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enV us
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Posted - 2010.10.26 23:25:00 -
[1]
Edited by: enV us on 26/10/2010 23:28:46 I think its funny that CCP is seriously considering nerfing the drake. When you consider that Caldari ships in general have been far lacking in PVP ability for years now, it seems down right vindictive. Lets examine some common arguements. 1. Low SP needed to fly one. A. A low sp pilot flying one will die in it just as easily as a low sp pilot in any other ship. And what are low sp pilots not allowed to engage in this enjoyable activity now? 2. Doesn't have to choose between gank and tank. B. Am I the only one that realizes that a standard gank fit drake does much less DPS than other BC's and has only marginally higher EHP? If you fit a point and SEBO or web the tank is not that extreme. (those mods are needed for gank fits.) 3. Increase in number of drake fleets being used... C. Simple it is the answer to armor hac fleets...which can still be fielded effectively vs a drake fleet...
CALDARI IS JUNK FOR PVP-if every new pilot was told in depth about the differences between the races with respect to PVP every single one would choose the real racial ships that need nerfed MINMATAR. Minmatar is the primary choice for any solo pvper on all levels of ships Frigate on up. They are fast...Do alot of DPS...Do not require heavy SP to operate, and are the only turrets that don't use cap and have massive fall offs. Thus making them much easier to TANK AND GANK. Don't even get me started and the Angel Cartel faction ships...
If CCP nerfs the drake they are seriously insane... Throw those poor souls that chose caldari to start a bone...we have nothing.
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enV us
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Posted - 2010.10.26 23:30:00 -
[2]
PLUS WHAT THE HELL give the retribution 1 more mid slot...seriously...
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TriadSte
Gallente Adeptus Arbites
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Posted - 2010.10.26 23:40:00 -
[3]
The Drake is a Battlecruiser which tanks like a battleship. This is wrong, you only speak of the Drake in PVP terms when Its also a mission boat does plexs and wormholes etc.
I love the Drake myself but in honesty it has too much tank for a Battlecruiser can hit 300 Passive recharge per second. Compare that to a large T2 armor repairer on a gallente ship which will rep 900 in about 9 seconds which is 100 rep per second. The Drake has three times the rep amount.
Does it need a nerf? IMHO no I'd like it to stay as is.
Should it get a nerf to balance out the BC ship classes of all 4 races, I think so yes.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.10.26 23:58:00 -
[4]
Originally by: TriadSte The Drake is a Battlecruiser which tanks like a battleship. This is wrong, you only speak of the Drake in PVP terms when Its also a mission boat does plexs and wormholes etc.
I love the Drake myself but in honesty it has too much tank for a Battlecruiser can hit 300 Passive recharge per second. Compare that to a large T2 armor repairer on a gallente ship which will rep 900 in about 9 seconds which is 100 rep per second. The Drake has three times the rep amount.
Does it need a nerf? IMHO no I'd like it to stay as is.
Should it get a nerf to balance out the BC ship classes of all 4 races, I think so yes.
a purger fitted drake is not really the reason why CCP thinks that the drake needs a nerf. you might want to read that long thread again.
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masternerdguy
Gallente Valor Inc. Valor Empire
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Posted - 2010.10.27 00:08:00 -
[5]
I think drakes are balanced fine. They fill a more pve oriented role and can still do well in pvp. if ccp nerf drakes you'll be better of using a caracal, because when CCP nerfs, oh they nerf.
nerf baby nerf
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Sakura Shiro
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Posted - 2010.10.27 01:26:00 -
[6]
your quick recharge tank drake you want nerfed is a pve drake. PVe drakes double as bait drakes. Bait drake is not a pvp drake. It don't fight back to well....just takes alot of punches.
Bait drakes are many compromises...dps the big one (moar spr, less bcu means some crap dps), resists another. Your biggest problem if you get these bait drakes is not the drake tbh...where there is bait, there usually is tackle. And the gang looking to make you a km once tackled.
If you take a bait drake without the dps to push it, nerfs and buff can't fix stupid game play lol. Drake nerfed...player still makes bad calls. they will die to something else. Probably a bait arazu with sb's in wait for a cyno. I know this...been there.
Hit bait drakes and did not have the dps for them. Learned..bait ='s tackle ='s fast way home. Moved on to bigger and better stupid mistakes. Like one time I had this strange thought I got this uncloaked arazu sitting by the gate doing nothing. Gonna get me my first solo kill and make it a good one, solo t2 cruiser km FTW. IIRC got him to less than 50% armor...then I met his friends. His friends very friendly. We played a game of catch. They threw torps at me...I caught them all very well lol. I would have thrown something back....falcon in the crew jammed me :(.
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Kail Storm
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.10.27 03:22:00 -
[7]
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: TriadSte The Drake is a Battlecruiser which tanks like a battleship. This is wrong, you only speak of the Drake in PVP terms when Its also a mission boat does plexs and wormholes etc.
I love the Drake myself but in honesty it has too much tank for a Battlecruiser can hit 300 Passive recharge per second. Compare that to a large T2 armor repairer on a gallente ship which will rep 900 in about 9 seconds which is 100 rep per second. The Drake has three times the rep amount.
Does it need a nerf? IMHO no I'd like it to stay as is.
Should it get a nerf to balance out the BC ship classes of all 4 races, I think so yes.
a purger fitted drake is not really the reason why CCP thinks that the drake needs a nerf. you might want to read that long thread again.
Where is CCP`s statemnt, all I saw was Chronitus Saying they would keep it in mind but dont like to effect, current game tactics. Where is this thread that CCP says they are thinking about it? -------------------------------------------------- "If Eve Was P*rn, It would be a Snuff film, First you get screwed then you get killed" -Me
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.10.27 10:21:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kail Storm Where is CCP`s statemnt, all I saw was Chronitus Saying they would keep it in mind but dont like to effect, current game tactics. Where is this thread that CCP says they are thinking about it?
TL;DR version is: - in lag shield and cap recharge still runs at kinda realtime. that allows your drake to run their MWD permanent and not just a minute or two and also keeps your shield recharge running all the time. - damage is hindered by lag, modules not cycling that leads to the problem that passive shield recharge becomes noticable as the damage is not realtime anymore
so a stupid approach would be "we nerf the recharge of the drake so the lagged damage can still kill them". but this would be only fixing a symptom and not really fixing the issue. as it would still allow them to perma run their mwd e.g.. on top of that ... the shield recharge of the other BCs isnt much worse than the drake's, but the drake benefits most from it due to resist bonuses. Though if you are going to nerf the recharge, you hit the PVE folks more than the PVPers. Maybe the small gang pvpers a bit, but not so much the fleet pvp folks as they would still come with logistics.
so the real fix would be fixing the cause for the lag or optimizing the code so it can handle the situations better.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.10.27 12:02:00 -
[9]
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: TriadSte The Drake is a Battlecruiser which tanks like a battleship. This is wrong, you only speak of the Drake in PVP terms when Its also a mission boat does plexs and wormholes etc.
I love the Drake myself but in honesty it has too much tank for a Battlecruiser can hit 300 Passive recharge per second. Compare that to a large T2 armor repairer on a gallente ship which will rep 900 in about 9 seconds which is 100 rep per second. The Drake has three times the rep amount.
Does it need a nerf? IMHO no I'd like it to stay as is.
Should it get a nerf to balance out the BC ship classes of all 4 races, I think so yes.
a purger fitted drake is not really the reason why CCP thinks that the drake needs a nerf. you might want to read that long thread again.
I think he was talking about PvE, where the Drake also shines. And I'd say that's a valid point. Other ships, which are good at PvP, are not viable in PvE. I mean, yes you can run missions in a Brutix. But does it compare to the easy-mode of a Drake? So the Drake is an all around attractive ship, plus easier to fly and faster to train. It is an imbalance inside the BC class.
Of course the major point of concern is that it has the base shield hp of a tier1 battleship.. thus sick buffer tank.
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Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.10.27 12:03:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 27/10/2010 12:05:32 Right, there seem to be the usual number of misinformed idiots in this thread, so let's clear up a few misconceptions right now:
Quote: I love the Drake myself but in honesty it has too much tank for a Battlecruiser can hit 300 Passive recharge per second.
Firstly - A properly fit PVP Drake does not have this kind of passive recharge. You are referring to a PVE Drake, which is completely irrelevant when talking about nerfs.
I also notice when fools like you are talking about nerfing the Drake because of its PVE performance, they don't talk about nerfing the Ishtar which can perform ridiculously well at that.
Quote: 1. Low SP needed to fly one.
Yes, a low SP pilot can sit in a Drake relatively fast, and do missions in it. To fly one well on the other hand is another story. To get a proper HML fit on, your CPU skills need to be superb - and t2 launchers are basically required to get half-decent DPS out of it because the meta 3 and 4 run for a few mil and 13mil respectively, completely destroying the whole cost effectiveness thing people bleat about.
And when you start talking about t2 HMLs, well, it becomes about as skill intensive as any other BC.
Quote: 2. Doesn't have to choose between gank and tank.
Yes, this is the advantage of shield tanking. I don't see what the big problem is here. What it does have to chose between is tank and utility. An armour tanked Myrm has 5 mids to do whatever it likes with, an armour Harby can mount cap booster+point+web alongside its tank and quite a lot of gank.
The Drake on the other hand, typically uses a 3slot shield tank+MWD, after that it has 2 mids spare (and virtually no grid left), which are usually point/TP/web, basically the usual stuff everyone else fits. It's also got the smallest drone bay of all the tier 2 BCs and won't be packing a medium neut with any sensible fit.
The Drake is good for one role: standard tank+dps ship. If a ship can only really do one thing, it should do it damn well. _________________________________
ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS... |
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Aerilis
Gallente Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.10.27 12:45:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Aerilis on 27/10/2010 12:49:58
Originally by: enV us
2. Doesn't have to choose between gank and tank. B. Am I the only one that realizes that a standard gank fit drake does much less DPS than other BC's and has only marginally higher EHP? If you fit a point and SEBO or web the tank is not that extreme. (those mods are needed for gank fits.)
You have got to be kidding me... HAM Drake gets nearly 700 DPS (779 if you OH launchers) that can hit out to 18km, over 80k EHP, and 2 mid slots for point/web/sebo(why would you use a sebo?)
edit- Caldari ships are bad at PvP in general, yes, but that's not an excuse for having one OP ship. Nerf Drake, boost the other ships.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.10.27 13:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek I think he was talking about PvE, where the Drake also shines. And I'd say that's a valid point. Other ships, which are good at PvP, are not viable in PvE. I mean, yes you can run missions in a Brutix. But does it compare to the easy-mode of a Drake? So the Drake is an all around attractive ship, plus easier to fly and faster to train. It is an imbalance inside the BC class.
Of course the major point of concern is that it has the base shield hp of a tier1 battleship.. thus sick buffer tank.
1. as mentioned in the long thread. the claim of people that you cant use other BCs in PVE is just because people are lazy. e.g. passive shield myrm with ACS is just as easy mode, similar DPS no tanking trouble or so. personally i use even active cyclones and shield buffer tanked canes for lvl4s. just because drakes or battleships are boring after a while.
2. shield hp ... the HP difference for armor/shield/structure of a cane to a phoon/tempest isnt much bigger either. so this argument is kind of mood.
3. yes some BCs are more viable for PVE than others. if the brutix doesnt cut it, use the myrm. (havent tried the ferox either)
4. what makes it easier to train for a drake than lets say ... a brutix? or ferox? you might save a few days on missile skills as you wont need standard missiles 5 and standard missile spec 4, but i doubt it makes much off a difference.
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Thorazin
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Posted - 2010.10.27 13:03:00 -
[13]
Drake doesnt need a nerf its a tank ship and its role is bait.
Nerf it and destroy the ship and caldari race
Keep doing crappy moves CCP and i hope many ppl quit i am thinking to quit because i got bored of flying the ship with clicking mouse (yes i rly want a joystick support me and other 1 million ppl that instead of buying eve they gone buy something else that is not as boring as eve and it support joystick controls) so nerf drake i am gone i know the small comunity of eve doesnt care but it wont be only me who is gone quit, the community is already small if a small bunch of ppl quit it will get smaller eve space will be empty and game will be ruined instead of nerfing drake idea do something good for the game and add a joystick support genius!
gone quit anyway i think even if you dont nerf drake my RL friend already quit cause got bored of the game (no joystick support, unbalanced&unfair&complicated pvp)(personally i like the second reason he quited :P)
omg drake doesnt need nerf in the name of the god and all goodness in the world......
just imagine if they nerf drake how eve would be.....fail.... caldari ships will dissapear and even other races will cry for loosing a decent shield tanking BC
is drake OP? NO its not its dps sucks bigtime even as tank i cant find it OP cause the same racial 5% resistance per lvl applies to 100 other ships in eve that actually have much better dps than the poor drake.
OMFG i cant belive the genius who came up with the idea to nerf the drake
nerf it and next month instead of 15 euro u get nothing from me i promise that my patience is running out.
if you want my stuff GTFO come and get them. |
Czert ElPrezidente
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.10.27 13:05:00 -
[14]
I drake need something, then it is 5% boost to thier PG. :). ------------------------------------------------
Signature removed not EVE related - Adida |
Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.10.27 13:39:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 27/10/2010 13:41:59
Quote: You have got to be kidding me... HAM Drake gets nearly 700 DPS (779 if you OH launchers) that can hit out to 18km, over 80k EHP, and 2 mid slots for point/web/sebo(why would you use a sebo?)
Where the hell have you been for the rest of the Drake debate? The fit that's bringing the ship under scrutiny is the fleet HML Drake, which is only that good because they're backed up with 20-odd Scimitars.
Besides, how about getting your facts straight before making an idiot of yourself? Yes, a HAM-Drake gets nearly 700 dps - the actual number is 677, which is with terror rage and tri-BCU (a fit that needs maxed out power grid skills and/or an implant to work properly) but it does not get that in practice "out to 18k" because it suffers serious damage reductions on anything but a large, webbed target. This restricts its range to more like 10k if it wants to get proper use out of those weapons.
More realistically, a faction-ammo HAM-Drake is looking at more like 560 dps, give or take a bit and is not a fit for low-skillpoints.
Quote: caldari ships are bad at PvP in general
Oh and this just shows your ignorance of Caldari ships in general. Stop posting on stuff you have no clue about please. I don't really want my ships messed with because of incompetants like you. _________________________________
ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS... |
Sinner Cain
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Posted - 2010.10.27 15:52:00 -
[16]
See I am against the drake nerf too, I really think they should just boost the other bc's. Bring them more inline with the drakes. You can always tell when a ship is the over powered one in the bunch simply because that's what everyone is flying. You can look at any killboard and almost every major battle report will be filled with drakes. I would love to see a battle report with more than just drakes on it.
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Exploited Engineer
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Posted - 2010.10.27 15:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: TriadSte The Drake is a Battlecruiser which tanks like a battleship.[/QUOTE]
At which point its signature is inflated enough to compare to a battleship, making it vulnerable to battleship-class weapon.
While it can only shoot back with cruiser-class weapons.
[QUOTE]I love the Drake myself but in honesty it has too much tank for a Battlecruiser can hit 300 Passive recharge per second.[/QUOTE]
But how much damage will it do then?
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mchief117
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Posted - 2010.10.27 17:27:00 -
[18]
why are they considering nerfing the drake, i mean oter than the drake how often do you see any other caldari ship in pvp fleets, i have yet to see a raven in mine or the other partys fleet.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.10.28 01:24:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sinner Cain See I am against the drake nerf too, I really think they should just boost the other bc's. Bring them more inline with the drakes. You can always tell when a ship is the over powered one in the bunch simply because that's what everyone is flying. You can look at any killboard and almost every major battle report will be filled with drakes. I would love to see a battle report with more than just drakes on it.
Right, the problem here is they are in line with the Drake, just not for the very specific purpose of long range fleet combat with logistic backup which is what Caldari should excel in. The 1600 plate Harbinger is 20k below the Drake in EHP - but has high dps with good tracking at optimal but what the EFT figures don't show is the fact it's also packing its own medium neut, full tackle and a cap booster.
As I have stated before, the thing the Drake really lacks is utility. If it only has one real role, it should be damn good at it.
If CCP are intending to nerf the Drake for fleet PVP, they should in exchange give it a significant PG buff so it can fit a medium neut or warfare link alongside everything else like the Hurricane can do. _________________________________
ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS... |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.10.28 16:08:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 28/10/2010 16:11:39
Originally by: darius mclever 1. as mentioned in the long thread. the claim of people that you cant use other BCs in PVE is just because people are lazy. e.g. passive shield myrm with ACS is just as easy mode, similar DPS no tanking trouble or so. personally i use even active cyclones and shield buffer tanked canes for lvl4s. just because drakes or battleships are boring after a while.
2. shield hp ... the HP difference for armor/shield/structure of a cane to a phoon/tempest isnt much bigger either. so this argument is kind of mood.
3. yes some BCs are more viable for PVE than others. if the brutix doesnt cut it, use the myrm. (havent tried the ferox either)
4. what makes it easier to train for a drake than lets say ... a brutix? or ferox? you might save a few days on missile skills as you wont need standard missiles 5 and standard missile spec 4, but i doubt it makes much off a difference.
1. No other BC except the Myrm compares to the Drake in PvE. Myrmidon is bad at PvP. That's why I didn't even mention it. 2. Was only intended to depicture the scale of magnitude. I thought every halfway intelligent player could connect that to the other stats like shield resist and med slots, but meh.. 3. Isn't that the same as 1.? Also I was talking about the overall attractiveness (plays well into balance) of BCs. I guess I've even written it like that. But meh.. 4. Personal experience? Been there, done that? Trained up an alt for missions? Drake > anything else for PvE except Myrmidon? Myrmidon bad at PvP? Won't go into detail because (I thought) it's general knowledge?
Are you just trying to pick a fight, or why do you point at meaningless details?
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
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