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How to fix AFK cloaking for good

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Covert Kitty Amarr ISK Solutions SRS.	Posted - 2010.10.28 09:00:00 - [1] Edited by: Covert Kitty on 28/10/2010 09:02:18 Get rid of local. Give the carebares a complementary nightlight, like this one: http://www.amazon.com/Disney-Tinkerbell-Color-Changing-Night/dp/B000WPMDT4 (so they wont be scared of the dark)
Wrecker Red Signal Seven	Posted - 2010.10.28 12:06:00 - [2] +1 ========== WRECKER RED GONNA WRECK YO HEAD
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.10.28 12:23:00 - [3] Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 28/10/2010 12:36:02 Or CCP could add some risk to those cloakers that are otherwise adding potential risk to others. That, in turn, could help these AFK cloakers grow some of these: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/253/521907607_77de5f9232_z.jpg (so they wont be scared of unconsensual PVP) Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Baaldor Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.10.28 12:59:00 - [4] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 28/10/2010 12:45:25 Or CCP could add some risk to those cloakers that are otherwise adding potential risk to others. And then, MAYBE, these AFK cloakers would grow some of these: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/253/521907607_77de5f9232_z.jpg (so they wont be scared of unconsensual PVP) So tell me about "Potential" risk. I am docked in your station...would that be potential risk? I might log in, hop down 10 or 15 systems and shoot you...would be that potential risk? I hop up to empire and suicide gank you.....would that be potential risk? Or is the Potential risk that you speak of, the "non-consensual" PVP you are trying to avoid? And the fact that I am logged in, isn't there the potential of non-consensual surprise seks?
Covert Kitty Amarr ISK Solutions SRS.	Posted - 2010.10.29 01:16:00 - [5] No local and nobody will have to worry about afk people being listed in local. ps: those metal balls are pretty shiny, you must have spent a long time polishing them while running sanctums in complete safety with no effort!
Commander Funyoun	Posted - 2010.10.29 03:53:00 - [6] Ah yes yet another of the thousands (give or take 10 or 20) of AFK CLoaker gripers. Yes remove local or at least remove cloaked ships from local. END OF STORY.
Persona n0ngrata	Posted - 2010.10.29 04:11:00 - [7] Give a real counter to cloaking such as an AOE device and you can get rid of local. As it is now local is the only way for a fleet op or just any corp member during a war to know if somebody is possibly in system gathering info on them cloaked.
Project 69	Posted - 2010.10.29 08:36:00 - [8] I've never been shot by an afk cloaker.... where's the danger?
Covert Kitty Amarr ISK Solutions SRS.	Posted - 2010.10.29 09:07:00 - [9] Quote: local is the only way for a fleet op or just any corp member during a war to know if somebody is possibly in system gathering info on them cloaked. Recon ships doing recon? onoes! Your wrong anyway, spies are plenty effective as well. In any case, Ninja's don't go bang on the door of the shogun's palace before sneaking in. If your ultra worried about it you can always keep a scout at the gate and watch.
mchief117	Posted - 2010.10.29 18:33:00 - [10] Originally by: Baaldor So tell me about "Potential" risk. I am docked in your station...would that be potential risk? I might log in, hop down 10 or 15 systems and shoot you...would be that potential risk? I hop up to empire and suicide gank you.....would that be potential risk? Or is the Potential risk that you speak of, the "non-consensual" PVP you are trying to avoid? And the fact that I am logged in, isn't there the potential of non-consensual surprise seks? (1) you in a station in my system, your able to gather intel on any othe rplayer in the system, report numbers , all with in the invulnerable safty of the station your docked in. (2) not sure what yours saying there (3) you attempt a suicide gank in high sec so chance are the target is flying a PVE ship hence you have the advantage, as you knew you where not coming back you fitted for that and made sure you had insurance. whether you killed your target or failed your ship dies, but due to current mechanics you lose maybe 15-20M at most.

Dave Daze Minmatar Thor's Spite	Posted - 2010.10.29 19:50:00 - [11] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Blah blah blah...(so they wont be scared of unconsensual PVP) wait.. what??!! Your trolling right? incase your not HTFU
Baaldor Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.10.29 20:23:00 - [12] Originally by: mchief117 WHIFF Yeah, you missed that one Cochise. I am trying to figure out if you know the difference between a "Potential" threat verses and "Actual" threat.
Cyn0 A17	Posted - 2010.10.29 21:20:00 - [13] Edited by: Cyn0 A17 on 29/10/2010 21:25:16 Getting rid of local wont get rid of the simi-afk hotdropper/ganking cloaker, and in fact it will make the simi afk covert hot drop/gank cloaker life easier for go to a system kill/covert hotdrop someone go afk cloaked for like an hour then repeat (for a limited time). Then people will not undock in a pve ships in null for they cant combate a 50 man sb hot drop on them, and instead they will get a mission running char and run level 4s in npc corps, and just pew pew in null. The result will still be no more afk cloakers, but the prey aka pve ships will quickly dry up, and all that will be left blobs of pew pew ships. Thus leaving no pve ships to covert ops hotdrop, and who uses bs for 0.0 pvp these days all there will be is bc gang/fleet, hac gang/fleet, and cap fleet. Non of which are good solo or sb hotdrop targets. Well BC might be good sb targets if they are realy clustered together but that would be a bombing run not light a covert cyno on the same grid as them.
MasterEnt	Posted - 2010.10.29 21:22:00 - [14] /signed Still don't know how everyone can confirm this "AFK Cloaking" thing. Cant see what your doing - cant do anything about it.
Covert Kitty Amarr ISK Solutions SRS.	Posted - 2010.10.29 23:50:00 - [15] Quote: Getting rid of local wont get rid of the simi-afk hotdropper/ganking cloaker, and in fact it will make the simi afk covert hot drop/gank cloaker life easier for go to a system kill/covert hotdrop someone go afk cloaked for like an hour then repeat (for a limited time). My guess is that it will in fact reduce small gang dependence on hotdrops. Right now its so ridiculously easy to avoid a fight that the only way you have a shot at catching anyone is via a recon, stealth bomber, or hotdrop. With local removed I think you will see other ships used more frequently than at present. Quote: Then people will not undock in a pve ships in null for they cant combat a 50 man sb hot drop in them, and instead they will get a mission running char and run level 4s in npc corps, and just pew pew in null. I doubt that, it just means you need to be more aware or work together a bit more to secure your space. If getting rid of local winds up over powering covert cyno's (which I doubt) then CCP can look at balancing that later. Quote: The result will still be no more afk cloakers, but the prey aka pve ships will quickly dry up Just like nobody runs wormhole sites because their too scared about getting ganked right? Don't be silly, the one thing nullsec doesn't lack is carebares.
Covert Kitty Amarr ISK Solutions SRS.	Posted - 2010.10.30 00:12:00 - [16] Really though, seriously people. The game of cat and mouse is fun for both the cat and the mouse. I know because I've been the mouse in far more cases than the cat. It feels more rewarding to have evaded the aggressors when you actually have to do a bit more than watch local and dock. In my 9+ months of living in wormholes I've only successfully been ganked while running a site 1 time, and it was my fault. Remember, in your own space you have the logistical advantage, they can't just go get different ships, if your organized you can kick them out quickly.
Geddings	Posted - 2010.10.30 00:22:00 - [17] dont see how removing local would help...wouldn't you want to know if you have someone in your system that is not a friend and that you cant find? would keep you more alert. if a cloaked ship is afk then he is of no real threat is he? the real problem would be a cloaked ship that is NOT afk...what is he doing there...what is his evil plans? you do not know..he is cloaked! I think its just that people are upset if they have cloaked non-friendlies in their systems who are afk. they want so bad to nuke em...but you cant...they are cloaked! You don't have to worry about them. its the fleat of 2000 cloaked stealth bombers who are slowly going towards your afk miners that you need to worry about ;-)
Covert Kitty Amarr ISK Solutions SRS.	Posted - 2010.10.30 01:33:00 - [18] Quote: dont see how removing local would help...wouldn't you want to know if you have someone in your system that is not a friend and that you cant find? No I wouldn't actually, that unknown element is really important to keeping you on your toes. If the only reason you play eve is to run sanctums in perfect safety and occasionally blob people in drakes, then yeah, you might not like the removal of local. Personally I think thats mind-numbingly boring and poor gameplay. Quote: the real problem would be a cloaked ship that is NOT afk...what is he doing there...what is his evil plans? you do not know..he is cloaked! Right, and when he decloaks you can warp off or defend yourself (you were aligned already right?) Quote: they want so bad to nuke em...but you cant...they are cloaked! Correct, covert ships generally fight on their own terms. Theres no reason why you should even know they are there. Nor any ship for that mater, a solar system is a big place, removing local encourages players to become more aware of the solar systems landscape, what is and is not in dscan range, all becomes more important, and thats a good thing. Quote: You don't have to worry about them. its the fleat of 2000 cloaked stealth bombers who are slowly going towards your afk miners that you need to worry about ;-) If you have 2000 stealth bombers in your system you have a lot more to worry about than a few miners. Your statement however highlights just how overpowered local is, because your not thinking about all the other ways of getting information that are already in the game. The jump and active in system map statistics for example, websites like dotlan show this information well also. Those 2000 cloaked ships arent all going to be cloaked, youll see some of it on dscan from time to time, they also all would have had to jump through the gates at some point. Regardless they cant hurt you while they are cloaked anyway, and SB's are easy to counter in combat. But no, if you somehow didn't notice 2000 ships coming into the system then you fail really hard lol.
Allestin Villimar Zebra Corp	Posted - 2010.10.30 05:27:00 - [19] Originally by: Covert Kitty Right, and when he decloaks you can warp off or defend yourself (you were aligned already right?) Ah so it's perfectly ok to force someone else to be on their toes constantly without having to be so yourself. ...in bed.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.10.30 13:31:00 - [20] Originally by: Allestin Villimar Originally by: Covert Kitty Right, and when he decloaks you can warp off or defend yourself (you were aligned already right?) Ah so it's perfectly ok to force someone else to be on their toes constantly without having to be so yourself. Well said. Unfortunately, the replies from these idiots will be along the lines of "HTFU", as if it's some how relevant to the point at hand. AFK cloakers aren't interested in unconsensual PVP to themselves. They only want to be able to provide it to others. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!

fhyuiowauhsipabraphsprai	Posted - 2010.10.30 17:00:00 - [21] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: Allestin Villimar Originally by: Covert Kitty Right, and when he decloaks you can warp off or defend yourself (you were aligned already right?) Ah so it's perfectly ok to force someone else to be on their toes constantly without having to be so yourself. Well said. Unfortunately, the replies from these idiots will be along the lines of "HTFU", as if it's some how relevant to the point at hand. AFK cloakers aren't interested in unconsensual PVP to themselves. They only want to be able to provide it to others. /thread
Xorv	Posted - 2010.10.31 02:30:00 - [22] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 AFK cloakers aren't interested in unconsensual PVP to themselves. They only want to be able to provide it to others. Every time a cloaker jumps through a gate, and every time they attack someone they expose themselves to potentially unwanted/unfavorable PvP circumstances. Removing Local Chat would actually increase the potential for a trap/ambush of the cloaker. AFK cloakers on the other hand aren't interested in PvP consensual or otherwise, in fact they're probably not interested in anything EVE related, because they're "Away From Keyboard".
Kabaal S'sylistha Caldari The Technomages Comrades-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.10.31 03:32:00 - [23] Originally by: Xorv Every time a cloaker jumps through a gate, and every time they attack someone they expose themselves to potentially unwanted/unfavorable PvP circumstances. Removing Local Chat would actually increase the potential for a trap/ambush of the cloaker. AFK cloakers on the other hand aren't interested in PvP consensual or otherwise, in fact they're probably not interested in anything EVE related, because they're "Away From Keyboard". This debate is an infinite loop. Obviously it seems people on both sides want the chat mechanics and lore revamped, which takes care of the arm inflicting damage of the problem but not the heart of it. The cloaking/stealth/recon side of Eve needs a look at otherwise. It seems really shoddy and linear, with much room for expansion in interesting ways.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.10.31 03:38:00 - [24] Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 31/10/2010 03:42:50 Originally by: Xorv Every time a cloaker jumps through a gate, and every time they attack someone they expose themselves to potentially unwanted/unfavorable PvP circumstances. 1. Jumping through a gate isn't exclusive to cloakers. Everyone jumps through gates. 2. Once a cloaker jumps through a gate he is able to lower his guards to the point where he could go eat pizza while remaining in space and with absolutely NO RISK of being caught. He does not have to be vigilant. He does not have to worry that he is in hostile 0.0 space. He doesn't have to HTFU. He doesn't have to even grow balls. All he has to do is choose targets he knows he can take on and refuse to PVP those that are against his odds. All this while in space and while forcing everyone else to be vigilant. This is called consensual PVP. And absolutely NO ONE can force him to PVP without he first agreeing to it. Originally by: Xorv Removing Local Chat would actually increase the potential for a trap/ambush of the cloaker. AFK cloakers on the other hand aren't interested in PvP consensual or otherwise, in fact they're probably not interested in anything EVE related, because they're "Away From Keyboard". I suppose an engineer is someone who works on engines. And a chairman of the board is someone who arranges chairs in a board. In other words, learn what an AFK cloaker is. That, or stop acting dumb. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Xorv	Posted - 2010.10.31 04:28:00 - [25] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 [stuff] Yes everyone jumps through gates, but cloaked PvPers are usually in hostile space. Sov holding alliances have NAPed to such an extent that their numbers and space is really quite vast, add intel channels calling out any possible hostile that pops up on Local Chat makes jumping through gates for these people not remotely comparable to your would be "AFK cloaker". Yes while cloaked and safe spotted there is no risk. Guess what? Same applies to you and everyone else, you don't even need a Cov-Ops ship. Just fit a cloak safe spot and activate it and you have exactly the same safety as the hostile Cloaker that disturbs you so much. ...and you achieve pretty much the same thing, nothing except undermine what would otherwise be flawless intel and absolute safety provided by Local Chat. Here's the direct counter for you using exactly the same strategy, AFK several of your blob NAP happy friends in the same system. Now when the AFK cloaker is no longer AFK, but instead looking to blow up your ships and steal your loots, they're left guessing how many friends you have ready to pounce should they decide to make an appearance. You've just denied them the flawless intel that Local normally provides. ... See a trend here? The problem is Local Chat... well that and gamers that think they should be able to PvE in completely safety in Null Sec just because they joined one of the biggest zergs on the server.
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2010.10.31 06:22:00 - [26] I have a few points to make in a roundabout kind of way. First - I'd like to see local as a dominion feature. You don't get it unless you've upgraded the system to "x". An alliance's core systems would have it....but there'd be some bushes along the fence people could sneak past so to speak. Second - destroyers are going to need a function. EAF and AF are set to be redone soon. These will intrude on the dessy's very, very narrow niche. There's also a new salvaging ship being created. Their "other" function is going away. Give destroyers some kind of probing system where they can find cloaker ships. It should be much harder then normal probing. A ship w/ a covert ops cloak should get an advantage over a non-covert ship in being difficult to find. And it should be something that if you're "scouting" you could avoid quite easily. You're only going to get caught if you're eating pizza afk. Let the probe module have an active mode that decloaks everything within 25km too.... something to spice up fleet battles and give destroyers a purpose. My two cents.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.10.31 12:56:00 - [27] Originally by: Xorv Yes while cloaked and safe spotted there is no risk. Guess what? Same applies to you and everyone else, you don't even need a Cov-Ops ship. Just fit a cloak safe spot and activate it and you have exactly the same safety as the hostile Cloaker that disturbs you so much. ...and you achieve pretty much the same thing, nothing except undermine what would otherwise be flawless intel and absolute safety provided by Local Chat. So the counter to AFK cloaking is... AFK cloaking . Gotcha. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Bhattran	Posted - 2010.10.31 15:54:00 - [28] Originally by: Covert Kitty Edited by: Covert Kitty on 28/10/2010 09:02:18 Get rid of local. Give the carebares a complementary nightlight, like this one: http://www.amazon.com/Disney-Tinkerbell-Color-Changing-Night/dp/B000WPMDT4 (so they wont be scared of the dark) If it is not "Hello Kitty" it is crap! --Submit your bug reports via mental telepathy this will streamline CCP ignoring them.--
Xorv	Posted - 2010.10.31 19:41:00 - [29] Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 So the counter to AFK cloaking is... AFK cloaking . Gotcha. No, as has been pointed out thousands of times on these forums AFK cloaking is the counter to Local Chat Intel. The point I was making in my last post that seemed to fly right over your head is that AFK cloaking as a counter to Local Chat can also be used by the very people whining about it, denying reliable Local Chat Intel to the Pirates/Raiders that are occupying their system. Thereby, placing doubt in the mind of your would be attacker whether they're about to jump into a fight that's very favorable to them or one that could end up being a trap. However, in your case cloaks aren't even required, unprobable ships would do the same, as would likely players sitting AFK under POS shields.
Dirk Mortice	Posted - 2010.10.31 19:51:00 - [30] Originally by: Allestin Villimar Originally by: Covert Kitty Right, and when he decloaks you can warp off or defend yourself (you were aligned already right?) Ah so it's perfectly ok to force someone else to be on their toes constantly without having to be so yourself. You mean like forcing roaming gangs to be constantly on their toes and one step ahead of the locals, because, with just a little bit of sense (and the use of local) it is 100% impossible to catch a ratter that doesn't want to be caught. Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 0.0 ratters aren't interested in unconsensual PVP to themselves. They only want to be able to warpout as soon as they realise a threat is present FYP



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