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kapolov
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.08.05 03:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Two step wrote:CCP has their reasons for not wanting to have forcefields anymore. The exact reasons got NDA'd out of the CSM minutes, but they are reasonable. As for sitting outside a new POS's docking point, you might be able to do that, but they might also have webs, points and guns to cover that exit. So if you attack that person undocking, they can just dock back up and let their defenses attack you.
I do agree that having some sot of indication via scan probes or d-scan of a pos being offline/out of fuel would be a good thing. I also agree that showing how many people are docked or maybe even what ships they have active would be a really important part of a new system. Frankly, if I have to give that up to get all the other benefits, I think it is worth it though.
TBH from reading the minutes the POS part seemed to have a lot of technical information lacking compared to the great detail that other topics got discussed? How much that was discussed are we missing?
The whole new POS system seems to greatly favor the attacker in a hostile situation. You would give up having access to all our current intel for the upside of a few benefits that in station services will give us? Options we should already have? Why the **** do you see them as trade offs we should pass up?
I don't expect to have POS's favor the local residents but i don't think they should now play stupid docking games when a well composed fleet can sit at your undock point and tank your POS defenses and stop you from leaving in a fleet format to form up any worthwhile defense.
I think the whole lesser POS idea is a bad option completely as you include C2,3 and 4 in those plans. I agree POS limitations need to be changed in C1's however or mass numbers looked at.
EDIT: Not all of us want to live in C5'6's and play the Cap game. You should remember that. |

kapolov
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 10:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Of course it's only one aspect, but an important one. I'm a little concerned that Two steps personal opinions (which are legitimate of course) will pass for "what wormhole dwellers want" in sight of CCP (who obviously have little to no own knowledge of wormhole life for the most part ).
Docking is in itself a bad mechanic. A player leaves the universe and suddenly is in a windowless environment, unconnected to space and completely safe. It's even bad from an immersion point of view. Most modern games simulating a world try to be seamless, have no loading times and not have separate 'levels' but only one world where you go from one place to the next without interruptions.
The real way forward would be to create some kind of station environment that still leaves you in space. Zoom in to see your ship hangar and indulge in ship spinning, zoom out and see the space surrounding the POS/station. Including access to d-scan.
And when viewing such a POS, we can see a 'guest list' like in a station from the outside.
If there has to be POS-docking, one way to go could be to give POSes multiple undock tubes we can select, like up, down, left, right, front, rear if it's cubicle-shaped. That way in a siege the attackers would have to block all six undock tubes to prevent the inhabitants from undocking.
You also have to include the fact that they want to bring it in a station like effect. Where all other stations are (LS, HS and Null), they already have local as an intel tool for possible threats. While i am not proposing we get local in WH's it needs to be looked at from our point.
The problem is that they do only have Two steps views on this and we have no clue that a Dev even reads the WH section. But we need more people to input to this thread to at least show Two Step what his fellow WH people think about it, at least before next elections... |

kapolov
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2012.08.08 11:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Two step wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote:Of course it's only one aspect, but an important one. I'm a little concerned that Two steps personal opinions (which are legitimate of course) will pass for "what wormhole dwellers want" in sight of CCP (who obviously have little to no own knowledge of wormhole life for the most part ). Just wanted to comment on this (and many posts like it). First of all, I don't just present my personal opinions to CCP. I read threads like this, and try to present as many of the opinions I can. For example, I don't care at all about refitting T3s at a POS, but I regularly bug CCP about fixing it. Secondly, a *lot* of CCPers are in w-space. From CCP Soundwave on down, w-space is very popular with CCPers, for the same reason it is popular with all of us.
Three pages of negative responses from the WH community to the changes and lack of information presented to us in the CSM minutes and that's all the response you give? |

kapolov
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2012.08.08 12:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Joran Jackson wrote:kapolov wrote:Two step wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote:Of course it's only one aspect, but an important one. I'm a little concerned that Two steps personal opinions (which are legitimate of course) will pass for "what wormhole dwellers want" in sight of CCP (who obviously have little to no own knowledge of wormhole life for the most part ). Just wanted to comment on this (and many posts like it). First of all, I don't just present my personal opinions to CCP. I read threads like this, and try to present as many of the opinions I can. For example, I don't care at all about refitting T3s at a POS, but I regularly bug CCP about fixing it. Secondly, a *lot* of CCPers are in w-space. From CCP Soundwave on down, w-space is very popular with CCPers, for the same reason it is popular with all of us. Three pages of negative responses from the WH community to the changes and lack of information presented to us in the CSM minutes and that's all the response you give? Amarr Empire is wormhole space now? Get off the guy's back, he's clearly reading the thread, let's be constructive and not a bunch of forum shitposters.
Our wings grow far.
And yes from reading the minutes Two Step sounded very generalized in his opinions and on the one major section that will relate heavily to WH space i feel he didn't do it justice at all.
He can say all he wants that he had to look at it from all perspectives and not just his own opinions but he was voted in because he lives in a WH and its bullshit to say otherwise. Even shitpoasters vote.
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kapolov
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.08.10 12:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dino Boff wrote:All those complains about docking, are you just trolling two step? When do we ever fight at a POS? Fight in wh space happen on sites, on WH or at POCOs. The only time we fight at a POS is when we bash them and the only thing we kill there, mostly, are capital that committed to the fight.
How is dockable POS going to change that?
About the other complains. It will allow defenders to hide their numbers and their fleet composition. But the hunters have such an advantage in w-space, that that change is a good thing imho.
The only challenges with the new POS are how do we find them and can any cloues be given on how active they are. CCP needs to find a design solution for those challenges.
I hope they make you sing something extremely embarrassing on TS or at least punch you in the neck. |

kapolov
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 11:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:oh and lets not forget how utterly fantastic using the new unified inventory would be if we had twenty towers worth of smas, chas, etc on grid at once
lmao
oh well it was a good run. Wormholes were great for a couple of years. RIP wh space.
I completely agree.
And can i have yur stuffz? |

kapolov
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 03:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
.
EDIT: I failed at mass quoting  |

kapolov
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2012.08.14 03:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think you really need to rethink your stance on the lower class WH's being gimped.
I do agree the C1 POS defence situation is a little unbalanced due to mass restrictions on the C1 hole. (that's not to say C1 evictions can't and don't happen, they are just painful.)
A 5 man corp is going to find it very hard to take over any size inhabited WH with only 5 people to field, but to say they can't move into C2's currently really is bullshit, there is plenty of uninhabited C2's with varying statics available and many of those with good PI as well. If they cannot find one of these empty C2's there is certainly many that go up for sale every single day and most go unsold for the lack of buyers. Again to say anything against that is pure bullshit and if you don't agree you guys need to get out of your hole and explore some more.
I here your point that attackers can't bring caps to attack a C2, But why the hell do you think you should be able to. If you live in a C5/C6 where your corp can make countless billions per week and most of these C5/C6 corps have a large member base. Do you really think you should be able to move your caps (that to you are disposable to some point from your large income base) around to every WH that you see fit and attack people living in C2's? Your C5/C6 corps already have the numbers and funds to easily go to any C2 and evict a resident regardless of tower composition and to say any difference to that again is bullshit.
I strongly feel that if a corp/Alliance has spent a great deal of their resources to fortify their home system in a C2- a C4 on the gimped income they have available compared to a C5/C6 they should be able to. Isnt it you that has pointed out previously Two Step that to fully evict a C5/C6 corp/Alliance it is also very hard if they have fortified their systems with multiple caps and towers and takes an enormous effort of moving caps in waves and rolling statics many hundreds of times to do so. You have to work for the eviction in the C5/C6's why do you think it should be a lot easier to evict people in lower class holes than in your own if they can fortify with such a massive difference in income levels.
To gimp lower class holes any further than they are will in the long term just see them as a waste land. I don't know what you want the outcome to be with this but you need to consider it. Do you want all lower class WH corps to move to your C5/C6? Or do you want to constantly scan your way through empty systems to get your junk to empire?
The idea that one of your corp mates can come out and completely bag the CEO of losts post ( A post that i found to have some completely reasonable concerns) with a response like move to a C5 you pansie is abhorrent. Have you guys not taken a look at your KB compared to theirs lately?
Or will you guys soon be moving to null where all your reall PVP is at?
(And no i am not from lost, they have touched me in bad places before and io am not a fan of theirs, ) But they are right this time. |

kapolov
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 07:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Nash MacAllister wrote:I respectfully disagree with this statement. To say that living in a C2 somehow poses less risk is absurd. We have the same risk to our POS as you do. oh please, youre just embarrassing yourself. comparing POS sieges in a c5/6 to a c2 is just stupid, at best ignorant. POS defences on a C5/6 POS are basically decorative since any attacking fleet will have a LEAST 3, more likely a half dozen or more, dreads which can ignore them. attacking a decked out dickstar in a low class WH is THE single most tedious and horribly painful thing you can do in a WH. yes, obviously it can be done regardless of POS setup, even in a C1. however, attacking a low class large POS with 100+ online ECM mods (which all low class POSs should have if they know what theyre doing, most dont) is beyond painful.
So we should just make us all use small/medium POS's so you can just breeze through evict a few noobs and move on back to your fortress of solitude. Get a grip on reality, how elitist can you be.
Get past the idea that the cap game is the only way to play in WH's |

kapolov
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 12:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Dino Boff wrote:POS hit points or defences capabilities should scale down in lower class wormholes, but other features should be the same. Higher class wormholes are farther away from empire space and station services but that's a trade off we accept when moving there to get better rewards (both in PVE and PVP).
If your going to put forward an stupid idea you should at the least explain why?
Why should we risk the 10's of billions in assets that we have just as a small corp in a C4 and be forced to live out of a POS with the defence and HP of a small POS, a small POS that any rag tag bunch of idiots with a fleet comp put together by a monkey could easilly handle.
Yeah lets make all low class WH's the entertainment for people while they can't find any C5/C6 cap fights.  |
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kapolov
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 12:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:
Should they limit how many caps you can have in a c5/6 to make it easier for small c5/6 corps to siege a POS too?
A good point made, if we can no longer have a fortress why should you have more than three caps at a time. |

kapolov
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 12:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dino Boff wrote:POS have been design for empire and null sec.; they have too much HP and their defences are OP for small gang pvp we do in w-space.
Beside with the short life wormhole connection, what does protect a POS (or a POCO) in w-space is its timer (for all wormhole classes).
I seriously cant believe you still speak with that much crap dribbling out. It's unbelievable. |

kapolov
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 12:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dino Boff wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Should they limit how many caps you can have in a c5/6 to make it easier for small c5/6 corps to siege a POS too? Please no, we want more capitals to shoot at, not less.
Then take your caps and go invade a fully fortified C5/C6 for a complete eviction. Ohh wait that's to hard right? Perhaps if you changed **** up to suit your entertainment value then it would be ok.
The fact is that C5/C6 evictions happen a hell of a lot less than they do in lower class holes and you guys somehow think that our end is unbalanced. The naivety is palpable. |

kapolov
Hedion University Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 22:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
What you seem to be avoiding Two Step is the fact hat i and others have mentioned is that it is FACT that more evictions take place in lower class WH's than in C5/C6's. There is nothing at all unbalanced here.
The fact that it becomes to much of an issue for people that live in C5/C6's to go to a C2 and evict someone should not be the problem of every lower class WH dweller, they get evicted by HS rag tag groups all the time for holes, and from the other nasties that live below you.
You will create a massive class difference between C1-4 and C5-6, even more so than it already is. Good luck with the wasteland that will be low end WH's. Our corp will move on from it, it would be inevitably as the risk would be massive.
Last night we counted we had 46 Billion in assets stored in 2 large POS's in a C4 with 22 active pilots, i agree it is the pilots that defend a POS but should we really bloody have to every single weekend when some HS tools stumble upon 2two small POS's filled with gravy. We simply should not have to.
Those 22 active pilots with many many accounts between us all voted for you for the fact you stood for the betterment of the WHOLE WH community not just the elitist bunch of dicks living in C5/C6's, but if that's all you want to remain after the changes good luck to you.
If you leave it developing the way that you seem happy with, the whole thing will be a massive joke. |

kapolov
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 05:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Senn Denroth wrote: (and skipped several posts by alts) .
You know what though we actually have to post on alts when posting sensitive information like i did about our WH on alts to get our point across because hey there is actually people in C1-4's that go after gravy WH's to evict people.
It's not all cookies and cake being passed around while we hug each other and paint glitter filled rainbows like Two Step would have you believe.
The difference is you guys in C5/C6's have your gud fights gf it up in local then go back to your home system do a couple of sites, suck a little gas and replace all your losses the very same day. Evictions are very rare in C5/C6's against well established entities, i dare you to prove me wrong on that.
In lower class Wh's we still have fights and have them often but when we lose it takes more than one day to replace losses and if we go to far in inflicting losses against other people they turn up the next week in massive numbers to evict you, simply because they can. But hey i suppose we should put up with a little more of what you call fair and do it all out of a small POS.
Give me a break. |

kapolov
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 10:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bloemkoolsaus wrote:I find it funny that some people think they are the community. lol  The only real thing we all seem to agree on is that low class wormholes are fine and should not be nerfed. I've seen proponents and opponents about all other issues. So, claiming two step is acting against the community is just not true. Give the guy a break, it's hard representing an entire community, especially one filled with ocd folks like us :P I think he's doing fine as our voice on the CSM.
Did you not read enough of the pages where he has said several times that he does not agree that low class WH's are "fine"?
I in fact think low class holes to some degree need buffs in income level's to encourage corps to grow further to the size of C5/C6 corps.
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kapolov
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 10:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bloemkoolsaus wrote:kapolov wrote:Did you not read enough of the pages where he has said several times that he does not agree that low class WH's are "fine"? You must have missed all the response he got on that.
You must have missed where he has ignored all those responses.
Just like the response to the other complaints.
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kapolov
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 21:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
@ Two Step
Can we have a CSM Town hall style meeting with you and leaders of most of the notable WH space entities, i think this would end threads like this reaching over 20 pages of confusing and trolls like me. |
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