corps across all four militias, supercapitals less so, and are seldom deployed. Titans are the major force multipliers in the bracket that cannot neccessarily be reached by all militas at this point. Militia pilots are already restricted in opposing hisec, in docking rights in the stations of the opposing powers. Perhaps it would be helpful to offer carrot instead of stick, and offer greater flexibility in deployment within ones own space. Perhaps a jump bridge system contingent on maintaining a particular system tier. Would both render titans less cost effective, and provide a strategic motivation to plex devensively. |

Mystical Might
Alekhine's Gun Drunk 'n' Disorderly
114
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:48:00 -
[43] - Quote
Capitals are hardly overpowered, and can be easily countered with either your own capital fleet, or a strong subcapital force. |

Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
357
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:55:00 -
[44] - Quote
Mystical Might wrote:Capitals are hardly overpowered, and can be easily countered with either your own capital fleet, or a strong subcapital force.
Capitals aren't the problem. Supercapitals are. Really the only thing that beats supercapitals are more supercapitals at this juncture, and its hard for any kind of FW entity (despite all being famously rich now) to compete with the #s and organization of 0.0 entities that can bring in a supercapital fleet from anywhere in EVE in a very short time frame. Sa souvraya niende misain ye. |

Mutnin
SQUIDS.
272
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 20:24:00 -
[45] - Quote
Capitol One wrote:Xuixien wrote:Capitol One wrote:Your "consequence" would have my rather fly stabbed merlins and rifters instead of expensive ships engaging in interesting combat that brings a lot of players in FW together in one big brawl.
But I guess you're so used to your rifters you can't comprehend anything beyond them. You've presented a false dichotomy my friend. We have more choices than "YAY CAPITAL BLOB" and "Frigate Fleet". There's a whole range of possibilities in-between. I fly Firetails and the occasional Wolf. I'm in the process of training up Hybrid Turrets so I can start flying Merlins and perhaps Harpies, although I am excited to start training my missile skills once I get Turret Control: Elite. Fair point, I might've been overly eager in my reply. However my point still stands, limiting FW to only subcaps is just a terrible handicap. I mean we live in lowsec for crying out loud, this isn't RvB. What am I supposed to do when I see a pirate cap fleet deploy in my surrounding area? Go whine on the forums about it or actually get to drop a few dreads and Faction BS with Triage support on them and show'em who's boss! To summarize: FW is many things. It's frigate combat and elusive 1v1 battles ranging to cruiser and bc brawls inside plexes to the bigger BS fights with caps when things get more serious. Don't force FW pilots to become handicapped because "hotdrop is bad", there are ways around the hotdrop and even still, you're flying in lowsec ... the hotdrop is always a threat, be it from FW corps, Pirate corps or nullsec groups.
FW has always been one of the few places people could get a reasonable chance of daily small gang PVP. It has always been intended as a place for newer players and smaller/newer corps to get a start and never was intended to be a place for large corps to sit in idly forever because they don't want to take any risk in the outside world.
I'm not for dumbing down the game, but things like Titians and large capitol fleets were never intended for FW. Groups like yourself & Sotf that have the ability to titian bridge at will and drop large capitol supported gangs are bad for the basic concept that is FW.
FW has always been about younger groups & players & giving them a place to grow. It was never intended place for some 30 year old virgin to try and get a date.. |

Crimper
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 20:27:00 -
[46] - Quote
Lowsec pirates will have caps, and nullsec junkies can jump in caps. Where is the logic that would restrict FW players from using caps?
The primary reason I enjoy FW is the
- diversity of the play styles (1v1 or small gang warfare or multifaceted cap fights)
- the varying ship types I can use (from T1 frigs to caps and supercaps)
I can still kill whatever else crosses my path in low sec including other caps and they can kill mine. There are a great many non-cap flying pilots, or new pilots to the game that are in FW but caps will not impact their ability to orbit a beacon, but restricting our ability to field caps, would significantly impact our ability to agress and defend against pirates.
Vordak Kallager wrote:Mystical Might wrote:Capitals are hardly overpowered, and can be easily countered with either your own capital fleet, or a strong subcapital force. Capitals aren't the problem. Supercapitals are. Really the only thing that beats supercapitals are more supercapitals at this juncture, and its hard for any kind of FW entity (despite all being famously rich now) to compete with the #s and organization of 0.0 entities that can bring in a supercapital fleet from anywhere in EVE in a very short time frame.
A huge part of any successful op, is the quality of the intel. With respect to cap fights, while supercaps could be lurking one jump away or 5 jumps away or maybe not formed up at at all, having the knowledge when going into a fight will aid in your decision for your fleet comp or or at least lets you know when to gtfo. It could be considered a bonus escalation by some, or a hindrance to the unprepared. Besides, it's always afun to see what you can do to counter another challenging fleet, isn't it? Either way, it provides us with one more style of fighting. |

Crimper
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 20:33:00 -
[47] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:FW has always been one of the few places people could get a reasonable chance of daily small gang PVP. It has always been intended as a place for newer players and smaller/newer corps to get a start and never was intended to be a place for large corps to sit in idly forever because they don't want to take any risk.
I'm not for dumbing down the game, but things like Titians and large capitol fleets were never intended for FW. Groups like yourself & Sotf that have the ability to titian bridge at will are bad for the basic concept that is FW.
I'm sure your statement about taking risks was merely a poor attempt at a troll, however if not, you clearly have no clue because what you seem to missing Mutnin, is the fact that FW is only a part of what we do. It affords us another play-style and allows us to diversify. |

Xuixien
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
83
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 20:40:00 -
[48] - Quote
Why can't we use capitals in HiSec?
I mean, "sandbox", right? Rabble Rabble!! |
|

ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
58

|
Posted - 2012.08.02 20:42:00 -
[49] - Quote
Thread has been cleaned of off topic and troll posts. Please stick to the actual topic of discussion and post responsibly, thank you.
Removed troll and off topic posts - ISD Type40. ISD Type40 Ensign Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|

Amymuffmuff
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
20
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 20:51:00 -
[50] - Quote
My post was classed as trolling?
I was very much on topic tyvm.
Guess i will have to repeat myself.
I think that caps should stay available in the warzone as they are a key part of all the available combat ships that can be used in space. I do like the ability to mix it up with a triage if your out numbered by the hostiles for example.
There are plenty of opportunities to remove yourself from capital warfare if you choose to by simply not engaging or forcing people to come to plexes if they want to fight you.
Also do like the fact that cyno jammers can and need to be killed by the enemy to be disabled. This would be better than a constant thing with full global effect anyway. Iron Oxide. 2IC & Diplomat Minmatar Milita KB & TS Lead Admin Queen of the Channel Operators Amarr Surplus Equipment Manager-á |

Xuixien
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
83
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 21:01:00 -
[51] - Quote
It just seems strategically sound that the various Spacenations would employ cynosaural jamming technology. Isn't controlling the engagement 90% of success in EVE?
As long as it's killable I see no problem.
(Also how come we can't have caps in HiSec?) Rabble Rabble!! |

Xuixien
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
83
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 21:01:00 -
[52] - Quote
Amymuffmuff wrote:My post was classed as trolling?
I think it was deleted because it contained elements of and/or was a response to my trolling. Rabble Rabble!! |

Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
310
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 21:03:00 -
[53] - Quote
Capitol One- Why are you making a big deal of a thread about an offhand remark that Yitter made? It's not like he suggested to the CSM that CCP should remove caps from FW. He just gave his own personal offhand opinion. I read the entire conversation and it was just an offhand remark to which they quickly moved on.
So don't worry, WBR can still keep hotdropping people :)
I personally don't have a problem with caps and people in FW should be allowed to use caps. I don't own a cap myself and don't intend to anytime soon. And as Vordak said, caps aren't the problem. It's supercaps.
Unlike Mutnin, I don't think caps ruin the fun for FW. It's the paranoia people have about getting hotdropped that ruins their fun. Gallente FW Blog http://iamsheriff.com/blog
C'est La Eve :) |

Capitol One
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
53
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 21:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
Mutnin wrote: FW has always been one of the few places people could get a reasonable chance of daily small gang PVP. It has always been intended as a place for newer players and smaller/newer corps to get a start and never was intended to be a place for large corps to sit in idly forever because they don't want to take any risk in the outside world.
I'm not for dumbing down the game, but things like Titians and large capitol fleets were never intended for FW. Groups like yourself & Sotf that have the ability to titian bridge at will and drop large capitol supported gangs are bad for the basic concept that is FW.
FW has always been about younger groups & players & giving them a place to grow. It was never intended place for some 30 year old virgin to try and get a date..
First of all, we do not just "sit idly", we're one of the main contributors to FW in recent history, despite all troll attempts to the contrary.
Secondly, you're sorely mistaken if you think that deploying a cap fleet in the current political climate of eve ,with multiple strong groups just itching to massacre your fleet, is somehow less risky than flying in a small drake fleet.
You seem to have a lot of preconceptions on what "FW is supposed to be". Let me educate you, eve is a sandbox, the players shape the gameplay and caps are included in that lowsec gameplay where FW takes place ;)
FW is not just for young players or as some people love calling us "Militia Noobs", it's for whoever fancies the mechanics and all that FW has to offer, be it easy access to all kinds of pvp (frigates -> caps) via the endless War, FW missions, plexing or roleplaying.
I guess we've all forgotten about that time when 2 notable FW corps (W-BR/SOTF) killed a PL titan in their home system (Amamake) with Dreads \o/. |

Capitol One
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
53
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 21:26:00 -
[55] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:Capitol One- Why are you making a big deal of a thread about an offhand remark that Yitter made? It's not like he suggested to the CSM that CCP should remove caps from FW. He just gave his own personal offhand opinion. I read the entire conversation and it was just an offhand remark to which they quickly moved on.
So don't worry, WBR can still keep hotdropping people :)
I personally don't have a problem with caps and people in FW should be allowed to use caps. I don't own a cap myself and don't intend to anytime soon. And as Vordak said, caps aren't the problem. It's supercaps.
Unlike Mutnin, I don't think caps ruin the fun for FW. It's the paranoia people have about getting hotdropped that ruins their fun.
It's more of making a statement, considering the leading developer on all things FW has a warped idea of what FW is. I'm not entirely sure, but I don't think Ytterbium has actively participated in FW, instead spending his playtime with other less turbulant highsec activities (don't quote me on that!).
I've always found him to be an excellent dev and a great listener so that's why I felt I needed to point out the "error of his ways", even if it was only an offhanded remark it showed an opinion that is the complete opposite of a majority of FW players.
CCP has repeatedly said that FW is for noobs and veterans alike, well .. as a veteran I'd like to keep my cap fights :) |

GenesisMike
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
34
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 22:10:00 -
[56] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:Capitol One wrote:Xuixien wrote:Capitol One wrote:Your "consequence" would have my rather fly stabbed merlins and rifters instead of expensive ships engaging in interesting combat that brings a lot of players in FW together in one big brawl.
But I guess you're so used to your rifters you can't comprehend anything beyond them. You've presented a false dichotomy my friend. We have more choices than "YAY CAPITAL BLOB" and "Frigate Fleet". There's a whole range of possibilities in-between. I fly Firetails and the occasional Wolf. I'm in the process of training up Hybrid Turrets so I can start flying Merlins and perhaps Harpies, although I am excited to start training my missile skills once I get Turret Control: Elite. Fair point, I might've been overly eager in my reply. However my point still stands, limiting FW to only subcaps is just a terrible handicap. I mean we live in lowsec for crying out loud, this isn't RvB. What am I supposed to do when I see a pirate cap fleet deploy in my surrounding area? Go whine on the forums about it or actually get to drop a few dreads and Faction BS with Triage support on them and show'em who's boss! To summarize: FW is many things. It's frigate combat and elusive 1v1 battles ranging to cruiser and bc brawls inside plexes to the bigger BS fights with caps when things get more serious. Don't force FW pilots to become handicapped because "hotdrop is bad", there are ways around the hotdrop and even still, you're flying in lowsec ... the hotdrop is always a threat, be it from FW corps, Pirate corps or nullsec groups. FW has always been one of the few places people could get a reasonable chance of daily small gang PVP. It has always been intended as a place for newer players and smaller/newer corps to get a start and never was intended to be a place for large corps to sit in idly forever because they don't want to take any risk in the outside world. I'm not for dumbing down the game, but things like Titians and large capitol fleets were never intended for FW. Groups like yourself & Sotf that have the ability to titian bridge at will and drop large capitol supported gangs are bad for the basic concept that is FW. FW has always been about younger groups & players & giving them a place to grow. It was never intended place for some 30 year old virgin to try and get a date..
Cap pilots are virgins???? Interesting turn in this discussion. |

Trendafil
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 05:26:00 -
[57] - Quote
I support capitals in FW!
Also now that DD is single target, make it work in low sec PLEAAAAAASE! :D |

Hrett
Justified Chaos
135
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 06:44:00 -
[58] - Quote
ISD TYPE40 wrote:Thread has been cleaned of off topic and troll posts. Please stick to the actual topic of discussion and post responsibly, thank you.
Removed troll and off topic posts - ISD Type40.
But you left some of Xuixien's posts. Could we ask you to take another pass? I find them very difficult to stomach. ;) |

Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
311
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:00:00 -
[59] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:Capitol One wrote:Xuixien wrote:Capitol One wrote:Your "consequence" would have my rather fly stabbed merlins and rifters instead of expensive ships engaging in interesting combat that brings a lot of players in FW together in one big brawl.
But I guess you're so used to your rifters you can't comprehend anything beyond them. You've presented a false dichotomy my friend. We have more choices than "YAY CAPITAL BLOB" and "Frigate Fleet". There's a whole range of possibilities in-between. I fly Firetails and the occasional Wolf. I'm in the process of training up Hybrid Turrets so I can start flying Merlins and perhaps Harpies, although I am excited to start training my missile skills once I get Turret Control: Elite. Fair point, I might've been overly eager in my reply. However my point still stands, limiting FW to only subcaps is just a terrible handicap. I mean we live in lowsec for crying out loud, this isn't RvB. What am I supposed to do when I see a pirate cap fleet deploy in my surrounding area? Go whine on the forums about it or actually get to drop a few dreads and Faction BS with Triage support on them and show'em who's boss! To summarize: FW is many things. It's frigate combat and elusive 1v1 battles ranging to cruiser and bc brawls inside plexes to the bigger BS fights with caps when things get more serious. Don't force FW pilots to become handicapped because "hotdrop is bad", there are ways around the hotdrop and even still, you're flying in lowsec ... the hotdrop is always a threat, be it from FW corps, Pirate corps or nullsec groups. FW has always been one of the few places people could get a reasonable chance of daily small gang PVP. It has always been intended as a place for newer players and smaller/newer corps to get a start and never was intended to be a place for large corps to sit in idly forever because they don't want to take any risk in the outside world. I'm not for dumbing down the game, but things like Titians and large capitol fleets were never intended for FW. Groups like yourself & Sotf that have the ability to titian bridge at will and drop large capitol supported gangs are bad for the basic concept that is FW. FW has always been about younger groups & players & giving them a place to grow. It was never intended place for some 30 year old virgin to try and get a date..
You can find small gang pvp in a number of places. FW isn't the only place. FW is just the only place where you don't have to roam far to fight another person. Be grateful that you don't have to. I wanted to do a 50-system roam last week and pilots on comms just started moaning and whining about it. And here I thought roaming to new places and fighting new people would be an adventure and learning experience. Instead, people just want to sit on the undock in Nenn, Heyd, or whatever and hope targets come to them or wait for an FC to herd them out of station. Such laziness.
I don't see where CCP says FW is ONLY for young groups and players. You've consistently called more established corps like Qcats, WBR, SOTF, as hacks who couldn't cut it if they went to null. Hence they fall back on FW so they can exist in their own little bubble. So if that's the case, then by your own definition, you also, are a hack considering you have tons of knowledge and experience and have refused to move past FW. Unless I'm missing something?
Hotdropping is part of living in dangerous space. If people don't know how to avoid getting hotdropped, then they have bigger issues to worry about.
Gallente FW Blog http://iamsheriff.com/blog
C'est La Eve :) |

RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
146
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:22:00 -
[60] - Quote
[quote]CCP Ytterbium: GÇ¥Something I really don't like in Factional Warfare, is just the capital hot drop. To me it has nothing to do with what Factional Warfare is supposed to do.GÇ¥[quote]
Recap for CCP: They created a 4 faction perma war. Gave the factions 4, huge, multi system, warzones The whole thing promotes large fleet/blob warfare. They gave ISK compensation that is arguably the best in game. Then they added SOV mechanics Station lockout, upgraded systems, etc.
What part of this did they think would discourage cap ships ? Were we supposed to take down I-Hubs with Harpy fleets ?
FW is better than it has been in years. I hope they don't "fix" it, by doing some cap ship ban.
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