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SFX Bladerunner
Minmatar
Black Serpent Technologies
R.A.G.E
   |
Posted - 2010.10.13 11:23:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Salient
Edited by: Salient on 12/10/2010 17:43:17
Originally by: SFX Bladerunner
I'm going to go on a limb here and take a wild guess that you've actually never before played a game where it was possible to walk around in indoor locations in MP without being able to kill people...
(also known as RolePlaying SRSBSNS)
From the top of my head here are some well-known griefing tactics:
-passageway blocking
-door blocking
-entrance/exit blocking
-non-stop bunnyhopping in front of someone's face with your big fat bald ugly brutor toon
-non-stop humping
-jumping on tables/bars
-jumping on people's heads and taking residence
-stalking
-chat(bubble) harrassment
The list goes on and on...
My latest personal experience with harrassment is the armsdealer doorblocking in Killing Floor (yay for Co-op without FriendlyFire... rite?)
You've successfully illustrated the epic lameness of Walking In Stations. IMHO of course.
Actually, the only illustration made from his post is the lameness and pathetic behavior of griefers. And it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. This is what they look for in any new content; how to grief play. But it doesn't mean the content itself is lame.
Actually, what my post illustrates is the severe depths to which a PVP (combat liking) player is willing to sink to get his fix in situations where carebear roleplayer socializing scum roams free.
Walking in stations without being able to kill people just turns incarnea into a blatant horrible ripoff of hobohotel/second life.. and really, who the hell plays such pathetic games?
At the very least CCP could attempt to create SOME SORT of unique 'EVE style' gameplay to incarnea.. like, I dunno... the way EVE itself is actually set up?!?!
Explanation:
<space gameplay>
high-sec = safe space. you can kill people, but concord kills your ship
lo-sec/0.0 = unsafe space. you can kill people, concord does not live here
wardec = you can kill people's ships in safe space and concord does not interfere
<logical progression of incarnea gameplay>
high-sec = safe stations. you can kill people (their current clone), but concord kills you (your clone)
lo-sec/0.0 = unsafe space. people can kill people in stations here freely
wardec = you can kill people's clones in stations and concord does not interfere.
^ THAT would be a logical continuation of eve gameplay as it has been since... oh I dunno, always?!
Making Incarnea a feature for peace loving hippies that just want to socialize and play silly mini games is like closing all of empire off to anyone that intends to do someone else harm.
Sandbox my ass, CCP you've gotten soft.
__________________________________________________
History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.. |
Abulurd Boniface
Gallente
0ccam's Razor Industries
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 12:10:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Abulurd Boniface on 13/10/2010 12:13:21
Originally by: SFX Bladerunner
Walking in stations without being able to kill people just turns incarnea into a blatant horrible ripoff of hobohotel/second life.. and really, who the hell plays such pathetic games?
Sandbox my ass, CCP you've gotten soft.
You want to know something? Those two sentiments are -exactly- why I made the original post. I've listened and read the language CCP is making regarding Incursion and Incarna and it seems clear they are moving away from the raw nature of EVE. Their goal is to attract more users. More users will only come when there is a lure sufficiently scrumptious enough to take the bite. The user base of EVE is relatively small for a MMO because, let's face it, EVE just isn't for everybody. It sounds cool to read "you can lose everything you have" in a game until it actually happens to you. There you are then, in a station, with a newbie frigate. You lost your ship, your cargo, your implants. You get to do it all over again. If you were -really- dumb about it, you didn't update your clone and now you're not making any new SP for a [[very] long] time.
CCP want EVE to be the best sci-fi MMO out there. And you have to wonder: who is going to reside there. Who is it being made for? The hard nose like you, SFX, won't look kindly on the soft and squishy meat bags flying around in that "weeeeeeeeeeeeeee, a spaceships!!" kind of way. But they are not going to take kindly to us coming along and going "They didn't actually tell you what this was going to be like, did they?" before locking and making their dainty little boat go POOF!. No sir, they sure won't like that. They also won't like it when they complain to a GM and he goes "Yeah, about that. That's what happens here. Want a biscuit?"
To lure more players it has to become a different place. It's not for everybody. However, when it changes enough, it's going to lose its appeal for the players who do like the way it is now [that's you, me (the carebear), and everybody else who thinks like that] and we're going to lose the best place to spend some time online that I know of. We're going to have to make way for a new generation of players, people who don't want all the hassle, but who bring in the cold hard cash, and who can be made to fork over money for silly things like a change of outfit.
My take on the future. I've been wrong about things before, I certainly won't mind being about this. EVE is rough, blunt and merciless. For me, she's the perfect woman. I don't care whether she looks cute or not, her heart is in the right place.
For good to survive it suffices for evil to acquire a deadly, incapacitating disease. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 13:23:00 -
[33]
Originally by: SFX Bladerunner
Actually, what my post illustrates is the severe depths to which a PVP (combat liking) player is willing to sink to get his fix in situations where carebear roleplayer socializing scum roams free.
Walking in stations without being able to kill people just turns incarnea into a blatant horrible ripoff of hobohotel/second life.. and really, who the hell plays such pathetic games?
At the very least CCP could attempt to create SOME SORT of unique 'EVE style' gameplay to incarnea.. like, I dunno... the way EVE itself is actually set up?!?!
Explanation:
<space gameplay>
high-sec = safe space. you can kill people, but concord kills your ship
lo-sec/0.0 = unsafe space. you can kill people, concord does not live here
wardec = you can kill people's ships in safe space and concord does not interfere
<logical progression of incarnea gameplay>
high-sec = safe stations. you can kill people (their current clone), but concord kills you (your clone)
lo-sec/0.0 = unsafe space. people can kill people in stations here freely
wardec = you can kill people's clones in stations and concord does not interfere.
^ THAT would be a logical continuation of eve gameplay as it has been since... oh I dunno, always?!
Making Incarnea a feature for peace loving hippies that just want to socialize and play silly mini games is like closing all of empire off to anyone that intends to do someone else harm.
Sandbox my ass, CCP you've gotten soft.
Right, the problem in your view, is the carebears that don't wish to subject themselves to your childish grief play. If you have a problem where you need to get your "fix" taken care of Eve is not the game for you, as it involves a whole lot more than just PVP. I suggest you try Counterstrike or a fast-paced FPS.
But alas, at the end of the day and with all your *****ing and whining I suspect you'll stick with Eve, since it is one of the easiest games for someone like you to grief and collect tears to fuel your real life frustrations. It has nothing to do with Eve sucking or Eve not being hardcore enough.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 14:17:00 -
[34]
Can those of us who are Mega wealthy hire npc bodyguards that follow us around 24/7? :o
------
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SFX Bladerunner
Minmatar
Black Serpent Technologies
R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 14:43:00 -
[35]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: SFX Bladerunner
Actually, what my post illustrates is the severe depths to which a PVP (combat liking) player is willing to sink to get his fix in situations where carebear roleplayer socializing scum roams free.
Walking in stations without being able to kill people just turns incarnea into a blatant horrible ripoff of hobohotel/second life.. and really, who the hell plays such pathetic games?
At the very least CCP could attempt to create SOME SORT of unique 'EVE style' gameplay to incarnea.. like, I dunno... the way EVE itself is actually set up?!?!
Explanation:
<space gameplay>
high-sec = safe space. you can kill people, but concord kills your ship
lo-sec/0.0 = unsafe space. you can kill people, concord does not live here
wardec = you can kill people's ships in safe space and concord does not interfere
<logical progression of incarnea gameplay>
high-sec = safe stations. you can kill people (their current clone), but concord kills you (your clone)
lo-sec/0.0 = unsafe space. people can kill people in stations here freely
wardec = you can kill people's clones in stations and concord does not interfere.
^ THAT would be a logical continuation of eve gameplay as it has been since... oh I dunno, always?!
Making Incarnea a feature for peace loving hippies that just want to socialize and play silly mini games is like closing all of empire off to anyone that intends to do someone else harm.
Sandbox my ass, CCP you've gotten soft.
Right, the problem in your view, is the carebears that don't wish to subject themselves to your childish grief play. If you have a problem where you need to get your "fix" taken care of Eve is not the game for you, as it involves a whole lot more than just PVP. I suggest you try Counterstrike or a fast-paced FPS.
But alas, at the end of the day and with all your *****ing and whining I suspect you'll stick with Eve, since it is one of the easiest games for someone like you to grief and collect tears to fuel your real life frustrations. It has nothing to do with Eve sucking or Eve not being hardcore enough.
1. I am not a griefer myself, so your entire argument is kind of invalid
2. I believe you are misinterpreting my words:
I believe you interpreted them as "omg I want to kill y is incarnea coming to satisfy carebears and not more pewpew?!? o.O T_T EVE is about pewpew and mining is for noobs lol".
This is, of course, horribly wrong.
As I said before, EVE is a SANDBOX game.
The GENERAL GIST of a SANDBOX game is the ability to CHOOSE.
Choice and non-linear/fixed gameplay is what SANDBOX is all about.
(example: the ultimate sandbox would let you do anything, anywhere, anytime)
When introducing a new feature to a SANDBOX game expanding it's core gameplay one very important thing you (usually) take into account is how the NEW GAMEPLAY holds up to the OLD GAMEPLAY.
If you were able to kill anyone anywhere in the OLD CORE GAMEPLAY but the NEW GAMEPLAY does not allow you to 'kill' than that to me seems like a new added limitation, taking away CHOICE and thus taking away from the SANDBOX.
If that somehow still did not make sense to you, here's an example anyone could understand.
Incarnea without being able to kill ppl as a new feature/expansion to EVE would be similar to a new mappack for pac-man but where you can't eat ghosts anymore.
-carebears/whatever don't want killing in stations
-pvpers do want killing in stations
What seems more fair to you.. letting all gamers do what they like in this sandbox game by striking a compromise (basically what concord fullfills in space) or make the entire incarnea new feature only interresting to a sub-set of players?
I mean, it's not like incarnea is comparable to 'a new mining barge' (that ofc only makes certain players happy).. we're talking about WALKING IN STATIONS here. To make such a gigantic new feature/gameplay only interresting for the homohotel/second fail subset of players is just ludicrous!
NOM
__________________________________________________
History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.. |
L Kahn
Sancta Terra
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 14:57:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Angel Rodriguez
1- Thief pickpocket some dude n gets caught
2- dude punches thief in the face
3- 25-50 associates of thief start rushing thru corridors and proceed to beat the living F**K out of dude
4- ????
5- PROFIT
...i think i have seen something like this in some other game but cant remember ! 
Sounds like UO to me..
Kahn, because spelling is lame.
iam nameless > with friends like you who needs enemies :D
|
Baneken
Gallente
School of the Unseen
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 17:37:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Guilliman R
Can those of us who are Mega wealthy hire npc bodyguards that follow us around 24/7? :o
You wouldn't like them to have "drone AI" like we have in current build where drones shoot anything that moves or crawls (and structures as well...).
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Joe McAlt
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 00:52:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Joe McAlt on 14/10/2010 00:55:34
I really am hoping that they make it possible to have combat in the corridors. What they should try to avoid is allowing the "bigger and better" aspect of the game to take over. If it comes down to virtual demigods walking around killing guys who cannot possibly fight back, well then then Eve will continue to be a niche game where vet players will rule and noobs will cycle in and out as they become disinharted with the game.
On the other hand, if anyone with a gun can kill anyone else, like it is in real life, then you will see some very interesting game play in those corridors. There was a saying in the American old West. "God created man, but Colt made them equal."
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Haseo Smith
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 05:11:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Baneken
Originally by: Guilliman R
Can those of us who are Mega wealthy hire npc bodyguards that follow us around 24/7? :o
You wouldn't like them to have "drone AI" like we have in current build where drones shoot anything that moves or crawls (and structures as well...).
My Body guard drones are gonna beat the S**t out of every revolving door that hits my ass as I walk through.
|
Zions Child
Caldari
Carthage Industries
Dead Terrorists
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 05:22:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Haseo Smith
My Body guard drones are gonna beat the S**t out of every revolving door that hits my ass as I walk through.
Oh yeah? Well my bodyguards are going to have the RMR drone AI, and beat the everloving s**t out of every member of my fleet they see!
Originally by: CCP Shadow
*snip* Castration successful. Shadow.
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Haseo Smith
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 05:48:00 -
[41]
well low sec stations have sentry guns at least. Maybe they'll have some little over head turrets around the doors that'll shoot at people.
and of course for the RP people. (not really people but paying customers) there's the problem with fitting in the whole new clone thing without a pod. as the pod is the only way to be cloned per the lore.
http://www.eveonline.com/background/eggers/
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Joe McAlt
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 06:37:00 -
[42]
I imagine there will be some floors or levels on a station that are high sec in nature and some that are low or even null. I could see a problem for a guy who kills a bunch of people in a station, suffers a loss of status and then is destroyed by station guns the moment he undocks. Also, as was pointed out, there will have to be a change in the lore, or else maybe if you die in station, you revert to a copy and get reanimated at the point you were at when you last cloned? That could also cause the loss of skillpoints as your memory was dumped. Will eve allow raging battles in the station and what would happen if during a fight between waring parties you acidently shoot an innocent who is just enjoying the exotic dancers?
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Haseo Smith
Minmatar
Wrecking Shots
-Mostly Harmless-
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 07:52:00 -
[43]
Probably something like that. That recent Chronicle about Jita did describe the station in that fashion. maybe when we disembark from our pod, we would be in a Jump Clone of sorts that is a low grade clone (since we dont really need to know how to pilot that Hurricane to get drunk at the bar and watch the dancers.)
Fake Edit: I forsee an increase in prices of exotic dancers.
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Paknac Queltel
Swords Horses and Heavy Metal
|
Posted - 2010.10.14 07:56:00 -
[44]
Yeah, the Jita 4-4 chron has capsuleers sneaking around outside of capsuleer areas. Would be very awesome if we can actually do that.
I'm not expecting it.
-
Paknac Queltel
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Joe McAlt
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 00:33:00 -
[45]
It would be cool if they actually have exotic dancers. Just make the game 18 years and older 
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Haseo Smith
Minmatar
Wrecking Shots
-Mostly Harmless-
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 01:58:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Joe McAlt
Just make the game 18 years and older
Just this ^
even w/o the dancers.
and I'll be happy.
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Henry Haphorn
Gallente
Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 04:32:00 -
[47]
/me walks up to a WT in the hi-sec station and pistol whips him in the middle of the plaza. He then proceeds to steal his wallet and walks away while Concord police officers simply walk by. (pistol-whipping skill lvl 5)
/me jump clones back to 0.0.
/me walks around the player-built outpost in 0.0 looking for a beer when all of a sudden a neut shows up on local. He finds out that the neut is a station rat, gathers his friends and starts looking for the unwanted guest.
/me and his gang find his apartment and then wait for the neut to foolishly walk out.
/me is the first to jump the neut and begins pistol whipping him to the ground. His gang kicks the neut.
/me fires a bullet on the neut's head so that he would wake up in the hi-sec station in a clone vat bay. (pistol-accuracy level 4)
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Buck Marui
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 10:18:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Abulurd Boniface
Originally by: Joe McAlt
Originally by: Buck Marui
You cannot walk in stations during an active wardec 
I could see an entirly new griefing tactic here if that is the case. 1 man corps wardecking entire large allainces just to keep all their members out of the station. Something the size of Hydra with a thousand players all kept out of the corridors by one man corp with a wardec. now that would be some tears worth collecting
Is this really how that will work? I haven't seen that discussion. It would be broken content. It is not realistic and if you could really do that it would suffice for an alliance to create a toon to war dec an alliance indefinitely. That content would then grind to a halt. You may rest assured that our lords and masters in far Reykjavik will not be positively inclined by a simple and cheap tactic to deprive thousands of players of their new content.
While I was merely trying to point out a consequence of walking in stations, I'm not against station combat per se. If I can be attacked, that means I can attack myself. If I can reciprocate I don't have a problem with it. People griefing, and they are there, should go do something else. I believe blocking doors will be prohibited, like blocking station exits is. Intentionally annoying people by jumping on tables and filling chat with nonsense... I guess it's a play style but it seems like a waste of good money to spend time like that. The thing it says, more than any other, is that the person systematically engaging in the behavior is missing some key aspects in their life. I thought they made Sadville for that.
I wasn't being serious, I was just pointing out that the OP was wild speculation and therefore pointless to debate by adding my own speculation to it...
...It was like sarcasm but better |
Lemmy Kravitz
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 13:09:00 -
[49]
I've said this before, if Incarna doesn't quickly implement the current pvp in station I toss my subscription and go play Final Fantasy. I play because on the box it advertised a cold cruel world where actions have consequences and you can loot their corpse. If I can't shoot a WT in the face while running around in station. I'll deinstall and play a PVE game that is more appealing like the new Star Wars MMO that's supposed to be coming out, or Final Fantasy.
The only reason why I put up with the simplistic space battles, the glitches, the horrible patches, the lag, the imbalances etc. etc. Is the fact that i can Take your stuff out of your cold dead hands. Make a space in ever where people ineract and that possibilty isn't available. You get rid of what makes Eve different from all other MMO's out there.
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Paknac Queltel
Swords Horses and Heavy Metal
|
Posted - 2010.10.15 17:55:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Buck Marui
I wasn't being serious, I was just pointing out that the OP was wild speculation and therefore pointless to debate by adding my own speculation to it...
...It was like sarcasm but better
So you were... trolling in stations?
*ba-dum TISH*
-
Paknac Queltel
|
Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Red Whine
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 09:54:00 -
[51]
Quote:
Torfi Frans Olafsson: It will never become an FPS. DUST 514 is the FPS in the EVE world. We're not planning to run down corridors with plasma rifles in non-fibre armour.
EVE is a more strategic, slow-paced game than Team Fortress 2, and it will always be that way. But that does not mean there will be no conflict or combat. It just means we are not aiming towards doing an FPS within EVE itself.
Linkage
Not gonna be FPS, thank god.
Proving once again, that, I AM BETTER THAN YOU. |
Abulurd Boniface
Gallente
0ccam's Razor Industries
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 12:02:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Lemmy Kravitz
I've said this before, if Incarna doesn't quickly implement the current pvp in station I toss my subscription and go play Final Fantasy. I play because on the box it advertised a cold cruel world where actions have consequences and you can loot their corpse. If I can't shoot a WT in the face while running around in station. I'll deinstall and play a PVE game that is more appealing like the new Star Wars MMO that's supposed to be coming out, or Final Fantasy.
The only reason why I put up with the simplistic space battles, the glitches, the horrible patches, the lag, the imbalances etc. etc. Is the fact that i can Take your stuff out of your cold dead hands. Make a space in ever where people ineract and that possibilty isn't available. You get rid of what makes Eve different from all other MMO's out there.
I'm going with this one. That's my gold standard. As soon as EVE loses that quality it's "The Emperor Has No Clothes" time and some aspects of it that we lovingly brush aside, become intolerable annoyances. I'm hoping CCP get the balance right.
For good to survive it suffices for evil to acquire a deadly, incapacitating disease. |
Mining rock
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 20:59:00 -
[53]
I wanna kill em pick up there corpse and chuck it into the docking bay
On a serious note- private corp rooms and alliance rooms where ceos/directors can sit down and watch 100 dancers shake there thing :-)
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Supercon
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 22:09:00 -
[54]
(quote from Eurogamer.net) Torfi Frans Olafsson: It will never become an FPS. DUST 514 is the FPS in the EVE world. We're not planning to run down corridors with plasma rifles in non-fibre armour.
EVE is a more strategic, slow-paced game than Team Fortress 2, and it will always be that way. But that does not mean there will be no conflict or combat. It just means we are not aiming towards doing an FPS within EVE itself. (end quote)
Sweet! So it can be just like Eve as usual. You can live peacefully like a carebear or face the wrath of corporate enemies you have made from your rash actions.
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Laertes Bluzco
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 08:02:00 -
[55]
I think it's pretty much inevitable that there will have to be some kind of conflict in the stations for the whole system to make sense.
That or they should just make npc stations nuke-able so that people log into a floating corpse. 
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Lillith Starfire
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 11:56:00 -
[56]
Too much people wanting to shoot people in this thread! You will ruin the new dresses and accessories for our dolls! Toons. I mean characters. Also, /dance
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Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
|
Posted - 2010.10.17 23:00:00 -
[57]
Hmmmm.
If the future has anything in relation to the past in various other MMOs then I'd suggest most of us will be goofing around perusing, selecting, buying and arranging furniture in our offices.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
|
Posted - 2010.10.19 19:22:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Whitehound on 19/10/2010 19:24:20
On the side, I have a few questions about Incarna.
- Who asked for it?
- Why do we need it?
- Why do we get it despite us not needing it?
- Will it be an optional patch, which I actually can*) refuse to download?
I really just want spaceships and space, and not some friggin' home coming / return of the Muppets. Seriously, when Incarna comes will my character only be idling on the promenade. Just dock up and idle, without moving a friggin' inch. My character will stand there like a frozen statue. A decoration. Likely a decoration among many other idle characters. Therefore do I seriously need to ask: WTF?
*) I never understood the optional part in the latest series of bugfixes**).
**) Unless CCP themselves was not sure***) if these patches fixed anything or if they would make it worse.
***) This is soo uncool.
--
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Abulurd Boniface
Gallente
0ccam's Razor Industries
|
Posted - 2010.10.19 20:45:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Whitehound
Edited by: Whitehound on 19/10/2010 19:24:20
- Who asked for it?
Not us. Marketing did. The drive for more eyeballs in seats. More revenue.
Quote:
- Why do we need it?
-We- do not need it. -We- need less lag, working features, great content. What -we- need is not so important.
Quote:
- Why do we get it despite us not needing it?
Because we need more people logging on. We need a new paradigm, we need to become different so that we can lure in more people. People who, very likely, are not so much enamored by the fact that you can actually lose the whole kit 'n kaboodle when the ship goes Pop!. We're going to look good, there will be girlies giggling in local "Ooooh, look how cute. Look at her hair! I look amazing! I wish I had hair like that. Hey, I've got something here, it's spinning around. What's a Velator? Why does it look so puny? Who wants that anyway?" -Those- people.
Quote:
- Will it be an optional patch, which I actually can*) refuse to download?
You know it doesn't work like that, don't be silly. You'll have all the choice of a factory worker in North Korea. You'll use it and you'll enjoy it, or you don't get to enter the factory at all.
For good to survive it suffices for evil to acquire a deadly, incapacitating disease. |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
|
Posted - 2010.10.19 23:06:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Abulurd Boniface
You know it doesn't work like that, don't be silly. You'll have all the choice of a factory worker in North Korea. You'll use it and you'll enjoy it, or you don't get to enter the factory at all.
I was not being silly. I was being witty. Just so you know. Or perhaps can you say why bug fixes are now being provided as optional patches? If that was not a statement by CCP on how little they value bug fixing then only the absence of bug fixes would show it. So, no, it did not mean that I believe we will get this unnecessary resource eating feature as an optional patch. I do however wonder what options CCP does have for us if not "quit or STFU".
--
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