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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
203
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Posted - 2012.08.06 10:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
just dont let greyscale anywhere near the issue, thats what I want
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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
204
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Posted - 2012.08.06 11:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
No one would have voted for two step if we'd known he wanted to bring docking games to wormholes. Too late now though, eve in roo-ins, already unsubbed all eighty seven of my accounts, burning jita, etc |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
205
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Posted - 2012.08.06 12:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Prez21 wrote:Two step wrote:CCP has their reasons for not wanting to have forcefields anymore. The exact reasons got NDA'd out of the CSM minutes, but they are reasonable. As for sitting outside a new POS's docking point, you might be able to do that, but they might also have webs, points and guns to cover that exit. So if you attack that person undocking, they can just dock back up and let their defenses attack you.
Seriuosly who voted you in for CSM? nobody wants to have docking games and station bullshit in w-space, i couldnt think of a worse way to play this game and your a complete idiot for even trying to justify being able to dock in w-space.
I did, though I wasn't aware that he had a stiffy for docking-games and wanted to push them onto POS |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
206
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Posted - 2012.08.06 13:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Duramah wrote:Station games? A big yes! Whilst we are at it let's get motherships to be able to enter wh's. Hell why not introduce cyno's to work and have local again. +1
and lets make the wormhole connections fixed and permanent |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
213
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Posted - 2012.08.07 07:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
I can't think of anything you could do to prevent docking games on a pos that wouldn't mess things up - buffing pos defenses, extended timers, etc that have been suggested here would cause huge issues in other areas.
There may be some mysterious NDA'd reasons why they'd like forcefields to go, but if it introduces docking games in any way then gg ccp, you'll see a metric **** tonne of complaints and unsubbing
The big floating "cities" with multiple pos on grid sounds cool and would look amazing... but it's a terrible idea. People pulling together twenty deathstars into a giant city of deathstars would be horrific |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
225
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Posted - 2012.08.08 13:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Two step wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote:Of course it's only one aspect, but an important one. I'm a little concerned that Two steps personal opinions (which are legitimate of course) will pass for "what wormhole dwellers want" in sight of CCP (who obviously have little to no own knowledge of wormhole life for the most part ). Just wanted to comment on this (and many posts like it). First of all, I don't just present my personal opinions to CCP. I read threads like this, and try to present as many of the opinions I can. For example, I don't care at all about refitting T3s at a POS, but I regularly bug CCP about fixing it. Secondly, a *lot* of CCPers are in w-space. From CCP Soundwave on down, w-space is very popular with CCPers, for the same reason it is popular with all of us.
You don't care about refitting t3s, but do like the idea of station games
you are a crazy person |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
231
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Posted - 2012.08.09 08:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Two step wrote:Things you get from docking: (off the top of my head, and in no particular order) 1) Markets 2) Contracts 3) Secure Trade 4) Ship spinning 5) Captains Quarters/Whatever other Incarna stuff shows up 6) Assemble/refit T3s 7) Fit from saved fittings 8) Access to personal and shared storage 9) Repackaging, repairing, refining 10) Real container access 11) Real access rights, including the different corp hangar access for "based at" vs "other" stations 12) Possibly in the future, the ability to switch clones (not jump clone into and out of w-space, but switch implant sets) The main point with docking is that we can see from the current system that CCP is bad at maintaining 2 separate systems for how players interact with hangars and storage. Getting docking means that whatever features and improvements CCP makes to the station interface comes for free for wormhole people. Clearly I need to write up another blog post about this, because I think folks are missing the point here. I fully agree that docking would change things, but I also think some change is really good for folks. I also wanted to respond to one specific point from Chitsa and Rroff: Chitsa Jason wrote:Forcefield is one of the integral parts in w-space. It lets you be in space and have a buffer from the hostile environment. It also allows you to manage your POS without fear of being ganked by some random cloaky SB I think this is 100% wrong. W-space is about lack of information, and making people work hard just to survive there. The exact mechanics of a forcefield or no forcefield has nothing at all to do with the reason people enjoy living in w-space. I'd challenge *anyone* to ask people for their top 10 reasons they like w-space and see POSes *anywhere* on that list. POSes (in their current form) are something we all *suffer* through in order to live in w-space, not the reason w-space is good. People like w-space because of the small gang fights, or because there is no local, or because the PVE is harder than most k-space, they don't love bouncing off POS mods when trying to warp or having to enter a POS password every single time you want to pick up some ammo.
And you can ask *anyone* if they'd like ******* docking games added to w-space and you'd get nothing but screams of NO |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
234
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think we can summarise this thread with "If you got POS problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems but a forcefield aint one"
or alternatively, I got 99 problems and shite docking mechanics is all of them |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
241
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Posted - 2012.08.10 14:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bane Nucleus wrote:If I have to drop combat probes to find someones POS, the sneaky factor goes to 0, and wh space goes to ****.
Have to reveal yourself to find a pos. Finding pos is meaningless because 2000 carebears are docked in a "dock" module and you can't see them welcome to wormholes 2.0, everything is awful edition
I'm also not quite sure what "need" there is to allow POS to be put up anywhere at all, rather than requiring them being on a moon. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
247
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Posted - 2012.08.12 00:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Malken wrote:and to those wanting clone access in WH space all i can say is that you are nuts.
podding people is a way to remove people from the WH and a direct meter on winning the fight as they have helluva lot harder to get back into the fight for said WH.
I think the majority of people who want clones in wh space aren't thinking about getting podded and waking up back in wh space, but rather about the ability to switch implants.
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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
247
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Posted - 2012.08.12 20:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Dino Boff wrote:IMHO, docking games will be better than force field games. By games, I mean when the defender get out of the POS to alpha a weak ship or to kill a bubble but don't want to commit to a fight.
Currently, with force field, the defender will get some few hundred meters out of the force field and shoot something. The siege fleet will rep what the defender is shooting and send some ships over to try to bump him off. As soon as a ship come too close, the defender get back in and try again on the opposite side. it's quite boring, but one of the less boring of POS bashing activities, so we still play it even if the chance to bump him off correctly and in time is so low.
With a dock, the defender undock, shoot for some time until he need to deaggress to redock. The sieging fleet has one minute to bump out of the undock him and any logistic or carrier undocking to rep (by then, hopefully, repping will give aggression and prevent the ship from docking right away).
Also, defender might be more willing to get out to commit to a fight since if it's easier to surprise the sieging fleet (or ganking fleet if it is to go help a corp mate being ambushed).
Personally, as long as we can sneakily judge if a POS is active or not, I am ok with the occupant fleet composition being hidden. CCP could design those POS with visual clues of activity or we could have a POS scanner.
Docking games are god awful. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
248
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Posted - 2012.08.13 11:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
faith and respect for twostep -6,000,000
good luck next time bro, you've undoubtedly lost a huge portion of voters by insanely liking docking games |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
248
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Posted - 2012.08.13 11:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
oh and lets not forget how utterly fantastic using the new unified inventory would be if we had twenty towers worth of smas, chas, etc on grid at once
lmao
oh well it was a good run. Wormholes were great for a couple of years. RIP wh space. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
248
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Posted - 2012.08.13 15:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Klarion Sythis wrote:Papiranti robcki wrote:Now that we know why FF's are being removed That's highly presumptive. Your reasoning is plausible, but to take that as fact is silly. @TwoStep: How set is CCP on getting rid of forcefields? Do they want them gone to mesh with new features as Papiranti suggests? Do they want them gone because coding them is a nightmare? Or is there some technical reason that they have to go? Bottom line, are forcefields realistically up for debate, or should we be focusing on ways to get what we want from a new system?
Well that stuff is all NDA'd for now. Best to just assume forcefields are as good as gone and start making noises about how to prevent awful docking game bs |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
248
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Posted - 2012.08.13 21:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Two step wrote:I'm going to skip the docking games stuff as I really do think it would be completely different than in k-space
It'd be slightly different to camping jita 4-4, yeah, but I still think it'd be pretty terrible, for reasons already expressed fifty times in this thread.
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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
250
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Posted - 2012.08.14 08:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
As for the lower class wormholes issue, I think it's fairly balanced tbh. You gain a defense advantage because its harder for attackers to knock over your large death/**** stars, but at the same time you sacrifice a lot by living in a low class wormhole - the logistics can be harder and obviously the isk is pathetic. C1/C2 evictions also do actually happen
Beyond that, I also think purposefully gimping lower class wormholes by idiotic ideas such as preventing them from bringing in or using large towers or other mods you also make wormhole space less appealing for corps that are looking to try something new. You're saying either jump in at the deep end or get a really sucky experience. And jumping into the deep end could be a fairly sucky experience in and of itself unless they join one of the already established Big BoysGäó of wormhole space. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
250
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Posted - 2012.08.14 12:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dino Boff wrote:POS have been design for empire and null sec.; they have too much HP and their defences are OP for small gang pvp we do in w-space.
Beside with the short life wormhole connection, what does protect a POS (or a POCO) in w-space is its timer (for all wormhole classes).
Their defenses are OP for "small gang pvp"? Uh... no. Small gangs were never intended to be able to steamroll towers, in any area of space. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
251
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Posted - 2012.08.14 13:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
heres a crazy idea regarding docking games, towers in c1s, etc:
dont fix what isn't broken
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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
256
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Posted - 2012.08.15 08:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nycodemis wrote:Two step, you were elected in hopes that our voices, through you, would lead to the betterment of W-Space as a whole and all of the corps within... not just AHARM and C5/C6 dwellers.
He's not speaking on behalf of c5/c6 dwellers in general either, since none of us want stupid docking games. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
256
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Posted - 2012.08.15 08:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
oh and the continued idiocy against lower class wormholes is laughable. Claiming they have a huge advantage because the attacker can't drop dreads on them is ignoring a thousand other things stacked against them, such as the fact they realistically aren't going to have a huge cap fleet to defend themselves (because who wants to invest in a ship-in-a-bottle when the bottle can be taken over by someone else with ease), that the residents generally have far less income to help fund defense fleets/mercs/etc, that the logistics for enemies to bring in huge numbers of subcaps is easier thanks to low/high sec entrances, or the general reality that evictions in low class wormholes happen waaaaay more than evictions in high class ones already.
I mean I personally don't like those baby class wormholes and would never live in one, but asking for them to be nerfed into the ground is just ridiculous.
More like Boo Step |
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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
257
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Posted - 2012.08.15 08:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Indo Nira wrote:but did you tell them that? or are you just an ass-kissing wannabe politician sucking up to the people that are paying for your trips to Iceland?
I imagine it went something like this: CCP: *throws around some ideas, including very bad ones* Two Step: Yup yup yup yup *just happy to be there guy* yup yup yup Two Step on forums: *praise these ideas* Everyone who voted for him: Wow, no. These are bad because ... Two Step: Well it's ccp doing it anyway, but I do love it. Yup yup yup.
and in the future: wormhole space in ruins two step never getting near a seat on the csm again
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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
259
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Posted - 2012.08.15 09:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
That quote is really quite damning; Two Step you're allowed your own opinions, but you have to also present the general concerns and opinions of those who elected you. Only talking about your own personal views and saying "elect someone else next time" is ridiculous. You seem to be reacting to becoming a csm member the same way some idiot children react to being made hall-monitor at school. No one likes that kid. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
260
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Posted - 2012.08.15 10:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
We HAVE discussed why we're for/against certain things, and the responses we get from him are a joke. Telling us we should have elected someone else, or implying our feedback is irrelevant as CCP have already decided certain things (that are hid behind NDAs), or other crap that makes my faith in him, the csm in general and CCP plummet. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
263
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Posted - 2012.08.15 12:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
Two step wrote:Constituent tip: I am representing my community. I wrote a blog post in April where my first bullet point was that new POSes should have docking. The feedback I got from my community then was that this was good.
Did they know at the time that forcefields were also being removed?
And do comments on your blog have more weight than disucssions on this forum? Did the discussion/comments on your blogs have as many participants and posts as this (and the other threads that have popped up) thread?
Your excuses and justifications are pathetic. Enjoy your short stay in the CSM mate.
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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
265
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Posted - 2012.08.15 13:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
Skippidipp wrote:With no FF there will be no more sucideing of ships when you lose an invasion, thats why all 5-15 member corporations are complaining. There POS will be that more atractive for invasions. Don't start with the FF is so great, cause thats a load of crap. Everyone that has to type in password every time they want to go in to a POS knows this. And the rest of the FF mechanics is just plain stupid. If CCP had a better designer back when POS first hit TQ, we wouldn't be stuck with this **** for all the time that we have. And yea, there would be no FF. And docking games? Serious? What about FF games? How many of you that complains about docking games have ever done an invasion or been invaded?
Stop filling your POS with everything you own and you should be fine after they change them.
I've done invasions, and attacked pos in kspace, and even done hisec war back in the day. Forcefield games are far, far less annoying than docking games - both for the attacker and defender. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
265
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Posted - 2012.08.15 13:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Don't blame this on us deep holers, I believe the majority of us are against most of the silly changes suggested too.
As for some of the hisec-esque things like contracts, trading, etc... I'm personally not bothered about that at all. I live in a wormhole with my corp, I know the people. If I need something I'll ask in corp chat or on comms if anyone has one I could buy or borrow. Then fly on over to wherever they have it stored and get it from them. Not a big deal. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
267
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Posted - 2012.08.15 15:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
Blah blah words words.
Ok, sure, fine whatever. People may have not known about the FF thing a while ago. Or they may have missed your blog or whatever, or not known your personal views on docking, lower class wormholes, etc. Maybe you didn't have a great understanding of the views and concerns wormhole players have on some of these things. Blah blah. What's done is done, but what we need to do now is look forward.
That is to say, instead of making excuses, justifying your own personal views, dickwaving / posturing at alts about aharm, flat out calling people "stupid" in this thread, etc, maybe you represent the people who elected you and help get their views across to ccp as best as possible from now on.
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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
267
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Posted - 2012.08.15 15:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Two step wrote:As for the big fish comment, that is already true. Right now, many of the larger w-space alliances could kick just about anyone out of c1-c4 space. The only reason they aren't doing that right now is because they have no reason to do so. I don't see how making them more vulnerable to smaller groups changes that in any way.
Why should they be vulnerable to small groups? Will it promote more/better fights in lower class wormholes (is there a lack of fights in lower class wormholes)? Is there any problem that actually needs fixing here?
Also, who the hell says larger alliances aren't evicting people from lower class wormholes? That seems to happen quite regularly. You think people in low class wormholes aren't getting kicked out ever? Please, lower class wormhole residents get kicked out far far more than residents in big fortress c5-c6s. Even if you were correct in saying that people weren't getting kicked out of low class wormholes because there's "no reason to do so" (which you are not. Very not)... making lower class wormholes less valuable overall with additional limitations would only make this problem WORSE. There'd be even LESS reason for anyone to want to bother. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
281
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Posted - 2012.08.16 15:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
i lol'd all over myself when I read the cloaky pos bit of that last post
He really has lost it. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
282
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Posted - 2012.08.17 07:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Gnaw LF wrote:Rek Seven wrote:I think he means invisible from d-scan. You would be able to scan the POS down and see it when on grid... I think it's an okay idea and i would love if POS's had more abilities like this other that shoot and tank. I want to fit a Doomsday on my POS How is it a good idea? The very first time someone opens up into you they will d-scan, if they don't find the pos on d-scan then they will drop probes at which point they will find your POS. After that they will have the information in whatever tool they use for mapping, be it siggy, wormnav and many other intel tools. So we are talking about a feature that needs to be coded and implemented and that will be helpful in a handful of scenarios / situations. Seems like completely useless feature. It might not be a great idea but i don't think it's terrible. It would force hostile to announce their presence buy launching probes. it's just another tactic that people can use.
I think mechanics that force people to reveal their presence in w-space defeats the point entirely. You can do a bloody lot of intel gathering without using probes at all currently, changing the mechanics so you're pretty much forced to deploy probes the second you enter a new wh is just dumb imo |
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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
282
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Posted - 2012.08.17 08:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
Two Step, I have read the minutes. However the comment you made about your preference - i.e. a cloaking module (or whatever it'd be called) that'd let the owner hide POS from dscan - is just laughable. The fact that you presume anyone who disagrees with an idea you had/support is uninformed or ignorant is ridiculous. You've done it constantly throughout this thread, stop it.
But since you're fond of just telling people to read x or y, let me ask you to read this thread. As I, as well as several others, have asked what the perceived "problem" is with lower class wormholes. Either what you think is an issue, or what CCP / other CSM members in the past have raised concerns over, because I've yet to see you answer this, instead just blabbering on about potential ways to gimp lower class wormholes to make it easier to evict people from them, as if lower class evictions don't happen (or are somehow harder than knocking over fortresses c6 systems)
Tell us what the issue is and why it needs addressing before swamping us with ideas. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
300
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Posted - 2012.08.21 10:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
Pink Marshmellow wrote:Without capital support, it is much more time consuming and difficult to take on large towers. This applies to C1-C4 space.
Because Forcefield on large towers are 27 km in radius, the only real way to destroy a pos is by using Battleships, which cannot fit in a C1, or a Tier 3 Battlecruiser with are poorly suited to taking down defended pos due to their fragility.
I personally think that's kind of balanced already. If someone lives in a c1 then yes, attackers have a hard time because they can't swarm in battleships, but thats balanced by the fact that the residents live in a c1 - with less isk and more random traffic which wont hesitate to take the time out from their search for kspace to shoot the mining barge or lone drake doing pve
Pink Marshmellow wrote:I don't know whether or not Forcefields should be removed, but I believe when pos bashing the Forcefield itself should be the target, rather than the tower. Meaning that you no longer need large or long range weaponry in order actually pos bash.
Once the forcefield 's hitpoints are gone, it should disappear leaving behind the pos which has no shields.
Even though this would kind of go against what I just said about the little bit of "balance" I think it brings (at least with regards to lower class wormholes - 0.0, hisec, etc is a different story) I still support it just because it's always bugged me that the bullets and missiles glide right through this giant shield and happily pound the actual structure.
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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
319
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Posted - 2012.08.28 08:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
Bane Nucleus wrote:the numbers
Well there you have it. The amount of POS killed in c2 wormholes match the amount killed in c5s, and there are more towers killed in c1s than in c6s. Even when adjusting for the amount of c1s vs the amount of c6s... it still shows there is decent activity in c1s, and the 'average # of players on km' isn't much different either.
There's pretty much nothing to suggest that there is something that "needs fixing" in lower class wormholes, especially not huge, idiotic nerfs like not being able to set up large towers, or not use certain pos mods, etc. |
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