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What griefer acts are you guys tired of?

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Subjorn	Posted - 2010.10.15 14:05:00 - [1] I understand that space is lawless. However this is a game and it is meant to be fun. I have a couple things I just hate and irratate me to no end. Please feel free to post yours. These items are just things that I think CCP could easily change and would do a world of good for the playerbase and only the griefers would be mad about. And really who cares about them? 1.You're doing missions and some random person warps in and starts salvaging your wrecks. Can we at least make it where they go red so I can attack them for stealing? At this point my only options are to let them steal my salvage or blow it up. I blow it up. 2.Someone invites a player to fleet up just so they can destroy their ship without concord attacking them. Can we not get at least a popup when someone takes a hostile action towards you that allows you to leave fleet instantly so that concord can do their job and pop these griefers. This happened to a corp mate when another corp mate invited him to go mining and he lost a retriver. 3.WarDecs in high sec, I like the idea behind wardecs but if players choose to start a corp in high sec they are wanting to focus on other aspects of the game not PVP. I'm not saying get rid of wardecs in high sec but what I am asking is that if someone wnats to wardec a high sec corp that the corp being dec'd must accept it or it doesn't happen. A newbie corp can be griefed endlessly by people. Eve online is an amazing game but there is a point where you let the natives go wild to the point of spoilin the game play for others. In all things moderation is a good idea and currently the griefers are being allowed to run rampant with the full support of CCP.. I know none of this will ever change but I needed to get it off my chest TL;DR - QQ
Chingyz Caldari Reverse Psychology. BAT PHONE	Posted - 2010.10.15 14:10:00 - [2] Trolls and whiners, you don't do either very well
Tigobitty Caldari Australian Mining and industry Corp Intergalactic Exports Group	Posted - 2010.10.15 14:15:00 - [3] ds! -------------------- "A good skirmish is one you can live to fly away from... a Great skirmish is on where you can still use your ship afterwards.."
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.10.15 14:21:00 - [4] Originally by: Subjorn 1.You're doing missions and some random person warps in and starts salvaging your wrecks. Can we at least make it where they go red so I can attack them for stealing? At this point my only options are to let them steal my salvage or blow it up. I blow it up. Because allowing miners to attack canflippers was such a brilliant idea in the past, amirite ? If such a guy comes into your mission, what you should do is offer him a "50-50 split" contract, where he follows you around (you provide the bookmark, no need for scanning) and you split the earnings 50-50. Chat his ears off POLITELY. Ask him to be your friend. Be cheerful. With a bit of luck, he'll be so creeped out he won't ever come into your mission again. Or, you know, just ignore him - who the bloody heck bothers with loot and salvage nowadays anyway ? Just speed-run your missions. That, or wait for when the Noctis comes around. You can tractor beam wrecks, he can't. Quote: 2.Someone invites a player to fleet up just so they can destroy their ship without concord attacking them. Can we not get at least a popup when someone takes a hostile action towards you that allows you to leave fleet instantly so that concord can do their job and pop these griefers. This happened to a corp mate when another corp mate invited him to go mining and he lost a retriver. Failure to understand game mechanics and/or read ancient patchnotes FTW. The "lofty scam" was rendered impossible quite a while ago. JUST by fleeting up and nothing else it is IMPOSSIBLE to get into a position where the other player can blow you up without CONCORD showing up. If it's still somehow possible, it's a bug/exploit and that guy should ask for GM assistance. I'm betting that it's not a bug, but simple failure to understand what's going on. There has to be quite a bit of extra weird activity on YOUR part for them to be able to do any of that. Quote: 3.WarDecs in high sec, I like the idea behind wardecs but if players choose to start a corp in high sec they are wanting to focus on other aspects of the game not PVP. I'm not saying get rid of wardecs in high sec but what I am asking is that if someone wnats to wardec a high sec corp that the corp being dec'd must accept it or it doesn't happen. A newbie corp can be griefed endlessly by people. That's what you have NPC corps for. Want a player corp ? Learn to deal with wardecs. It's not even difficult. Hell, my corp is full of ruttin' idlers, carebears and newbies almost exclusively, yet we've still survived enough wardecs over the past 4 years (even had fun with some of them). Don't like wardecs ? Stay in the shallow end of the pool in a NPC corp. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Tranka Verrane Perkone	Posted - 2010.10.15 14:30:00 - [5] Edited by: Tranka Verrane on 15/10/2010 14:32:32 Akita beat me to it. Originally by: Subjorn 1.You're doing missions and some random person warps in and starts salvaging your wrecks. Can we at least make it where they go red so I can attack them for stealing? At this point my only options are to let them steal my salvage or blow it up. I blow it up. Salvaging wrecks is a valid career choice, nothing wrong with it. Many players do not choose to salvage (especially now they have decreased in price so much) and if you do you are in competition with anyone else for it. The loot is yours, by dint of creating the wreck, but something else needs to be done before that wreck turns into salvage. If they changed this mechanic now they would cut players out of the game who've legitimately made it their path of choice. You already have an advantage in being able to tractor and know exactly where they are that means you have the edge over your competitors. Quote: 2.Someone invites a player to fleet up just so they can destroy their ship without concord attacking them. Can we not get at least a popup when someone takes a hostile action towards you that allows you to leave fleet instantly so that concord can do their job and pop these griefers. This happened to a corp mate when another corp mate invited him to go mining and he lost a retriver. Learn game mechanics. they don't work like that. He did something else that made him able to be shot, and you don't know it because you've heard it third hand. Quote: 3.WarDecs in high sec, I like the idea behind wardecs but if players choose to start a corp in high sec they are wanting to focus on other aspects of the game not PVP. I'm not saying get rid of wardecs in high sec but what I am asking is that if someone wnats to wardec a high sec corp that the corp being dec'd must accept it or it doesn't happen. A newbie corp can be griefed endlessly by people. Wardecs in hisec are a legitimate way of: 1: Fighting friends without interference from those who don't respect rules of engagement that you have agreed upon. 2: Removing people you don't like, for whatever reason, from where you have to interact with them. 3: Protecting valuable resources. If you can't deal with the above then you shouldn't be playing Eve. On the other hand they are also used just to grief those too weak to defend themselves, and often chase them out of the game. Personally I would agree with that side of your argument, and advocate more geographically limited wardecs to limit such casual douchebaggery (each region a wardec applies to counting as a separate war, for instance, with the commensurate cost increase). __________________________________________________ Player Since 2005 Over 4000 hours logged For ingame help and advice join channel 'Mentors'.
gfldex	Posted - 2010.10.15 14:32:00 - [6] If that is all you have to complain about you never got griefed. Are you posting with your main?
Slanith	Posted - 2010.10.15 14:49:00 - [7] Edited by: Slanith on 15/10/2010 14:54:51 No this is my main. Originally by: Akita T Because allowing miners to attack canflippers was such a brilliant idea in the past, amirite ? If such a guy comes into your mission, what you should do is offer him a "50-50 split" contract, where he follows you around (you provide the bookmark, no need for scanning) and you split the earnings 50-50. Chat his ears off POLITELY. Ask him to be your friend. Be cheerful. With a bit of luck, he'll be so creeped out he won't ever come into your mission again. Or, you know, just ignore him - who the bloody heck bothers with loot and salvage nowadays anyway ? Just speed-run your missions. That, or wait for when the Noctis comes around. You can tractor beam wrecks, he can't. Really you are saying I should share with him after I did all the work. In certain missions the salvage is worth more than the mission itself also I want the salvage for production. Can flippers want to be attacked and want to grief others but last time I checked a Hulk wasn't a combat ship. Did something change lastnight? Quote: 2.Failure to understand game mechanics and/or read ancient patchnotes FTW. The "lofty scam" was rendered impossible quite a while ago. JUST by fleeting up and nothing else it is IMPOSSIBLE to get into a position where the other player can blow you up without CONCORD showing up. If it's still somehow possible, it's a bug/exploit and that guy should ask for GM assistance. I'm betting that it's not a bug, but simple failure to understand what's going on. There has to be quite a bit of extra weird activity on YOUR part for them to be able to do any of that. This is still happening and is being done by pilot CocaColaMiner as recently as last week to multiple pilots. Reading Comprehension FTL. This didn't happen to me. Quote: 3.That's what you have NPC corps for. Want a player corp ? Learn to deal with wardecs. It's not even difficult. Hell, my corp is full of ruttin' idlers, carebears and newbies almost exclusively, yet we've still survived enough wardecs over the past 4 years (even had fun with some of them). Don't like wardecs ? Stay in the shallow end of the pool in a NPC corp. . High sec is the shhallow end of the pool. Forced PvP has never been a good idea in a game and never will, the game devs didn't make this game so they could feel good about themselves. They made this game to sell it get a player base and make money. People seem to forget that. The problem is that if they altered a few things that player base would grow, they would make more money, hire more people and be able make more content for us. ___ Quote: You know what kind of griefing I'm tired of ? The one chipping at your sanity, eroding any leftover bits of trust in mankind you might have still had. Stuff like "minerals from ore I mine myself is free, therefore worthless or at least worth less than the minerals on the market"... or "I got those datacores through research, I can totally make a sweet profit on invention, since those datacores were free therefore worthless"... or "waah, waah, why is the PLEX so expensive" or even "waah, you damn dirty apes, what have you done to my technetium". That's the "griefing" I'm sick and tired of. Oh, and let's not forget anything containing the words "macro", "bot" or "microtransaction". And "AFK" (especially in the "AFK cloaker" construct). Plus occasionally "Bacon". Mmmmm Bacon
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.10.15 14:59:00 - [8] Edited by: Akita T on 15/10/2010 15:05:34 Originally by: Slanith Really you are saying I should share with him after I did all the work. Yes. Either share with him willingly or do it faster than he does it. He has to scan for you first. You have the advantage there. Why aren't you using it ? Quote: Can flippers want to be attacked and want to grief others but last time I checked a Hulk wasn't a combat ship. Did something change lastnight? And a PvE-fit boat is no PvP ship either. Also, a Hulk or even a bloody Badger can be fit to become a half-decent combat craft. Hulk even moreso, thanks to the ample drone bay and shield resists bonus. Your point being ? Quote: This is still happening and is being done by pilot CocaColaMiner as recently as last week to multiple pilots. Reading Comprehension FTL. This didn't happen to me. It was the generic plural "you", not the actual, singular you-Slanith. But anyway... ...if you are CONVINCED this guy is doing something fishy, feel free to petition him. The GMs will probably set you straight. Not the first couple of them though, they seem to have a lot of newer GMs that know just as much about game mechanics as a half-a-year-old newbie. Quote: High sec is the shallow end of the pool. Ok, ok, you're right. Highsec is the shallow end of the pool. Also, the end of the pool where the kiddie pool is located. The one with ankle-deep water. NPC corps is that ankle-deep kiddie pool. Stay in it if you're afraid of the shallow end. God forbid you even think about the deep end then. Quote: Forced PvP has never been a good idea in a game and never will Non-consensual PvP was one of the few the main ideas behind EVE, the one thing that really set it apart from other games. That, and full looting, and the economy model. If you truly believe what I just quoted, EVE is certainly NOT the game for you. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Louis deGuerre Gallente Amicus Morte Dead Muppets	Posted - 2010.10.15 15:00:00 - [9] Edited by: Louis deGuerre on 15/10/2010 15:02:56 Originally by: AFK Cloaker AFK Cloaking for days on end. Gets old pretty fast. Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
Abbot Laarkin Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks	Posted - 2010.10.15 15:02:00 - [10] Akita pretty much covered it. But in relation to point 2.... "2.Someone invites a player to fleet up just so they can destroy their ship without concord attacking them. Can we not get at least a popup when someone takes a hostile action towards you that allows you to leave fleet instantly so that concord can do their job and pop these griefers. This happened to a corp mate when another corp mate invited him to go mining and he lost a retriver. " You should perhaps learn to check potential corp mates a little more thoroughly. Do you have some form of recruitment vetting procedures in place? If so they appear to of failed this time, this happens. It's not the end of the world. Eve is what it is, there are many pitfalls for the unwary.....Love this game ---- Originally by: Sir Carnage Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37? I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12

Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.10.15 15:09:00 - [11] How the bloody hell did I miss the "corpmate" part the first time around ? Brilliant ! _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Dian'h Might Minmatar Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated	Posted - 2010.10.15 15:12:00 - [12] Akita said just about everything I was going to say except for this: Most of those things mentioned in the OP are exactly the reasons that me, and the majority of my friends play eve. If you want an MMO where you're safe all the time, go play one of the hundreds of other MMOs that don't allow the things you complain about. One other point: Every single one of the mechanics that allow you to be "griefed" work both ways. You can use those very same mechanics to protect yourself and/or retaliate against a "griefer". - - - Dian'h Might - C&Ps resident "internet kleptomaniac"
Bernard Schuyler	Posted - 2010.10.15 15:14:00 - [13] Originally by: Subjorn I understand that space is lawless. However this is a game and it is meant to be fun. I have a couple things I just hate and irratate me to no end. Please feel free to post yours. These items are just things that I think CCP could easily change and would do a world of good for the playerbase and only the griefers would be mad about. And really who cares about them? 1.You're doing missions and some random person warps in and starts salvaging your wrecks. Can we at least make it where they go red so I can attack them for stealing? At this point my only options are to let them steal my salvage or blow it up. I blow it up. 2.Someone invites a player to fleet up just so they can destroy their ship without concord attacking them. Can we not get at least a popup when someone takes a hostile action towards you that allows you to leave fleet instantly so that concord can do their job and pop these griefers. This happened to a corp mate when another corp mate invited him to go mining and he lost a retriver. 3.WarDecs in high sec, I like the idea behind wardecs but if players choose to start a corp in high sec they are wanting to focus on other aspects of the game not PVP. I'm not saying get rid of wardecs in high sec but what I am asking is that if someone wnats to wardec a high sec corp that the corp being dec'd must accept it or it doesn't happen. A newbie corp can be griefed endlessly by people. Eve online is an amazing game but there is a point where you let the natives go wild to the point of spoilin the game play for others. In all things moderation is a good idea and currently the griefers are being allowed to run rampant with the full support of CCP.. I know none of this will ever change but I needed to get it off my chest TL;DR - QQ I will answer your question civilly. The problem that I have with your list is you are picking on NON-Griefer things. 1) They have explicitly stated that Space Law is that Salvage is not owned. Only the loot. It isn't griefing. 2) You might as well just ask them to disallow fleet kills. CONCORDING a ship for not blowing up a Fleeted member seems... pointless. Also, there is a pop up warning when you join a fleet about getting shot at. 3) The ONLY point of a WarDec is being able to attack people in High Sec. You want to remove wardecs altogether? There may be some legit griefing practices that are just not really fun for anyone, but you are targetting the wrong mechanics.
Slanith	Posted - 2010.10.15 15:14:00 - [14] Quote: 2.Learn game mechanics. they don't work like that. He did something else that made him able to be shot, and you don't know it because you've heard it third hand. I'll give you that, 3rd hand is not often the best source of details on a given situation, I will do some testing tonight to see if I can duplicate it using both my accounts. If I find that it's still able to be done then i'll report it as it appears to not the allowed by CCP. Which is good to hear. Quote: 1: Fighting friends without interference from those who don't respect rules of engagement that you have agreed upon. 2: Removing people you don't like, for whatever reason, from where you have to interact with them. 3: Protecting valuable resources. With my idea you can still war your friends, removing people you don't like and protecting valuable resources is more of a lowsec situation than a high. Don't get me wrong I like wardecs I just don't like them in high sec. Quote: If you can't deal with the above then you shouldn't be playing Eve. On the other hand they are also used just to grief those too weak to defend themselves, and often chase them out of the game. Personally I would agree with that side of your argument, and advocate more geographically limited wardecs to limit such casual douchebaggery (each region a wardec applies to counting as a separate war, for instance, with the commensurate cost increase). Like I said before I like WarDecs. I just think there has to be a solution to the ability of people being able to chase nw players out of the game. An NPC corp can't offer pilots the same advantages as a player ran corpoeration. In most settings a lower student to teach ratio is better to a student learning. Honestly having to check local , making safe spots, changing loadouts on your normal ship layout to a pvp fit and watching your back constantly is an amazing feeling that no other MMO on the market can give you. There is no way i'll leave this game.
Jint Hikaru OffWorld Exploration Inc	Posted - 2010.10.15 15:22:00 - [15] My one would be - People who are too lazy to figure hout how to avoid or deal with situations in the game. So much so that all they can do is whine on the forums and try to get valid game mechanics changed to suit themselves without a thought for the affect on the Eve as a whole. 1. I presume you are in a mission hub, because the agent is the highest quality and you can minmax your isk/hour. You are also not salvaging as you go because fitting a salvager means you might loose some DPS and you then cant complete the mission fast enough. Sheesh, many ways to avoid ninjas... learn and adapt! 2. A fleet mate cant kill you. Your corp mate who this happened to did not to proper checks on whoever it was they invited into their corp. 3. This again. Eve is a PVP game.... deal with it. Who ever heard of agreeing to go to war! ------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------
Dasubervixen	Posted - 2010.10.15 15:27:00 - [16] Griefing? In EvE? There is no such thing as griefing in EvE. Unless you're being picked on by the same person/s over and over again. For no reason other then harassment. Its not griefing. You whiners need to get over thinking every little thing that you don't like is griefing. Because its not. Anything done within the rules of the game is NOT griefing. Get over it.
gfldex	Posted - 2010.10.15 15:29:00 - [17] There seams to be much confusion what grief play really is. I will bring a few examples to show you that you never got griefed in your playtime. 1) Follow Subjorn around from local to local with the help of locator agents. Post a link to this thread and point out what a whiny wimp he is in local chat. 2) Contact the CEO of Subjorn and advice him to be really really careful with hangar and wallet access because of a corp theft commited by Subjorn with an alt char. 3) Scan down Subjorn's missions and bump him out of weapon range. Works really well if Subjorn happens to fly a domi. 3a) If Subjorn happens to be in Rescue the Girl, join him with a sniper fit Apoc and destroy the station thingy. If he is able to tank the full spawn, destroy the can with the girl. 3b) Steal any mission object you can get hold of from Subjorn's mission and auction them to the general public. Don't forget to post a link to that contract in local chat and tell the locals where that item came from. 4) Infrom local chat about Subjorn's RL. Mention questional sexual choices, unfavourable body conditions, etc. pp. . Lie has hard as you can. 5) Try to learn anything you can about Sobjorn's out of game life and use it to his disadvantage. (Some goons wrote a latter to the boss of a former bob member. That guy nearly lost his job.) *) Do anything that will make Subjorn feel miserable. Keep in mind that you target his _feelings_ not his ISK/ships/reputation.
Abbot Laarkin Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks	Posted - 2010.10.15 15:43:00 - [18] Originally by: Akita T How the bloody hell did I miss the "corpmate" part the first time around ? Brilliant ! Was surprised you did. Possibly you are fatigued / drunk / stoned / far too busy to care / losing your touch.... (delete as appropriate) Oh Mr. OP....As to CCP getting more subs leading to more content. Personally I consider non-consensual PvP to be THE content in Eve. Everything else is just shiny, I like shiny as much as the next person, but not as much as I like PvP (in whatever form it takes). Griefing is a term that is both incorrectly used, and dramatically overused. None of the situations as you describe them are "griefing". The mechanics are there for everyone to see, and for everyone to learn. Each of your examples are avoidable if you (the generic "you" ofc.) take the time and trouble to learn how. God knows the rest of us had to. Peace. ---- Originally by: Sir Carnage Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37? I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
Slanith	Posted - 2010.10.15 15:55:00 - [19] Originally by: gfldex There seams to be much confusion what grief play really is. I will bring a few examples to show you that you never got griefed in your playtime. 1) Follow Subjorn around from local to local with the help of locator agents. Post a link to this thread and point out what a whiny wimp he is in local chat. 2) Contact the CEO of Subjorn and advice him to be really really careful with hangar and wallet access because of a corp theft commited by Subjorn with an alt char. 3) Scan down Subjorn's missions and bump him out of weapon range. Works really well if Subjorn happens to fly a domi. 3a) If Subjorn happens to be in Rescue the Girl, join him with a sniper fit Apoc and destroy the station thingy. If he is able to tank the full spawn, destroy the can with the girl. 3b) Steal any mission object you can get hold of from Subjorn's mission and auction them to the general public. Don't forget to post a link to that contract in local chat and tell the locals where that item came from. 4) Infrom local chat about Subjorn's RL. Mention questional sexual choices, unfavourable body conditions, etc. pp. . Lie has hard as you can. 5) Try to learn anything you can about Sobjorn's out of game life and use it to his disadvantage. (Some goons wrote a latter to the boss of a former bob member. That guy nearly lost his job.) ) Do anything that will make Subjorn feel miserable. Keep in mind that you target his _feelings_ not his ISK/ships/reputation. ] You sir are epic, hats off thats some impressive stuff there. salute* Think of me as middle management and the post is a meeting with upper management. I get constant complaints and you want to keep new people in the game happy and the only option is to either tell them to man up or quit and I just don't think thats fair to new players. There have been some very impressive ideas and solutions to said problems. The salvage solution as simple as it is a perfect way to avoid my only problem with certain players which is the whole salvage thing. And as for the post about CocaColaMiner we weren't warned about him until after he joined and the 24 hour timer is what allowed him to not be kicked immediatly. Most people who start this game don't know that you shouldn't trust anyone. This game is likely the most ruthless game on the market and that is one of the things that has drawn me to playing it for so long. Anyways can't wait to see whats next that last post was EPIC.
De'Veldrin Minmatar CareBears on Fire The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.10.15 16:11:00 - [20] Originally by: gfldex 5) Try to learn anything you can about Sobjorn's out of game life and use it to his disadvantage. (Some goons wrote a letter to the boss of a former bob member. That guy nearly lost his job.) Though I would avoid doing this if you live in the US. We're so sue happy that you'd probably wind up slapped with a defamation of character and mental suffering suit so large, your grandchildren would still be paying it off. I'm just saying. --Vel

Slanith	Posted - 2010.10.15 16:20:00 - [21] Originally by: De'Veldrin Originally by: gfldex 5) Though I would avoid doing this if you live in the US. We're so sue happy that you'd probably wind up slapped with a defamation of character and mental suffering suit so large, your grandchildren would still be paying it off. I'm sure you could get away with this in the U.S, most people who would do this likely don't have money anyway and you can't get blood from a stone, but you can from a stoner.
Poastin Tart	Posted - 2010.10.15 16:24:00 - [22] Originally by: De'Veldrin Originally by: gfldex 5) Try to learn anything you can about Sobjorn's out of game life and use it to his disadvantage. (Some goons wrote a letter to the boss of a former bob member. That guy nearly lost his job.) Though I would avoid doing this if you live in the US. We're so sue happy that you'd probably wind up slapped with a defamation of character and mental suffering suit so large, your grandchildren would still be paying it off. I'm just saying. Divorce attourney here, what litigation am I missing out on?
De'Veldrin Minmatar CareBears on Fire The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.10.15 17:02:00 - [23] Originally by: Poastin Tart Originally by: De'Veldrin Originally by: gfldex 5) Try to learn anything you can about Sobjorn's out of game life and use it to his disadvantage. (Some goons wrote a letter to the boss of a former bob member. That guy nearly lost his job.) Though I would avoid doing this if you live in the US. We're so sue happy that you'd probably wind up slapped with a defamation of character and mental suffering suit so large, your grandchildren would still be paying it off. I'm just saying. Divorce attourney here, what litigation am I missing out on? Have you considered expanding into the untapped but potentially lucrative field of mental anguish due to in-game griefing claims? COuld be a money spinner. Also could flop over on its back like a dead animal in the desert, but there you go. --Vel
Slanith	Posted - 2010.10.15 17:07:00 - [24] LOL start having ambulane chasers in EVE, someone bumps your ship outside of station and you file a property damage and bodily injury claim. Since most people have insurance on the ships that would be kind of funny. "When he slammed into my port thrusters in his Domi I got me some whip lashin!"
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.10.15 17:53:00 - [25] Originally by: Subjorn 1.You're doing missions and some random person warps in and starts salvaging your wrecks. Can we at least make it where they go red so I can attack them for stealing? At this point my only options are to let them steal my salvage or blow it up. I blow it up. I just abandon all wrecks, and let them have whatever they want. The griefers leave because there are no tears, and those that really need the ISK are grateful. I also don't mission for corps with agents in busy systems. I don't see ninjas often (about twice a year). Quote: 2.Someone invites a player to fleet up just so they can destroy their ship without concord attacking them. Next time you join a fleet, read the pop-up. Being in a fleet does not allow you to shoot non-corp members. Quote: 3.WarDecs in high sec, I like the idea behind wardecs but if players choose to start a corp in high sec they are wanting to focus on other aspects of the game not PVP. Join an alliance. Even a small casual alliance can usually field a half dozen people willing to station camp griefers whenever they login. In my experience, the griefers soon retract the wardec if there are no tears, and more losses than gains.
Ren Nekk Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.10.15 18:15:00 - [26] Wow you guys must really love posting. Trolls got it easy these days.
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.15 19:20:00 - [27] Originally by: Subjorn 1.You're doing missions and some random person warps in and starts salvaging your wrecks. Wel that's hardly griefing, it's a very minor annoyance. Originally by: Subjorn 2.Someone invites a player to fleet up just so they can destroy their ship without concord attacking them. Ehm afaik it doesn't work that way (anymore). Originally by: Subjorn 3.WarDecs in high sec I agree on this one. It's very hard to believe that the police will look the other way for 20 cents if you want to kill people in their "zone".
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.10.16 05:34:00 - [28] Originally by: Akita T How the bloody hell did I miss the "corpmate" part the first time around ? Brilliant ! because these posts are so generic and similar that you don't fully read them. happens pretty often to me these days. and also that is all normal gameplay nothing like Griefing. anything I could say to help has already been said so good luck and have fun, also fly safe-ish
Dian'h Might Minmatar Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated	Posted - 2010.10.16 05:49:00 - [29] Originally by: Ren Nekk Wow you guys must really love posting. Trolls got it easy these days. Pretty sure most of the responders are full aware that he's trolling. However, new players also read this forum so might as well respond to it for their benefit. - - - Dian'h Might - C&Ps resident "internet kleptomaniac"
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.10.16 07:01:00 - [30] Originally by: Dian'h Might Originally by: Ren Nekk Wow you guys must really love posting. Trolls got it easy these days. Pretty sure most of the responders are full aware that he's trolling. However, new players also read this forum so might as well respond to it for their benefit. Pretty much this, although it is hard to tell a clueless person from a troll at times. It is all about information control. If you just ignore all possible trolls, the information on the issue is controlled entirely by the troll. It can cause a lot of damage and spread misconceptions, since not all the readers will be able to tell the difference between accurate information and trolling/misinformation.

Cyprus Black Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2010.10.16 09:31:00 - [31] I'll be happy to oblige and go red so you can shoot me. Then I can come back in a combat ship and hold you ransom. http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2084/lolveur2.gif
Slade Trillgon Endless Possibilities Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.16 16:57:00 - [32] Originally by: Akita T Quote: High sec is the shallow end of the pool. Ok, ok, you're right. Highsec is the shallow end of the pool. Also, the end of the pool where the kiddie pool is located. The one with ankle-deep water. NPC corps is that ankle-deep kiddie pool. Stay in it if you're afraid of the shallow end. God forbid you even think about the deep end then. I would also like the add that in most pools with kiddie pools, most saves will occur there. The point of the kiddie pool is to learn the mechanics of swimming not to be sheltered from the big pool Slade :Signature Temporarily Disabled:
Mal Lokrano Gallente The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.10.16 18:13:00 - [33] I am not tired of any of them. Is it annoying? Sure, but like you mention right at the beginning of your post space is lawless. Concord only provides punishment, not protection. It is the job of the player to protect them self and their corp. Besides, this game was built for the people who like ****ing in other's Cheerios . _____ When going to a party with wine, women, and song. Always ascertain the vintage of the first two. Your friendly neighborhood pod liberator.
Vadania Amastacia Caldari Blacklight Incorporated Broken Chains Alliance	Posted - 2010.10.16 18:34:00 - [34] Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) Any questions?
Conrad Makbure Gallente Raptor Navy	Posted - 2010.10.17 04:15:00 - [35] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 15/10/2010 14:32:39 Originally by: Subjorn 1.You're doing missions and some random person warps in and starts salvaging your wrecks. Can we at least make it where they go red so I can attack them for stealing? At this point my only options are to let them steal my salvage or blow it up. I blow it up. Because allowing miners to attack canflippers was such a brilliant idea in the past, amirite ? If such a guy comes into your mission, what you should do is offer him a "50-50 split" contract, where he follows you around (you provide the bookmark, no need for scanning) and you split the earnings 50-50. Chat his ears off POLITELY. Ask him to be your friend. Be cheerful. With a bit of luck, he'll be so creeped out he won't ever come into your mission again. Or, you know, just ignore him - who the bloody heck bothers with loot and salvage nowadays anyway ? Just speed-run your missions. That, or wait for when the Noctis comes around. You can tractor beam wrecks, he can't. HavenÆt been around to see can flippers turn red in the past, but if I just finish a level 4 solo mission and some ******* warps in and starts salvaging my stuff, the last thing IÆm going to do is be ôpoliteö and offer him a 50/50 split. Like hell I will, especially if I did all the work??? Offer him something? Are you high?? I can probably get 10+ armor plates from the salvage of a level 4 mission. No, IÆd rather blow him up if I can get away with it, but I canÆt. IÆm inclined to agree with the OP here to some extent. Then again, IÆve yet to actually experience someone warp into one of my mission areas. -Makbure Raptor Navy
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.10.17 04:55:00 - [36] Edited by: Akita T on 17/10/2010 05:03:54 If he touches any of your loot, you CAN shoot him. But if he only salvages the wrecks... well... you HAVEN'T done all the work, otherwise he would be unable to salvage them... as there would be no wrecks TO salvage. Besides, 10-20 armor plates, that's like, what, 2.5-5 mil ISK ? You make that much shooting a few more NPC battleships. Since sized rigs were introduced, salvage prices have gone down drastically, and since the "recent" loot makeup adjustment, loot value has also dropped drastically. If you don't have somebody doing the looting and salvaging for you (be it a less-skilled alt, or a relative newbish corpmate or whatnot), and if you're serious about mission-running but you're not running them in a marauder (to loot and salvage while you run the mission), then in most cases you'd probably be better off ignoring wrecks altogether and speed-running L4s back-to-back instead. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Chiana Moro Dark Shadow Industries Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.10.17 05:18:00 - [37] Originally by: Subjorn 1.You're doing missions and some random person warps in and starts salvaging your wrecks. Can we at least make it where they go red so I can attack them for stealing? At this point my only options are to let them steal my salvage or blow it up. I blow it up. 2.Someone invites a player to fleet up just so they can destroy their ship without concord attacking them. Can we not get at least a popup when someone takes a hostile action towards you that allows you to leave fleet instantly so that concord can do their job and pop these griefers. This happened to a corp mate when another corp mate invited him to go mining and he lost a retriver. 3.WarDecs in high sec, I like the idea behind wardecs but if players choose to start a corp in high sec they are wanting to focus on other aspects of the game not PVP. I'm not saying get rid of wardecs in high sec but what I am asking is that if someone wnats to wardec a high sec corp that the corp being dec'd must accept it or it doesn't happen. A newbie corp can be griefed endlessly by people. Lol-worthy 1/ Warp out - let the ninjas take the aggro (or don't do missions near/in mission hubs) 2/ Not all targeting blues in fleet is hostile. it would be tricky programmatically. 3/ Ummm the alternative is simply stupid. "Accept a war dec?" don't think any indy corps would do that. No, it's simply not EVE. Truly pathetic griefers .... ore thiefs.
Shizuken	Posted - 2010.10.17 18:02:00 - [38] Well if someone tries to loot your wrecks can't you shoot them? I enjoy the fact that players get such a big role in determining how this game unfolds. I am coming from WoW where if someone from you faction interrupts your questing by aggroing tons of NPCs on you there is absolutely NOTHING you can do about it. You are not allowed to fight people in your own faction whatsoever. This has created an environment where that kind of disruptive "griefing" is everywhere because there is no corrective action you can take which would give them an incentive not to behave that way. This is of course you are on a PvP server and want to pay for another account so you can have a badass toon from the other alliance to try and log onto before they split. Trust me, the EVE way is better.
wolf419	Posted - 2010.10.18 19:04:00 - [39] 2.Someone invites a player to fleet up just so they can destroy their ship without concord attacking them. Can we not get at least a popup when someone takes a hostile action towards you that allows you to leave fleet instantly so that concord can do their job and pop these griefers. This happened to a corp mate when another corp mate invited him to go mining and he lost a retriver. you do relise that 2 people from the same corp can shoot each other with out concord enterfering x960.jpg
Verdon Teraskun	Posted - 2010.10.19 03:47:00 - [40] Originally by: Akita T If such a guy comes into your mission, what you should do is offer him a "50-50 split" contract, where he follows you around (you provide the bookmark, no need for scanning) and you split the earnings 50-50. Chat his ears off POLITELY. Ask him to be your friend. Be cheerful. With a bit of luck, he'll be so creeped out he won't ever come into your mission again. I prefer the old "Get recon level 3 and sit in the gas cloud AFK for a day" strategy. Oh the tears.

gfldex	Posted - 2010.10.19 11:06:00 - [41] Originally by: Verdon Teraskun I prefer the old "Get recon level 3 and sit in the gas cloud AFK for a day" strategy. Oh the tears. If you got that mission, fleet random ppl in shuttles and fleet warp them into it.
AstarothPrime	Posted - 2010.10.19 12:21:00 - [42] Originally by: Subjorn 1.You're doing missions and some random person warps in and starts salvaging your wrecks. Can we at least make it where they go red so I can attack them for stealing? At this point my only options are to let them steal my salvage or blow it up. I blow it up. No, I like that option - works great when ure bored... find someone on angelvaganza and try not to get shot by mobs around ya. Originally by: Subjorn 2.Someone invites a player to fleet up just so they can destroy their ship without concord attacking them. Can we not get at least a popup when someone takes a hostile action towards you that allows you to leave fleet instantly so that concord can do their job and pop these griefers. This happened to a corp mate when another corp mate invited him to go mining and he lost a retriver. Pffft - a retriever - cheap school. Next time u rant about that - make sure its atleast a jump freighter with something valuable in it. Originally by: Subjorn 3.WarDecs in high sec, I like the idea behind wardecs but if players choose to start a corp in high sec they are wanting to focus on other aspects of the game not PVP. I'm not saying get rid of wardecs in high sec but what I am asking is that if someone wnats to wardec a high sec corp that the corp being dec'd must accept it or it doesn't happen. A newbie corp can be griefed endlessly by people. Endless giefing can be petitioned a.f.a.i.k. On the other hand - give 0sec and lowsec a go. You cant tell me that staring at a rock in 1.0 sec space is so darn fun. And dont tell me ALL of your corpies stare at a rock all time, and noone can field atleast a decent battlecruiser and some rr support (atleast in form of T1 cruiser). I.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation	Posted - 2010.10.19 17:35:00 - [43] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 15/10/2010 14:32:39 Originally by: Subjorn 1.You're doing missions and some random person warps in and starts salvaging your wrecks. Can we at least make it where they go red so I can attack them for stealing? At this point my only options are to let them steal my salvage or blow it up. I blow it up. Because allowing miners to attack canflippers was such a brilliant idea in the past, amirite ? This is a stupid argument. Lets see before the change flippers just came in and stole with 0 chance of consequence. Now they at least face the chance that the jetcanner is actually Can baiting them. Really what is it you are so afraid of? And I don't give a flying frack what rational CCP has offered, ninja salvaging is theft and should be treated as such. Those wrecks exist through the efforts of the MR and as such represent their spoils and they should have the right to defend those spoils. Now exercising said right might not be the smartest move but it should still be a right. Mechanics I'd like to see changed to give some balance between the good and bad guys. Ninja salvaging flagged as theft. Looting of mission completion items flagged as theft. Kill rights going to the players corporation so there is some remote chance in hell that they might actually be exercised someday. RR causing an aggression flag to delay docking {make them risk those damn logis}. Scan resolution and signature effects in deadspace to make it harder to scan runners down. Basically what I have a problem with in this game is the number of mechanics that allow consequence free griefing. I think it's good for the game that people can choose to play the bad guy. What I have a problem with is the mechanics preventing any consequence being applied to that choice. Chance of any of these ideas getting implemented. Something approaching 0 since the biggest griefers in the game are the developers.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.10.20 00:06:00 - [44] Originally by: Skex Relbore Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Subjorn 1.You're doing missions and some random person warps in and starts salvaging your wrecks. Can we at least make it where they go red so I can attack them for stealing? At this point my only options are to let them steal my salvage or blow it up. I blow it up. Because allowing miners to attack canflippers was such a brilliant idea in the past, amirite ? This is a stupid argument. Might be, but it's the truth. Overall, allowing people to shoot salvagers will result in overall much more "grief" than NOT allowing them to shoot them. I AM NOT SAYING IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN, IF ONLY FOR "T3H LULZ" OF IT. What I am saying is that it will have the opposite effect those complaining about it would desire. Suppose salvaging was considered stealing, and you can freely aggress the salvager. The effect of that will be that whoever was before just salvaging will now be salvaging AND grabbing all the loot, since there's no "additional penalty" for doing so. MANY mission-runners will at first attack the now-looter-salvagers for sure. In fact, there's a small but non-zero chance that the mission-runner's drones WILL automatically aggress the salvager if he doesn't pay attention, effectively granting the salvager the right to shoot at the mission-runner at will for the next 15 minutes. Since the overall effect will be that the "ninja-salvaging" profession becomes more dangerous, there MIGHT be less ninja-salvagers (now ninja-looting-salvagers), but those that remain will be far less scrupulous in their approaches, with an increased chance of them getting in the mission primarily to kill the missioner rather than just loot and salvage... or an even mix of those two. All in all, this change will almost certainly result in far more mission-runner deaths. But then again, eh, why not. MAKE IT SO _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation	Posted - 2010.10.20 04:29:00 - [45] I admit I hadn't thought of the drone issue. Then again it results in more explosions so tis all good.
The AEther Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.10.20 10:37:00 - [46] If you don't some random player to salvage your wrecks, invite a corpmate of yours to do a mission together. Especially younger players will appreciate it. You run the mission - he salvages the wrecks and loots them and shares it with you. It's both time and cost effective. zero blues 0.0 pvp, pvp classes
Subjorn	Posted - 2010.10.20 14:32:00 - [47] OMG , This has made two pages and over 1k views. I wasn't expecting this, I knew the flames would come and I knew some people felt the same way because I have spoken with a few of them in game. This is likely my be post of all time just for the fact that I managed to get so many people looking at it. I have to send out a special thanks to all the haters and griefers and carbears making this post what it is. Fly Safe


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