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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Yora Monnis
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Posted - 2010.12.15 23:54:00 -
[31]
Originally by: King Rothgar I agree, low sec missions are worthless. This is especially true for lvl5's. They are impossible to solo in anything but a crazy expensive ship like a carrier or faction fitted marauder/faction BS. Taking such a thing into low sec is just nuts. To attempt a lvl5 will draw the instant wrath of every pirate within 20 jumps, you probably won't kill the first npc before you go down from player action.
I would also stay away from low sec exploration. Those sites are total garbage. You'll never get anything shiny from them, the npc's are a joke and you'll get instantly probed and ganked by pirates as with missions. Sections of low sec also cannot be controlled by a corp/alliance like null sec can. Thus you can't just secure the systems you operate in. This is because no one in low sec is trust worthy and everyone is out for themselves.
Have you thought of trying to join the people that live in the systems where there are level 5 missions? I know for a fact that Aeschee has two different groups of people who live there and constantly do level 5 missions in carriers, or run level 4 SOE missions in Navy Ravens and Golems.
Don't think you can go into something like level 5 missions with no friends and you'll have alot more fun at this game, it's an amazing concept.
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2010.12.16 00:49:00 -
[32]
You can easily do lvl5s in unprobeable ships (ie 2 x tengu, 1 basilisk/scimitar).
The key to low sec mission imo is the unprobeable tengu along with high faction standing so you can chain decline missions out of system (if you don't have an alt scout or are lazy). I usually decline anything that won't get me lots of lp for the time it takes either.
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Luminos
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Posted - 2010.12.16 04:38:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Brannor McThife Lowsec is teh sux.
Originally by: CCP Dropbear True. Tengu or GTFO.
Fixed that for the tl;dr crowd.
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Mike TheMiner
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Posted - 2010.12.16 04:40:00 -
[34]
OP needs to grow a pair, rewards for exploration sites are higher in lowsec due to the space being less explored, thats good enough for me, plus you only need an AF for most sites anyway, why risk a t3 if its not unprobeable ?
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.12.16 05:37:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Yora Monnis
Originally by: King Rothgar I agree, low sec missions are worthless. This is especially true for lvl5's. They are impossible to solo in anything but a crazy expensive ship like a carrier or faction fitted marauder/faction BS. Taking such a thing into low sec is just nuts. To attempt a lvl5 will draw the instant wrath of every pirate within 20 jumps, you probably won't kill the first npc before you go down from player action.
I would also stay away from low sec exploration. Those sites are total garbage. You'll never get anything shiny from them, the npc's are a joke and you'll get instantly probed and ganked by pirates as with missions. Sections of low sec also cannot be controlled by a corp/alliance like null sec can. Thus you can't just secure the systems you operate in. This is because no one in low sec is trust worthy and everyone is out for themselves.
Have you thought of trying to join the people that live in the systems where there are level 5 missions? I know for a fact that Aeschee has two different groups of people who live there and constantly do level 5 missions in carriers, or run level 4 SOE missions in Navy Ravens and Golems.
Don't think you can go into something like level 5 missions with no friends and you'll have alot more fun at this game, it's an amazing concept.
Irony
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.12.16 11:41:00 -
[36]
Quote:
The point I take is that the difference between PvE fits and PvP fits is so horribly bent that PvE in lowsec is worthless. The PvE ship is at a severe disadvantage simply because of the disparity in fits.
Make PvE require ship fits similar to PvP (Sleepers are pretty good at this), and lowsec will become more fun. PvE people won't have to hide from scanners, they won't have to gimp their fit to be unscannable. The scanners will get better fights out of it...oh wait, they don't want better fights, they want to gank and run with minimal risk to themselves. Oh well, let 'em whine
You *almost* got to the point but you didn't.
The point is that making low sec missions require PvP fitting would still be pointless:
- The attacker will still have the element of surprise (at least some of it)
- The attacker will be intact and unengaged, while you'll be occupied, possibly half damaged if not NPC scrambled (where it happens)
- The attacker will know your ship in advance and setup a counter
- The attacker WILL warp in with 117,348 ships in order to "solo" you "fairly".
Result: you will die, PVP fit or not. That's all matters.
- Auditing & consulting
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Sanaki Iori
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.16 12:13:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
The point I take is that the difference between PvE fits and PvP fits is so horribly bent that PvE in lowsec is worthless. The PvE ship is at a severe disadvantage simply because of the disparity in fits.
Make PvE require ship fits similar to PvP (Sleepers are pretty good at this), and lowsec will become more fun. PvE people won't have to hide from scanners, they won't have to gimp their fit to be unscannable. The scanners will get better fights out of it...oh wait, they don't want better fights, they want to gank and run with minimal risk to themselves. Oh well, let 'em whine
You *almost* got to the point but you didn't.
The point is that making low sec missions require PvP fitting would still be pointless:
- The attacker will still have the element of surprise (at least some of it)
- The attacker will be intact and unengaged, while you'll be occupied, possibly half damaged if not NPC scrambled (where it happens)
- The attacker will know your ship in advance and setup a counter
- The attacker WILL warp in with 117,348 ships in order to "solo" you "fairly".
Result: you will die, PVP fit or not. That's all matters.
^This. That's why we call them pirates and not anything else involving some measure of fairness in their gameplay. Just nerf mission ships so they can withstand those pesky gankers. "It basically comes down to who started the battle with the biggest boots ! The only strategy involved is realizing when things have gone **** up and legging it." Attributed to [u]Ben "Yahtzee" |
Joran Jagg
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Posted - 2010.12.16 14:06:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Joran Jagg on 16/12/2010 14:05:59 Edited by: Joran Jagg on 16/12/2010 14:05:43
Originally by: 5nipe
Unprobable Tengu fit makes sense only for expeditions since the site itself can't be scanned
Ok, so the expedition and my ship can't be scanned, therefore found directly. What about wrecks ? Can those be scanned down ? In other words, is there a way to find me if I'm doing an expedition and have an unprobable ship ?
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Mr Dilkington
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Posted - 2010.12.16 14:35:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Joran Jagg Edited by: Joran Jagg on 16/12/2010 14:05:59 Edited by: Joran Jagg on 16/12/2010 14:05:43
Originally by: 5nipe
Unprobable Tengu fit makes sense only for expeditions since the site itself can't be scanned
Ok, so the expedition and my ship can't be scanned, therefore found directly. What about wrecks ? Can those be scanned down ? In other words, is there a way to find me if I'm doing an expedition and have an unprobable ship ?
No, wrecks cannot be probed out, dones however can for some reason.
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Isaac Apylon
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
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Posted - 2010.12.16 15:19:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Caphelo The scanners will get better fights out of it...oh wait, they don't want better fights, they want to gank and run with minimal risk to themselves. Oh well, let 'em whine.
I for the life of me do not understand this negative attitude towards lowsec gankers. Has it ever occurred to you that there are actually people in this game, many in lowsec, who attempt to make a profit pvping? They're often known as pirates, and in order to make a profit, they have to, you know, not lose ships. The goal isn't a good fight (although that's nice), but to either ransom people for isk, or pop them and take the shiny loots. Is it really that hard to grasp why they don't lolhonor fight you in 1v1's?
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/ |
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Luminos
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Posted - 2010.12.16 15:40:00 -
[41]
And that's exactly why nobody with any intelligence goes to lowsec. It's perfectly reasonable that those lowdown dirty pirates want to gank & run. That's what they're supposed to do. And as a brain-weilding hairless monkey, it's my responsibility to counter their gank tactics.
I can either do this with larger gank, which ends in as escalation war of huge carrier groups camped at opposing ends of a gate, or... I can stay the hell out of lowsec. If you're in lowsec, you're either unprobable or looking for a fight. Since my ratting BS is neither of those things, anybody (NPC or otherwise) that wants me to take a jaunt through a lowsec gate can go eat a bag of ****s.
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Karl Axelman
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Posted - 2010.12.16 16:18:00 -
[42]
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Also, you seem to be hunting escalations (and for good reason too, they're often quite lucrative if they go all the way). Keep in mind that these are not exploration dungeons. Nobody can scan them down like they would, say, a Gravimetric site. It functions just like a mission site would, meaning if you don't give them anything to scan down in there, you won't be scanned down.
So you're telling me when I warp to an escalation/mission site, I can't be scanned down unless I give them something to scan down? Can't my ship be scanned no matter where I am? What could I do in a mission site that would make me scanable?
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pinkytabitha177
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Posted - 2010.12.16 16:41:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Dharh It's essentially the only space game around. Everything else is junk.
Alot of EVE players make the mistake of thinking EVE is all about combat PVP when in reality its about a whole lot more. I can't wait for incursions to so we can finally see some group/raid sized PvE content.
I know you said essentially as to cover your rump. But just to inform you for future references
Freelancer is an old microsoft game that they have a ton of mods for like Discovery and this and that on moddb.. It's a mouse-flight fast combat space game that has piracy, mining, etc etc etc. It's just a little... outdated
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Isaac Apylon
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
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Posted - 2010.12.16 16:51:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Isaac Apylon on 16/12/2010 16:52:02
Originally by: Luminos And that's exactly why nobody with any intelligence goes to lowsec. It's perfectly reasonable that those lowdown dirty pirates want to gank & run. That's what they're supposed to do. And as a brain-weilding hairless monkey, it's my responsibility to counter their gank tactics.
I can either do this with larger gank, which ends in as escalation war of huge carrier groups camped at opposing ends of a gate, or... I can stay the hell out of lowsec. If you're in lowsec, you're either unprobable or looking for a fight. Since my ratting BS is neither of those things, anybody (NPC or otherwise) that wants me to take a jaunt through a lowsec gate can go eat a bag of ****s.
It's this sort of two dimensional thinking that keeps people from going into lowsec, not the dangerous nature of lowsec. Spend a while in lowsec and you'll realize that it's really not that dangerous. Yes, there are blobs, but it's not as if they're camping every single gate. Use your map, scout a little (yes, that can be done even with just one account), and you'll avoid most camps.
And fighting back is not the only way to deal with gankers. You can deal with them by avoiding them. Again, it's not hard to do. Fly something agile and fast, and you've already countered most of them. Stay away from lowsec hubs, and you've countered almost all of them. Scout a little before you fly in an expensive ship, and you've countered pretty much all of them. Don't allow pirates/gankers to dictate the terms of the engagement, and you're fine. I've been flying through lowsec since I was a wee little noob, and the only ships I have lost have been from my own stupidity. There are vast swaths of lowsec that are entirely empty. Go have fun there if you want to be alone in space.
Edited for bad typing.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/ |
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.
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Posted - 2010.12.16 17:56:00 -
[45]
Originally by: King Rothgar I agree, low sec missions are worthless. This is especially true for lvl5's. They are impossible to solo in anything but a crazy expensive ship like a carrier or faction fitted marauder/faction BS. Taking such a thing into low sec is just nuts. To attempt a lvl5 will draw the instant wrath of every pirate within 20 jumps, you probably won't kill the first npc before you go down from player action.
I would also stay away from low sec exploration. Those sites are total garbage. You'll never get anything shiny from them, the npc's are a joke and you'll get instantly probed and ganked by pirates as with missions. Sections of low sec also cannot be controlled by a corp/alliance like null sec can. Thus you can't just secure the systems you operate in. This is because no one in low sec is trust worthy and everyone is out for themselves.
Most excellent post, too bad those getting it are likely already benefiting from it.
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Joss56
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.12.16 18:15:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Hari Markkus I don't go to low sec for ISK, in fact I don't play this game to earn ISK. That would make me a very boring person.
Why do you play Eve?
You forgot "In my point of view"
Let me give you mine, you live in a world full of different things and people and this is what make it so wonderfull.
You're just another arrogant that thinks that he's opinions are truth, that whatever someone can say you already have the answer.
And you, you play eve what for?
________________________________________________
"You do realise you live on a globe, right? And that there places outside the USA/UK?"
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Chesty McJubblies
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.12.16 18:41:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Yora Monnis
Originally by: King Rothgar I agree, low sec missions are worthless. This is especially true for lvl5's. They are impossible to solo in anything but a crazy expensive ship like a carrier or faction fitted marauder/faction BS. Taking such a thing into low sec is just nuts. To attempt a lvl5 will draw the instant wrath of every pirate within 20 jumps, you probably won't kill the first npc before you go down from player action.
I would also stay away from low sec exploration. Those sites are total garbage. You'll never get anything shiny from them, the npc's are a joke and you'll get instantly probed and ganked by pirates as with missions. Sections of low sec also cannot be controlled by a corp/alliance like null sec can. Thus you can't just secure the systems you operate in. This is because no one in low sec is trust worthy and everyone is out for themselves.
Have you thought of trying to join the people that live in the systems where there are level 5 missions? I know for a fact that Aeschee has two different groups of people who live there and constantly do level 5 missions in carriers, or run level 4 SOE missions in Navy Ravens and Golems.
Don't think you can go into something like level 5 missions with no friends and you'll have alot more fun at this game, it's an amazing concept.
I'm surprised he hasn't replied by now, but KR is doing exactly what you suggested. Suggestion: Remove the "new topic" button from everywhere apart from the list of topics section within a subforum.
That'd save those with chronic hand/eye coordination some face. |
Lady Ayeipsia
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Posted - 2010.12.16 19:14:00 -
[48]
You missed a great time to go play in low sec. I had a courier run, 5 jumps into a dead-end system in low sec. I went probably a few hours after the patch yesterday. Local was always 10+ people and you know what... not a soul at the gates. I swear everyone was in station still spending their learning skill points. I breezed through no problems at all.
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Spruillo
Gallente Spruillo Corp
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Posted - 2010.12.16 20:08:00 -
[49]
Originally by: King Rothgar I agree, low sec missions are worthless. This is especially true for lvl5's. They are impossible to solo in anything but a crazy expensive ship like a carrier or faction fitted marauder/faction BS. Taking such a thing into low sec is just nuts. To attempt a lvl5 will draw the instant wrath of every pirate within 20 jumps, you probably won't kill the first npc before you go down from player action.
I would also stay away from low sec exploration. Those sites are total garbage. You'll never get anything shiny from them, the npc's are a joke and you'll get instantly probed and ganked by pirates as with missions. Sections of low sec also cannot be controlled by a corp/alliance like null sec can. Thus you can't just secure the systems you operate in. This is because no one in low sec is trust worthy and everyone is out for themselves.
Not true, I occasionally do lv 4's in a crowded losec system full of navy stations with lv 4 and lv 5 agents never been probed out yet and I go do something else when the probes come out. Most missions dont even send me out-system when they do it's just 1 jump and I make about 40% more lp than same mission in hisec
And the same system is often full of lv 5 runners in carriers and dreads and pirates/pvper ignore them mostly it's not as easy as youd think to ambush a mission especially when they do it as a corp and know what they are doing
And you know soem best sites ive found for exploration is border systems full of traffic and campers sometimes the probes come out usually not and I just park cloaky alt off complex gate anyway and take care of business Last time some1 probed down my site and gave me trouble it wasnt even pies it was another explorer and I shot 2 of the jackasses ships up with my legion Losec is fine stop whining
Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object
When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed.
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Cartheron Crust
Spais Of The Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.16 20:24:00 -
[50]
Spruillo check out 95% of Rothgar's last posts. They are either about easily doing level 5's in a carrier and sometimes a marauder for lolz or about the LP gained from doing said missions. |
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Moneyhungryhoe
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Posted - 2010.12.16 21:33:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Spruillo
Losec is fine stop whining
No it isn't. Compare it to 0.0 lowsec is less isk and more risk. Am I right or am I right?
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Derekian
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.12.16 22:22:00 -
[52]
You underestimate low sec.
Low sec is insanely high return, reaching 250-350m isk/hour, sometimes only from LP alone.
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Moneyhungryhoe
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Posted - 2010.12.16 22:30:00 -
[53]
That is possible, (probably with 4 accounts) but also possible in WH and 0.0.
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Derekian
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.12.16 22:38:00 -
[54]
Nah. One ship One account. Aint even need scouts, relatively risk free. People will probably tell one day. Once the items they are chugging out becomes virtually unprofitable to chug out anymore.
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Swidgen
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Posted - 2010.12.16 23:20:00 -
[55]
Originally by: 5nipe For example: unprobable Legion alt with Warfare processor is the dream of any gate campers.
Can you explain this a little bit more? I assume that most people talk about unprobable Tengus because most people are Caldari and that's their T3 of choice. Is the Legion really worse in its unprobable fits? |
Luminos
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Posted - 2010.12.17 02:43:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Isaac Apylon And fighting back is not the only way to deal with gankers. You can deal with them by avoiding them.
That's my point really. I can avoid pirates/gankers easily and profitably by just staying out of their 'zone' of the game. What should entice me to bother with the extra gameplay baggage that lowsec brings, if what I'm aiming for is Isk/hour (possibly to fund lowsec roams even)?
Don't take my opinion the wrong way though; I'd like to see lowsec repopulated. But just as people looked to optimize their skill plan, I look at the cost/benefit of lowsec and can't see any reason to go there. Scouting gates, scanner spamming, finding a deserted system to ship spin in, docking up (and then playing station games) when people enter local... why bother? I can play semi-afk in highsec for almost the same benefit income-wise. And if I do slip up and start losing ships, lowsec can very quickly become more risky and less profitable than highsec.
If you've got your cloaky, unprobable ship set up or you're in a lowsec fleet roam, go have fun. But for anybody looking to 'make a living'? Stay the hell out of lowsec.
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Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
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Posted - 2010.12.17 04:46:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Isaac Apylon Edited by: Isaac Apylon on 16/12/2010 16:52:02
Originally by: Luminos And that's exactly why nobody with any intelligence goes to lowsec. It's perfectly reasonable that those lowdown dirty pirates want to gank & run. That's what they're supposed to do. And as a brain-weilding hairless monkey, it's my responsibility to counter their gank tactics.
I can either do this with larger gank, which ends in as escalation war of huge carrier groups camped at opposing ends of a gate, or... I can stay the hell out of lowsec. If you're in lowsec, you're either unprobable or looking for a fight. Since my ratting BS is neither of those things, anybody (NPC or otherwise) that wants me to take a jaunt through a lowsec gate can go eat a bag of ****s.
It's this sort of two dimensional thinking that keeps people from going into lowsec, not the dangerous nature of lowsec. Spend a while in lowsec and you'll realize that it's really not that dangerous. Yes, there are blobs, but it's not as if they're camping every single gate. Use your map, scout a little (yes, that can be done even with just one account), and you'll avoid most camps.
And fighting back is not the only way to deal with gankers. You can deal with them by avoiding them. Again, it's not hard to do. Fly something agile and fast, and you've already countered most of them. Stay away from lowsec hubs, and you've countered almost all of them. Scout a little before you fly in an expensive ship, and you've countered pretty much all of them. Don't allow pirates/gankers to dictate the terms of the engagement, and you're fine. I've been flying through lowsec since I was a wee little noob, and the only ships I have lost have been from my own stupidity. There are vast swaths of lowsec that are entirely empty. Go have fun there if you want to be alone in space.
Edited for bad typing.
And then you have those folks saddled with agents that want to dump them squarely into the middle of said pirate hubs...now how would YOU go about a mission where the encounter's in, say, Rancer?
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Rip Minner
Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.17 07:57:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Rip Minner on 17/12/2010 08:02:24
Originally by: Luminos And that's exactly why nobody with any intelligence goes to lowsec. It's perfectly reasonable that those lowdown dirty pirates want to gank & run. That's what they're supposed to do. And as a brain-weilding hairless monkey, it's my responsibility to counter their gank tactics.
I can either do this with larger gank, which ends in as escalation war of huge carrier groups camped at opposing ends of a gate, or... I can stay the hell out of lowsec. If you're in lowsec, you're either unprobable or looking for a fight. Since my ratting BS is neither of those things, anybody (NPC or otherwise) that wants me to take a jaunt through a lowsec gate can go eat a bag of ****s.
I second this! This is also what I belive the point of the OP was. The only thing worth going to low sec for (PVE) wise is exploration. So it has always been from my point of view WTF is the point of puting level 5's into low sec only? Dont feed me that crap of risk Vers reward ether. You have to have a nice pimp ride or lots of friends to do level 5's in high sec were no Caps can be used on them. In the case of the Pimp ride your now a Target even in High sec. In the case of group play is that not what CCP is promoting? As a last note I have lost more ships and more isk worth of ships in High sec then I ever have in low sec. That was after fig out how you need to move though low sec. Still I dont bother to mine or mission there.
Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.12.17 08:38:00 -
[59]
It's quite simple.
Hi sec "sells" safety and trade hubs
0.0 "sells" fully unlocked game, no sec status reduction PvP, moon goo, upgradeable systems, top resources...
WHs "sell" 0.0 alike environment yet protected against mega alliances, high reward PvE, top resources.
Low sec sells FW and some exploration. That's it. Lame roids, lame moons, gate guns, sec status loss. PvE could be good but only if you are a resident (ie randoms have an hard time playing independently like in hi sec).
To make low sec worthwhile CCP need to put some more juicy meat for sale in there. I.e. some component or material that can exclusively be gotten in low sec and nowhere else. That stuff must also be distributed over many systems, to prevent some megacorp from locking whole constellations down.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Lady Thanatos
Nomadic Shadows
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Posted - 2010.12.17 10:29:00 -
[60]
As one of those that live in low-sec and make low-sec my home (Not to mention confined to low-sec ). There is an old saying that I would love to bring up in this topic; 'if you can't beat em, join em.'
With that in mind, I found one of the best ways to prepare myself for the occasional complex site I may do (when there aren't many targets in my area), is to be a pirate. There is no better way to understand the mechanics of trying to avoid being killed than being the one attempting to get the kill.
Someone stated in a previous post that us pirates do risk ships, and yes my corp, myself, and those affiliated with us try to make a profit from our PVP enterprise (and are for the most part very successful).
In every ecosystem there is a predator and prey relationship, if there is too much prey the stupid and ignorant rule. If there are too many predators, then there is not enough prey to go around and the predators die out (or move on).
There is isk in low-sec, granted you need the correct ship fitting, knowledge, and wits in order to get that isk. However, once you do gain these skills you will find that it is a certain lifestyle choice to make in eve. It is not the constant isk flow so many high-sec mission runners and 0.0 bears desire. Instead it is more sporadic, but exciting, and I would venture to say, more dangerous.
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