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galphi Gallente Wrecking Shots -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.10.18 13:25:00 - [1] Current Hel bonus is irrelevant as you know, hope it gets an update for this expansion. Ok I got it - change the remote rep bonus to a 10% shield HP bonus per carrier level. Bam! Done
Bobbechk North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.10.18 16:29:00 - [2] Originally by: galphi Current Hel bonus is irrelevant as you know, hope it gets an update for this expansion. Ok I got it - change the remote rep bonus to a 10% shield HP bonus per carrier level. Bam! Done Bam! change that to armor bonus instead and someone would actually use them bam! ________
John Caffeine Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2010.10.18 17:11:00 - [3] Obviously Hel pilots like being special, so why not give them a bonus to structure HP per level? On a serious note, the Hel's slot layout makes it a natural shield tanker, so unless CCP intend to change that layout, a shield HP bonus per level would be more natural than an armor bonus.
galphi Gallente Wrecking Shots -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.10.19 08:14:00 - [4] There are already two armour tanking supercarriers (Aeon, Nyx) so it's natural for the Hel to remain shield based. If anything, the Nidhoggur should be made into a shield tanker (6 mid 5 low) to bring it in line with it's larger counterpart.
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2010.10.19 10:07:00 - [5] Edited by: Lindsay Logan on 19/10/2010 10:08:58 Originally by: Bobbechk Originally by: galphi Current Hel bonus is irrelevant as you know, hope it gets an update for this expansion. Ok I got it - change the remote rep bonus to a 10% shield HP bonus per carrier level. Bam! Done Bam! change that to armor bonus instead and someone would actually use them bam! Because more armor tanking is what we really need Originally by: galphi There are already two armour tanking supercarriers (Aeon, Nyx) so it's natural for the Hel to remain shield based. If anything, the Nidhoggur should be made into a shield tanker (6 mid 5 low) to bring it in line with it's larger counterpart. This
trady mctradsytrade	Posted - 2010.10.19 11:22:00 - [6] give it the same slot layout as the nyx, then it dosent matter what you do with the bonus cos it will still be in reguarded as usefull.
Companion Trollin You are going too fast	Posted - 2010.10.19 11:37:00 - [7] Edited by: Companion Trollin on 19/10/2010 11:38:12 I think the hel needs an 18% vertical rotation per skill level - at V the ship would be fully vertical. That should fix everything. ♥ Originally by: CCP Shadow Off-topic posts dealing with sexual orientation have been removed. Please keep this discussion on-topic. Thanks. -- Shadow
Jun Soroni	Posted - 2010.10.19 17:00:00 - [8] Hel should have bonuses to fighters tracking (10% per level) and fighter bomber (if it behaves like missiles, bonus to sigradius), making hel more efficient against smaller targets. hence we have aeon and wyvern (tank monsters) nyx (well you all know what nyx is for) hel (this ROLE i mentioned before) will keep the things still at the same level.
xttz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.10.19 19:18:00 - [9] The Hel just needs one bonus to fix it. -20% training time reduction to any other racial carrier skill
xttz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.10.19 19:22:00 - [10] Per level
geilesding	Posted - 2010.10.20 07:40:00 - [11] I think a bonus on FB / Fighter MWD Speed would be a greate deal.
Lee Janssen Legacy of the Lantean Ancients x Lucian Alliance x	Posted - 2010.10.20 08:06:00 - [12] Edited by: Lee Janssen on 20/10/2010 08:08:22 I think that Minmatar carrier 5 should unlock the skill: Win and when Win is trained 5, the mere presence of a Hel on grid with any other ship ends up with them leaving in pods... oR better yet, them just appearing in their clone stations. - Damn it, out of duct tape again.
TestPilot PleaseIgnore	Posted - 2010.10.20 08:23:00 - [13] All kidding aside, we all know that the Hel's current bonus is a joke. Where is the promised change in it's bonuses CCP? Suprise us please
galphi Gallente Wrecking Shots -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.10.20 08:50:00 - [14] Yes at this point any change is good change. Pick a new bonus and go with it!
Jun Soroni	Posted - 2010.10.20 12:44:00 - [15] Still i need something better on Hel as someone said any bonus other than remote repair will be better, all i want is give the ship a purpose. so the players could break it and have more fun with it. i still think that any tank bonuses to Hel is Crap, MEGACRAP. i would train for AEON instead.
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2010.10.20 13:07:00 - [16] how about the hel gets a bonus cargo hold like the primae for all livestock and perishable goods
Sweet Slayer	Posted - 2010.10.20 14:19:00 - [17] Originally by: Jun Soroni ...any tank bonuses to Hel is Crap, MEGACRAP... 15% velocity bonus per capital ship level and a 5% Fighterbomber speed per Fighterbomber level would be a welcome surprise
Major Graft	Posted - 2010.10.20 17:52:00 - [18] This has been the most informative carrier thread i have ever seen. I'm about to start training for one. could you guys say why the useful carriers are useful? I'm glad I know not to head down the mini route ;)
galphi Gallente Wrecking Shots -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.10.21 04:40:00 - [19] Nidhoggur is good if you plan on going for the best triage carrier, otherwise gallente or amarr would be the better option for staying alive or dps. They have the best supercarriers at this point too, though that might change if ccp fix the Hel.
Vanderie Amarr Ignatium.	Posted - 2010.10.21 04:45:00 - [20] Originally by: galphi Nidhoggur is good if you plan on going for the best triage carrier, otherwise gallente or amarr would be the better option for staying alive or dps. They have the best supercarriers at this point too, though that might change if ccp fix the Hel. The Nidhoggur is the best triage carrier if you are an EFT warrior and assume that it must be the best because of it's bonuses. In reality, the Nidhoggur is one of the worst triage carriers around, due mainly to it's slot layout where it cannot fit enough recharge to efficiently keep its capacitor alive. The archon is a FAR better choice all around, with the Thanatos coming in as a distant second; no carrier really compares to the Archon in terms of triage-ability. ----------
Jun Soroni	Posted - 2010.10.21 11:32:00 - [21] i think you are looking under other perspective... Niddhogur has a more Logistic Role than all the others carriers. but... we are discussing HEL bonuses. as soon as the SuperCarrier change came the Hel Bonuses should be changed... What i suggest here is: 1) give a bonus to HEL to replade the remote rep bonus(be as crazy as you want) 2) Justify the role when compared to the other SuperCarriers. Ex. i mentioned before 1) 10% tracking to fighter, 5% less sigradius on Fighter Bombers 2) hit smaller targets (ex. Battleships/BCs) more efficiently
galphi Gallente Wrecking Shots -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.10.21 12:06:00 - [22] Originally by: Vanderie The Nidhoggur is the best triage carrier if you are an EFT warrior and assume that it must be the best because of it's bonuses. In reality, the Nidhoggur is one of the worst triage carriers around, due mainly to it's slot layout where it cannot fit enough recharge to efficiently keep its capacitor alive. The archon is a FAR better choice all around, with the Thanatos coming in as a distant second; no carrier really compares to the Archon in terms of triage-ability. Not to get off topic, but this is correct. I've been flying a Niddy for over two years but I actually had to go to eft to see what sort of general numbers the archon can do. Much better cap. As for the ability to hit smaller targets, that's not what supercarriers are supposed to be about. But perhaps if the Hel got an agility bonus, it could be better for hit-and-run tactics, where it can warp out a lot quicker.
Jun Soroni	Posted - 2010.10.21 12:56:00 - [23] Originally by: galphi Originally by: Vanderie The Nidhoggur is the best triage carrier if you are an EFT warrior and assume that it must be the best because of it's bonuses. In reality, the Nidhoggur is one of the worst triage carriers around, due mainly to it's slot layout where it cannot fit enough recharge to efficiently keep its capacitor alive. The archon is a FAR better choice all around, with the Thanatos coming in as a distant second; no carrier really compares to the Archon in terms of triage-ability. Not to get off topic, but this is correct. I've been flying a Niddy for over two years but I actually had to go to eft to see what sort of general numbers the archon can do. Much better cap. As for the ability to hit smaller targets, that's not what supercarriers are supposed to be about. But perhaps if the Hel got an agility bonus, it could be better for hit-and-run tactics, where it can warp out a lot quicker. well you guys want to discuss what bonuses HEL might have or the sex of angels? put your ideas in a format and lets improve my lovelly ship :)
Fujin MarketAgent	Posted - 2010.12.13 10:49:00 - [24] necro necro necro But wish ccp would look at this, as they have stated themselves that the current Bonus is not fitting the new super carriers role.
So Cash	Posted - 2010.12.13 12:59:00 - [25] Edited by: So Cash on 13/12/2010 12:59:55 5% bonus to capacitor usage of target painting modules ?
1600 RT	Posted - 2010.12.13 15:29:00 - [26] Originally by: So Cash Edited by: So Cash on 13/12/2010 12:59:55 5% bonus to capacitor usage of target painting modules ? make it to capital target painters
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2010.12.13 16:34:00 - [27] "Slave" implants secondary bonus fix: "...does not work for capital and super-capital ships". -- Thanks CCP for cu
Lee Janssen CONCARD	Posted - 2010.12.14 08:06:00 - [28] Originally by: Tonto Auri "Slave" implants secondary bonus fix: "...does not work for capital and super-capital ships". You ****... Don't you dare mess up the armor tank, DONT YOU DARE! - Damn it, out of duct tape again.**
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2010.12.14 09:22:00 - [29] Originally by: Tonto Auri "Slave" implants secondary bonus fix: "...does not work for capital and super-capital ships". And: "The extra armour given by Slave implants must be repped up upon every session change".
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2010.12.15 16:18:00 - [30] Originally by: Lee Janssen Originally by: Tonto Auri "Slave" implants secondary bonus fix: "...does not work for capital and super-capital ships". You ****... Don't you dare mess up the armor tank, DONT YOU DARE! I'm not a ****, and i'm using armor tank on most of my characters. -- Thanks CCP for cu
Headerman Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.16 04:48:00 - [31] Edited by: Headerman on 16/12/2010 04:50:25 Switch the damage bonus from the Nyx to the Hel, and give the Nyx an extra bonus to deployed drones per level over other SCs. This would keep it in line with Minmatar doing extra attack damage that their sub cap ships can do, and it would keep the Nyx in line with the Gallente being the best at drone control. So the SCs would have bonuses like: Aeon: 5% bonus to resists per level Nyx: 5% extra drones deployed per level (whatever that equates to) Hel: 5% extra drone damage per level Wyvern: 5% extra resists per level Copy this bonus for the nyx down to the thanatos, but give the Niddy alot more cap and PG to do it's job at RR better.
Kuhn Arashi Caldari	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:50:00 - [32] Originally by: Lee Janssen Originally by: Tonto Auri "Slave" implants secondary bonus fix: "...does not work for capital and super-capital ships". You ******... Don't you dare mess up the armor tank, DONT YOU DARE! you can have your slave set Just give me capital compatible crystals. Imagine making shield capitals Useful. its amazing when you think about it. Just shoving my caldari all up in your pvp with that one.
Inquisitor Dresari	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:31:00 - [33] Don't think the others carriers should be changed, since Carrier are supposed to fill the role logistics and Super carriers are supposed to be the pew <at least that what they keep telling me..... > Carrier big thing is supposed to be fighters and Bombers right that's why they're there, why not give the Hel a DRONE bonus over a fighter/bomber bonus, that doesn't throw it out over the rest <or shouldn't> give it the role of keeping the smaller ships off the backs of the bigger ships maybe, not sure how OP that might become. Unless that would just throw the power of the hels drones well over the damage capacity of a wing of fighters or bombers on their intended targets, <like ogre 2's out performing bombers on a station or pos> if this would require an change in of a lot of drones numbers then forget I said any thing, I didn't theory craft this EFT it <can you even do that? > plugged in any numbers on any calculator, it's just an idea, I want to see something different, can equip a rust cannon or something, pew pew OXIDIZE !!!! seriously we don't need a logistics Super Carrier
Anthony Leo Caldari Reluctant Warriors SpaceMonkey's Alliance	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:47:00 - [34] Originally by: Kuhn Arashi Originally by: Lee Janssen Originally by: Tonto Auri "Slave" implants secondary bonus fix: "...does not work for capital and super-capital ships". You ******... Don't you dare mess up the armor tank, DONT YOU DARE! you can have your slave set Just give me capital compatible crystals. Imagine making shield capitals Useful. its amazing when you think about it. Just shoving my caldari all up in your pvp with that one. I agree, I want some Capital compatible shield crystals. The armor guys get theirs, come on CCP, toss some love to us shield tankers.
Ragger Dark	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:49:00 - [35] As someone who cross trained from my nidhoggur to gallente because the hel is such a pile of crap - feel free to you know, fix the hel.
Headerman Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.16 21:51:00 - [36] Another option is to give it a BIG bonus to shield boost amount per level... say, like 100% on a cap shield booster per level?
Galtiner Gallente Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.16 23:10:00 - [37] Give the Hel the ability to dock so you can reprocess it and use the components to build an Aeon or Nyx.
Lee Janssen CONCARD	Posted - 2010.12.16 23:11:00 - [38] Originally by: Anthony Leo Originally by: Kuhn Arashi Originally by: Lee Janssen Originally by: Tonto Auri "Slave" implants secondary bonus fix: "...does not work for capital and super-capital ships". You ****... Don't you dare mess up the armor tank, DONT YOU DARE! you can have your slave set Just give me capital compatible crystals. Imagine making shield capitals Useful. its amazing when you think about it. Just shoving my caldari all up in your pvp with that one. I agree, I want some Capital compatible shield crystals. The armor guys get theirs, come on CCP, toss some love to us shield tankers. Crystals are NEVER going to work with cap shield boosters. Braw - Damn it, out of duct tape again.**
Headerman Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.17 01:44:00 - [39] Originally by: Galtiner Give the Hel the ability to dock so you can reprocess it and use the components to build an Aeon or Nyx. lol quiet you What about a bonus to tracking for fighters and fighters bombers per level, so they can hit sub caps alot harder than others? And normalise shield amounts on both the Hel and the Wyvern with the armour amount of the Nyx and Aeon respectively
justin666	Posted - 2010.12.17 08:34:00 - [40] Originally by: galphi Current Hel bonus is irrelevant as you know, hope it gets an update for this expansion. Ok I got it - change the remote rep bonus to a 10% shield HP bonus per carrier level. Bam! Done i think it should get a decent booster rep bonus bit like a maelstrom (better than nothing) because id defo prefer that over the current bonus but tbh this 10 percent hp bonus aint a bad idea me thinks
Marlona Sky Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.12.17 09:50:00 - [41] How about the Hel gets engine trails instead of the bonus?
Alexander Det1989 Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.12.17 17:39:00 - [42] Originally by: galphi There are already two armour tanking supercarriers (Aeon, Nyx) so it's natural for the Hel to remain shield based. If anything, the Nidhoggur should be made into a shield tanker (6 mid 5 low) to bring it in line with it's larger counterpart. Niddy did actually used to be 6 mid 5 low, but people moaned so it became an armour carrier.
Hans Geering	Posted - 2010.12.17 17:49:00 - [43] Active tanking bonuses would be useless in any fleet environment. What do SCs get used for? Massive DPS Massive EHP ummm, that is pretty much it. Note that the successful hulls have bonuses to one of those two things. You need to figure out a way to buff it's DPS a bit, and it's EHP a bit. Say 2-3% resists per level, 2-3% drone DPS per level. You'd have a jack of all trades that at least was viable.
Headerman Minmatar Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.26 07:35:00 - [44] Give FBs a 5% bonus to tracking per level or so, so they have a role: deployed to destroy subcaps
Marlona Sky Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.12.26 09:07:00 - [45] Originally by: Headerman Give FBs a 5% bonus to tracking per level or so, so they have a role: deployed to destroy subcaps No trolling please.
Zhintha	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:20:00 - [46] God, i wish they would have a look at this soon :(
Linas IV	Posted - 2011.01.11 17:24:00 - [47] Well since this isn't getting the attention it should, I'll try to point out again the main reasons why the Hel bonus should be changed, and what other improvements are needed overall. 1. Fitting multiple RRs on Supercarriers isn't viable: a: Cap-Recharge on EHP-fit SCs is horrible and getting neuted is a deadly threat in actual combat (=> no cap to spare) b: Fitting for Cap will waste roughly 2/3 of the potential EHP (Huge loss, because Supercaps can't active-tank opposed to all other shipclasses) c: You can't fit Triage, therfore Carriers are much better suited for RR-duties overall. => The current RR-Bonus is Pointless, or SCs themselves need an overhaul 2. Possible new Bonusses for the Hel: a: 5%-7.5% less Explosionradius on Fighterbombers per level (This will roughly increase the DPS against a average BS by 30%-40%; hardly game breaking) b: 7.5%-10% Shield-HP per level as stated before to bring it in line with the other SCs EHP c: 1 additional Drone Per level (damage-wise on par with the Nyx, but has to rely more on spare Fighterbombers) d: 1 additional Drone on each fitted Drone Control Unit up to 5 at lv 5 3. Shield-Capitals need an overhaul a: The Shield-HP Gangbonus needs to be applied right away, not through recharge. (is there any reason why this hasn't changed over the last years?) b: Shieldtankers need an equivalent to Slave-implants (or Slaves shouldn't work on Capitals) Well thats about it, and if someone thinks that nothing need changing with SCs atm, the current ratio ingame is roughly 10:4:2:1 (Nyx:Aeon:Wyvern:Hel)
Headerman Minmatar Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.01.11 23:29:00 - [48] Edited by: Headerman on 11/01/2011 23:29:39 Also another possible bonus for the Hel: 5% increase of Rate of Fire for Fighters and Fighter bombers per level. Very similar damage as the Nyx, but not the same bonus. Shield HP of the Hel should be indexed to the amour HP of the Nyx. Shield HP bonus implants could be indexed to CONCORD, as nearly all other factions are accounted for.
Linas IV	Posted - 2011.01.14 10:43:00 - [49] A Dev-reply would be really appreciated, let's hope it won't stay "broken" like the Naglfar for years.
Kisena Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.01.15 22:45:00 - [50] they might as well fix the naglfar while they are at it... :P
Zagdul Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2011.01.16 18:57:00 - [51] The Hel is on point with EHP/Damage, the rest are overpowered. Nerf SC's.
MastahFR	Posted - 2011.02.27 22:56:00 - [52] Yes, balance the super carriers. So we might see something else than 36 nyx and 15 aeon hotdroping...
Headerman Minmatar Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.02.28 02:18:00 - [53] Originally by: Kisena they might as well fix the naglfar while they are at it... :P wth... The Nag is the best dread!
McFly Peanut Factory Good Sax	Posted - 2011.02.28 11:58:00 - [54] 5% rof fighters and fighter bombers. then hel/nyx are dps bonused and aeon/wyvern are tank bonused. Yes yes we know the Hel's attributes are for shield tanking. But 9/10 Hel Pilots are tanking on armor for a reason. Capital warfare is naturally leaned toward armor tanks due to cap use, fitting and available pilots. Caldari - all ships tanked on shield Minmatar - Split Tanked (meaning minnie pilots train armor at some point) Amarr - all ships tanked on armor Gallente - all ships tanked on armor The Result: Pilots in eve naturally >=50% armor capable.
Headerman Minmatar Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.02.28 22:26:00 - [55] Hell the Hel is Minmatar and the Minnis have a split weapons system right? Chuck 4 turret hard points on it.
Mastah Mazoku	Posted - 2011.03.01 16:58:00 - [56] So CCP, anything plan for the HEL ?
xttz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.01 18:30:00 - [57] -5% training time to other racial carrier skills per level
Lee Janssen CONCARD Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.02 09:49:00 - [58] Originally by: xttz -5% training time to other racial carrier skills per level This - Damn it, out of duct tape again.
Desert Ice78 Gryphon River Industries R-I-P	Posted - 2011.03.03 02:26:00 - [59] As a matter of interest and education guys, knowing that carriers/ supers are in essence glorified logistic ships with dps, why is it that the bonus of the Hel is so useless in fleet warfare? From my uneducated perspective, it would appear that the Hel is the purest of the supercarreirs, doing best what they were always meant to be doing. Please feel free to dispell my illusions.
5ilent 5hift Amarr Daj'Juntar	Posted - 2011.03.05 15:05:00 - [60] Edited by: 5ilent 5hift on 05/03/2011 15:06:02 Originally by: Linas IV 2. Possible new Bonusses for the Hel: b: 7.5%-10% Shield-HP per level as stated before to bring it in line with the other SCs EHP 3. Shield-Capitals need an overhaul a: The Shield-HP Gangbonus needs to be applied right away, not through recharge. (is there any reason why this hasn't changed over the last years?) b: Shieldtankers need an equivalent to Slave-implants Implement these 3 and I will officially love CCP... And I'm not even a Hel pilot. Edit: God my spelling sucks.

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